possibly they wanted a confrontation possibly they wanted to me to ring up the police have the police come in for the money that didn't seem to me a good idea to learn the european way with brussels business. in the uk kristie it's one person one folds but in brussels business it's one euro one folds. the. sun it's technology innovation all the least of elements from around russia we've got the future covered.

welcome to the kaiser report imax kaiser if you need to ask what exactly is in your ready mail chances are you don't really want to know if you need to ask what is in your mortgage backed security chances are you don't really want to know i mean do you really want to know that there is a boot laced horsemeat in your c.d.o. infinitely re hypothecated m.f.

global debt in your burger or is that the other way around it's so hard to keep track with all these conflicting statements from the f s a's stacy exactly max l. every single night on the news here there's a problem that the f.s.a. was supposed to be responsible for and of course that's because there's the financial services authority and the food standards agency and it is that the two scandals otherwise are as crimes are very similar in the conduct of the authorities and the regulators and the participants in it could exactly be the same but yeah that's fantastic because they both lead to. a decline in living standards and inflation you know because when they chop up the mortgage backed securities and chop up the bond they securitized the bonds and they create interbank sells me to all of these of these adulterated bonds the bank of england steps in to add the filler to add the horsemeat to add the additional

adulteration that causes the purchasing power of the pound to decline because inflation simultaneously the food is adulterated as well so that that's hiding the fact that food prices are going up it's still to inflation but they also have real inflation too soon to be real inflation in the food prices so we're in an inflationary vortex here in the u k. the first headline here reads horsemeat why did no one want to disclose full scale of scandal again you know compare this to the financial crisis every single word i say could almost be the same as referring to the collapse of the derivatives market that led to the collapse of the global financial market perhaps mindful of creating an economically damaging food scare food safety officials and ministers have repeatedly stressed that the on label course is safe to eat but as the leading food scientists don't think campbell pointed out to the independent last month how can they be certain they didn't know

about the horsemeat for months and they still don't know where it comes from the money in the u.k. the british pound is full of filler every time you spend a british pound you are creating inflation because you're expanding the debt load of the economy which is meant by more money printing so the act of spending the act of consuming is debasing your currency the act of eating adulterated food is encouraging more food adulteration and it's degrading your health remember this horsemeat is let's be honest it's it's unregulated and it's it's also filled with other unhealthy additives at the same time that's causes health problems which of course end up being borne by the n.h.s. the national national health service which again requires more money printing and more inflation now go back comparing this to the financial crisis remember at the time. libel or rates were rigged partly in complicity with the regulators and the

like the bank of england because they wanted people to not be afraid of being in the markets they didn't want people to know how bad it was here they're saying the same thing that the food safety officials were worried that it would economically damage the agribusiness and forget the health of the system forget the health of the participants or that the customers of these products the same here is we keep on being told it's safe to go back. in the markets it's safe to stay in the markets even though in the financial markets they don't know what is actually in these derivatives i mean only a few weeks ago the financial stability board remember they said we found six trillion dollars more in the shadow banking system that we didn't know even existed the week before so these food vendors will be too big to sell they'll say we can't regulate food we don't care what's horsemeat dunking me rat me we don't care it's all meat meat is mate you've got it if you stop eating it the whole system will collapse it's your bread meat you stupid british idiots reacher see videos or

collateralized debt obligations spreading this remarkably corrupt town we don't care just keep doing it now when you had the robo signing a mortgage fraud problems remember what it was what was it about it because nobody knew who owned the mortgages nobody own to the paper for this mortgages these packages the mortgages. creating basically the financial system instability now we turn to this horse meat which now are some are saying is some of it is donkey meat it came from abbott was in romania through a dealer in cyprus working through another dealer in holland to meet plant in the south of france which sold it to a french own factory in luxembourg which made it into frozen meals sold in supermarkets in sixteen countries reminds me of a dutch sandwich you know like when the bonnano in you to pay taxes they use the dutch sandwich they are using and the barclays according to panorama the b.b.c.

investigative journalist show here in the u.k. demonstrated how barclays uses all of these different banks around the world to create all these tax avoidance schemes that are bordering on the legal slash wink wink the legal and of course this is the dutch sandwich which to use the metaphor of food and then when you go to eat a burger or lisbie flows on it you open up the package and inside is a collateralized debt obligation while they just collateralized horsemeat goes on here to finance a multi-billion dollar tranche of debt to build some kind of meat processing plant where they can process rats and put those into the rat sandwich that they're feeding on of course all ospital they're eating rats the schools are eating rats the people down in tesco those are eating goes on the a rat because i don't care anymore because a. two legged dead horse is there are. these poor people also comparing this again to the financial crisis we were jamie diamond of j.p.

morgan has been braiding regulators around the world saying these minimum capital requirements we can't stand it because of these minimum capital requirements we have to basically lie and tell you it's all good well part of this horsemeat or don't give me scandal is the fact that in romania in the last few months they've banned horses and don't keys on the roads so there's been an oversupply of all these don't keys and horses that people now don't want to feed because they can't use them on. the roads so apparently this is what they're claiming is why this honk honk he gave me to my daughter you know that can be a problem you know there's so many home users so over the holiday overpopulation we decided to turn them into burger that's all and on is. mind you go home at the infestation probable the start of the law is on you is a big deal. so the f.s.a. in this case the food standards agency was made aware of the situation and once

again they attended a cover up the article says the f.s.a. set up in the wake of the b.s.e. crisis remember there are always set up in the wake of a crisis of mad cow disease presses yes they kept secret test results showing the bad drug bute and meat from horses slaughtered in the u.k. last year until after a whistleblower had leaked them so they were set up. to deal with a mad cow disease which again everybody kept on saying eat eat the beef it's ok there was that minister the environment minister who was fed a hamburger to his child and then. be fed that tainted beef to his kid s. what all of these do you. know is going to be frozen is some ice crackers and some crackers and a side of here on t.v. if. i make it you know beautiful. so this week it waited a whole day before telling the public in a brief press release slapped on its website but not sent out to journalists at

frozen before ready meals contain staggering levels of undeclared horsemeat and again this is exactly what the us does the late friday afternoon press releases of oh by the way there's no financial system in oh yeah we're going to give them seven hundred billion dollars to go out shopping so let's move on to the next layer of this horsemeat scandal here in the u.k. and across europe actually and let's see how it also relates to the financial crisis the same sort of misbehavior the same sort of crime and we're calling it a crime and the horsemeat scandal horsemeat scandal blamed on international fraud by mafia gangs there are claims that vets and other officials working with an average was and food production plants are intimidated into signing off meat as before and it is in fact cheaper alternatives such as poor or horse now doesn't this sound like what happens to the rating agencies and the auditors who bless the books of these banks and their c.d.o. those and the readers who give that those c.d.o.

packages an aaa rating well there's four big was here in the city of london there's lloyds royal bank of scotland they just basically and the other one i can remember it with r.b.s. you know there there are the four financial opera twaddles or slaughter houses and they are basically slaughtering the. ah to me paying themselves huge fees to slaughter the economy to sell the financial products of the securitization of derivatives with with substitution of junk bonds which are collateralized by nothing which are kept afloat by the bank of england now from our carney who is you know should be in a circus sideshow as any carney should be that was an appropriate name for mark our user carney bark bark well he's also a carnivore right for the horse meat that is in maybe some of these collateralized debt obligations they should have done a swap between the mortgage backed securities and. now finally on this of course

again comparing it to the financial crisis because who is the biggest derivatives wielder in the world that's j.p. morgan so it makes sense that of course they're going to be somewhere on this chain food fraud horsemeat scandal the polo player linked to findus there's some photos of here lyndon leave the boss of the private equity firm linked to findus is a financier straight out of central casting yes because he's ex goldman sachs he's riding around on a horse they don't say whether he sold his horse one of these i would expect maybe it would be like you know a aaa on your ready meal but they said end with following a restructuring last attempt or lie in capital stake this is his private equity firm in findus was watered down no pun intended i guess to less than a third with hedge funds hybrid capital j.p. morgan and northwest mutual buying into the company well i think we're going to remake suites up with jamie diamond sweeney todd laurie slicing and dicing those

customers and feeding them into the lasagna burgers at least their wealth of course . is a honkey for sure. i say sarah thanks so much for being on the kaiser report thank you stay tuned for the second we'll be speaking to david graber author of dead the first five thousand years. you know how sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harpur welcome to the big picture.

welcome back to the kaiser report imax keyser time editor in two anthropologist david graber author of debt the first five thousand years david graber welcome back to the kaiser report thanks so much for having me right david graber all the talk is of a global currency war from money printing to devaluations to gold repatriation but was it the collapse of the debt markets that happened first is the debt based

system falling apart. yeah i would say that i think that we're at a point where people are coasting along because it's the only thing they know how to do and basically a lot of them don't care if the whole thing falls apart that's why two thousand and eight happened to begin with but i get the impression that there's maybe five ten percent of the people running things who actually care about the long term viability the system and want to talk to these guys they're freaking out i mean they realize they're about to hit three different walls at the same time claymore what three different well i mean there's the debt overhang there's a logical. collapse there's a whole series of obviously not viable long term patterns going on and that's been there for number of years and what's the trigger now is it. first was it going back to the book that the first one thousand years which is a great book which came first money or debt well it all you define it but i mean

a debt in the sense of like i owe you on an obligation that's always exist in others in the book i talk about credit not it came first in other words i would say . let's do this iou. here i'll give you a gift but really you know you owe them something and they kind of invented money to extinguish the debts as a way of yabbies normally you don't want to extinguish the debts because if somebody gives you something give them something back exactly the same it's like saying like i don't know you anymore over the course of the many millennia the concept of debt jubilee has been big actually that's get so big and going back to medieval times the debts were seen of debt forgiveness were seen as a way to prevent the population from getting in bed with their competing rulers let's. say was that of. suddenly being enslaved to everybody and we got some flunky you know so kings would really like that was on the baron's would take over so what about a modern day that usually where are we in that because it looks as if they're hitting

all these while simultaneously someone's going to pop up and say no it maybe we need to just do it at forgot to salute leo it's really. markable the degree to which they're starting to talk about it like two years ago it would have been completely insane to suggest that forgiveness now as i say those people actually care about the long term viability the system they're starting to talk about it and i think it's inevitable some kind of mass debt forgiveness has to happen the real struggle right now i think is how they're going to dress it up whether they're going to be honest about what they're doing or figure out some way to finagle it so they can claim it's not troops they want to keep that idea that leaves poor people really do have to pay their debts and the rich people don't obviously but and you know whether it's going to be used as a way of reproducing the same system the same ridiculous unequal power structures or whether ordinary people are going to finally have some say in what the economy looks like we're going to transform to something more sane and i mean that's that's what it is what forms of debt forgiveness going to ted wells look at the an institution like the federal reserve bank in washington d.c.

they during this crisis have expanded their balance sheet from eight hundred billion dollars or three trillion dollars the leverage fifty to one less than two percent in this three trillion dollars or so is something that has any market value the rest is just an accounting figures that suggest a market value under certain conditions is there a bennett history a time when the global banking system has been leveraged to such a degree where there is a little there there is so little collateral backing up these institutions generally speaking in the past you have temples full of gold some kind of material thing and then all sorts of people doing long credit on the basis of that i mean it is true that like the fed does most of the world's gold reserves there but it's really just a symbol. now it's made up and i think most of that fed money is just it's it's an accounting figure for a way of just giving money to the banks which is what the government policy has been since two thousand and eight you know you lend them you print money you lend

it to them at incredibly low rate of interest and then you let them put it back in the fed and lend back to get a slightly higher rate of them. so you know that the numbers are meaningless it's also a way of just flat out giving money to rich people we mentioned one central banks and gold there's about one hundred sixty thousand tons of gold above ground proximately a third is owned by central banks the rest is owned by there then the population of the population of india owns twenty thousand gasohol means its own jewelry in a sound and other store houses and the public now is increasingly buying gold but there seems to be a scramble now central banks particularly russia has been the biggest buyer of gold really china is buying gold aggressively repatriation of gold by germany how do you interpret that. oh i think people are sort of trying to hedge their bets in as many way as possible but they know the system's going to collapse so it only seems natural to graham on something you think might be an enduring value. that they believe that the dollar reserve system if you have money system is bogus about the

collapse us whether buying gold do you agree well i mean the system is basically an imperial system i've gotten a lot of flak for say yes but i agree with michael hudson is analysis that go after bretton woods they set up this u.s. treasury bond system which essentially functions as a way of funneling tribute money into the u.s. basically to support the american military and largely it's been the countries that are under u.s. military protection or have military bases all over them that are buying this stuff so russia is one of the countries that's calling it like it is some they've said like this is this is there is no real difference to the american military power in american financial power if you want to resist one we have to resist the other now you mentioned foreign policy in a lesser ship between this money printing and the rise of the petro dollar and of course that has really been the basis for so many wars recently in the last ten or fifteen years the iraq war and afghanistan and what's happening in africa it's a mad scramble for resources and that oil industry that since nine hundred seventy

cents when the u.s. close the goal and there has been a concurrent growth in both credit and oil. liberation of the legs and on big capital and big oil of grown up together we entered into a period now where. the credit seems to be falling apart due to the banking collapse and so the money to go out there and get oil and to explore oil and to finance the war machine that goes out there to get oil is concurrently falling apart as well if the credit doesn't start to flow again then the police state the war state is going to run out of money that's what we're hoping is going to let anybody who likes peace in the world who wants to set the system right so the credible collapsing from those who are anti war anti resource crap anti imperialism absolutely do the same thing you're cheerleading the collapse of credit yeah in the form that it's taken i mean a democratization of credit so that would be peaceful that would be an alternative

to the see the part of the endless war of course has been online it appears the elite in the governments greatly fear what's happening in the digital space and of course in the digital space i don't know if you follow this or not but little bit there's an emergence of crypto currency called pick which is actually been cited by central banks as something they genuinely fear as being a threat to their monopoly another aspect of a young line emerging online world what's going on there and why i haven't been following that specifically but any zone of freedom is something that makes these people worry it's all about stifling anything that looks like it might be an alternative and especially anything that might be a democratic form of of creating money that's the danger i mean if you look at the history of america the battles been fought over and over again i mean one thing i've been looking at in my my new book the democracy project doesn't look at there is the democracy alhaji says again it's not yet is it you can't be out on the night

going to preorder this somewhere yes sure it was asked to go to the. to call the democracy and throughout my experience an occupy and how it relates to larger true democratic movements in history and and. then there you are not only known for the discretion of the occupy movements i was one of the early people involved and the occupy movement seem to lack a specific goal but here we have defined a specific goal which is to crash the credit system as a way to capitalize the war machine so why was an occupy able to make that point more clearly well i think that there was a problem in the left in general they haven't really talked about that relation between forms of money creation and military power why is that so difficult for the left to figure out because i haven't thought this is also left years about this and they idea of incorporating economics into their manifestos or platform they seem

completely. put off by that idea why is it why are the left why is the occupy movement why those people fighting the imperial. presence of america and others told us when it comes to economics i think that there are a lot of people increasingly realising that this is important just hasn't traditionally been traditionally there's been a sort of marxist emphasis on production anybody talks too much about finances or what's the structure you know. so there's been a you know tendency to pooh pooh that kind of stuff and lose and lose and then we were gave one hundred five move to the smartest people you know out there on the street and you had people like peter schiff who is just a common garden variety stockbroker able to just pick apart their arguments at will without any pushback whatsoever why do when they would be here for so obvious to make well i mean i don't know who he is debating but like we have some very good people there i don't i don't know they put him up against. a michael hansen room

why not michael hudson like a michael holmes i don't know why not. why isn't mindless and more visible in this whole movement he's got the intellectual chops or he's written the books about it he doesn't seem like these embraced by home i think people people really like michael hudson they are a lot of i don't push them up there is a meaning there are chief economist for example he could we don't have a chief economist democratic movement it's like many different people in many different points of view now like when strike debt for example now there we have an analysis that's where you go those are the people specifically dealing with that you see the thing is this is a movement a year old like what social movement has transformed the world in one year it's a long haul thing changing people's perceptions changing the way the left looks at things changing the way that ordinary people look at things changing leaves i mean it's going to take a huge process of building and we're trying to do a lot of things at once we're both trying to create a culture of democracy we're trying to make connections that people that have been making at all between you know sort of class power the one percent and government.

coercion. police state and that you know it's a it's a potent symbol that you know actual stores are being replaced all over america by these sort of glass cubicles that don't sell anything but are full of guys with guns and the perfect symbol for what america has become let's move on we have less than a minute left and swartz activist in the digital space his parents say the state killed them their thoughts well i mean it's telling isn't. that some of the brightest most creative. and most principled people in america are simply being singled out to peace destroy it and we've become a culture of sort of sheer brutal violence and sadism i call it like macho decadence you know we know we're going down believes we're tough guys about it and this seems to be the attitude anything that points towards an actual viable future it's like stomped on and that's what you know aaron was i consider him a friend he was a great guy he's news he's brilliant is principled and drove the people in charge

crazy because he made a point that people who are producing are just totally. totally frozen out of the situation's become a system of rent extraction even idea like you know you go to jail or i mean just one link in the chain but you know if i write something i don't get paid for it which is a fine but like yeah yeah yeah these are active scholarly work the scholars don't get paid for that stuff but they do have to pay to see what other scholars are saying i mean these these executives like inserted themselves in the conversations between you know intellectuals scholars and now are charging them to talk to each other i mean what could be more obscene well the phrase they're rent seeking gatekeepers or trolls exactly that that's what it is it's a rent system and so in that way what aaron was doing is exactly the same as we're doing in occupy we're just pointing out that what we've got now is a system of people who make do anything that's worthwhile to anyone but they just sort of sit there privatized things put armed guards around didn't figure out ways to like charge you for doing what other people have done and others communalism

yeah yeah it's very close i mean all right well we that's out of time we have a book it is called the democracy project coming out david graber thanks so much for the time is near to me that has a report my pleasure all right and that's all it's on we have for this edition of the kaiser a four hour with me max kaiser and stacey herbert i'd like to thank our guest david graber author of debt the first five thousand years and the newest democracy project if you'd like to contact us you can e-mail us at kaiser report r t t v dot ru or tweet us at kaiser report it's an excellent backscatter saying by a.