i think one or two percent of g.d.p. will be the impact and it depends on what two months from now whether or not then the impact becomes more and then we go into recession but right now looks like we'll just have a slow growth period followed by. more slow growth or recession one of the other because when you say this is going to doctor at one or two percent i mean the economy is only growing low single digits in the u.s. so i mean does this really kind of move the u.s. back a notch just it really kind of you heard story any bad outcome from what happens two months was definitely going to be the sort of thing that could put us over into recession and you know particular you could get a much bigger sort of impact as a result of the payroll tax hike really hits the middle class rate word hurts and that could potentially be the sort of thing that has a very big multiplier so you know two months from now we're going to see how

congress deals with the debt ceiling and the second what's called the sequester restoration. i got it wrong million times i'm sure now then my next question then is since the bush tax cuts are now permanent for most people is that a good thing because it's always better for that money to be in the hands of the private sector than going to government coffers or is it bad because the c.b.s. says that hey we're looking at four trillion dollars added to the budget deficit as a result what are located sort of from the specter of that is that right now what the economy needs is you know more hands in people's pockets more even. more really admirable are there that i was a celebrity. and they're getting. you know over time if you need to control inflation or to slow the economy when we get there when the unemployment rates three percent then maybe taxes will change but into. i think

this is a good thing and you know if you're thinking about stimulus at the end of the day i think americans have decided over the last three or four years that they prefer tax cuts to government spending in terms of stimulus and so that's what we're getting i mean isn't there an argument to be made that always that money will be more efficient in the private sector then and then in the government you can make that argument but i think what we've seen is actually especially in a debt deflationary environment you know in a post fiscal crisis post. financial crisis environment the government multiplier is very large and so that works in both directions stimulus you know to the multiplier there but we've seen and this is what we're seeing in europe right now is that the downside is that when you cut government spending it has a huge multiplier effect and you know austerity gets you into deep recessions and that's what's happening all throughout their periphery right now well in europe where you also have different situations in each of these different countries that

kind of have unique situations but i do but you know ireland and spain are probably the closest to the united states in that regard and i think it's the who released the paper that says that in a financial crisis the economic multiplier of government spending is higher than it would be otherwise and as you know the i.m.f. is always right historically has always been right on the mark i do want to ask though about the fed minutes that came out because there were a few fed officials a few afghans the voting members that asset buying will be warranted only until the end of two thousand and thirteen and we're going to see q.e. come to an end this year. that's definitely. we obviously i don't know what the. most think that the economy is in much better shape than it is in fact i think that the economy or market it's really just it's false for them to say that because we know for a fact that they've point blank. we are targeting the unemployment rate for the

median forecast from the fed itself to the unemployment rate isn't going to reach the target level that they're looking for at least for another two years so the concept that they will stop by just. this and that target is six and a half percent meanwhile it's interesting because we did get the a.d.p. payrolls out today and this is a private sector gauge of job growth that's sometimes on the mark sometimes off from the b.l.s. numbers that come out tomorrow it showed two hundred fifteen thousand jobs were created in december added from one hundred forty eight thousand in november which was revised suggest job growth last month was more than analysts were anticipating now i've seen some argue that this means that employers weren't so concerned about the fiscal cliff my question is on this issue of the uncertainty surrounding tax hikes and regulation if that has been overstated the impact that that has on a small business owner that's looking to hire has it been overstated or is that a very valid concern valid argument was

a valid argument but it has been overstated i think that basically really the driving force of the economy is the consumer and the consumer goes out and spend and then people are going to go higher in order to meet that spend and so at the end of the day you know if you're going to cut taxes that's a positive thing it's going to raise taxes that's a negative thing in terms of consumer spending that's really what it's all about and to the degree that people have. in terms of deciding you know their inventories you might get some minimal effects as they prepare for a potential cut in consumer spending but beyond that it's really just nonsense and we're do mention that a lot is hanging on the two months from now the debt ceiling debate and of course in two thousand and eleven if that's any guide it was a disaster they didn't have a deal until very late in the game the u.s. credit rating was downgraded by at least one major ratings agency and another is trying to do so again this time. we don't. what kind of mess this will create but

one solution that has been floated to it is that the treasury could exploit a loophole in the law that allows it to mint platinum coin. they can give any value that they want to it in some people is that they make a trillion dollar coin have the president ordered it to be deposited into the fed the fed can put in the treasuries account and dan make a couple of those babies and the treasury can pay its bills debt ceiling raised or not. why is this getting any traction i'm sorry this has sounds crazy to me. because the whole debt ceiling debate is crazy basically you know you have the government's balance sheet which has liabilities that are either in bonds or more and some other form and what we're saying in terms of the debt ceiling is that when the government issues liabilities in this particular form that is bonds. certainly in the public we don't like that and therefore we're going to hold that constant what the platinum coin does is it shows that this is just a you know it's a it's

a false narrative it's sort of an artificial constraint in order to keep government from spending too much money but isn't that constrained i mean if you're going to have one person that agrees with you as a former fed official an economist joseph gagnon i've actually interviewed him before he was quoted in washington post saying i like it there is nothing that's obviously economically problematic about it talking about this trillion dollar coin idea but ever the thing that i comes up to me is and i understand the argument about accounting and this is just kind of the cold hard facts about money creation the stone age but doesn't that not take into account the fact that we're all human beings we all make decisions based on psychology and behavior and to everybody that's kind of watching this i mean could it freak people out that the government is just really in a dollar they're going to end up causing a mint bank account it should freak them out the so-called leader of the free world is having this ridiculous debate do you really think that in switzerland in germany

they're having debt ceiling debates as the german government has eighty percent debt to g.d.p. and they're saying no we have to you know stable that we know of course not because they're not three mornings darling in dollar coin with. as much of a deficit problem any other country with you know there are eighty percent spain said nine hundred percent france is it eighty percent so you know those are the debates that are going on there the united states. having a debate that's completely illegitimate and it really you know we should see it because i mean it's completely irresponsible the point that i was making earlier is that you know what would happen with a trillion dollar coin is they're just replacing one they're just walking liabilities are saying we're not going to have it but we're going to the trillion dollar coin liability so the real question is if you want to cut spending if you want to make sure that the government's not you know spending out of control then that's for congress to do go out cut the spending you know of course that will tip

us into recession but you know that's the whole point it's not about the debt ceiling the debt ceiling is a kind of sorry try and quickly before we go because you wanted to mention it europe it's not over in two thousand and thirteen you say there are still issues you're looking at spain why well you know basically spain has five percent in terms of their a yield right now the deposits are coming back to the banks everything's hunky dory but the reality is that spain has a deficit they're going to continue to have to have funding needs they also have their regions that are locked out of the debt market they also have the banks which have housing prices that are falling and so they're going to need more capital and i'm out of time but you're saying this spells sovereign bailout in two thousand thirteen i think it's a spell solvability not just for spain but potentially for italy as well there you go europe is not over it's not out of the woods not even at all thank you edward harrison founder of credit write downs still ahead because bill gross warns investors about lurking inflationary dragons will discuss his advice in today's

lease change and might les miserables provide insight into our current economic woes jeffrey tucker is here to explain after the break but first your closing market numbers. the government no longer represents the. the people are going to take the terms. on. the way our economic system.

les miserables is a newish american movie of the musical based on the historical french novel written by victor hugo published in eight hundred sixty two with a thoughtful commentary on the politics and society of early eight hundred france detailing intense poverty but is it rife with economic messages for today will the story follow john bell john who spends one thousand years in jail for stealing a loaf of bread this guy there is arch nemesis he has to do hard labor to he cannot escape this path because he breaks parole and inspector job after him and this is the fate of another poor soul fantine she works in a factory she cannot change her destiny she gets fired because she has

a kid she turned to prostitution ends up getting sick and dying now there is also a revolution based reportedly on the real life paris uprisings of eighteen thirty two which was anti-monarchy insurrection led by student groups that failed now that's a twenty second cliff notes version to fill in the holes and tell us why there are so many lessons to heed from this today is geoffrey tucker executive editor of the love a fair books thank you for being here it's so nice to see you to read. this movie and weren't you i read to write a very thoughtful piece about how it's relevant today so what do you think is the modern economic message to take away from lame is well it's a story about liberty versus power and so many ways represents the modern state i mean pursuing this for example asleep no reason i mean just a just a posthumous grudge that really makes no sense whatsoever and so many of the modern stuff this way and regulatory apparatus and drugs i mean all the things that it's

doing it's almost like an inertia an unquestioning status to religion we have to do this because it's the rule because in the movie he's after john paul john jr or breaking his parole for stealing a loaf of bread and that's his. one main goal in life regardless of the fact that anybody watching can say ok this is absurd i don't. and it's preposterous and you have to be sympathetic to the german version because there was a time of great poverty that's because this petty crime was committed you know twenty years ago it's a little bit disproportionate to hound a guy for the rest of it's his life so jump on john's face is this decision he says don't want to live a good life to live a life of freedom to have something i can call my own or do i want to just comply and obey and my contention is that many americans are now feeling the same same thing like many people living under desperate to despotism and all times in all places we have to decide but in what way in modern us culture because obviously we don't have people in prison mostly twenty years first you know one of them brought

out life tomorrow as a result and you know fleeing to really destitute france and run monarchy is in order to run our lives so whatever the cause dramatically it's a little more petty but you know the sort of federal code of subject conduct nobody could possibly ever comply with that no business could possibly ever comply with this thing and now we have breaking bad is. going on all over the country in every conceivable way whether pot smoking or downloading illegally online or just trying to run your business make a profit without paying relentless attention to the regulators i'm not really sure that it is possible in modern america to really succeed in the enterprise and that you decide to go in the only way we're all in right and all that engage everyone is engaged and there's a miniature revolution x. it's not like paris you know eight hundred thirty two but there's a little micro revolution going on all the time you simply can't comply with all the dictates of leviathan and expect to live and have a thriving business enterprise or an economy without that and so i think the ample

of what you do you separate well you know what they're going to be doing i know we're going to hear a lot about are you back in so that you don't know your lawn oh you know i have every shower that i run a contractor but really i mean it's become this way i mean in american life today we have something like a hundred years of craft the. regulations that are going to ruin them it's not possible there's a kind of represents in a way this this rule of compliance this idea that we have to comply and that is and it's very interesting in the film because he you know he pursues this almost like he has to believe in the no matter what and when he's touched fundamentally. active. that becomes a problem for him because then he asked a question from what is he really about my hope is that the public sector and total one person movember three go this way as you have heard from the women examine

their laws well that's a question i have for you because you say you know the example that the movie gives in the violent revolution doesn't work that's not successful what is successful is more this moral revolution when job they're part of the state realizes wait this doesn't make sense and i'm doing has this kind of moral epiphany so do you think in the u.s. for example to give that comparison that no amount of occupy wall street protesting or any other protesting will we see will make the kind of mark that it will make when a politician looks himself in the mirror and goes away i can't live with myself pandering to the special interests for reelection anymore right willow and i think i've been involved and this activism for liberty my entire life and the longer i have what i see is that ultimately i think we're facing a moral crisis and the solution will be a more when i won't be through armed revolution or even much through political activism we have to finally the absurdities of this current system have to be confronted and once that consciousness dawns on especially on the public sector

servants and then we will begin to see a collapse of the regime and i think that's actually what's going on right now that's interesting you think is happening i do think a lot of the connection because you seem to making between statism and poverty because you talk about the poverty that really hits you in the face what about that connection and also how it was allows a fair. writer and economist was kind of born of that same period same same same generation they were both liberals you know french liberals of the time when this one was a humanist a writer a novelist the other was an economist a legal theorist but they were both giving it the same message that if you want if you want economists to thrive and civilizations to grow you have to let people be free you have to permit them to pursue their own interests without. fighting against this kind of despotic system this is why i think this film speaks to a very important especially i think it's very interesting for everyone to look at that the intense poverty that you see in the film it's just gripping you know like

. you know so it's just it's shocking but yes there's a relationship between between government control and despotism and the poverty that results we've seen that since two thousand without one question that i want to ask about because have you seen another movie that was out in two thousand called beasts of the southern wild. oh my gosh it was so good you have to see it are you kidding it was a male thing what they were but you know what they mean i felt that this was a movie ok so it's a it's a fantasy that their community live in and by you in the south they have a massive storm they're told to evacuated an air supposed to evacuate but they believe this is our home this is where we want to stay and what's important is that you protect yourself you care for your survival you don't worry about the government coming to save you is a scene if you have time to play it that the dad teaching his daughter how to fish . you have to learn how

to feed yourself. you got a bow your fist punch in. this case you have to whack him when he come out. so they're living this kind of libertarian life in my view the way that i read it but it's also coupled with their totally poor they're they're broke i'm through with them or i was there with the. right i don't regulate it so is it a more complex conversation than just like liberty equals prosperity where i mean there has to be you know capital accumulation of private property all these things go into making a civilization we've learned this but apparently we haven't and learned it entirely because since two thousand and eight we've done nothing but grow the state you know in intervene and prevent people from finding their way out of the recession and that's really the essence of what they call stimulus it's not stimulus it's the opposite and i think it's wonderful thing that the so many movies are coming out like in two thousand and twelve companies subsequence wouldn't let me. these films

go like hunger games dark knight rises so many are about this great struggle between between liberty and power between despotism and you know the desire of people to have to control their own laws so they can build a prosperity for them and they will keep watching movies and assessing the reality of our economic situation thank you so much jeffrey tambor he's executive editor of la is a fair book. let's wrap up with loose change dimitri what do you say let's talk about inflationary dragon all right. we have long known that pimco is bill gross is not the biggest

fan of easy fed policy is. even the fed admits that interest rates would be two thousand two hundred basis points higher which means prices would be perhaps four to six percent lower so yes the fed is significantly influencing the bubbling of both phones and stuff well in his letter this month he warned of inflationary dragons telling investors ultimately government financing schemes such as today's q ways are england's early seven hundred south sea bubble and badly dimitri we were just talking about inflation yesterday and inflation calls that didn't play out do you think that ultimately it's at the implications further down the road when the fed and white balance sheets and i think it's one after the down the road these guys say i was surprised that. they i think they put on their inflationary trades in like two thousand and eleven pimco and they did get i don't know killed they got they got hit on a pretty. center fielder the son metaphor that he used but i and i sympathize this

because i had a much more profound pleasure in mind said. on why i had a point if the fed came out and at the end of their like a few fed officials said hey then that will happen. well i mean. i would think that the markets you know this is this is the thing we had colin on call talked about yes and i thought about it before and i believe it and we talk about this graph i think that the fed is much more in the business of. open mouth policy in terms of expectations then it is anything to that they can physically do because the banking

sector is what we rely on to increase the money supply much of the banking sort of financial sector in general so that's really where the inflation the reflation of economic kind of you can come from and i think that we have a lot more debt to work through and a lot more confidence to build up we actually see that dimitri we're out of time but i just want to ask you about this story we can't play any clips or anything but according to a new study it found that babies born during recessions turn out to be more delinquent teens and they found this across the board regardless of you know whether you were born to middle class family or poor family or what not they looked at i think the eighty one recession and they they said it could be comparable now you know i have to say just this because we were born and i would i were you know i was i were delinquent we're not going to raise those kind of wild how that was much later law no doubt was when i when you was a very big know you know these are the little growing it was a very unusual thing weren't to break in what was. right we'll leave it there that's all we have time for thank you so much for watching be sure to come back tomorrow in the meantime you know you can follow me on twitter out lauren lyster

and you can go like our facebook page there is the address give us feedback and you chose the myth that you tube dot com flash capital account had just an h.d. on hulu and on t.v. now to and from everyone here thank you so much for watching and have a great night. wealthy british. time. market why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy with my next concert no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to come. is a report on r t. v

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