what the devil. don't mention it their name to a vietnam vet for example i made the mistake of saying that name to my uncle who is in vietnam they don't like them but you know in that before the supreme court in this case the supreme court justices did seem very favorable to month santo and why in the world chief justice john g. roberts jr asked would anybody spend any money to try to improve the seed if i soon as they sold the first one anybody could grow more and have as many of those seeds as they want right of course you mentioned the vietnam war in reference to the agent orange that they used to defoliate and that's the primary their business is to destroy a culture and they can do so by passing seas and by gaming the intellectual property laws then so much better and of course the other magical thinking that goes into monsanto's mind is that when the seeds blow around thanks to the wind they land on people's property they then sue people for having seeds on their

property that are patented by monsanto that the wind blew there so effectively monsanto is suing god their position is that god is a moron according to monsanto which i guess is in keeping in today's world of retiring popes and other things that are going on well the sheer fact is by chief justice roberts argument we humans would still be hunting gathering why the hell would we even bother to plant seeds and cultivate and go through all that work if nobody was going to pay us to do it right because this is adding to the public domain this is adding to the public's knowledge this is adding to our experience as human beings what chief justice knucklehead is saying is that every time he farts he wants to get paid for it because he has the d.n.a. of his fart the question in this case this farmer the seventy six year old farmer from indiana he's ok with the notion of copyright and life and copywriting genes and now month sento basically only. the entire soybean supply in all of america

they have ninety three percent of the market because they innovated a little tiny fragment of the gene so essentially they've been awarded the patent for all soybean seeds because they own the entire supply right and it's a vertical devastation in that they also sell fertilizers that only work with their patented products they sell various other extensions and brand extensions and intellectual property extensions that only work with monsanto as product there is their hardcore monopoly which are drive prices up in india where monsanto's active and they've been it belated in and patented seeds you've got something like two thousand indian farmers committing suicide it could be every week so a number of that hide magnitude and that'll be the case of farmers around the world of months until has their way i'm sure that goldman sachs will package suicide farmer collateralized debt obligations and make additional money on farmers killing themselves the automatic earth says for ten thousand to twenty thousand years

people all over the world have been improving agricultural crops and multiple ways changing plants from their wild origins to their present domesticated versions one of the most important changes obviously has been to make it easier to save seeds and plant these in the new year for the next harvest no mean feat monsanto now simply takes all of this away in just a few years time with impunity and with encouragement from the u.s. government and supreme court right i mean it's important to keep in mind that they're not as agricultural innovators they're agricultural monopolists that's a big difference there anti competition there anti agriculture they're trying to turn seeds into a currency and they want to monopolize that currency and they're doing a great job doing it of course the supreme court which is now heavily favored toward corporations will go along with this scheme and the net result will be higher prices and starvation and of course because like blankfein and goldman sachs they believe they're doing god's work well look down from their my position of

intellectual property mount olympus and just say well you died you started that you deserved it and were monsanto to hell with you. to put that into context this copyright in the control of the food system a study by the center for food safety found that fifty three percent of the world's commercial seed market is controlled by just three firms monsanto dupont and said gent right that's not competition anyone who argues on behalf of monsanto is arguing against free markets they're arguing against competition they're arguing against agriculture as something that is to some degree human right that people have been cultivating crops for thousands of years and yet that that embedded knowledge now is being decimated by a predatory monopolist in the form of monsanto for predatory profits which they will use to influence peddling washington to extend their their monopoly in areas other than just agriculture because of course are in bed with that other that other

sick whacko bill gates who is a huge investor in monsanto look at he did with the software industry and microsoft has destroyed it well microsoft is actually coming up in this next headline here because they're involved in this case they've issued their own statements regard in support of him and centrist position but before we go on to that i want to mention that the automatic earth asks and if a farmer cannot own his seeds what about his animals what if my santa figures out a gene variation that limits your own personal risk of a disease say cancer does it own you out right then or will it only give you the choice between becoming a death slave or dying young well they argue for private property rights and i would say that there's a difference between private property rights and monopolies you know you need monopolies and free competition don't exist harmoniously and this is a play for monopolizing this industry in a way that not only is anti-competitive but it's it's anti human it's borderline you genesis them is what it is you have to go back to experiments of eugenics to

find something as abhorrent as a monsanto and what they're doing with seeds so earlier you brought up microsoft so i want to get back to them because if my ten toes wins this. in front of the supreme court an important precedent has been set for other areas regarding copyright this is from bloomberg monsanto j.c. penney else of their intellectual property and in this they talk about the case before the supreme court february nineteenth a decision comes down in june b.s.a. the software alliance whose members include apple and microsoft told the court that eliminating patent protection for self replicating seeds could facilitate software piracy research universities and biotechnology companies say a victory by bowman would harm their ability to license their work in cancer research crop protection and nutrition well the supreme court

is is shockingly on the side of eugenics in this case. d.n.a. works by making a copy of itself that is the fundamental basis of human life of all life on this planet here you want monsanto and microsoft to say no to life they want to own replication and to only intellectual property for all copying down to the level of seeds and and zygotes of human reproduction and the ability for cells to reproduce to heal if you get cut and your body starts to heal itself microsoft will say well we own the patent on the d.n.a. that you're using against our patent to heal you have to send us the checks or then will release a version of the pad but only if you agree with us politically only to support our a continuation become fully integrated monopolies if you don't they don't get the

cure you're going to die well regarding this notion that they own the rights to life finally on this story the automatic earth sums up our right to feed our children has been made subordinate to the right of chemical companies to change the very food we count on to keep our children fed to top it all off that modern food industry claims that it alone provides the necessary tools without which our children would go hungry god's work indeed makes you wonder what keeps the devil occupied these days but they have succeeded in alienating people from themselves and the people are so confused they don't know anymore what the what they represent as human beings anymore they're stressed out there on drugs or eating month genetically modified food they're dying life expectancy is decreasing and monsanto and bill gates are laughing all the way to the bank and now finally regarding that bloomberg headline i mentioned else affair and this is the company of course for which aaron swartz died because he was downloading this taste or documents and read

else if there is one of these companies that hold all this intellectual property from various public entities whether schools. or court systems so a federal judge in new york dismissed a copyright infringement case two attorneys brought against newton massachusetts based reed elsevier and west publishing corporation edward l. white of oklahoma city of new york sued in february two thousand and twelve claiming that the publication of their court filings in west litigator and also his lexis nexis legal database infringe their copyrights they jacked it to the commercial use of this they were doing their job in court reed elsevier was taking their content and selling it behind putting it behind a copyright wall even though the courts the federal courts are financed by we the people and they make a profit from it and the courts decide and of course the favor of the major corporation time for another number but i'm up there bill gates alonso have to open up a trap door. i stays ever thanks watch me on the guys report humans don't go away much

mark coming away stay right there. these children are in. there serving a sentence just like their mother. little ones born in prison. now must pay for the crimes committed by their parents. babies on our teeth.

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welcome back to the kaiser report imax keyser time out to go out to washington d.c. and speak with eric hilton of favorite corp a washington d.c. based recording artist and d.j. duo eric reached out to kaiser report the clan just his favorite show to debate my position on copyright and file sharing eric welcome to the kaiser report thanks max nice to be here all right eric hilton you wrote to made a tell me you were against my position on copyright so tell us about your position on copyright and so called illegal downloading or as some call are calling it file

sharing what is your position well my position is that you know file sharing is here to stay and people are going to file share but there's a lot of money to be made on file sharing and you know like the who said same as it meet the new boss same as the old boss the i s p's and google and you tube are the ones making all the money on the file sharing and the artists are really suffering right now and i don't think that music is free i think that the more money may be made off music now than ever before but it's being made by the i is t's google you tube and i think that you know the one percent is just getting richer and the one percent now is the sort of techno feudalistic system that basically making money off free music ok well at the root of this file sharing debate it goes back to copyright and copyright law and there are those who believe that

there should not be any copyright law at all there are those up believe there should be a much more limited copyright law perhaps fourteen years or twenty eight years as it was originally written in the the american constitution and then of course you have the copyright. as interpreted by corporations like there's a which is lifetime plus seventy five years of copyright protection protection where do you fall in terms of copyright law what do you believe should be the correct law for copyright i think you'd be surprised that our views on copyright are fairly similar i think there should be limited copyright probably the original statute in the constitution i think the disney ruling was pretty ridiculous. you know you shouldn't have lifetime plus seventy years you know copyright is important i do believe there is copyright i mean even noam chomsky copyright says material you know many people believe in copyright but it can be very oppressive and i don't

agree with the disney decision at all right so we have some common common ground here in terms of copyright as it's currently in aerated is what lawrence lessig would call perpetual copyright and it's extremely damaging to artists because what happens is that ideas end up being perpetually locked up behind corporate firewalls and this isn't doing anybody any good so i mean it seems as though we agree on that's not part of this of this debate well i absolutely agree but i think that art is sometimes make very foolish decisions like signing to a major label like one of the reasons we call ourselves thievery corporation is that we're a d.i.y. company we never signed to a major label we own our copyrights we set up our own distribution networks and we financed everything we bootstrapped it and financed everything for a self we never sold our souls to any major label or any large corporation we're

we're sort of a mom and pop you know four man operation with an engineer and we pay health care and salaries you know so we're definitely not the enemy you know we're not we're not warner brothers we're not one of the big major labels trying to restrict copyright. for you know perpetuity ok now in your email to me you mentioned the ramones you're saying while the remount would never have happened had they tried to start their band in a post a bit torrent era not so this someone on our site named bill asked the question well what about all the talented musicians that we never heard of because they couldn't make it through the old music system so there's a bit of a quid you know it goes both ways there your thoughts both through the old music system was very corrupt so i actually agree with you that you know i'm not a big fan of the major labels obviously but a band like the ramones or the sex pistols or the clash or any of these bands public enemy that we love and adore or at least i do they needed the support of the

label because basically they would toward a loss because most bands even today tour at a loss and they tour so that they can generate sales of their records but if there are no sales you can't tours so you can't even get off the ground it's kind of like a plane that can gain altitude and you know i know that the ramones signed the fire records in the late seventy's and sawyer put a lot of money behind them to tour and they toured and then they sold records and then they recoup that money and i hope they made some money when you signed to a major label that's a crap shoot you know i would never do it but you know you really can't get off the ground without some sort of tour support it's really expensive the tour now of course going back thirty forty years we gave music away free on something called the radio and played by just jockeys and you can hear it in your car for a fray and then you went out and bought a record of that song and now we've got digital replication of the stands people

come by i tunes are bypassing that completely they're just downloading music for free but the economics are that you still have the ability to get new acts out there on a relatively cheap basis. who are then touring and getting their music heard and a lot of musicians are making a living that would not have made a living before at all i don't know i would have to agree with you with the radio but the when you get music played on radio ascap or b.m.i. actually quite correct collect some sort of performance royalty and you actually get paid but on the internet that's not really the case and you know you look at companies like you know here we have a big guy a species in washington everyone has giant i have these you have google they're making hand over fist money but there's really no royalty for the artist so the real content on the internet you look at a site like pirate bay which you know i think that was a brilliant idea but really pirate bay and the torrent sites are trading mostly in

creative content like something like ninety nine percent or a very large portion of that content is film and music and there is really no royalty structure so you know essentially artists are are in the sort of surf like you know lifestyle right now and least the radio generates some royalty for the artist but the internet isn't generating any royalty for the artist are let's talk about another entrepreneur cam dot com in new zealand he will soon launch his service called mega box now this is a site for artists to upload their content they will keep ninety percent of all revenues earned. his site mega upload at one point he had five percent of the global traffic he was considered to be a threat to the our i am the m.t.a. and they took his site down but he's coming back with

a mega box the model as artist keep ninety percent of any revenues earned your thoughts. i think it's a great idea he also sold a lot of ad revenue if i'm not mistaken i'm not sure if he's shared any of that ad revenue with the artists. and i'm not really familiar with any quote unquote copyright infringement but any new paradigm is very welcome to me and other artists we don't see technology as the enemy we see technology as the solution right now we're on the wrong side of it you know i do think that we're being exploited by the i s p's and the search engines but i do think that technology will be the solution and so you know i'm very open to ideas like that now let's talk a minute about the recording industry association of america the our i am a it's a vengeful lobbyist for big music your thoughts on their actions and similar intellectual property lobbying groups that have passed three strikes laws around

the world so they are i a they are extremely aggressive they sue their customers they supposedly represent you the artist what are your thoughts out what they're doing well they don't represent me because they were represent the major labels and certainly they don't represent the artists i'm not sure the major labels even represent the artists and i'm also very embarrassed to have the backdrop of the white house behind me right now because i'm not speaking in any official position i'm not a fan of the r i a very much disagree with their attempts at prosecuting individual downloader as i see that as something akin to the drug war where you go out and you arrest the kid with a small bag of weed but you don't bust the dealer i mean they're really attacking the wrong people and their tactics are wrong and i don't agree with them. so eric elton is thievery corporation is eric hilton taking a political position against onerous copyright law i guess i am max maybe won

me over. ok fair enough but i think where we do we agree and that there is room for a copyright monopoly protection for a limited time possibly as it was structured in the constitution united states anyways twenty eight years but let's talk a little bit about the fact about these business models because you've suggested that new technology. could be the solution new business models could be and the dot coms model looks like it's going to be a big winner for him. but nevertheless what about the studies that show that downloader of free stuff actually end up spending more on content more than other people do now this was demonstrated in france when they had dopey three strikes law saw illegal downloads decline but record sales declined even more i

guess the question is that is there room any room at all for free stuff on the web because us as an artist at some point and this is what the creative commons is very good at the lawrence lessig and eric schwartz project you do want to give some stuff away free there is a structure to protect it is a room for that at all aaron absolutely i do think there is a file sharing in its core is is a wonderful thing you know david byrne said something though that i think is pretty pression he said when you share a file or a cd with your friend that's actually sharing but when you just upload entire catalogs of music you know into a torrent site for free so that everyone can just take from them that's almost like like looting you know that goes a little bit far and if you look at actually the large uploader is of music on the

torrent sites usually it's only a few people it might be in the hundreds that that upload giant. catalogs of music if it's just peer to peer person to person hey i like this record they're talking they're communicating i don't have a problem with that that's just that's friendly fire file sharing and i do think they're there always will be file sharing and they should not be persecuting the young people and it is mostly young people because maybe they can even afford the music i've been there you know when i was a kid i spent most of my discretionary income which wasn't very much on records and you know it it did make me broke i did get a lot of great music from it too but i understand why people do it but at the same time we can't just create a culture of free stuff because artists are sort of the canary in the coal mine and i do agree i really think that there is this sort of techno gulag being created and if you ever look at the history of like fascist takeovers the first people to go

are the dissidents and the artists and when the artists can't make a living and they have to go you know work as a barista or something other than their craft you know you are you are suppressing art ok eric hilton we're out of time thanks for coming on the show again soon thanks for coming on kaiser report thanks max i'm going to continue to enjoy your show and part of the silver liberation army right on all right and that's going to do it for this edition of the kaiser report with me max kaiser and stacy herbert and i thank my guests eric hilton of thievery corp just i mean email please do so at kaiser report r.t. t.v. dot are you until next time x. guys are saying bio.

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