racial if you're entering university or sending your kids to school we will talk to mr lu who is the creator of the founder of one of the most prestigious ranking systems in the world the so-called shanghai rating. university rankings have become extremely popular and it's not only a matter of public image in roman trays and tuition the classifications us objective to a certain extent but every issue of and the rating system raises concerns and out usually among those who did not make it to the top the originator of the shanghai university ranking dr luke believes ratings will only gain importance as the main issue is how to make it more universal and accurate. mr liu welcome to the show thank you very much for being with us and i would like

to to start with a question about this ranking system your institution published another academic ranking a world university a.r.w. comely known as the shanghai ranking where there are quite a number of ranking systems in the world what was the necessity to create another one why did you decide to do it oh actually. our ranking democrat in the west there was the first global university ranking we are not currently a member while we were the first. explain to waive the purpose of the ranking was for. positioning cheney's universities among them where the higher education systems so. well first is there anything special about the shanghai right ranking well i would just say oh it's. was a couple things first of all we trust the methodology ranking methodology is

transparent it's on the web so there we went where if by. performance we use any object you indicate his and third party data. that's the most important thing and this makes it different from other atheists and there's the most of the other is the use so-called reputation survey. to you cannot wear. yourself but the results of the survey. well your if i'm not mistaken the shanghai ranking is backed by the chinese government does it does it create any special special obligations for you know the ranking is not supported by the government no that no no it's not supported by the university of there is. interest of mine team as a professor so it's a private thing. yes what do you mean where produce. nothing

at all fishel men who prefer it i mean who want to pay it nobody because our ranking will of course my team myself and my colleagues are employed by the university the university paying the salary for us. for doing the teaching research in general but not for the ranking but the ranking itself doesn't require any additional funding and it's no editing of money at all what they're asking so you might do it for free. for fun yeah. initially it was for as i mentioned the possessing the off with the university's tennis university there are bodies in trees or so we just do it for fun listen who is the target audience for your ranking you mean it for who for prospective students for students for the academic year for scientists and for professors our ranking well again the purpose of our ranking initially was. positioning of my universe now that other top ten is

universities. for that purpose is actually mainly target. mainly for universities and the governments not mainly for students but of course students parents though look at the rankings but last night of our initial per person. and can you talk about the popularity of this making system among who is it is a for for example students who before entering the university papers were or is a professor wants to get a job does he pay attention. again most. of our ranking is mostly used to buy universities and governments if less a for example the university looking for collaboration a strategic partnership with other universities they would look at the ranking for

recruiting professors new ph d.'s they would look at the ranking so it's more like . reliable in a sense what are the criteria from your point of view of excellent higher education nowadays is the best it well i mean the best university is the university that prepares the best students the best graduates were the university the the best research what i mean is a science or teaching. me both. education or training after alland still needs to graduate is the fundamental missing of the university so best to it without that you don't need a university. but to come complete globally you don't need to research this is a bad idea of. a university so you know both are important for research universities

but when you when you pull rank the universe in yes so you try to take both into consideration the teaching process there you cation process the scientific research everything is here to record a yes but it's difficult to. find data for. comparable data her for educating in the culture of education for determining it's very difficult why it was that it was difficult to to to evaluate a noise either mr know that while ago i mean there's data on the national basis maybe irrationally in the us there's a lot. reliable data in some other countries awful but not globally but what i can propose such a thing for example i know that russian students when they enter a university they have sort of a. ranking for themselves the number of months a graduate looks for a job after graduating that's

a good thing i mean i mean it is good if you get if minds work within the month this is good but if you look for a job for would a year this is this is not the lawyer it is important to have this kind of data for all rushing. you know it exists among students i mean they know they somehow i don't know that this kind of data is available for us universities. but not globally. well if we talk about the past for a couple of decades has the criteria for evaluating the various states has it changed over the years. well talking about of the ranking we were there our ranking was of the first mow team take in the global ranking before they tell you how for many years you have either program or rankings like an m.b.a. program by the financial times so well since there were inking because each wrecking has its own methodology. evaluating different aspects of

a university so it depends on the. what matters is that the really the quality of education the quality of research may be a plus service or a transfer and so it is in today's world do you feel that the demand for higher education is changing in growing or. the other way around i mean how can you evaluate that and i are the universities flexible enough to react to this change that's difficult across yes of the need is changing for example at least you can. see you now need to train. educating our students to be less sometimes called global citizen more internationalize a seeing things you should be educating quite often if you work for. international

company you're made to mow country for two other countries you need different language skills so there's a globalization internationalization hard to casey's. main change in the last ten twenty years well i know that the chinese students are one of the. biggest army of the global studios around the world you can find chinese students and many of them prefer the united states actually the u.s. dominates most. university rankings and the shanghai ranking isn't an explosion american universities have fifty three percent shootings in the top hundred according to you so does that mean that the american education is really the best and why is it so good. to talk to president american education is the best in the world i actually agree they are the best. hard

p.c. in the weren't class very complex well. because it's a system of no system. because for us of those know what this mean is ministry of education and federal minister casey does not control the resources it's not a very powerful state. controls of higher education so you have a has its own system process why because no support for governments private a lot of research funding. for a university or or seen. basically it's sometimes a little misleading information but pro-rate universities in the us are the best in the world but actually they're by to has a lot of. funding from the federal government which is the

research money class some. student. loan. so it's a good system of no system says to prefer souly with a creator of the so-called shadow right spotlight we'll be back after we take a break so stay with us and. with. science technology innovation all the latest developments from around russia we've got the future covered. the government no longer represents the people and

the people are going to take the term. we. may not be a militia in the traditional but in the in the money. the way our economic system currently runs he's not going to. come up with. one. cause. i. i. know in the borders and beyond the courts

eleven years on guantanamo remains open for business and party looks at the interrogation nerve center of america's war on terror.

welcome back to spotlight i'm al gore in love and just a reminder that my guest on the show today is professor neon syleena you the founder of the shanghai right ranking one of the most influential university ranking systems in the world we're talking about i read occasion of course we started talking about american education and you mentioned you mentioned the money they get from the government the support the support of the funding they get from the government but there is an opinion among the experts that write about world education that one of the one of the best things about the system in america which of course is the without any system we have is that it's crucial they know how to make money and this makes it well makes it so good you just mentioned that it's the government funding says so so what's more important government support or business

in education. well both the government funding and. dominance for the prayer with you know a very important fossil for some public papar brick research in your service this. last quarter about the idea of business. if you talk about the for profit you know where is the industries where you feel you are if you still a small number. of them are research universities so the top research universe. highly ranked the global universities. for profit. i have heard from my friends from from the kids of my friends who study abroad that today the situation in most of the top universities including the american universities is that most of the foreign students are chinese and all the best students are chinese that actually there are three nationalities who really go to

school and who really are good the chinese the indians and the russians can you explain that. i don't know and no idea about why nationalities are smarter no one else was in the way i mean. it's not the matter of being smart at the matter of being the most attentive the most willing to to to educate themselves i mean why for chinese i can see chinese. very good a tradition of. education and maybe a casing paris willing to pay a lot of. half of their income for the education of a german so there's the tradition of twenties from the years ago so. we're going to have a student to turn to and just following that tradition and then i can say i can say

we're wired this is the situation for oceans because the russian kids they really know that the a good education will pay back when they come back to the country if they really if they don't spend these years but they really get a good education good position it will pay back i mean it really will make them going yes the same for trainee same for the churning year. so far russia can only dream of topping the international academic ranking system spotlight. try to find out what's being done to make the dream come true. international student exchange has always been important to the moscow state university every year it sends about a thousand students to courses abroad some of them will achieve a double diploma at the end of their studies. double diploma means you started in two universities in two different countries in europe occasions acknowledged in

both of these countries it means more opportunities for those who received it could mean when you're still in this double diploma might well become irrelevant as for the past ten. yes russia has been part of the so-called moving a process has been trying to make its educational system compatible with the western one and its diplomas acceptable everywhere in the world it also means students will have a choice of where they want to study it was born in the us a science. can boast the global educational experience and is able to compare systems in there is part of the world. says system system is very individual you pick your courses you pick your glasses as far as joining goes. as more traditional. system or because this war. close to my heart. responding to view is not supported by the major international

university ratings at the moment even top universities are outsiders in most of them the boehner process is that to change the situation and it's an attempt to integrate the country into the global education system the critics of the reform however say that's going to slow it others are skeptical about trying to catch up with the west when most consider it's only natural for russia as part of the modern globalized world to try and put it higher education more in line with the rest of the world. the reason why a lot of russians parts of chinese are countries with a good tradition go to the united states remains that there is really sort of a germany of american. education the world how long do you think it will continue. until you predict the. difficult maybe

a number thirty twenty thirty years in other another twenty thirty years or twenty years in the russian university become world class. last students who are go out go to the u.s. and maybe some american turn. come to turn on the russia. because here in the west already. good enough. well you say twenty thirty years but. what's happening now is that russia at least according to your rankings is moving in the other direction the only russian university that's in the ranking is the moscow seat in a verse in the number one here well it's number one in russia it it's look it's. in the eighty eighth position this year but in two thousand and four it was in the sixty six position so it's going going down in the ratings so why why do you

think what's wrong with russian education because we used to have one of the best educational system in the soviet union but it's being downgraded here after what's happening now and nothing wrong with the right education. i guess there is in moscow state university is getting lower resistance in the last few years is because other universities came much faster progress. has very easy is not. rushing to. the russian universities are joining the so-called balon your process and many here in moscow say he's bad do you think it's bad or is it good would help to compete internationally. well you have to your entire in the garment always see cheney's heart patients should have its own characteristics i think

a rash should also have a bad. bony a process i think he's going to want good for russia good for you appearing countries because the thing that makes it makes much easier to pull of these countries. to go international and then we fix the internationalize the saying is that they changed there's no other choice but to follow that train and i hope you are a chemist yourself you're going to be here you see the do you know good who lived just across the street from the north remitted men who live oh really just across the street i'll tell you when you when you get out of this you should see that i don't think listen the reason that you are a trained chemist is this a reason why you why your sister why you shall have a writing system focus is mainly a natural sciences and there isn't enough attention to do humanitarian know nothing to do with that actually the purpose of was initial purpose was the positioning of

universities those are the only indicator is you can find data globally so there's no other choice and for humanities it's. very different and i don't think. you can find indicators in the near future and the data of course in the near future by the way you said you used to be a chemist why did you decide to put chemistry aside. and was the best something personal i was a very difficult d.c.c. getting all the best stretch of plenty of my university to become world class as part of the national initiative or like the russia is going on actually and see if a new. director of the president of the university try to pursue. with me to you know to do more of this stretch of planning. after. just four years i said ok let's try it's a big challenge. it's

a big challenge interesting but do use some kind of feel sorry for dumping your initial initial profession chemistry and becoming sort of our well planning strategist bureaucrat or whatever you call yourself whale. i was still a professor now but any social science i think. interdisciplinary research now is that trained for the last twenty or thirty years most of the know we've seen breakthrough research from. interdisciplinary research for example many number of prize winners. konami's how a background of basics of mathematics some simple are the number of prize winners so you think to discipline a research opec iran is always good in the waiting but what well you mentioned

they're both prize winners i've always thought that nowadays it's a real headache for for the nobel nobel committee to decide well this guy should be given the prize in physics or in mathematics or or you know just trying to me or whatever i mean they're always. into yeah i agree yeah that's why i'm seeing many there and when you pray pray as other men in the field other than their department so do you believe humanity still exists as a science. why it did pass exists is a. very important. country . but it's difficult to compare a global ok my son he's thirteen he's going to go to university in a couple of years he wants to be a journalist as me should he go study journalism should he go study mathematics and

then become a journalist just pays for personal interest. electable may you decide. to thank every. journalist and. thank you thank you professor for being with us and just to remind that my guest on the show today was perforce a new young so i knew the creator of the shana hiatt ranking one of the most prestigious has actually made him the first ranking university ranking system in the world and i've said for a long long haul flights probably will be back with more rest on call most on what's going on and outside russia until then russia today and take care thank you thank you.

thank.

lisa. look. i live. it is easy to view it's. easy. to. see.

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