these are the images rogue world has been seeing from the streets of canada. trying to corporations rule the day. good afternoon welcome to capital account i'm lauren lyster here in washington d.c. these are headlines for tuesday december eighteenth two thousand and one japanese pension funds are starting to invest in gold for the first time according to the wall street journal they're looking to mitigate the damage of market shocks and reduce the risks associated with currencies the paper says until recently they've invested in mostly domestic stocks and bonds will have more on metals with the gold antitrust action committees bill murphy and chris powell here in studio plus the as the sea has approved a j.p. morgan copper exchange traded fund reportedly the first one it's backed by physical

copper and received the go ahead despite opposition from companies that actually use copper and some lawmakers who opposed it too now the concerns are that it could allow speculators says the market increase prices volatility and undermine price transparency for and dusty all metal will discuss the impact and the newtown school shooting has unleashed tears tragedy and of course through the talk of gun control and gun laws from the weapon use the bushmaster rifle to big business we'll talk about the reaction from wal-mart to wall street let's get to today's capital account.

the price mechanism is something we often talk about on this show and the role central banks around the world play in distorting it whether through central bank there are or q e or through private banks manipulating live or without question markets are manipulated and prices distorted our next guest has been making the case for years that the precious metals markets are no exception you know it's a tough one though because there isn't a smoking gun per se of libel or with gold though we may see the queen of england touring the bank of england vaults as we did just recently and you see there what we don't get to see is transparent disclosure of the gold transactions of central banks in terms of their lease things swapping that sort of thing now that we may know of this d.s.t. season investigation into silver market manipulation it's been ongoing for years still with no results but here to discuss some of the latest developments in precious metals in light of what we do know are bill murphy and chris powell of the

gold antitrust action committee better known as gap time and they are together at the same desk in our studio which is just so exciting thanks so much for being here gentlemen good to be here long great to have you so let's start with today gold and silver moving down not a lot of big news anything to see here. yeah actually it's been part of an an ambush attack by what we call the gold cartel for the past month they've been trading and when asian markets are thinly traded just about three weeks ago they had to call next twenty five dollars an ounce in one minute twenty four out of the last twenty six days and with access market comix pretty open they've taken the market down they slammed and today with the euro making seven month highs all of a sudden gold collapsed twenty five thirty dollars for no reason whatsoever the stock market was fun other commodity markets were fine it is ludicrous what they're doing what they're doing meaning what i mean based on they are animal spirits

behind markets are hard to discern so how do we know what's going on when day or another when it comes to gold and silver well if i might say markets just don't trade like this for no reason with four times within a month it's the consistency of what they're doing and that is so egregious it's blatant no one else can really explain why gold is going through these sudden waterfall drops and it's them and it's a reason for it i think it's because this physical cliff nonsense is going to end pretty soon and when the dust clears nothing's going to be really done about our growing deficit our debts and so on so i want to take gold off the radar screen as much as possible as we go to barometer of u.s. financial market health and in your view clarify for our viewers who aren't familiar with gatto what you mean when you say gold cartel. well it's going to take a stab pressed. the major investment houses of the bullion banks that are backstopped. of the world from central banks that are basically their masters in the gold market they know they can trade in the gold market. as long as they're

doing what the central banks want them to and if they ever run short of gold the central banks are there to provide it if this is the case why is this anything to write home about i mean we hear about manipulation by high frequency traders using quote stuffing to make an extra buck we have central banks manipulating interest rates globally which our. so loosely impacts markets we have banks private banks across the world that were manipulating libel or which obviously is a scandal but we see this so many different places why is this an area that you guys have focused so much of your attention on and are really concerned about you've made it your mission it's because it's the destruction of markets and it's the manipulation of the value of all capital labor and goods and services in the world what they are doing is is really to seize control of of everything economic in the world and really leave behind people's backs it's essentially tyrannical system that's what we're trying to expose and you think that the precious metals is

the key to that because why because the central banks themselves say so there was a an academic paper written about thirty years ago by lawrence summers who was then a professor of economics at harvard and robert byrd a professor of economics at the university of michigan explaining the relationship the traditional historic relationship between the gold price and interest rates basically they found that the gold is a determinant of interest rates it's the determinant of the price of government bonds that's what the gold price suppression scheme really is about it's a it's a it's a mechanism of supporting government currencies of suppressing interest rates and supporting government bond prices and a little bit later i want to get into some more kind of the best facts or circumstantial evidence that exists that support that view first i want to talk a little bit though about silver because silver market manipulation is something that has been it's been being and but it's been investigated by that sea f.t.c.

it's still ongoing since i had both of you gentlemen on my show last week have interviewed bart chilton the commissioner of the c.f. if you kind of think of when you think of this silver investigation he stands by his belief that said that something that the law was broken and the silver market has been manipulated let's take a listen. certainly there were to farias actions and i believe violations of the law mean when people send you e-mails and say the price of silver is going to be smashed one day and then the next day it actually happens and when that happens repeatedly or maybe six you know eight or nine times. that leads you to question what's going on. why do you think we haven't seen more progress and this investigation and do you think we will ever see this investigation have a result it's a government operation or in the sea if he so you cannot interfere with that i think they figured it out and this investigation will probably be unresolved until

the end of time or until the silver price breaks out nobody cares anymore based on what that when you say it's a government operation chris what is your best. and i mean i don't want to say smoking gun because i know that this is impossible to kind of calculate but but what is your best argument you can you can go back to the coinage act in the united states that was signed by president johnson in one thousand nine hundred eighty five when he signed the coinage act removing silver from united states coinage he explicitly warned investors not to invest in silver because the united states the president would disordered from its strategic silver stockpile as necessary to keep the price of silver down now sensually silver price suppression has been the united states government policy since that signing statement in one nine hundred sixty five i believe you can find that signing statement still at the presidential archives at the internet site of the university of california at santa barbara this is public policy silver is a currency it is more of

a currency in history even than gold as the united states government has a very distinct interest in the value of potentially competitive currencies ability you want to add something that looks like you are trying to go in there parts a great guy but he's won against four in the in the come out if you choose trading commission he's done his best to try to get this issue exposed but he's got a lot of people that are against it j.p. morgan is that the bank as chris said it's a government operation we know that there has been strong evidence presented against j.p. morgan and vetted by lawyers and bart knows just what it is but that they don't know what to do because if they end the investigation because yes it's a government operation.

the problem for them so they're in a dilemma you have to remember lauren the united states is specifically authorized by the gold reserve act of one thousand nine hundred four to run what's called the exchange stabilization fund in the treasury department of the gold reserve act as amended allows the exchange stabilization fund to trade secretly in not only the gold market but in any market without any accountability to any other officer the government some to the exclusive control the president the treasury secretary nobody goes to the treasury department every day and says could you tell me if the u.s. was active directly or indirectly in the markets today but the law says you can look it up it's on the treasury department's internet site the law authorizes the united states exchange stabilization fund to trade secretly in the gold market and any other market that the treasury secretary secretary decides he wants to get into but because we don't know exactly what's going on and because we don't know exactly

what central banks are doing with their gold in terms of leasing and whatnot because it's all on one line item from what i understand the way they account for it there is a resistance to this discussion and i want to skype a couple questions guys in the control room to go to the sound bite i have a little further down from bloomberg where eric sprott a gentleman who i think you guys know because he cites your work we've had him on our show here he is on bloomberg talking about some recent work he had done in this area was take a listen. i wrote an article recently. questioning whether the western central banks had any gold left and we simply did is it will analyse the people that are coming into the bull market changes that have happened since two thousand you know as well as i know that this is part of the legend and the lore the gold business the gold bug business which is a distinct business from gold. you know a little bit to a degree it smacks of a little bit of conspiracy theory so i think you know so what else do you have to

make people excited about last sunday just wait us ok i know your act but tell us why this is an important conversation to have despite the fact that we may not have . when we may only have. actually we do have a lot of proof in the last week got it disclosed what's probably our best proof yet this is a report to the executive board of the international monetary fund dated in march one thousand nine hundred nine in which the staff of the i.m.f. explained that it was trying to develop new rules for reporting for central banks that would strengthen accountability the staff proposed requiring central banks to specify their gold swaps and gold loans so if you read the report you'll find that the staff surveyed the west and central banks and found that they freaked out when they saw that the i.m.f. was proposing to make them disclose their swaps and loans this information the

central banks surveyed by the i.m.f. said it was extremely market sensitive and disclosure of it would interfere with central bank secret interventions in the currency markets this is a report it says not for public use obviously we discovered it a week ago it's posted on our internet site is it is a confession it is a survey of all western central banks saying you can't make us disclose our swaps and loans that will expose. and you know there's more from this too i want to get into after the break we're going to take a quick one we'll come back we'll talk more about these i.m.f. documents and have more with both of these gentlemen behind also still ahead more with the gentle men of data and instagram issues what some call its suicide note find out how the photo sharing site might have to literally sold out in today's loose change but first your closing market numbers.

you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else hears you some other part of it and realize that everything you. are welcome is a big. the

worst you're going to think. why don't you have a. radio guy and. what. if you've never seen anything like this. ok before the break we were talking about gold silver evidence of manipulation in these markets and it's all with chris paul and bill murphy a gadda who have made this their work and interestingly when we talk about the

issue of conspiracies we do have some actual conspiracies that have come out in finance for example the libel rigging there's a headline the library see where the bank of england and whitehall in on it because of conversations and emails went back and forth that made it look like maybe there was some agreement that there should be going on during the financial crisis between officials at central banks and the banks that were doing this or the people that were doing this but nonetheless we definitely. actually just sixteen when the long. and so now that we've had another settlement we just saw u.b.s. settle over live or and possibly will see arrests and dozens are evidently indicted in terms of the settlement or that it's only been like so far it's not out at all

well we'll see charges but a number of people involved so i just thought this was worth bringing up because actually bill you were talking about before the show how a number of these conspiracies have actually gone on and come out of the way more things are done than not and this is the reason the mainstream in the big powers namely marginalized people that discover conspiracies like this like libel or like the you know the gold price suppression scheme because that's how they do their business so they try to mock people that bring this out i mean you don't even have to be in the financial world i look at lance armstrong and his scandal with cycling this is just one guy who with his teammates and doctors and people kept going for seven years and of course the evidence against what the guy did is great as he's done work on cancer and stuff i mean he was arrogant about it he said it wasn't the case well there was a conspiracy and actually that's pretty common. i want to get more into actual gold and what we know about central banks called holdings recently we've seen more gold

we the bank of england we've seen we've seen the queen there they let this this professor and let's play a little to show our audience i've never seen so much. in so much of any elements so we're standing here and. a ton of. which is worth thirty five million. sure it's worth a lot but that they were central banks is we don't know how much of that is leased out on loan or there is caracas and not only that and the queen met with the british cabinet today though apparently the first british monarch to meet with her cabinet for some seventy one and the videographer caught her exchange with the chancellor of the exchequer she remarks to. george osborne that you know she saw the gold at the bank of england the other day she adds regrettably not all the bars are ours. and i was warmly plies well you know we still have some of that

is the key question to whom does this gold belong how many competing claims are there to this gold we know the bank of england has been in the gold leasing business we know the bank for the national settlements is in the gold sales swaps leasing business you talk about conspiracies lauren when the when the board of the bank for international settlements which represents all the western central banks holds its monthly meeting they don't call you and say we're having a meeting would you like to attend when the g ten gold and foreign exchange committee meets so committee of representatives of the treasuries of all the major western countries when they meet they don't post a notice they don't say would you like to attend conspiracies by definition these are secret meetings of of government people in a national government people where they may take action bearing on the gold market in the world economy now why is it so strange to call this a conspiracy when they themselves insist on the secrecy well because i mean it's

fair but a lot goes on behind closed doors we don't know what the fat is you know doing necessarily that back on the scene minutes later and often times it's in fed's speak anyway so you are really exactly know it's going on but what do we know i guess for our audience members who may not know the role of leasing and the role of of lending on the part of central banks what role does. play it impacting the price and getting the price where it was alan greenspan testified to congress in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight central banks stand ready to lead an increase in quantities should the price rise gold leasing is not what central banks sometimes pretend it is a way for them to make a little money on what they call the debt asset it is a mechanism of market control it's a mechanism of defeating a potentially competitive currency it's a mechanism of suppressing interest rates it's a mechanism of supporting government bond prices that is historic record larry

summers who went from harvard to become treasury secretary the united states wrote a paper about this it's on iran and it's not what do we know as far as to what extent i know we don't know from central banks accounting how much are you saying what not that they have done or are doing but there is another i.m.f. document from ninety nine that you also your researchers found that does talk about it right well this is interesting because this is how i got this started back in one thousand nine hundred nine when this report was written and they said then discovered we said the gold loans were far bigger than the establishment said they were we said they were in my frank bender also my old friend and colleague said they could be as high as eight thousand times the establishment left as they said it was all wrong this report alone in one thousand nine hundred nine written said that fifteen percent of the supposedly thirty two thousand tons was leased out or gone had already been sent and sold in the physical marketplace. bush that was of course when you tell me about it they don't even respond they just

go silent and i want to read we do have a full screen of the we do have a passage a full screen of the part of the past about more disclosure of gold and it says central bank officials indicated that they considered information on loans and swaps to be highly market sensitive in view of the limited number of participants in such transactions does they consider that the as d.d. asked which is the disclosure reserve template should not require the separate disclosure of such information but should instead treat all monetary gold assets including gold on loan or subject to swap agreements as a single data item and that's really what you're talking about. exactly how they are meddling in the gold market because they are meddling in the gold market all the time as part of their general scheme of market intervention to support currencies support government bonds and suppress interest rates and gentlemen forgive me why should we care about an i.m.f. paper or two that came out and that was from one nine hundred ninety nine because

you can you can go to the central banks now lauren and ask them hey is this true why can't we see your swaps in your leases what are you doing in the gold market a freelance writer in germany large shawl has been putting these questions. in the last few months and of course she pretty much gets the door slammed in his face this is the whole ballgame they can't talk about it all you have to do is ask them specific questions in the scheme falls apart and quickly before we go guys i do have to ask about j.p. morgan's copper e.t.f. j.p. morgan of course is purported to be the manipulator of silver obviously not confirmed they haven't been convicted or anything as so many believe because of their enormous short positions but masters has defended should we be concerned about the impact of a j.p. morgan copper e.t.f. on that market oh absolutely. potentially. a stranglehold in the commodities world the j.p. morgan the big agent of the united states. will have

a big agent of the us government sure primary dealer and us government security private communications with the treasury and with food every day that we're not privy to they are an agent of the united states government thanks jamie diamond said that he did the fed a favor a way his bank acquired bear stearns back in the crisis so there's lots of their favorite going around that's for sure we'll see what he has to say when silver is on its way to one hundred dollars an ounce and they're all choking you will see maybe you'll do your end zone dance maybe we'll see that yet again all of our feet thanks so much you guys for being on the show you want to be here.

ok let's wrap up with loose change and dimitri you know we haven't covered the newtown tragedy the shooting at the elementary school which is horrible and in the wake of it we have seen a number of discussions about gun control gun laws if they should change what should change to avoid something like this happening again and also respecting the constitutional rights of americans have to bear arms here or a smattering of headlines but we're interested in talking about the business angle because we're seeing reaction from wall street to wal-mart so demitri kerber. breasts those kerberos made it awful no arrests no it's purpose capital. it's a private equity firm anyway they announced that they would sell their stake in freedom group which owns shares in bushmaster which is the maker of the rifle that was reportedly used in this shooting the company released a statement saying our role is to make investments on behalf of our clients who are comprised of the pension plans of firemen teachers policemen other miscible workers unions endowments other institutions and individuals it's not our role to take

positions or attempt to shape or influence the gun control policy debate that's the job of federal state legislators there are however actions that we can take as a firm. obviously selling their stake as one of a wal-mart also decided to pull sales of bushmaster rifles from their website from online dick's sporting goods announced that out of respect for the victims they remove guns from sale near newtown. let's step back what do you what do you make of these announcements. when you think about the specific pull in the guns off on em. this is always like there's a political issue mark my eye this always happens every time there's a shooting i don't think the real problem we have is that people have guns obviously i don't think it makes any sense whatsoever to have assault rifles i mean why don't know why you need those things then i'm off making a judgment on whether there's we should have be allowed to have guns or not but i largely point is i think it's pretty obvious that this is id as a whole is not very mature in their lust for weapons. duction and murder

but i think that a lot of there's a huge problem in this country with guns when it's interesting to where it trickles into because while one private equity group equity group is selling their stake idea book did an article about a number of others that are invested in gun makers i mean this is a business opportunity for people in general you know what kind of a culture is it where you can just go through wal-mart and buy a gun you know what i am or dick's sporting goods i mean dr shows the extent to which it is normal i don't say it's incredibly hypocritical in this country because the state has a monopoly on violence and i exercise it with such reckless abandonment and we have drones flying overhead so i think it's a crapshoot every way every which way i don't think the government's very responsible mature with weapons either like we did it's a giant kill zone yeah one way or the other so i just think that you know it's whenever the shootings happen that it enters the major a judge would be the obsession with violence and blood lust should be covered in

totality of this guy in a way that serious about what that obsession means more than when it's just at a tragic time we're going to have to leave it that we didn't get to instagram but go check out what they're doing because your image is not proprietary and that's all we have time for thank you so much for watching the show to come back tomorrow in the meantime you know you can follow me on twitter like our facebook page watch us on you tube hulu and have a great night. you

know how sometimes you see a story and it seems so for lengthly you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you don't know i'm tom harvey welcome to the big picture. please.