part of moscow. time sam saxton for tom hartman in washington d.c. i'm richard fowler and here's on the big picture tonight there is a river of oil flowing through the streets of mayflower arkansas resulting in resulting from abrupt. spewing tar sand all across this all across the city yet big oil won't want to build another the keystone x.l. pipeline putting millions of americans at risk is this risk worth the reward also guns on school campus the n.r.a. has announced their school safety proposal that includes arming and training school staff will these measures make our schools safer or will they make our teachers and students more at risk and this past december michigan state legislature passed a law passed a law making a right to work making making michigan a right to work state and now they're back at it trying to pass

a law that will strip unions of their exclusivity rights which means attacks against the middle class and working class and what is it going to stop. so tonight we kick things off with our tuesday politics panel joining us tonight are patrick hedger policy analyst with freedom works and neil mckay conservative commentator editor the guns and patriots newsletter welcome gentlemen all right let's get started richard just mentioned we've got oil covered ducks being recovered now in arkansas twenty two homes have been evacuated this is all thanks to an exxon mobile pipeline that ruptured carrying tar sands oil so we've got thousands of barrels of oil spilled here in arkansas and yet conservatives and the oil barons want to build a massive pipeline to carry carry even more tar sands oil from canada all the way down to texas should we be rethinking this stuff now that we're seeing the effects

of some of these spills. first of all i think we should gradually exxon for its response deploying fifteen trucks and thirty three storage tanks and really addressing this emergency i think there have been lessons learned from b.p. and we're seeing it in action right now but we just put ourselves in a situation where we don't have to do this stuff anymore we don't have to be just burning wood. yeah i don't know the words i'm not really sure that. this thing was i mean if you look at the billions of dollars we've invested in wind power over the years over the past few decades we've invested billions of taxpayer dollars in wind power and we're still oil producing about three percent of the energy needs of the u.s. consumer so at the end of the day what i want to i don't want i don't want to revert to his burying my head in the sand at every little risk there is in the world i mean if you really look at you say thousands of barrels of oil yes it was twelve thousand barrels of oil that did spill in arkansas today but if you look at that in the bigger picture the big picture show let's look at the bigger picture the big picture is that we burned eighteen million barrels of oil in this country

a day so that's point six percent of the barrels of oil that would that we burn every day that somehow leaked and what the great thing about a pipeline is is that when the leak was detected they shut the pipeline off and the oil stopped flowing. ritually jump in here in just a second but this is a relatively small spill compared to what we've seen especially in the gulf but this keystone pipeline it's going to build right on top of the. yes that was actually going to be built mostly downhill from there and last i checked oil doesn't flow uphill ok well this is awkward contains billions of gallons of water two million americans use this. cultural needs there's twenty percent of farms that depend on this aren't the risk a little too far i mean you're saying ok oil doesn't flow uphill but we still have i mean we're talking about the center of our country some of the most pristine natural resources and we're not talking about just a small town but it wasn't i mean there is a you can turn the spigot off is so not as soon as you detect

a laser missing fams point here and i think same as rest of the point is that they detect a leo well just look at the things going is that you write because you know we detected a leak in the middle of the gulf of mexico and all of that remains a divorce they don't need to drill in deep waters and they could drill some more safely at shallow waters and we're going to have a prostitute think we're missing the point of what's happening in mayflower arkansas as a result. of a pipeline rupture even if its only point was six percent of the oil being released just imagine the point when that oil gets into the water supply of twenty million americans and it's a tragedy for those people in arkansas so that's what we should have will be part of that we gather and there will be remedies for that i'm going to the rest of the ultimate remedy is not having the pipeline right once again let's look at the big picture what is your alternative how we're going to get water how do we get out about how we're going to power the grid with wind power if it's only producing three percent of our needs if this is the i mean your alternatives let's shut the cameras the lights off and go outside the campus is the short sightedness of our energy policy in this country have seen our european allies use other types of

energy if they put women in the ocean they've used other types of power they've you thought if you saw on panels of all solar panels on a two hundred fifty more homes in germany i mean and work yes well we just don't want to vested here but one of the reason the oil lobby has gone too far one of the reasons why we need energy independence in this country is because so much of our energy comes from the middle east and so if weak the keystone pipeline what are you judging that risk get a look around is it is it more important to have the keystone pipeline at the risk of putting our troops or in the middle east i don't know what you're talking about because the keystone pipeline isn't going to give us any oil what they want to call it going to this yes. it's going to be it's going to be refined in the gulf and sent over to china well i don't know that that's what it's going to actually the none of you know that it's actually up to the mark here is that i did use a pretty simple question we have part of the keystone pipeline already built it goes to nebraska shore where it's refined ok can all this oil be refined from

nebraska and across the years and i think why do they certainly want to go to find areas where there were lives that were in fine shipping lanes i'm just wondering why they're suddenly all this concern over eight hundred miles of pipeline when we have fifty five thousand miles of pipeline in this country that are operating safely every day so they have nineteenth century energy form and we're in the twenty first century now actually wind power is much older than oil power me look at all those ancient windmills. and i mean if when power is so great they'd still be building those assets to let you hear about those wind powered ships. that i think were missing were missing the broader argument here you brought no you brought up short whole idea of energy independence yes you know and tell me if i'm wrong on this one but i think energy independence is bigger than just oil we need to talk about other uses we need to follow it roche oil is a renewable resource is it not a mobile resource shore so when it comes out it runs out and you're going to run our own we're going to run out we're going to run out what one hundred so i guess you guys have your i would never want you guys wouldn't you guys would drill in anwar and kill the caribou and you know. here's a go i'm not about that i think that in two hundred years we'll be able to figure

out an alternative but from afar as i can tell the preserve the reserves that are off the ship to shore up about brazil are going to the perspective in here are going to make we've got a seventy year old woman eleanor fairchild who is arrested on her own property trying to stop this keystone pipeline from being built do you guys have a problem with a foreign corporation using their highly toxic tar sands that they don't want to refine in canada they want to build a pipeline ship it down here where it can be refined in the united states do you have a problem with us being the the dumping ground mining pit for canada or you'd have to go home and imperialism sam are you but that's the question and i think one of our allies i'm really not concerned with letting the free market work i mean this keystone pipeline met fifty three separate standards set out by the state department and the department of transportation so when the government say get all the literature on them are i. promise you could this conversation will definitely continue but today the national rifle association released a new report on how they were going to protect our nation's schools and of course the report did not include you know include

a lot of recommendations including changing how states allow for people you know state how states trained individuals to use guns but also talked about increasing collaboration with law enforcement encouraging schools to take part in safety and safety procedures to make the school more safer but what it missed out on what were the main part of it was putting guns in school and do you feel as though putting down the school. an answer it can't be an answer and i certainly think people don't have an obligation to be a victim and so if people want to be armed they should have the right to do that but interestingly enough in this whole city teachers. they believe. so don't wear saying you're saying that teachers can't be trusted with firearms i think teachers are the bedrock of the society sam dario but hold on a study now so i just want to go a little further on this so the task force leader former congressman congressman hutchinson was asked what guns are the staff be allowed to have and he stated the following he thinks they should have side arms shotguns and they are fifteen and as we all know fourteen with the weapon that was used by adam lanza in the sandy hook

shooting do you think should be in our schools they are fifteen it's like it's such a wide category basically we're talking about is a military style law i'm glad you brought it up a military style gun which we're not we're not at war we're educating students and we should have those guns in our schools well i think i think you have to get over the fact that you people enjoy using military style i agree with you and then think we. should be allowed in our schools absolutely so i mean we're talking about a pistol grip they're designed to look like an m. sixteen or an am four because that's how to stop should be exposed to our children yes it's all cosmetic it's not cosmetic weapons of war should be disposed to our children like i just that's completely not everything gets a weapon of war patrick. you with your middle school here in the united states high school i did i did yeah so sounds like i'm a bit of a fan of the senate bill i agree with you i think teachers are the bedrock of our size of the state way more but in every perfect profession from teachers to bankers

on wall street to cops to whatever you've got some bad apples you've got some weirdos who are in the position right do you have any teachers that you would have been really uncomfortable with if you knew that they had an ar fifteen in their desk you know this is an issue i really focus on too much more of an economist kind of deal with the nuts and bolts of the economy but you know looking at it forward about all the not jobs and society then let's disarm the government. and there you go neal what about you do you would you have a problem do you think back and think of some teachers that you would have had a problem having a gun and i think there's a valuing class that i think there are some teachers who are teaching me that would have liked to have had some of this. but this is the situation we create right if we're going to let all teachers carry guns that includes all teachers right that includes the ones who are unstable which you know many if students made it unique and it is isn't competent then obviously then some judge has decided that their constitutional rights have been waived or taken away so you you know you will be morally you don't willy nilly and you would support you would support universal

background checks on all gun purchases including the forty percent that currently are background checks to make sure those people who have been ruled unstable teachers don't get because we're telling you some gang banger or terrorist or felon is going to show up for a background check know what i'm saying so who are you supposed to be the law and i wasn't guarding and i'm glad you brought this up because today congressman emanuel cummings came out and he pushed for a law that would stop straw purchases basically when folks go away and it's already illegal or legal he would make it a felony and he would put already of reality he would have stricter penalties for going in and making a straw purchase for somebody who has a gun right right so you agree that we should increase the penalties on felons for increase the penalties for people who do straw purchases i don't have a problem with somebody who willfully performs a straw purchase act like for instance you know the fast and furious thing i think all of those people involved a fast and furious should have been jailed. in the festive period where they draw an operation run by the obama supplier i was guarded by the bush administration for

the right no it was just it was stop and it was hard it was started by the bush stopped and all of the arizona that pretty much forbid any of the a.t.f. agents from confiscating any weapons that even though they know they're going across the border to be given to mexican drug lords or whatever you need to actually see that happen before you can move in to do anything about it i had an attorney from one. those gun stores tell me directly that his the clerks of that store were told by a.t.f. to go ahead with purchases that they wanted to deny so what was the motive ten twenty seconds wars or tell me this conspiracy theory real quick what was going on up to the point is to say that unregulated guns were responsible for destabilizing mexico ok well we'll get back to the conspiracy theory tonight with what a lot of all think that a lot of the. let me let me i want i wouldn't let me ask you a question. here on this network is we're having

a debate we have our knives out for. the truth is this time it was just a bad thing never again hearing this story we're being i don't want to talk about the surveillance we. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harpur welcome to the big picture. here is mitt romney trying to figure out the name of that thing that we americans

call a dog. i'm sorry i'm just a guy who cares enough about. our through you know what that is my theory selling. wants us to defeat terrorism. and the christian. usually. you know you distracts us from what you and i should care about because there are profit driven industry that sells us sensationalistic garbage because that breaking news i'm having mark and we're going to break that it's. pretty much in the field that you won't find it here if you're looking for relevant stories unique perspective from tom ruskin this time.

we're back with the political panel joining us patrick codgers and neal mckay and i misspoke and they are no worries. and we're glad that you guys are here to listen the new york city council has finally achieved a deal on guaranteeing sickleave for all of the all of new york city the measure will give the full time employees in the city and allow for part time employees to accrue one hour of sick leave for every thirty thirty hours worked mayor bloomberg has said he will veto the bill saying that it's shortsighted it's shortsighted i cannot sort of economic policy that will take our city in the wrong direction but that being said bloomberg mr bloomberg financial firm offers these benefits to their employees the city council has enough votes to veto the plan and override mayor bloomberg veto should the employees be guaranteed sick leave what is your take on that do you think full time employees should get sick leave well i just think it's so nice to see bloomberg stepping back from the nanny state it's really great but you know we solved the problem right there you just said it bloomberg

company already offers the sick leave so why do we need to govern the i don't use the government mandate to his employees but the whole point of this the whole point of this is he offers it to his employees with almost one hundred that hundreds and thousands of new yorkers do not get paid sick leave and that's why this law is being passed to begin with while you look at it good or bad policy it just kind of sets this dangerous press. and slippery slope i mean if we're going to tell businesses about think it's the law applies to business is there fifteen twenty employees and out of all the parcel in eventually decide i'm all right managing the economy again and so i was all that is are you saying that hardworking americans shouldn't be guaranteed sick leave it there and i'm saying it's not the government's job to regulate these things this is a private haunt why is it not when government you enter into a private contract i hear a voice if you don't hear that it's they all go to get a job somewhere else i wish i could tell more people that but the government keeps getting in the way of job creation like that's the biggest driver of our day here is in health care spending i thought it was solar energy pork. i would say i would

say considering how high health care costs are probably want to do something or reduce those costs right so why do we want workers especially restaurant workers giving forced to go to work sick because they don't have any sick days and spreading the flu around other ideas all you're saying giving new york city employees more pages time off lawyers in america right will secure the deficit and will make health care costs fall because that was what spend the night is this spend the day at home watching t.v. at work once again infecting their coworkers and their customers it's really shortsighted because you you're not differentiating compensation with wages you say you're going to keep the wages stagnant but you have to realize that that paid sick day it comes from somewhere so on the net of the economy it's going to reduce overall wages and that's going to reduce your absence of particularly when it comes from that one percent who have seen two hundred and seventy five percent and isn't it true that you know this bill we're talking about here talks about fifteen to twenty five employee business so but that's not the one percent that's millions of

americans that are trying to opt out of the reality of a restaurant that's a bad line of beauty correct let's correct this what the bill says if you have twenty or more employees you have to implement the sick days earlier than if you have fifteen or lesser employees so everybody in new york whether you have a thousand employees or one employee you will have to give mandatory with that being said all the facts show that one p. . people are given more sick day they end up getting sick less because they employ more bit of health care budget on top of that the facts also show that when you have mandated when you have accrued sick dave you actually go to work when you're sick more also it's so smart how come people don't do it on their own if it's so smart that's why that's why i do my job and obvious that it helps the company the same time to give people the day i want to start on something really important it's that the government which most governments can't even figure out how to balance a budget are somehow smarter than all these business owners in the country that are balancing budgets year to year and i want somehow no better than business owners i own a subway say you know what i own a subway and i want sick workers coming and that's absolutely ridiculous it's

irresponsible and the market will flood those irresponsible business owners out of the market somebody i mean we are the only developed country in the world that doesn't offer paid sick time invitation time. to look at this you want to be as productive as france is yeah exactly is that some point i was about to get to that what you said is all the call if you want to be indicators they rank higher than us at all except for they had twelve percent unemployment in the eurozone today it's a lot worse than the us that's the whole issue ok it's not a lot if you're not getting anywhere doesn't it is not going to do business they've got twelve percent unemployment because they've got a government that they think knows best and so you can't do business in europe and you've got rampant unemployment i mean of germany with four percent unemployment overseeing the trend i mean that what they're propping up the rest of the of these failing countries with all these huge nanny states where we probably should be german companies are opening their factories here let's talk about all the mercedes that are built in alabama you know because they have right to work well you know why they're building a boat here because you're right there it's becoming more competitive because they don't have to the stuff we're becoming the lone wage labor nation and of arrow's

people in the south that are building mercedes analogies i mean i just. before we go out of that stop i think that the truth of the matter here is and i think the crux of it all is that if you work forty hours a week and you are a hardworking american i believe that every hardworking american should be allowed to take a sick day if they're sick with the flu and not be not think they're ever going to get fired or laid off which would happen if there's not a. and i admit i was a hard working american should have the right to be what i was if you are and i felt when i got on any other jobs that their employer doesn't offer that and you're only going to hurt the small businessman the big companies they can afford it it's the small businesses that are going to get crushed by you and your meddling but let's go ahead and micromanage let's not people that can't even balance a budget micromanage businesses that can already how many of those businesses in new york you know they are way on her way to being the low wage labor for the rest of the world ok let's move on let's move on to the sequester that you guys said wasn't going to do anything so far we're starting to see the the effects have been post had the ninety nine problems sequester caused all of them we've got air force

base jobs lose lost in tennessee medical response teams linked in central nebraska i go down the list they're all over the country and they're just starting to take effect so it's a pretty simple question does government spending create jobs or doesn't it because here we have government spending being cut and we have jobs being lost so go to the government and government spending creates dependency and that's what you're seeing and at the end of the day stop calling them cuts because next year the government's going to spend fifty billion dollars more than it spent two thousand and eleven the end of the day the law the budget control act which put this sequester in place gave all the power in the world for geithner arrogant down jack lew and president obama to sit down and figure out hey we're going to make government more efficient and they want to open up across the board cut made to hurt people in order to buy political troubles that only happened because republicans wouldn't close only who polls on jet. having jet republicans and democrats in congress you fired two thousand you didn't offer. a balanced budget so you say that all government

spending does is create dependence so you have a problem with being dependent on police officers firefighters and teachers and i have a problem with people getting perverse incentives in the economy where they're going to use more they're so yeah absolutely cut the oil subsidies cut the wind subsidies as much allow them to go deeper and deeper to drill deeper and you know that's a government regulation that's forced to go deeper. but if you look at if you look at what's happening in the economy it's that private savings is being crowded out by all these fica taxes which we're driving up so people are becoming more dependent on government spending if we let the free market work when the government cut itself a little bit because it's not running i'm sorry you were laid off about let's talk this whole idea i love when you guys talk about this whole idea we just need the free market to do all of our problems so how do you suppose you loved it more i mean how do you suggest we and i think sam is right how you feel how does just we deal for the common good like the parks service the highways the schools the hospitals you start again with the background which is that which is the backbone of your advice let's bring it back to the sequester and you've got to look at what

happened as we are this is why when you look at what has airports have been shut down because of the sequester a lot of those airports barely see any traffic i just want to know what article and laughing they're lying on their airport trust fund let's bring it back to discuss just how can the sequester be so damaging how can we see this catastrophic economic apocalypse when we're spending more money than we did last year and next year we'll spend more money i didn't get what i said you know you were getting your people living in the country oh this is in the us for impacts directly outpacing inflation and population are you exactly where we're seeing the sequester cuts if you look at states like tennessee exactly where we are october and i can tell every secretary wanted them to go wherever the what is that was written it wasn't it wasn't barack obama or tim geithner it was hauling it was i'm sorry ryan because of the paul ryan budget of the that has no control over everything and you know paul second if i could finish the paul ryan budget were able to take effect he would cut head start regardless with the sequester cuts going with the sequester going into there's a lot of poor families who are basically saying you cannot bring your child care and your child doesn't have the ability to learn

a good head start i mean that's barack obama saying it's education funding for children i didn't say that i started i don't like the head start program creation and it's been shown it's been shown that any a positive i think it's not true and you have all the energy go ahead if you get to kids another great by third grade i would have had our days ahead but i have played it all the head start is before third grade a head start. evidence to be able to go later and there's also evidence that shows into the boys should not have better get into the way that the boys at every school who want to tell a heartless you've got to look at the numbers we're not going to cut stamp subsequent to that was what they are we know it's only a little better starting but it's a reduction in future spending when obama actually has the leverage doesn't exactly what i would want to operate lupul i would cut the tax i would cut the tax subsidies for millionaire programs they don't believe there is needs of the road going to be private jets there are no extra teeth let's hold government let's get out of the weeds here you're saying this is just a reduction in future spending yes let me ask your question we're seeing reductions in future spending all across here can you name one time in the history of modern

civilization when we've cut our way into a better economy is going to prosper cut our way to prosperity look it's not about to start it's not going to they don't have here i don't think the burden of government has grown and we're saddened by it and i stand on what is already have really affected all that was to support this increased spending we have to borrow money exactly and so what you're asking is if i can sprinkle chinese borrowed money all of our economy to create jobs i would add to the whole regiment is deficit spending ever leisure to economic depression or downturn we also looking at cyprus right now military contract i think is that he would have sent their own money you can you poll that subject to the euro but if you want to rob workers there are going to think it's not directly answered and you've got that you've got that answer either the question that we posed what is revenue that a cause a recession or what have cutting out cutting our way out it's reduction for just the right five and one austerity what is austerity measures about austerity there's

no cuts what are severe austerity at the budget higher than ever was so what's going on where all these layoffs are these just all mr hicks all say what are you where all these layoffs are you want this is you know this is wonderfully called the washington finally ending and they're just going at it so if they're doing well the public city it's the love of it my human center nobody's going to notice when you lay off the white house calligrapher but if you close the washington monument everyone's going to be up in arms all you're doing is my. what hope this is was you know those drugs in earthquake but that will begin to clear the science start sam i love oh i love this i love this sambo the whole ideal when they say oh these are these are these are imaginary cars i wonder how those people feel when they last i measured spending when they lost their job they want to play because of the sequester it was you know i wonder how do you i'm just wondering i'm wondering what some of these jobs i want to read are lalich these reductions in future spending whatever you want to call them patrick have had health care workers laid off in cern act like new york education jobs lost in sioux city research employees long term or two hundred ninety million dollars wouldn't even told them if you want all the cuts or reductions in future spending we're seeing job layoffs you're seeing

people had if you working people have less money in their policy than obama stand is the law and as the executive of this country is enforcing he has the power to decide where these cuts come from why he didn't try one which is i didn't cut foreign security he cut the things that will be put by not a little bit less direct last time i checked and maybe things have changed since my civics class but spending in this sort of stuff or originates in congress not it is all that originated in congress that he signed you should read it it's a really really honestly comes bob and it is indeed the power of the congress or it's not worth it once and i haven't the political panel after this break.

you know how sometimes you see a story and it seems so for lengthly you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm charming welcome to the big picture. of potentially deadly blizzard taking aim for the northeast it's expected to hit stunning in a few hours from new york to maine we have team coverage of the storm. but what we're watching is the very heavy snow moving into boston proper earlier today

it was very sticky you can see it start to become much more powdery down so the bottom line there is still a lot of snow out here a good place for snowball fight. jason it is kind of pretty incredible day there and even record snowfall throughout much of in life will be a slog through driving alyssum urgency here all the exceptions. worse you are going to. lie down for the day and the radio guy and. i want. to go because you've never seen anything like this i'm telling.