two people killed hundreds injured in egypt is the army intervenes to break up fierce riots in courts has happened after football violence suspects were moved between prisons. the consequences of the u.k. government's tactic of stripping passports from citizens at suspects of terrorism but has no evidence to prove it was revealed. or nukes and a growing rift with the administration dominated a meeting of america's most powerful israeli lobby well protesters outside me earlier there are other problems to deal with. and a very a joining a chorus of european regions stepping up their claims for independence saying it's done with battling the capital out of financial misery. it's eight am in moscow i'm mad as a good to have you with us here on our t.v.

our top story one police officer at least one protester killed new gyptian city of port side the army stepped in to break up clashes there leaving more than three hundred injured violence erupted over a decision to move those detained for last year's football riots to prisons outside the city this came during the u.s. secretary of state's visit for talks with president morsi that of outrage the opposition parties bell true has latest from cairo. this started so off to thirty nine defendants in this post are you trying to about this said months because it happens in february off this this post are you based football much these defendants are being moved to the families are very angry about them being relieved they gathered at the security a direct trip building and broke out between the police forces protest this of course you will see how violence in months were the naldo cities here in egypt this is after a young man was killed he was run over by a police vehicle the minister of interior saying it is a mistake for his father how to maintain two is one of the twice rights groups

reporting that a field hospital in the. political group a popular current headquarters was also attacked by police with tear gas what we're really getting is chaotic and quite violent reports across the country including here in the conflict will countries have broken out on the cornice between the government great justice and security forces were posted this is all the backdrop of the u.s. secretary of state's visit to egypt which was seen to be very unpopular here in egypt he spoke with the president today and said he would america with that pledge four hundred fifty million dollars to the country how would this is done little to peace the people i see right and have his meeting yesterday protesters gathered in front of the foreign ministry and burned pictures of john kerry saying that he was here to support the mission brotherhood and push an american interests william e. an analyst and author of the book myths lies and oil wars things washington maybe starting to realize that supporting the wrong side in egypt. i think there was

a double faced policy in washington the backing of the muslim brotherhood goes back to the cia's role in egypt and i nine hundred fifty s. when he saw the muslim brotherhood as a potentially useful tool to put in their bag of organizations that they manipulate around the world i think some people around president obama have the delusion that they could control what's basically a political islamic fascist movement so it's not a movement for democracy and he's actually the imagination at this point morsi is in a life and death struggle because the popular support is enough there for this this who and washington is beginning to get a little bit wobbly or full monty for that reason they're beginning to rethink i think that's one of the reasons for the change between hillary clinton and john kerry to bring in a new cast of people and see. what kind of options there are in egypt as for

british passport or revote which could be a death sentence reason number suggests the number of people having their passports torn up on national security grounds has soared recently on the blacklist people london suspects are linked to terrorism but doesn't have enough evidence to prosecute some of the former british nationals who often are then often allegedly detained tortured or even killed are broad let's take a closer look at british born mohamed soccer at his citizenship revoked almost three years ago he turned twenty seven was he when he was killed by a u.s. drone strike in somalia and his close friend. we came to the u.k. as a baby and grew up there was killed under the same circumstances in somalia within hours of calling his wife in london to congratulate her on the birth of their first son the same year a sudanese born british man took his four british children to a holiday in the sudan four days after leaving he was stripped of his passport and his children were prevented from growing up in the u.k. another case a british born

a family including three children were all stuck in pakistan after losing their citizenships while there two years ago let's go to london now where he's andrew farmer spoke with the person behind the investigation. well the full extent of chilling government program to rid the country of suspect terrorists has been revealed we now know that over the last three years sixteen people have had been stripped of their british passports and the grounds of national security critics claim that these suspects have little chance of a pale with human rights lawyers actually describing the whole process as mediæval and sinister well to talk more about this is chris woods from the bureau investigative journalism which actually broke this story chris with a new report it says or people are claiming that this completely ignores people's human rights and also the basic principle of innocent until proven guilty what is the evidence to support this all of these sixteen individuals have had citizenship revoked their passports canceled on the personal side of the home secretary so the

courts have had no say in this process we don't know the evidence that's been laid against these men. and even if they are able to get an appeal which is very very difficult that appeal will mostly be heard in secret and again those affected and their lawyers may never know the true extent of the evidence against them so it's a very secretive process in which the rule of law really does seem to be absent in some places and that's been commented on by judges sitting and looking at this process some of whom have raised the point that the government has waited until people have gone on family holidays for example before stepping in and removing my citizenship effectively locking the door behind people who are not only locking those affected out of the country but their families as well the children who are british or british born unable to come back into the country without separating the families and so on so this can have very serious implications far beyond the individuals affected as we know to these suspects that are actually being killed by us strange strikes is that a coincidence there's no proof yet of any direct connection between those events

but certainly people are asking questions it is clear that those people died after the certain shit was removed as part of an active targeting by the you know. and again neither of those individuals were ever charged with any offense in the u.k. we know they were accused of serious terrorist offenses but there were no charges have been laid against the government's response so far has been to say that citizenship here in the united kingdom. is a privilege and not a wrong to buy their guns but these are all cases where the government has acted because of concerns about the threats that these individuals represent the united kingdom so the home office is view they've done the right thing and sticking by their action ok chris thank you we will have to leave it there it is worth pointing out that the government has had these powers since two thousand and two well that would is this current government is really ramped up its use and over the last three years the number of cases has increased from six to twenty one and of course as we've heard the government only has to publicly justify what it's doing on the

grounds it is in the interests of national security and. london far more examples are of british american connection to last june a former london based care worker mahdi hashmi lost his citizenship and was allegedly pressured by british secret services into working as an informant after rejecting them i five's option he was reportedly secretly sent to the us where he's apparently facing terror targets we caught up with his father who says his son is being unfairly persecuted it was unexpected and shock to the whole family who are pretty sure leaves he has a pretty sick but it was one of a shock to us who had wondered how it could be like that for someone just to be this is just to be provoked like that has been moved from what he was that he was away and it was even hard for us to contact him. against the kids. that mighty he said and believe and he's a practicing muslim but being

a muslim is not being an islamist that's all i can say that's why that's why he's being victimized. and taking to the cloudless skies a vast array of planes old and new on display at an international air show in melbourne australia visit our web page for the spectacular photos plus tragedy striking eastern siberia an avalanche hits a group of teenagers one freedom self before alerting emergency services five remain missing all the details on our website r t v dot com. wealthy british science it's time to. market why not. come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's concert for

a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into kinds a report. these children. they're serving a sentence just like their mother. little ones born in prison. for the crimes committed by their parents. kill babies on our teeth. just so.

exposer war is a military action against iran coming hot and heavy at the american israel public affairs committee conference in washington israel's most ardent supporters pushing for greater u.s. backing but the meeting is drawing fire itself with protesters staging a somewhat colorful demonstration among their concerns aggressive settlement expansion in occupied palestinian land and some warmongering by netanyahu has

garnered schicchi on reports on aims and aspirations of the conference. apac is pushing for a congressional resolution that would say should israel decided to strike uganda the u.s. would give all the support including military options mosques to humane. i . have stated this time in the game and we expect. to meet this kind of a congressional green light for preemptive strike although non-binding is seen by some as a way to put more pressure on the obama administration which so far has been reluctant to see the us dragged into another war in the middle east the moonless will never abandon their nuclear efforts unless they genuinely believe that america is serious about keeping all options on the table. i many of the conference said they

thought the administration was soft on iran but that's a view that was expressed on the sidelines not from the podium but the potential of israeli nuclear defense is the only thing that's keeping the country alive not relying on america because obama has not been forthcoming in defending them against iran in fact he's been stalling apac is also pushing for legislation that would designate israel as a major strategic ally of the united states the question many ask is why does the country that's perceived as being closest to america suddenly need to come. we will now according to an n.b.c. wall street journal poll that came out just a few days ago fifty five percent of americans now no longer want any sort of preference between either side of the israeli palestinian conflict the lobby may view this is a chance particularly in the face of sequestration where there could be cut just across the board almost two hundred million dollars they could view this as a last chance to tie in support. despite your agency of the

subject the conflict with the palestinians has received considerably less attention at the summit then iran but the general impression here is that what's widely regarded as the most influential lobby in the american politics has detected a potential threat not just from israel's neighbors but from inside washington itself. in the wake of two wars in a battered economy we see signs of an increasing decided to disengage from world events and focus inward. this growing your earning to untangle from what is perceived as too complicated a world effects both parties conservatives and liberals alike they just want out. for israel even the tendency toward isolationism is extremely dangerous refusing to speak on camera some of the delegates expressed frustration over the president's decision to nominate chuck hagel as defense secretary chuck hagel is

known to have been critical of the pro israel lobby president obama will not be speaking at the apac conference this year but he'll be traveling to israel at the end of the month and one of the speakers here said it's going to be a real challenge for him to show that deep down and i quote him he really understands israel under threats that it faces that gives an impression that the apac is not too happy about the administration seemingly trying to play down the war talk in washington i'm going to check on. lack of a widespread appetite for a strike on iran may be the only the latest in a series of reversals for apac according to political analysts robert naiman from just foreign policy there is a lot of believe the. israel lobby is losing the clout. they have had a series of reversals pushing the election the reelection of obama was a reversal where the israeli go clearly need clearly in we want to be reelected

with their backing then their candidate for secretary of state was susan rice she was our john kerry. didn't want john kerry so that was your second defeat and then just had the spectacular defeat the nomination and confirmation of this sent to the is just so for a number of personal and one hand they're losing khloponin the other their agenda is getting more stream and more radical these two things that used to be used to be very careful to try and project a bipartisan image republican and democrats but increasingly openly advocating. dad a lot of democrats don't want to be so. explosive temper spoils libya's business plans coming out the country stops and gas exports to italy after a fierce firefight between rival groups for the right to guard a plant. but first varia joins catalonia and scotland in

stepping toward separate is a many politicians there think germany's largest state may be better off going it alone complaining it's forced to hand over too much cash to a poor relation berlin archy's peter all over looks at how far above areas ready to go. to germany unified twenty three years ago but the critics are showing in at least one of its regions void. we want an independent state of bavaria this is an extraordinary aim there are twelve million by variance if independent we could be the ninth biggest nation in the e.u. with the fifth largest annual economic turnover i'm convinced we have the cultural historical and economic strength to survive the bavaria polities campaign literature certainly doesn't pull any punches when it comes to showing how they believe the rest of germany treats the southern state the group poses little threat to germany's political big guns it took just over one percent of the vote locally

in two thousand and eight but their ideas are spreading and increasingly influential circles. to predict when i look at the map of europe and of history i see that boundaries are not made to last forever they can be moved by free people czechoslovakia made the peaceful transition into two democratic states in two thousand and fourteen scotland will have a referendum there is work being done in catalonia this movement is happening in europe today. the varia is booming when it comes to business it's home to some of the most recognizable and expensive brands in the world b.m.w. audi. and siemens have their base of operations here while munich is one of the world's major economic centers all contributing to an annual income of almost half a trillion euro a major factor which sticks in the craw of the variance is how about wealth is

distributed throughout the federal states they're sick of paying for poor berlin it hands over around three billion euros a year to the capital what impact would an independent bavaria have apartment the lives of those living and working there to find out i've come here to the beautiful bavarian countryside to speak through a very keen on independence yossef farm produces bio gas suffered he diversified from dairy you know generates electricity from local homes definitely a case of where there's muck there's money but it's where his tax cash goes that's concerning him more than the smell he always darkest secrets were completely and represented in germany on our own we would be a good size european state all we are now are the financier's of berlin and others . and there's more at stake than just money for one of europe's oldest

states. since reunification there's been too much number of very an influence on us i want my kids to grow up feeling very culturally linguistically no one learns the bulgarian language in school we want to change that. when germany's unity day celebrations get underway in the old some nice is might find that here in the largest states. weighs down upon seeing these are all of the very. very not of some other stories making headlines across the globe a massive car bomb has gone off outside a mosque in the pakistani city kharaj killing at least forty five people injuring many more police say one hundred kilos of explosives were used ripping through several buildings and setting fire to others no group has yet claimed responsibility the shia population in the city is often targeted by sunni muslim

groups. fifty thousand people protest in the cities across the area marking national liberation day angry they say at the rising cost of living and political corruption former prime minister boyko border assault was forced to quit last wednesday under public pressure and new elections planned for early next month rolling demonstrations have grown into a backlash against the entire political system. in south africa a policeman on video dragging a man through the streets handcuffed to a police van are due to appear in court charged with his murder a man from mozambique where you can see in this video died from head injuries and internal bleeding the taxi driver was arrested for parking his car illegally pictures of sparked outrage in south africa after they were broadcast on television . british cardinal keith o'brien has admitted to sexual misconduct seventy four year old who resigned last week apologised effectively acknowledged. he'd broken the catholic church's rule banning homo sexual relationships he's the highest

placed member of their church in recent history to have made such an admission or brian won't attend the conclave that will select the next pope stay with us for more and debate show cross talk that takes a long hard look at religious belief and its relationship with atheism many people refer to religion they refer to it as organized religion and that's a big problem with atheism and why you can't refer to atheism as a religion because there's no real organization to it it's like having a meeting of anarchists certainly an enemy that's how do you know it's. going to doesn't matter because they don't want to vote on it has but you know they do not very well they don't want to vote on anything and i i think i guess i might list myself as as an atheist but i i like to think that hopefully there's some kind of higher power but i don't want to look at it in the classical way of some some god like guy saying you know that rob driving down the cross bronx expressway the day's going to get a car accident break his arm i mean that's that's

a real religious extremism but i just think the big problem right now in our in this country's specifically and in the world is what religion has always polarized us and separated us into war and support and caused wars. libya's been forced to halt gas exports to italy after a deadly gunfight between two armed groups in the northwest the shooting broke out over an argument between the militias over who should guard a major plant conflicts like this if you come regular post revolution i mean you know me as a kiwi from the pan-african newswire things libyan stability has fallen victim to western energy interests. some nine billion cubic meters of natural gas from libya is export it to italy constitutes eleven percent of the

national supply of natural gas to that country and now western europe and i think this is a reflection of the fact that there is this codependency between the former colonial power of italy and libya they are attempting in many ways to productize the natural gas as well as the oil industry inside of libya of course the majority of libyans are suffering immensely as a result of this post gadhafi political configuration and as we've seen the clashes between the various militia groups as well as the so-called army that is still simply out of the control of the general national congress is still not going to situation where it could actually bring about stability. next latest edition of our debate show crosstalk stay with us here at r.t. .

well. it's technology innovation all the developments from around russia we've got the future covered. mission free credit case free. for charges free to make amends three. hero type free. old free blog just plug in video for your media project a free meal dogcart dot com. me

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oh in welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle atheism a religion that has a specific worldview and even a value system what accounts for the spectacular loss of faith in much of the western world and secularism captured much of christianity is message without the organizational trappings and dogma and support of the same rights as people of faith. to cross-talk atheism and religion i'm joined by jason torpy in washington he is the president of the military association of atheists and freethinkers in quebec we

have loans to stele he is the president of the creation science association of quebec and in new york we cross to rob he is a writer and comedian cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage you jason. atheism a new religion for the west. atheism simply means lacking a belief in a higher power so if so if that's what you're talking about then of course not it's a simple expression of one's have one's own personal beliefs which is more feeling than anything if you're talking about something like humanism which is a positive expression of seeing the world through the lens of science having human flourishing as a highest value understanding ethics and you know rational approach to the world that goes along with that and making your own media one line of prince between the two that's often went to different and what's the difference between the two is there any meaningful difference so the meaningful difference is that atheism is a simple war with the simple definition of

a lack of belief not even necessarily something that rises to the level of denying all other religions but simply a lack of belief in a higher power in the same reason a christian doesn't believe in vishnu or hindu or vishnu or a law we don't believe in any of those in any of those other other. deities but if you actually build a building beyond that dedicated belief in a higher power you know in a higher human flourishing and you bill build out from that a system of ethics and an approach to the world then i think that you know that equally to religion even though it's fundamentally different in several ways ok lawrence i notice you already want to jump in go ahead yeah atheism means it's latin for without god or you're refusing the possibility of a theistic approach. there's some logical problems with just addressing that it's not just to deny or saying we do we don't it it's saying there isn't a theistic back. backbone to creation or to whatever surrounds us in nature

and so it's more of a position and the problem with atheism i see is that it requires someone to know that anywhere in the whole universe there isn't a god there isn't proof theistic process and that's impossible because our knowledge is so small in terms of the universe that we couldn't possibly pronounce ourselves and saying we know that nowhere in the whole universe is no such thing as a theistic there's no such thing as a god now if jason was to say he was agnostic and was saying well i just don't know if there is a god that i would understand better but atheism is a position that it puts itself against theistic position it's the antithesis of a theistic position now i must say this i still believe it's a it's a belief system because you everybody has to believe one of two things either you believe in an eternal god or you believe in internal matter you only have the two choices and either way you're looking at such international doubt has earned the i'm sorry got it jump in there isn't a something it's belief it's a point of the program jason your head. i don't know if you want to call it so

these are the ultimate it's all going to let me go to. reply go ahead we'll go to rob go ahead so lauren lauren said specifically you must believe in god or you must believe in a purely naturalistic world and that's a false dichotomy it's a logical fallacy he also says. he also put forth that atheists have the position that we are holding that there is no god no matter what i already said it's a lack of belief if you approach the world in a problem in a proper manner the burden of proof is on the person making the positive assertion the positive assertion is the extraordinary claim that there is a magical being in the sky that created the entire world that is the one that has the burden of proof you know lawrence and other religious people have to prove that to others otherwise the only logical position to have the only intellectually. only position of intellectual integrity is to reserve. is to not accept a position that has not been proven ok rob now go ahead please do as an atheist take a position. ok well first of all when many people refer to religion they refer to

it as organized religion and that's a big problem with atheism and and why you can't refer to atheism as a religion because there's no real organization to it it's like having a meeting of anarchists generally and an i pad how did know is that i don't have it wrong and it doesn't matter because they don't want to vote yes has but you know they don't not very well they don't want to vote on anything and i i think i guess i might list myself as as an atheist but i i like to think that hopefully there's some kind of higher power but i don't want to look at it in the classical way of some some god like guy saying you know that rob taubes driving down the cross bronx expressway the day's going to get a car accident break his arm i mean that's that's a real religious extremism but i just think the big problem right now in our in this country's specifically and in the world is what religion has always polarized us and separated us and torn us apart and caused wars and it's too structured

a belief system and too regimented and i also think that religion is losing step in this country especially because people are not motivated to follow religious leaders but rather follow sports figures or religious leader lawrence jump and that's a very good only i don't mean it's going to lawrence is going to lawrence first go ahead i mean if we take if we have that can't be true if you take a look at all the. gallup polls that are done over the last twenty years over fifty percent of the american and canadian i'm canadian so i'm afraid that the comparison population also believe in a young earth under ten thousand years another thirty five percent believe that god created man to eighty five percent of the population is theist. i'm sorry i know that fifteen percent of the population is controlling the media or perhaps the educational system but eighty five percent of the population is theist in the us and in canada and certainly i don't see an atheistic. president in the us at. coming to power they have to go for the religious vote because it's such

a powerful vote in the u.s. it is less so in canada but such a powerful vote in the u.s. so i don't understand what rob was saying i do know this though that it's maybe not as easy as you think mention that it just wasn't really all that you know what i mean it's more than a century that it wasn't rational to believe in a creator but it's the most rational thing in the world to believe in a creator if i have a computer naturally no one is going to be i think i can turn eighteen year old ok all right jason intelligent it's go to jail it's going to jason go ahead fair time . yes so the first thing we don't want to do is have another logical fallacy of appealing to the majority no matter how many think how many people believe in a certain thing that doesn't make it true or false but i can recognize rob's criticism of the humanist community and the organized atheist community the ones that have that live according to their values and have deeply held beliefs they care very much about that we build communities and families around you know not to have an advertisement the military association of atheism freethinkers american humanist association the internationally missed an ethical union the american

ethical union the society for humanistic judaism these are all organized groups that have come together and are trying to build communities communities of values to help people not only to know that how not only to know the facts and the values of humanism but also to live communities in an atheistic lifestyle even if they don't necessarily label themselves that humanism or agree with every single thing they can come together and say we only under you know we understand the world through the lens of science we care very much about humanity and the advancement of humanity and we are going to build these organizations not in a hierarchical dogmatic way but in a loving caring and compassionate way and those communities are out there so when you go out and look at the look for those communities you will find them if you if you just look around for human it's communities and even atheist communities meetup dot com or google or or any of these modern technology you look around for road canada the u.s. australia afghanistan if i go to rob those are noble ideas what's wrong with them

you don't need religion to believe in the things i think most people would agree with what jason had to say well let me jump in on that what i think is interesting is i was raised as a jew i'm not practicing i was bar mitzvah and my grandfather was bar mitzvah but he came to the united states from russia and he had where the tallest villain and he pretty much i don't see one and say we're not is judaism but he never really want to synagogue anymore but he used to talk to me of the the bible and he gave me an interesting comparison. he used to also read grimm's fairy tales to me and stories that all had a moral lesson and some kind of parable and he used to say as long as that's what the bible is like it's telling him tales of more ality doesn't mean they're true and i think that the big problem especially with christianity more so is they tend to literalize everything the do one thing i do like about judaism is it teaches tell musically and it teaches through stories and parables and moral lessons like

that and someone tells you you're going to be smote or that you have to pray to an actual existing deity which is one other reason why it's not a popular religion i think one of the big ironies of judaism it's a very liberal religion if you're born into it the big difficulty is if you if you want to convert to judaism then make it nearly impossible whereas if you want to create convert to christianity it's like ok sign this raise your hand and say i'm a christian a good if you're at. war it's going to jump but it is really going to go to school for like sixty years even if your idea years old you know they're going to toss a ball for you ok but when it's good. yes somewhere in here we've lost your initial question which was whether atheism is the new religion. and i think that i don't first of all i don't think it's a new religion and yes i agree with jason that humanism is perhaps the religious manifestation of atheism but my point is that all humans as individuals are religious beings they all believe in something the knowledge only goes so far so

they have to use a belief or a face system somewhere and where it concerns the origins of things and the universe origin themselves where we come from whatever reason for being in the universe and where we're going these are all religious questions that human suppose i don't think dogs do i don't think any other end life form does i'm a communication is limited with my dog but he doesn't seem to think to abstractly and so i would i will go with that yes we are looking at an atheistic religion i do i must say one thing though i would i would. i would i would keep away from the idea that religion is the the bane of all existence and the opiate of the people and it's a problem everywhere that religion has its problems because people have their problems just as atheism has its problems i mean we can't say that stalin pol pot amal were christian a religious in any way they were communists atheists and they killed more people than all the wars put together. up to that stage and i'm not doing

a competition i'm not saying that anything bad is good because something bad is bad i'm just saying how many people did the crusades and heartlessly all right we're all going to go back to you here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on atheism and religion stay with r.t. . the new super secret laboratory to mccurdy was able to build a new most sophisticated robots which will unfortunately doesn't give a dollar amount anything to ends mission to teach creation why it should care about humans and. this is why you should care only on the.

wealthy british style stock. market why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max cause or for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into kaiser report on our. download the official up location to your cell phone choose your language stream quality and enjoy your favorites. if you're away from your television just doesn't matter how would your mobile device you can watch on t.v. anytime anywhere.

was the envy of ambrose. put his trust in anyone and rightly so. his body was found on the floor of his human. towels. did he die of. cool's is. the mystery of stone still. the documentary. choose your language. make it with zero if they still. choose the the concerns to. choose the opinions that invigorating to.

choose the stories that imply life choose be access to your office. welcome back to cross talk all things considered i'm peter lavelle to mind who we're talking about whether atheism is a religion. ok rob i'm going to go back to you in the middle of a pearl of wisdom go right ahead well i was saying that just because you're at a desk pot like pol pot or stalin is has nothing to do with religion it's more about political tyranny there is political tyranny from the ayatollah khomeini who

was wildly religious so you can't say that a godless country is going to produce morally you know bad people and i was also adding that when we're talking about wars and slaughter the crusades were pretty bad the the irish and the the english seem to be fighting over religion for years and then there was this thing called the spanish inquisition that wasn't very nice to my people another thing i want to point out about religion organized religion that i find flabbergasting to me is the intractability of religious groups i mean the catholics wonder why their popularity is waning that the pope who left today was still telling people in africa not to wear condoms harboring pedophiles and putting together rules and regulations that are going to recall regulations but just ludicrous rules that date back hundreds of years that are just not in keeping with modern times so of course they're going to lose followers ok lawrence i think

you should respond here because you're the only man out here so good lawrence for us. i appreciate that. actually i agree with what was just said i'm not too fond of religion myself it's usually used to manipulate control groups . i'm more into a relationship if there is a living god then i would believe it's possible to have a relationship with god and that's a very personal thing i can be done in groups but it's always a personal relationship that's the whole evangelical christian community thinks that way but i would have i would have to agree with what i said i think religion is a bad thing in fact if you remember in terms of christianity it is the religious people that got jesus crucified ok jason very interesting point go right ahead well i just want to be ok the point is that. i was on a television show a couple of years ago a number of years ago and president bush was still president he was saying god the lord told me to do something and i found that really horrible and offensive so that night on a particular show i said well you know god spoke to me the other day and he told me

to stop eating green peppers and the host was outraged at this it was like god will never tell you that i'd like well how do you believe president bush was told by god to go bomb somebody white why can't god tell me to stop eating something that's causing me severe gas you know and it's bizarre we have this crazy belief system that's going to not it's going to tell somebody in power to do something crazy but he's not going to speak to the to the masses jason jumping on those guys like me. yeah when i think i think one of the important things that we need to hit on this show when we talk about atheism versus religion or even humanism versus traditional religious values is one of the fundamental differences is this dogmatic in here is to belief this celebration that because i believe something that is inherently a good thing you know this insistence that i should take evidence and if it fits what i look at if it fits what i believe already i should celebrate that if that it doesn't fit i should call it the devil and put it aside this rejection of reality

in favor of preconceived notions is the most dangerous part of religion that is something that is absolutely rejected by all non-theistic beliefs and practices especially humanism so it's very important to understand that as we look at religious people as we do interfaith alliances and atheist religious alliances if we try to wake the world a better place what we need to be on both sides of the equation most vigilant against is those pitfalls that are most dangerous and that celebration of ignorance over evidence and celebration of myth over reality that's something that we need to be most most concerned about and it's one of the biggest differences between humanistic beliefs and practices and and some of the you know some of the traditional religious values and some of the expressions of those traditional beliefs lawrence you want to you're disagreeing there go ahead please that we suddenly have transcript of what i say again with dogmatically. lawrence go ahead. dogmatic atheists are dogmatic about their position concerning evolution evolution

is the basis of their religion it's the at least the evolutionary theory of hedging to human theory is the basis they have to because as i said before you either believe in something supernatural or you believe in eternal natural and so the they stick to the natural trouble is the evidence for evolution isn't there he says how many times i hear jason just say that anybody that doesn't think like him must be irrational must be someone who believes in myths and not reality well i'm sorry i'm a scientist a geneticist and i don't i don't believe in through evolution because i don't see it happening frogs don't become princes in one hundred fifty years in any hundred fifty million years in my lab i don't see it in the fossil record i don't see any evidence for what the evolution is supporting aside from microevolution large changes going from bacteria human just aren't there that's a belief system so it's wrong to say that they. are not dogmatic about something they're definitely dogmatic about their position concerning natural reason because jason has been on this whole show jason you want to reply to that please do so because it was a joy so i don't think it's a result not of what is there.