cream core did roll as roger said the second amendment talks about having a well regulated militia this was written in the eighteenth century this doesn't apply to the average american carrying assault weapons that are even more that deserve to be in the military not in our streets so that's not a legitimate argument at all and i'm not attacking n.r.a. members as the vast majority of n.r.a. members support restrictions on gun ownership ok so your leadership of this is going to say i already scott is already calling into question the supreme court's reading of the second amendment i think the supreme court got it right but the issue here is that we live in a world of risk we will always have to deal with this problem and the only question is which measures are going to be effective and which are not we have had gun control restrictions there may be room for improving some of those and i stand for that but the idea that we're going to address this problem without addressing the

fundamental issue namely how can we more effectively do this prank tickly and i stand for the idea that the best defense against an unstable person with a gun is to have a gun in the hands of a stable person who can take that person ok so all right if we're going to arrange you know news we're going to raise you in paris she hasn't said a word on the program yet rachel jump in. you know it appears that there's some ignorance here with respect to self defense technology that currently exists i walk around here in paris and i and i have a very very sane high tech very effective method of self defense and here it is right here and this is a. device that allows me to deploy a capsaicin gel at a distance of about thirteen feet with airbag technology at one hundred eighty kilometers an hour with a diameter of about two feet and if so if i want to incapacitate somebody who is

threatening me in any in any way this would do the trick and it's thirty nine year olds and you can buy it you know it's it's legal you can walk into a store that sells these and here in france and buy them and it's made in switzerland and this is i would argue just as effective as a gun and the benefit is that when you pull this out on somebody who happens to have a gun they're not going to see it as a gun the first question is going to be in their mind is going to be what is that and before they can figure it out you will deploy that and you can and without killing them so i think you know to say that a gun is really the most effective means of taking down somebody who's threatening you imminently is ignorant of the technology that currently is you know it doesn't necessarily result in killing somebody said recently regular just shooting night but that's illegal in many jurisdictions in the united states and the sole weapon is no it's not actually in most this is innocent weapon and in fact it's not because i looked it up before i came here and guess what it's not even illegal in

france it is however in the u.k. but in france it's not in germany it's not and in most jurisdictions in the united states it is not illegal and it's highly effective and it has airbag technology to prize a hundred and eighty kilometers an hour oh just over one hundred ten miles an hour gel in their face capsaicin spray that's not spray actually it's a good. idea is that guns are the only solution is ignorant scott go ahead and this is to this is to six overwhelmingly show that if you. it's a gun to your home you're more likely to have a gun used against you have a member of family as in the case and newtown the guns belong to the mother and the son brutally killed his mother and twenty six other people so that having guns makes you less safe and the problem is we this insanity frankly saying we need to arm people to arm first graders arm principals have concealed carry on college campuses i live in san francisco now but any urban city in america get magine if everyone is armed on a subway going to work i mean to be carted left and right it's insanity we need to

have less guns i don't think and as far as the second amendment goes let me just specify that yes they have held the right to bear arms but even justice scalia's said that doesn't mean you can have any arms isn't give you the right to have assault weapons and these other military style weapons so the court did not rule on the side of having whatever weapons you want ok roger if you want to reply to that go ahead. blood over sure that that's what the court did rule with respect to what rachel said are you agree entirely this is a perfectly effective at least in many cases a perfectly affective way to go about it and i would support that but there are some jurisdictions in the united states where that use illegal ok but you can have a gun but you cannot again want to censor it's amazing it's very it's amazing ok rachel go ahead i will say this is the issue that this is the issue that i have and i wrote about this this particular subject this week for my column with the tribune

newspapers across the u.s. and that is that the main cultural difference between a country like the united states and for example canada has less gun crime but guns are still legal is that there is there are a battery of tests that are executed whenever somebody applies to own use or store a firearm in canada any kind of firearm whether it be a long gun or or a handgun and that's what i would suggest that maybe needs to be implemented in the united states i don't really have a problem with much of a problem with people owning guns if they can prove that they've taken a licensing course they know how to handle it they their safety oriented with it they're educated about it and there's been a thorough background check including interviews of ex-partners partners in the last few years to find out if they've ever had any kind of treatment by doctors for depression for mental illness for behavioral issues because in canada the police actually execute a thorough background check that includes things like that and and nobody really

complains about the fact that there's a lack of freedom in terms of being able to possess a gun in canada so perhaps that's a solution perhaps just making sure that that there's a minimum threshold so that the person who the people who are who are allowed to own guns in the united states are indeed proven sane and the onus isn't the reverse because the way it works right now is you have to literally prove yourself to be insane in order to have a gun and to not get a gun. sure the other way around i would argue and that seems to work pretty well in canada so would that be an issue there would that be so one of the gentlemen that you have are we have we have a we have background checks that are required in all let me finish that are required in all but the gun show context and i would be in favor of requiring them in the gun show context too but they are not foolproof you can have people who do have mental problems who have not been adjudicated as such and you're going to have people who are going to slip through that and that's what we have to face up to and

besides that there are some civil liberties issues with respect to this and we have to consider those as well scott you want to say something about background checks that i don't think we have any as i think this is a civil liberties issue at all no it has first of all we do have background checks but they're not well in force and as roger did say i was glad to hear the plans call their gun show enough people there and a large percentage of guns are procured that way and you know it's much harder to get a driver's license or or if you close on a house or an apartment it takes weeks and months and this should be a lengthy waiting period this should be extensive background checks but in the end you can tell if somebody is mentally ill or not it's very hard to prove that and the thing is we need to take immediately as a center all these military assault weapons out of the hands of everybody they should be banned to reinstate the banned more strictly or before and you know roger you say well it doesn't really help well that's not true in australia for example they had horrific shooting that years ago thirty eight people were massacred they

instituted some of the toughest gun laws in the world and that situation changed in japan they have very strict gun laws they have hardly any gun by the america of the twenty three wealthiest nations eighty percent of gun violence happens in america now roger does that acceptable in a civilised society to accept that we have to say no to that and we have to limit gun ownership as much as possible right you do want to reply to that before we go to the break so interesting. it's interesting to chose the australian example because time magazine had a lengthy story about that in two thousand and eight that showed that the numbers did not change at all in australia well other sources say it dropped forty percent of other sources that it dropped out and i jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that sharp break we'll continue our discussion on guns in america stay with are. a recently.

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we. welcome back to cross talk on peter lavelle remind you we're talking about gun control in america. right if i go back to you in washington why do americans need assault weapons military assault weapons because the only thing they do is commit atrocities it seems like what are assault weapons when the weapon that was used in connecticut. well that's a circular argument what's an assault weapon define it well it has a lot of ammunition to be able to kill a lot of people those kind of guns or that's a different thing that's a magazine well you do same as why don't people need them in america other than commit atrocities why do we need what they why do they go on the assailant tag on

guns and deploy a lot of bullets in a fury that i experience will i need to take would take out that many rounds of that amount of time that's not why that's not the definition of a just the assault weapon is a emotionally charged description that would fit any number of well what you're whining going on this is and i guess it isn't just about values you're only talking about on hey what about that one specific what you're talking about what you're talking about is a large volume magazine now the proposal is afoot to reduce magazines to holding only ten roam do you support that the problem with that pardon do you support that in my in mind favor of that yes are you in favor or no because it is because you delude yourself all you need to do then is have three magazines which take about three seconds to replace and you've

got your thirty round magazine i mean this is the kind of ignorance about the nature of guns that we hear from the gun control folks ok scott how do you feel about that i mean there's no it means there roger yeah if you take a little extra time you know it's save lives it's hard to reload it gives people a chance to escape but the point is as you pose a question peter a says they answer is no no no reason why it's very seconds whatever it is. any time and yet look the pro point is there is no you reason there is no resume here in america anybody a citizen to own an assault weapon rachel go ahead. look i agree and you can't plug a magazine like that into a shotgun so you can say that it's only the magazines it's not the guys because they have to make the guns to suit the magazine so obviously there are guns that allow for that kind of thing to happen so what's the what's the point of having one if it's not to kill people what's i don't understand that either and i think peter

has a good question and what let's all ideas you're not here i'm serving in the military and what's the whole a point of those guns that allow for those men to whom rachel what what what would what kind of gun would you low people to buy what kind of gun would i allow people to buy oh that's a really broad question sane people crazy people but i mean no i look you know i personally i really don't know why rick is a lawyer out of the me personally what kind of gun yes what what kind of gun would i allow and i will see this is a problem is when i if i was to answer a question like this and to cause mass panic in america by saying i want to ban guns the first think everyone in the u.s. would do and they've proven this in the wake of the shooting when people start talking about going to all is run out and buy guns so this is the dilemma we've we're in right now and that america's in is if if politicians started talking about more gun control and banning things in

a really aggressive way people just go out and arm up because they're afraid that their guns are going to be taken away you know started you know it's a family thing to do establishing that it would start right roger go ahead you know well you never did by saying that you i would i don't think people who know how this all ends in their homes right well ok job wise i don't know why but i don't think you should have a cell right tools in the home and i'm you know because let me tell you i don't think people should have assault rifles in their home and if drunk ever became available on the commercial market i don't think people should have drones in their home either i mean at what point do we draw the line a listen i shot a gun to defend your prada shirt on you because i've been fired as an issue and i'm asking you because you carry a shotgun you say i shot a human on a lot of people model of it everybody could see it. i remember larry so many of your kind in your home if that's what they choose in the end they've gone through the right checks to get that shotgun sure can can you call ok for going to come on you guys who is going san francisco jump in go ahead what kind of gun should people

yes i would say i'm. well i think look i mean in a perfect world we wouldn't have guys obviously hunters who by the way i don't i think we spend too much time worrying about the rights of hunters they were have the edge over the deer they're armed the deer are and so on that we have to worry about that and let it have their shotgun i think we should ban all semi we should ban all semiautomatic and automatic weapons that would be either the you know any any gun that you can use to shoot rapid fire i think a civilian does not need if somebody wants to have a rifle in their house again i think it would. cause more harm than good if they want to have that you know they could have that but they kind of semiautomatic automatic weapon has no place in our society doll this is interesting because now we're starting to narrow this no this is very interesting because we have had rachel unable to describe what kind of going she would weave how it's going to say i don't run out and i'm going just i actually set a shock you know shotgun i said you know and it's but you know why even i always

what excuse me excuse me can i just say something can i finish please can i please there's no you i have no you're going to you're going to hear only what i just i know just hear me it isn't good sir excuse me excuse me no hang on you actually misheard me so obviously we're listening so i'd like to repeat what i said so it's clear before we continue on the argument that's false i said a shotgun in people's homes if they chose to would be great if that's indeed what they want if they pass the right psychological test intelligence has an emotional quotient test to determine if there's sane enough to keep it and they know how to they know how to use it in that kind of thing find shotgun fine but however they have to also balance that with the fact that if somebody comes then if somebody breaks into their home and sees me as somebody breaks into their home and they go to pull that shotgun on the perpetrator a that person's already a criminal so they've proven by virtue of the fact they're breaking into your house in the first place that they have the psychological profile to do something crazy that perhaps you don't by pulling the trigger first secondly they have the advantage of foresight they come into your house they've planned it all they assume

you might have a gun you're going to be going to your gun vault. tried to get out you're going to be rifling around no pun intended looking for your socket so i don't know to what extent it's just a security blanket and to what extent it's really effective ok roger i would just like rowing to be fair and through go ahead roger are you through rachel go ahead roger through the floor yeah ok go ahead thank you hadn't so rachel would allow shotguns whereas scott it seems would allow guns that are not automatic semi automatic but where you have to probably pull the bolt every time you fill the chamber the problem there is that you have reduced substantially the right to self-defense if you are under attack on a city street by multiple assailants you're going to want a gun that will serve the purpose or you could be walking down the road i saw it all drive like you have this is really the chamber where we walk down the street just america with an assault rifle really just have to die i've got i'm telling you

what i've seen as you trick i'm and all right in front of my face right now we've got rain go ahead roger peter peter i'm going to end this thing. ok you want to run this thing and you've already got it two to one now if i give you as much time as law i'm all right it's no point in my trying to give you as much time as i will go ahead good well then then do that let's have some discipline on the other side all right the pistol with a ten chamber magazine is the kind of weapon that you would need in solve defense if you are in a urban area that requires you to defend yourself yet that's the kind of thing you would not i rather guess apparently this would not allow people to won't scott go ahead. from well i live in new york city i want to see it so it's i will tell you that if everybody was armed with pistols that could shoot ten rounds it would be carnage every day left and right it's an insane impractical to isolate really

a look live for attaching people to more armed we are the less safe when can you cite an example of some civilians walking on the subway they pull up their arms and gunned down attackers it just doesn't happen and it makes them less safe because rachel alluded to if your arm you're going to worry her as you heard in this wordly is an officer of twenty's a weapon for time roger you know you most in most states in most states today we have concealed carry possible and it turns out there is almost no crime committed by those people who have concealed carry permits in fact we have evidence on number of cases in which they have stopped carnage ok and that's the point no we don't want to bring very rare incidents ok rachel go ahead now you have to break down the statistics on that because they actually don't count as homicides gun gun incidents that where i got happens to go off accidentally and shoot somebody in the

face which happens all the time but they're not counted in the statistics because it's not an intentional crime it's not a homicide it's not you know it's an accidental shooting and that kind of thing are counted quite differently in the statistics so we don't really have a good feel of that but it happens all the time so i mean the idea is here that people are running around going to flee carrying guns packing heat walking walking around the city is is is i think isn't exactly completely turn just last week in oregon and there are many who are going to be in a mall and a mall and a person with a concealed carry permit trained his gun on the shooter the shooters saw that and shot himself and that was the end of it two people died not twenty. ok scott just last month you know i've got a device in in my hand right here that would have done the same thing this device i have in my hand right here is legal i know i don't lethal from up there was a far away thing from how far away from from from thirteen feet away

ok i had it and well maybe you one hundred eighty kilometers an hour. roger what kind of gun control do you support really easy to shoot almost a mile here and it's almost i already roger kind of got the right kind of gun sort of court but i'll tell you what kind i support i support for background checks for the gun gun show and i support a broad. right to concealed carry once you've gone through the training and the background checks because that is the only way you're going to reduce not and you cannot in these kinds of situations but you can reduce them if that teacher who lunge that principal lunged at the shooter last week in newtown had been able to take him out a lot of those kids would be alive today ok we've run out of time here

unfortunately the surgery you're going to revisit our many faces a time i guess in washington san francisco and in paris and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk rules. recently. i took. a. wealthy british style sign some time to write the first.

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tend to feel death will create the super got the stuff. after the second coming it will be a beautiful place it will receive its glory it will be a renewed world and it will be a beautiful place. full of professed. little stuff just ammunition. it's good business for us it's kind of like being a doctor you know if there's a disaster businesses. better unfortunately.

i.