and then continuing scandals. we spoke to a lot of. especially as a lot of analysts are actually specialists on religion and they said the church is in crisis and they have listed numerous reasons for why that is happening like that or leaks or corruption scandals and they just said basically it needs a major major organization so francis really has a lot of things to work out and to go out. and his position what it does and how and if you're going to sort of change this tarnished image it really is a tarnished actually yes well you could say that he's kind of making the first step because he has met with journalists already and that is something that none of the popes have ever done before so he's kind of making a step in that direction but yes you have to understand that the media has actually played an important part in making in sort of perpetuating these scandals especially the tell the media they have had a field day with a lot of they have done their research they have actually broken several scandals and that is how that really came around in front of the what is it wasn't that we understand compiled by three cardinals even saying that they may be some kind of

network of paedophiles within or near to the vatican to the serious stuff and it was the vatileaks that has actually spurned on the report because after finding out about the vatileaks after the scandal broke out pope benedict the sixteenth has actually ordered this investigation to take place and there were three cardinals who did it and reportedly according to the italian media he was presented with this report on december seventeenth which also happened to be the day when he announced that he is going to resign so they are tying it all together and saying that that's precisely because of the allegations allegations of the so-called gay ring within the vatican itself which are which is kind of ironic considering that homosexuality is. a mortal sin by the catholic church what about the church's finances there because francis now saying he wants a poor church for people that sort of thing but it's quite rich organization absolutely i mean look at the pictures it's absolutely grandiose and beautiful but yes it does have a lot of money and part of the vatileaks scandal. actually surrounded the major

corruption scandals the vatileaks focused on the power struggles which were happening inside syria which is the congregation of cardinals and it was also focusing on potential ties with this is still in mafia according to. according to some journalist according to the information which was leaked in that it leaks these some of the caliber some of the cardinals were involved in this model on during the scheme where they have actually laundered money from this is the mafia through the bank of vatican which is supposed to be you know above all of the city and you can say it is a catholic church complete as it were. with the rising. number of muslims in recent years has grown by an estimated ninety percent whereas the number of catholics in europe has grown just by five percent and they're actually predicting that by twenty thirty the growth of muslim population will surpass the number of hundred fifty percent a large part of criticism actually comes from people saying that. the catholic

church is and is and it's struggling with indemnity it's not catching up to the times yes atheism is definitely one of the major problems for for catholics right now but there is also issues such as. wars again homosexuality premarital sex all of that is something that a lot of specialists in the area are saying francis now has to look at and take some steps if he wants to keep the catholic church. the overwhelming majority of folks voted yes to being british in a referendum on monday which claims the u.k. has stolen the on and labelled the poll of force but london was quick to capitalise to respect the people's will something the u.k. government has failed to do elsewhere the sort of further explained. this is the story of an island a proud and spirited people displaced and

a government he put it devastatingly high price paradise shockingly for many it will be the first time the stories ever being heard. live to each other and. we discovered. we had. is a british colony in the indian nation and the largest of the chaebol silent as a population of a thousand people about the same as the. good memories. there you go it's a home a real paradise today they da gusty is one of america's biggest military advices because we it's our land. it's not for them. you know when you see them you got this anger because they are enjoying the island. we

are suffering back in the one nine hundred sixty s. and it is shrouded in secrecy pushed cynically to learn the islands to the us but there was a problem the island had for generations been inhabited by the chikezie and people they'd built schools hospitals a whole life and what did the british government they simply pretended none of this existed by dictating the entire population from their homes secrets lies deception dishonesty always rooted in facts in one thousand nine hundred eighty s. britain went to war protecting the folks and islanders from argentina in training first sums of money and costing precious lives the exact same time it was also using expensive resources preventing the people of the chakan silence from attending the falkland living in the homeland and they have a choice to say where they they wanted to stay under. the rule of the british or if

they wanted to go to the fork. time rules they have a say but with the suction we don't have the sea he gave me the impression that there's no justice even the british government is the one like you every now and then used you here in the news talking about human rights justice social justice and so on but they are the one that many people in the justice the chico seeing community have been fighting for their right to return to the islands ever since they winning some of their cool cases pushed. government have continually appealed blocking their progress every step of the way how differently the chicken people have been treated there's been a government balloting or knocking on doors on their behalf or asking what they want the h word comes to my mind for four how long are you going to punish us

for how long we're going to live this life we don't want to be here we don't want this life we want to go back home. where we've been all that's our true send us back home perhaps the most shocking thing about this story if this isn't simply something that happened decades ago this possum justices have been compounded by successive british governments right up to the coalition and today he continued to fight against the returning to their island and say that stories remain largely consigned to the saturdays and yet that you can see him people continue to pray for the fight to return so that. says. sarah. oh well i'll be back with the news team with wolf in about twenty minutes from now in the meantime we talk to former cia head michael hayden if the us whatever. they were

and if you can. wealthy british style. markets why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max conjure the no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into cars a report on our. mission free cretaceous free in-store charge of free. range month free. three stooges

free. old free broadcast quality video for your media projects a free video don carty dot com. you. been living this way since the seventeenth century. their rituals are strict. their communities are the silicon. they clearly missed english between their own and the alien. and guard their family in things in the trash.

he is a retired four star general of the u.s. air force and also served as director of america's national security agency and central intelligence agency joining our team now for an exclusive one on one interview is general michael hayden thank you very much for taking the time to speak with me today thank you i'd like to begin our discussion with major news event that took place last week that event being the death of venezuelan president

hugo chavez now mr chavez was known for his hard line stance towards the u.s. he even accused the cia once of plotting to kill him will relations with them as well as be troubled if vice president nicolas maduro secedes chavez as president you know one fears that they might but one also hopes that they might not i think president chavez of a very strong populous clearly very popular and some segments are going to run in society he took an awful lot of the support off a lot of his identity simply by being by appearing to be in opposition to the north as an opposition to to the united states and whether or not we were causing him problems it was convenient for him to accuse us of causing him problems i actually think the problem for right now that they haven't been is whether structural although he enjoyed it popular support among the poorer classes he did not do much to reinvest to reinvest in the infrastructure reinvest in the oil industry which

state resources depend and so i think the new president is going to have to take a very realistic look at what he needs to do in order to carry out even to continue some of the policies of his predecessors which was you know i mean i may be firm some elements of strong social justice but you can't share things you don't have you have to create and that requires greater cooperation with the. the private sector and other segments of venezuelan society and frankly greater cooperation with the united states let's shift gears now and move on to another topic that's been dominating the headlines that topic drones of course due to the nomination of john brennan as cia director now u.s. drones have reportedly killed thirteen hundred people in pakistan since obama came into office those people not just terrorists but a lot of civilians too this has outraged pakistan an ally of the u.s.

medic many critics say that the u.s. drone campaign is actually inciting a lot of hatred towards america and breeding terrorism and terrorists do you believe drones are the right weapon in the war on terror and are they being used in the right way now this is a complex question and it doesn't allow the simple answer richard haass president of the council on foreign relations said something very interesting in an interview in which i was a participant richard said when it comes to targeted killings in the use of drones he's looking not for a switch but for a dial and i think that's actually very profound that's i think that's very insightful look we are we believe we're a nation at war we're at war with al qaeda and its affiliates this war is global in scope and we have both a right and a duty to take this fight to this enemy were they may be and in some cases that

requires targeted killing and some of the ungoverned spaces that remain on the planet know for the longest time the immediate effect of a targeted killing that you have as as we say we have taken off the battlefield someone already convinced trained and prepared to do harm to the united states that immediate effect trumped everything else that effect was overwhelming in terms of the calculus one had to make as to whether you. should do this or not do it but even then three four years ago even then we realized that wasn't the only effect there were also second and third order effects effects on our allies effects on the willingness of others to cooperate effect on al qaeda recruitment effects on the global image of the united states and no i think it's fair to say that those second and third order effects they're becoming more prominent in terms of the overall effect of an individual action but you've got to turn the dial you've got to take into consideration the second and third order effects before you make the decision

to take this kind of action you say that the u.s. is a nation at war when does this war and when is it deemed a success what needs to be accomplished for the u.s. not to be a nation at war any longer that's a great question and it's one with been asked by my countrymen were war tell me when i'm finished let me know how i've won i understand and and i know there will come a point at which folks like me with my background and my experience need to go to our political leaders and say you know folks the war paradigm served us very very well but it was not without its own cost it was not without its own effects and now i think we have pushed this threat down to such a level that the war paradigm is no longer that useful to us and we need to move into a law enforcement or an international cooperation kind of paradigm now to round

this out i think that will come some day that there's not today you served as director of the cia for nearly three years and you were still in that position when u.s. president barack obama took office there were reports that he was on about using drones excessively and you had to persuade him. tensions possibly running high at that time is there any truth to those reports it's very difficult for. to talk about specific operations or to confirm or deny things that my government hasn't confirmed or denied but i think in general i think i can give you this statement with the exception of detention interrogation which of course became a very popular and well known cause with the change in administration. president obama embraced very strongly much of the war on terror strategy that president bush was conducting during president bush's second administration clear he just said there's no longer word care if you will be also said he did but three

interesting he used the phrase we used internally right internally the phrase was we are at war with al qaeda and its affiliates and that was our operational expression of the president's more public global war on terror so fundamentally nothing really changed in terms of what the security structures in the united states were doing you know there's not a new discussion regarding drones that's being had in that has to do with the topic of anonymous drones some recent examples of of that include two drone attacks that took place in pakistan last month those attacks reportedly killed nine people including two al qaeda operatives now. immediately filed a complaint a protest with the american embassy but u.s. officials came back and said look we're not responsible for that attack that we haven't had any activity in pakistan since january and the pakistani government

says it wasn't us and there's now no clear way to know who was operating those drones in pakistan do you believe that this drone warfare this drone campaign that the u.s. has been leading will eventually open up a pandora's box of anonymous jones because as of last month there are over forty fifty countries that are now using drones well that's a great question and i know the incident incidents you're referring to and. you have to understand i'm out of government now for years i only know what i read in the newspapers but i find it quite curious. what does it teach me what does it suggest to my thinking one thing is that troubled region of pakistan is cheese was . no one is exercising sovereignty it's also great for as you point out in the. use of unmanned aerial vehicles you've got a god given american right. other nations will fall i mean we have been leading the

technology here but the technology is not all that daunting other countries will follow in our footsteps that puts a great deal of pressure on the united states in terms of how it actually conducts itself with these weapons we are indeed setting precedent that others will almost certainly follow president obama is no longer running for a second term in office or running to keep his job some would say he's running now for the history books do you believe he should deliver on his promise to close guantanamo bay i actually think the promise was a mistake right now i realize there are a range of views within my country on that but i go back to the premise and by the way president obama agrees with the president promise we are a nation at war he said that consistently otherwise he couldn't do many of the things that he is now authorizing us to do you have to begin with the war paradigm one of one of the aspects of armed conflict is the right to detain enemy combatants

so my debate with president obama is not that he hasn't lived up to his promise to close it. but i think the promise to close it was unwise by the way you realized that we reduced the prison population at guantanamo during the bush administration far more dramatically than has been done in the obama administration i mean we understood the branding issue that was going tunnel but we also understood we were at war i mean look on labor day weekend for your viewers that's the first weekend in september here in the united states and two thousand and six i moved fourteen prisoners from cia detention sites the so-called black sites to guantanamo i needed a place to put the guantanamo was a perfectly legal perfectly acceptable place recent polls are showing that only fifteen percent of selected muslim countries approve of president obama's foreign

policy is that dangerous is that troubling in any way it courses it is not a popularity poll i mean we're not out there to be loved something george w. bush said right was i mean draw a comparison and thirty nine years a military officer so i go back a long way i remember something called the cold war and i bet you many of your viewers remember it as well and during the cold war we actually talked about the close fight and the deep fight and here in the cold war the deep fight was largely illogical and it was about western views towards economics and political democracy and soviet views and frankly that was argued very strongly between the two groups but one that was argued mike hayden from pittsburgh pennsylvania had a legitimate view on communism because whatever else communism may or may not have been it was a western philosophy and so when we entered that conversation my views had

legitimacy because i was speaking from my own cultural tradition. in the current war the deep has to do with something going on inside islam no it's very hard for my came from pittsburgh to enter into a discussion about islam i have no legitimacy in fact fact when i do enter in that discussion i make things worse. because i have no authenticity and making that kind of comment so what we see going on i think is a struggle within islam it's the struggle that all the monotheisms have gone through christianity judaism and islam and it's a struggle with modernity without drawing your viewers too far back into history. christendom went through this in the seventeenth century at the end of the thirty years war when we decided you know we've got plenty of reasons to fight with one another but let's not include religion in the list any more right and we embraced a more secular approach we separated the sacred from the secular i think islam is

going through that great debate now but that debate is within islam and we'll have to see how it turns out sorry that's a very long answer but i think that's really what's going on if you've most recently spoken about the threat of cyber warfare and you said that it's coming from china but what about groups like anonymous this is tension is something that the chinese have armed they've worked for over the years the mandiant report that came out about two weeks ago that focused very heavily on one particular unit in the people's liberation army that worked for. the third bureau there pale way through as we call it i had a i had someone a colleague of yours from your profession call me up and say wow this man that report is big news and i said well it's big. but it's not news i mean anybody who's been doing this knows what the chinese have been doing now to be more accurate the chinese even stealing stuff they have not been using to start with a name to create damage or destroying networks or or things like that but they've

been stealing stuff on and on them unprecedented scale know all right through them one day all nations do this i was the head of the american organization that did this for the united states and frankly we're quite good at it but we and some other nations around the world self limit we still secrets out there in the server to maine to keep americans free and to keep them safe. we don't do it to make them rich we don't do it for commercial benefit. well let me rephrase that it's espionage and espionage is an accepted international practice when that mandiant report came out. somewhere say but we the hands of the united states are not clean the u.s. has also played a huge role in cyber espionage and even some sang that the u.s. had a major role in the stocks that attack allegedly carried out by washington

and tel aviv against iran so isn't the u.s. in some way throwing stones when it lives in a glass house i don't even speculate given my background on who may or may not have been responsible for stocks it but i do agree with the premise of your question it's a really big deal i mean if someone just used a weapon comprised of ones and zeros to know the practical description was to take over the control system in the towns and destroy thousand centrifuges which i view is almost a non avoid good but i can rephrase that sentence and say someone during a time of peace just use a cyber weapon to destroy another nation's critical infrastructure. well that's an important development and i fully understand the import of the fact of stuxnet and leave alone who may or may not have done so i will have to leave it right there general michael hayden thank you very much for your time thank you.

please please please. please. please. glenn. glenn

. clint. for some people extreme cold isn't a chilling threat. if it's a cooling if you look you can see that the water in my body feels really warm now this is good for you. they plunge into icy water to make themselves stronger you can't get used to the cold but you can tolerate it and you can struggle with.

people of snow and ice picks as a frost. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought. i'm tom harpur welcome to the big picture. at. least be cool language. programs and documentaries in arabic it's all here on. reporting from the world talks about seventy odd p. interviews intriguing stories for you to. see in trying.

to find out more visit our big.