today my guest on the show is guy rock. when a crisis strikes the economy unemployment usually louise's and actually it becomes a vicious circle the more people lose jobs the more problems it creates inside the country's economy and as a result even more people lose their jobs so what can we do about it can we do something and who's responsible the business on the state will discuss it with a guy ryder who's the director general of the international aid organization. still hasn't recovered from the financial meltdown unemployment is the most pressing issue for millions around the globe this year at the g. twenty chaired by russia named quality job creation as its top priority but what exactly can be done. international labor organization chief god writer says the

first thing is to build a program to reach every country is committed this is perhaps the most difficult. road to welcome to the show good morning here thank you very much for being with us as well and i want to start with the g. twenty agenda russia has recently taken over the presidency of the g. twenty and employment is one of the most important topics since matter of fact moscow wants to include the poignant topic into the agenda of the next g. twenty meeting well actually the subject has been discussed in cannes in seoul in wherever so is there anything new to be said to said on this subject. my quick answer to you is. the same way so much new to be said but there's a great deal that needs to be done and i think this is the this is the point you're

quite right to say that since. two thousand and nine the g twenty has put employment and jobs issues at the center of its work and indeed the ilo has been involved in the g. twenty is work but the problem is that we still face a dramatic crisis of jobs in the world around the world there's over two hundred million people without a job that's more than six percent of the global workforce and that's without counting part time work and under employment so we really do have to move action on jobs in the g twenty and i'm very very happy that the russian presidency which starts right now as decided to put jobs right up front in the middle of the agenda the iowa of course stands ready to play its role in making sure that these words do get translated into action that's what matters well you recently said the g twenty countries should urgently make good on the commitments they made in the last crabgrass well have any of the declarations come true yet

for what happened in los cabos the last time the g twenty leaders met in mexico was they said look if things get worse in the world of work if the situation deteriorates then we should act jointly to try to stimulate the global economy. for them to do that and i think it is time for them to do that and i also think that the russian presidency of the g twenty provides a great deal of opportunity with delighted with the information that we've received that the russian government does intend to convene a meeting of labor ministers during the g twenty and something which is new and something which i think is potentially very important is that they are going to link the meeting of labor ministers with a minister of finance ministers as well because one of the problems that we have is the world of work there usually it's activists. who see in no way but the problem

is if ministers of labor are doing one thing or ministers of finance or doing another thing. thing you're going to get a sort of incoherence which is going to really prevent us moving forward getting people back to work and we have a chance to overcome that disconnection i would say a you mentioned something starting to happen while you're here in moscow i've heard that after you met prime minister medvedev russia is becoming a donor of the. labor organization it is there true this is something that you haven't before well of course every country pays its normal fee to the ilo to finance this but in addition to that a number of countries make what we call voluntary contributions to finance activities and russia has started to do that so i'll be signing an agreement today here in moscow which will be russian financing for activities in other countries which has got to do with training skills development in some of your neighbor countries post on what has moscow decided to finally do that is it because of your

activity or is it because because kremlin has come up with something that they feel they have to do it while i think it's in the natural course of events russia is playing an ever greater role in the international community and that includes the aiello i think the relations between the ilo and russia are good and russia obviously feels the confidence in our over his asian and has the means to make this new contribution it's a relatively modest start but i hope it will grow into something bigger i'm very pleased with i'm well. i have seen the figures that the united states only needs ten million new jobs today to return to the pre quizes levels three million jobs are needed just to replace the loss and another seven million to observe the people coming in the new comers to leave america who's responsible for for creating these just to clarify those ten million jobs are in the period up to

two thousand and sixteen that's a period of president obama's administration ten million jobs over those four so this is this is a headache. it's one of president obama's challenges and now you ask who is responsible i think it is often said that the people who create jobs in the world of the private sector not governments and it's true that ninety percent of newly created jobs do come from the private sector and no doubt about it we need to create conditions in which private enterprises can grow and can prosper but of course that depends also on government policies in today's conditions where too often the commies are getting smaller jobs are disappearing you know enterprises are not going to prosper so what we need is a good partnership good job creating public policies and then a dynamic private enterprise but the two things are linked together the year you're talking about partnership when are asked about job creation the first word you said

was answering the question was about administration so i mean government state surely they can't influence job creation but isn't it a natural interest of pure capitalism because we're in this part of the world we used when we talk about the united states with pure capitalism well it should be unnatural i mean why not let the matter rest and let couples work it doesn't work that doesn't work and indeed many people at the time the crisis broke in two thousand and eight announced. i quote the return of the states now it's not quite that either but it is quite true that market based systems and by and large market based systems are what prevail in the world they still need rules they still need regulation and if there's one lesson that has come out of this crisis when the financial system got in trouble when the economy got in trouble who had to come to the rescue well it was governments and the taxpayer so i think we should dispense

with the notion that capitalism is self-regulating it exists in total isolation of government we need appropriate government and we need international cooperation to make sure that governments act together to get it right because a globalized economy means international cooperation or else we're not going to get the job well you surely so like a more there's another quote we all also sound like more of this is what you said recently. it's essential to get the financial economy working for the real economy . this is worth well you must think there's an awful lot of marxists around and i certainly don't count myself a marxist i think everybody recognizes across the political spectrum from quite liberal observers to more social democratic observers that the financial

economy has been at the roots of this crisis everybody knows that and i think everybody recognizes too that in order to get the real economy and that's remember the real economy is where people work where value is added and where human needs are responded to to get that back on the road the financial sector has to play its normal role it's perfectly normal of providing finance providing credit and one of the problems we have today is that in addition to try to repair the damage that's been done to the financial sector the financial. sector is still not providing credit to viable enterprises as i go around the world i hear this problem repeated again and again and again how can we get those banks which have money or indeed those enterprises which are sitting on record piles of money to start investing again that's the task so so so we're back to work you said earlier so we went to

the finance minister and the labor minister to two two said to sit next to each other rather than the on the opposite side of the table that's right and if you look at western europe in any case you have these very difficult situations and by the way nobody underestimate how difficult the situations are but you have countries in southern europe in particular where the objective necessary objective of restoring financial stability getting debt under control and the need to get people back to work almost seem like antagonistic objectives so what do you do in a country like greece in a country like spain where don't forget more than fifty percent of young people out of work but where they need to get debt under control but you need a certain degree of coordination between these two objectives otherwise i think we're going to fall into a very dangerous situation russian president vladimir putin i don't know to what

extent he has more access to his ideology but he does certainly sound often pretty nostalgic for the soviet union for example recently he proposed to reintroduce these so called the hero of socialist labor remember that order we have big goldstar the hero the hero of labor so you say we should reintroduce the don't rush do you think of this is the right thing to do this is the right so we can motivate people this way because because why why this decoration was abolished because russia was moving to. market economy and they said no only money salaries that's it i don't actually detect much nostalgia for the past months the russian government officials i've been meeting with in moscow and indeed when president putin came to the ilo conference our conference in june of two thousand and eleven he was prime minister then of course and invited us to come to moscow for a conference he said something which i think was very forward looking he said that

russia has to modernize its one child out of every three grades adapt jobs and skills to the rigors of the new market economy and of course since then russia has become part of the world trade organization i don't detect in any of this nostalgia for the past i detect rather there are major challenges involved in this a readiness to confront a future which is very firmly in the market based economy and within and in international context so russia's challenges i think are the challenges of the future not revisiting those of the past so so so were you think this series stablish world of the old soviet decorations is sort of a populism or what i have no knowledge or move but i don't think that it really marks out a serious or important part of the the government's approach to the labor market i have to say that i've heard as well that russia intends to create you know twenty

five minute you mention the ten million jobs in the united states well the russian government has talked about the creation of twenty five million jobs these are the began bishops for the future and they're the ones that matter really says guy. general of the international labor organization spotlight will be back shortly after we take a great so stay with us and go. victims multiply here each day. it's very profitable to invest in colombia with that every profit out of them is a very high return on investment. which is good knowing that he has said that i've been working in this area for thirty years and i've always had to pay the armed

groups that they needed by this i knew that not a managers who change their name and strategy but just feel the same murderous. high ranking suspects you know coming. pretty upset about that mr president goes. to president putin. but the media. i won't give an interview i'm sorry but no. investigation is a dead. end and he says he's sick and can't stop your bullshit and keep quiet or else you'll suffer the consequences. of eagerness and your bodyguards to watch themselves because the same goes for them. recruits from synch i've never heard of such a case as ours were so much money and gold has scope for so many years. for all the gold in colombia on our t.v.

. i am. but it got me. thinking. was. it. live. what we're about to spotlight i'm out of it just the wild. ride to the

director general of the international labor of the people in the western europe especially of the blue collar workers are known to be to be doing good mimic making good money and many say this may be one of the reasons for the severe economic situation actually people in many countries well especially the ones you mention that everybody's mentioning today the spain portugal greece have been making more than they were actually earning is that true well that's look at the facts and i think that what you have to do is look at the facts look at wages what's happening to real wages what people workers actually get in their pocket and let's take the longer term from that say two thousand look at the developed world the industrialized world as a whole from two thousand and two thousand and eleven that's when we have the latest figures real wages have increased by five percent in total it's

a very very modest increase five percent inflation level maybe lower. inflation into our base real wages five percent now that's not very much in some countries it's even blind or gone down that is a case in the united states so it's difficult to claim that workers in the industrialized world are actually getting more than they're earning if you like and in fact if you look at a different way you look at the share of labor in national income what slice of the cake goes to labor that's gone down very substantially in the one nine hundred seventy s. it was seventy five percent of national income today it's sixty five percent now that's the industrialized world so that's so perso go. word to the state or to the kept those discussed before and then it might be redistributed in different ways but it's going to profit now that's the situation in the industrialized world look at the developing world the story is very different in asia over that same time

period wages have doubled real wages have doubled in china they have tripled with people getting i think they're working for food only working for somebody you call it doubled well what it is double turn it is startled in china it's tripled but you're quite right and i'm not denying it the differences are still very substantial very very substantial where is the work that we say in the philippines might be on an industrialized industrial worker might be getting two dollars an hour in the united states to be getting twenty three twenty four in denmark to be getting thirty five so those are the realities but the trend the trend in tendency is a not i think for labor to be pricing itself out of jobs in fact the tendency is rather the officer so if we talk about the tendency for example people say that experts say that this year the rise in salaries will be lower than the inflation rate may

be in western europe at least doesn't mean that for for many people it would be a good good choice to go find a job somewhere somewhere in the developing world where all this difference still still makes it a business that all the questions there is in europe in fact real wages did go down slightly in two thousand and eleven for this year so far as we can tell it's a bit early with the numbers we think it's going to flatline it's more or less zero and next year to next year we have to see how it goes the prospects are not great that's for sure but the question is not so much the wages the question is jobs when so many people unemployed you're quite right people are beginning to look for jobs in other countries if you talk to young people and there are twenty five percent of young p. . well unemployed in the eurozone they're beginning to look for opportunities in other countries you talk to spanish kids or to portuguese they look to latin america you do many portuguese and this may surprise you russia looking to go to

angola it's an oil rich are going to talk more as you get over there they talk they already know as those who can play football go to brazil well that might also be true and then of course they have economies which are growing there's a commodity boom and there are jobs available so migration is on the increase and this is an important part of the crisis situation that we are facing together ok a question i want to ask you when they knew you were coming to this show is when i was a kid at school we learned that one of the main goals when when people stablished the interest labor organization is to fight exploitation the fight exploitation by the capitalist the voided the the labor force the workers so this is fresh this change since the beginning of the twentieth century so can we say that that we have defeated exploitation today or does that still exists let's be clear the idea of the international labor organization is to try to ensure decent

standards of working conditions for everybody and including the protection of people's basic rights and so far what they taught me at school sounded better and that's just it's just the there is location that sounds great these things there is this i don't know about you know that's what i say you know a director general of the ilo now i think that those object is still as relevant today as they were right at the beginning we were founded in one nine hundred nineteen very soon by the way after events in this country as you will of noticed now there are still very serious situations of abuse in the world of work there are two hundred fifty million children who are still a work that should be the case there is still force. labor in the world there are still situations of modern slavery these are the most extreme circumstances i'm not saying that they're general but beyond those extreme abuses of fundamental rights which it is a priority of the ilo to get rid of we have to ensure that there are decent

conditions of work particularly in times of crisis so our agenda the aisle those agenda is agenda for decent work so people should have a chance of a job which gives a decent income they should have basic social protection so if you get into trouble you get sick or you get unemployed or when you're old you should have a minimum of coverage their rights should be protected and lastly we believe in what we call social dialogue when problems arise the solutions are best found when governments workers and employers sit down together the ilo is made up of the way not just to governments but employers and workers and find solutions it works it's fair according to your ideology i mean the ideology of your organization can such a thing as cheap labor can exist on earth. well you know wages are different in different countries nobody has ever argued and certainly the ilo has never argued

for a minimum wage for everybody in the world it's not a an idea which is realistic or necessary and many countries can benefit from the fact that their labor costs are lower than other countries people in asia produce nothing wrong about that there's nothing wrong about it so long as what underpins that is not an abuse so long as those wages are fixed freely workers' rights are respected then i think this is a perfectly normal situation and as i've described to you wages are moving up very much more quickly in those cheaper wage economies than they are in the more expensive ones so we're seeing change and this is in the natural order i think of social progress many. governments including by the way the russian government think that by by letting the four of the work force come into the country triply cheap labor from other countries come here and work there are solving lots of economic

problems the other is say that no you're not solve it you're creating new problems so your attitude towards that migration is a natural part of the globalized economy for various reasons often demographic reasons population shortages in some countries surpluses in others people move from one country to another sometimes it's because particular skills are needed i think this is an entirely beneficial process so long as it takes place in an orderly and satisfactory framework often people move illegally outside formal channels that can be a very dangerous situation not least because it leaves people open to exploitation but i don't think that people should regard migration either as a problem nor as an obligation i want it to be the case where people move from one country to another they do suit voluntarily and under legal conditions where their

rights and interests and those of the countries involved the sending country and the receiving country are respected there is no reason why they should not be authority positive contribution to the way our global economy works but people say that they're the reason why people foreign workers are moving into russians as big quanties did in growing corn these is because simply because they can make more money year then they're making at home and they're not actually contributing to the russian economy all the money they get are sent back to their of families back home sept so this is one of the problems well i don't think it's necessarily a problem it's natural that people move to get a higher level of wages in a new country let me give the biggest example of all. mexicans going to the united states mexicans go to the united states to earn a high income mexicans contribute very gratefully to the u.s. economy the reality today is that more mexicans are going home to mexico cinna

going to the united states economic conditions change and people will react accordingly but that's not treat migration as a problem it is in fact one of those lubricants of the global economy which managed properly will be to the advantage of the sending country and the receiving country and there's no reason why russia should be an exception to that idea guy ryder a head of the international labor organization talking to us in the spotlight thank you very much and you're with us and i just want to finish the program by saying as he usually that you can always contact us on our or not at r.t. t.v. dot are you and please send us your proposals on who you want us to interview next time spotlight will be back with more firsthand comments on what's going on in and outside russia and so then they are r.t. and take care thank you thank yous are.

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