org the last ten years of war of cost about three point one trillion dollars just cutting wars in half by fifty percent could put a huge dent in the infrastructure spending and what about all those billions in bailout that were spent you see the money is there it just gets wasted if the money stops getting thrown away and start getting spent or well planned infrastructure then the infrastructure will start paying for itself rock'n infrastructure creates wealth so don't fear the infrastructure cliff just stop wasting money or allowed politicians to waste money and everything will turn out to be just fine but that's just my opinion. download the official publication yourself choose your life stream quality and

enjoy your favorite. if you're away from your television just doesn't matter now with your mobile device you can watch on t.v. anytime anywhere. it's. a low in welcome across town where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle but john kerry expresses shuttling through the middle east in search of peace once again a u.s. administration claims to be a fair broker to resolve the israel palestine conflict after forty four years of occupation and colonization of palestinian land what can we expect if anything from the obama administration is it time to reckon with the reality on the ground that is the. one state solution.

to cross-talk the john kerry visit to the middle east i'm joined by dina friedman in washington she is a professor at the american university school of international science also in washington we have jason isaacson he is the american jewish committee director of government and international affairs and in philadelphia we cross the susan she is a writer political commentator and author of the book mornings in janine ok crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want susan just had a visit by the u.s. secretary of state to the middle east anything new did you hear anything new anything promising. unfortunately you know peter and frankly i think we need to stop talking about this fantasy peace process. you know twenty some years ago palestinians made an unprecedented compromise to relinquish our legal and historic

right to over seventy eight percent of our historic homeland with the understanding that an independent palestinian state would be established in the remaining twenty two percent in this time where the while this process was going on you know of course it was turned out not to be a peace process at all but instead it's become. a process of ethnic cleansing it's been a process whereby israel has continued this tuft of natural resources belonging to palestinians principally land and water. it's been a process of israel continuing to build the infrastructure of this israeli apartheid of israeli only roads jewish only housing color coded license plates and with permits checkpoints and so forth so i think you know i mean everybody everybody knows this two state idea is

a lie and for some reason everybody keeps engaging in this ridiculous discourse and it frankly just serves israeli imperialist interests of wiping us off the map and one only needs to look at the map to see the truth in what i'm saying because as of now ok let's let's get in counterpoint let's get accountable i'm just saying start . generally and i'm sure you don't agree with that i go ahead peter thank you for. almost every sentence but thank you very much for giving me this opportunity look the palestinians should have a state and they should have it in that land and they had an opportunity to have the creation of the state of israel in one nine hundred forty eight when the un partition plan was adopted in the one nine hundred forty s. it provided for a palestinian state alongside israel the palestinians and the arab states rejected that went to war against israel let's remember the facts so yes there should be a published in state there are palestinian arabs living on that land they can have a state when they return to the bargaining table and negotiate for

a state but to talk about apartheid to talk about replaces this and that colonization is just nonsense i mean the fact is that israel has a right to exist in peace and security with its neighbors the palestinians have rejected that the arab states have backed them up and gone to war against israel it's time to get to the bargaining table and put that history behind us go ahead jump in the way in which we have very different points of view here ok so on. mine probably is the most of the merger between the two. i agree that there have been problems with futile attempts at peace and that the two state solution is looking more and more blurry and to some impossible i think that it's if we just look at historical facts and figures and dates we will see quite different narratives about who said what to whom on what date and where where the story begins and that's problematic i think we need to move forward addressing the historical grievances

not ignoring the fact that there are historical grievances serious ones that have not been addressed but there are a number of different accounts of what so in other words. when we talk about historical homelands we obviously have two competing claims to a place to the same place i think though. a one state while many jews would probably would most likely disagree with this and many palestinians would prefer that solution i don't see it as a viable one at this point but i personally don't. don't see a problem with talking about it as a longer term possibility i just don't see it happening as the first stage in anything and the two state solution isn't by no means a perfect solution it also doesn't do justice to the palestinians in israel it's problematic in many ways but i'm not sure there's anything better and as someone who is concerned with that region and i actually grew up in that region. giving up

hope that there is any solution would be a really ok magic thing i think we're going to go from here where do we go from here give me a roadmap well look i wanted to make something very clear of the three of us to end this conversation i'm the only one with personal familial lynage dating back centuries. the only reason for example jason you know thinks he even has a say in this matter is the fact is his notion of jewish entitle and which is the problem i mean this is you know where we are the indigenous population he thinks that we need to talk with our oppressors with with the white americans and white europeans who who feel entitled to to the resources belonging to the brown people and palestine and frankly you know i don't i don't exactly that i reject that that's my that is my homeland that's my homeland and i don't need i don't need to associate with people like him to support basic human rights i don't need to

negotiate for freedom palestinians should not have to do that. when i you know i do assure you they have their boots and our necks and they're asking us to negotiate and the irony is that we did precisely that we tried doing that and made an unprecedented historic compromise really. whishing seventy eight percent of palestine and you know it's it's ridiculous to talk about a two state solution now look at the map for god's sakes and besides that i mean israel one successive israeli government after another has affirmed and know it no uncertain terms that that they will not allow the emergence of a viable palestinian state i mean this is their word and they can. jump in here we're going to. we're going to talk about it to what is going to lord peter i mean i can't keep track of all of the things that have been so and counter every one of them it's not possible they're coming thick and fast but listen i i'm not

negotiating on behalf of excuse me. i'm not negotiating on behalf of israel i'm not negotiating on behalf of any state i'm simply demonstrating the fact that there have been jews in that lie and it is the jewish homeland for thousands of years to somehow pretend that there is no jewish connection to that land when we have so much evidence or do you want to live your intent like if we just found the body or even just look at it back then you could have been james and you know i'm not so i'm not just recently susan susan excuse me i'm not saying that there haven't. been through friends living in one of the curious of course there have your lives but what about james i don't have a clue to what i'm great at least what you're looking at more legitimate than any other claims peter peter i'm sorry you have to point you haven't you've had been in egypt for thousands of years you want to take egypt to ok do you know jump in go ahead no this is a well i think if you're going to be fair time do you do despair i think you describe any time in history of. fair time. there are completing

competing claims here obviously and some people think they're totally unequal. things that obviously personally i grew up in israel and many most of my family and friends who are there at this point in life have no other that's where they were either born or raised usually born and they have no other. no other citizenship or place to go either so in other words regardless of the fact that there have been some. historical injustices and many changes they need their own people i think that is that they don't get to kick up now. yeah i agree i don't you know what i mean if you know what i mean i actually think that it's not the words in my mouth don't put words in my mouth that night didn't i didn't say that i said i think one of the things again we have tensions between what our collective collective rights if we look at nationalism as a collective a movement and collective rights of people then every collective that claims it's

a nationalism should have similar rights but regardless of this i mean it's a huge topic i won't have time to get into now but i agree that. many obstacles have been put up by many israeli governments as far as actually establishing a two state solution or a palestinian state i think again further back in history there were there were different parties who refused different international initiatives for various reasons why the arabs rejected it initially and then just rejected things afterwards for all kinds of reasons the point of the matter is that there are people that on many individual has to stop this language susan weigh in. susan go ahead and you have no say finish i have objections as well but on the other you are . such mendacious nice lazy and. i mean this kind of this kind of language makes it sound like that you know these are just two equal parties who are disagreeing you need to stop doing that it's this honest this is

a situation of ethnic cleansing palestinians are literally being wiped off the map and you know issues and we are never going to get i'm going is not i don't know all of you when i talk about here for quite as they are asking about racism we're talking about two peoples with oh you claim just want to talk about will correct you don't want to sung about but that's the reality of somehow didn't are that there was a jewish connection to the wind of israel is just a complete fabrication and the archaeological evidence aside from the right i'm so sad for him but it was so in my mouth you around the world know you've got a cow but he works in my shop and i know suggested denying the reality all right susan before we go to her you know nothing is going to work well and marshmallow in a nutshell spite me such a point in my mouth you know i never said there was no jewish connection what i'm saying is that there is no white european white american connection to that land and that includes you jews have been all over the not for on you're not in this little or i'm not a good citizen or someone you are not if they're just for god's sake egypt or iraq for that matter so so stop this mendacious talk like as if we know we're never

there you're talking about those of years of jewish hands there is some it is all right i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to one short break and after that short break we'll could you know we're discussion in israel and palestine stay with r.t. . we've received. he became a symbol of the nine hundred ninety s. he personified the russian mafia in the kremlin. he was a twentieth century arrest. in just a few years he rose from junior to multi-billion and senior politician.

is decline was as rapid as his meteoric rise and ended in exile his death is now as mysterious as his life. on r.t. . you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realized everything you thought . i'm tom harpur welcome to the big. secret laboratory to mccurry was able to build a most sophisticated robot which fortunately. beefing tombs mission to teach creation why it should care about humans and world this is why you should

care only. international in the very heart of moscow.

welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to mind you we're discussing john kerry's visit to the middle east. ok mike you go back to again in washington is the united states a fair broker in this case in this conflict i think to assume that the united states is either neutral and by totally fair is a mistake it isn't it hasn't been historically. different parties feel palestinians what agree with this more probably israel is it's mixed. but i'm not sure again what their alternative would be because if we go back to our previous discussion we could have parties pursue what they see as absolute justice for their party but they that would probably entail some. injustices to other parties as well so i'm not saying that we need to ignore everything that happened on the contrary what happened thus far is extremely important but if we if we are assuming that

nobody's leaving that area and that we're stuck there together and we need to find something that reasonably accounts for all of the injustices that have been going on and that includes israel stopping to do or starting to do a lot of things i'm not the one that. we need we need some kind of external help and israeli feelings about u.s. involvement are mixed you have the government that's still you know trying to play its usual games like various governments and. but you have the public that's also split i think of obama's speech spoke to a lot of israelis i know that on the in the peace camps which are broader than you usually know it did resonate but at the same time between most israelis understanding that there needs to be a two state solution and wanting the u.s. to help that happen and between the israeli governments actually doing it as it's not exactly the same thing right jason how do you react about the u.s.

is that if i make you jason. thank you very much thank you peter i disagree somewhat i think that when president obama visited israel last month and also the west bank a very important visit to ramallah he made statements that were significant to both populations and i think he identified with the palestinian desire and luke you know jane sinful obama's speech making he was really should give a speech what about policy love to finish what i call of see though it's a good speech we all agree what about what i did and they go ahead i think the policy peter the policies pursued by this administration have been the correct ones they have demonstrated solidarity and understanding of israel's special security needs considering by the way the incredibly unstable neighborhood in which it. exists and let's not forget please the fact that neighboring israel is syria worse seventy thousand people have been killed in the last two years with frankly

unfortunately the support of the russian government the assad regime about it so let's not forget the security. situation he was trying to destroy this is a heap israel has again please so again again and again this administration is that we should talk about their israel's role as a series of his message to the program. for peace and their desire for peace and a place to you peter found a commitment of successive governments to a two state solution to a two state solution susan jump in this is not there they have not been pulled they have not been pulled. away we're going to get a commitment to a two state solution in which in which they continue to steal more and more palestinian land that's i mean this is it's the palestinians of the results coming back to the turn it's not going to turn to speak susan and you know you know i was just giving a piece of please good i mean you know that's why you like both of your guests peter are using this this very mundane chance language i mean on the one hand you

know jason jason talks about israel special security needs in fact israel has bombed and attacked unprovoked nearly every one of its neighbors and i mean it has it is the one that has been creating security issues throughout the middle east for decades and it also ignored. an offer from all arab nations in the region to make peace with it if it would simply comply with international law visa vi resolution two forty two and you know and which would allow for the establishment of a palestinian state along the sixty seven borders and of course it ignored it so the security is you ready for israel's security issue comes from its own greed and that after and of other people's resources and fact. you know there's no way i mean it's so even though he's been asked the question whether or not the u.s. is an honest broker i mean everybody knows it's not i mean and obama just allowed

for another forty billion dollar aid package to israel i mean this is this is on top of the eight we've been giving them for decades and this comes at a time when american schools are closing throughout the country i mean it's it's outrageous the level of. the level of influence that israel exerts on american policies both domestically and foreign policies and you know the other the other mendacious language and the same thing the original terms that ok well israel needs to do it needs to stop a few things in there it's not perfect whatever but let's just say what those things are it really is a brutal savage military power that has inflicted the most technological persistent violence against principally unarmed indigenous population and let's talk about sort of a sudden decision you know the other little problem to them to me that they need to

that they need to address you want to jump in go ahead you know what do you think this is this is. going to change is not something. that is just an issue in the region top you know you won't get any argument you won't get any argument from me about about brutality of arab nations or whatever so you know what but that's not that's not a legitimate thing ok well other people are doing it as a way to make it as a jury so i'm going to it's because because frankly of the i think frankly of the sort of the states in the region that have respected human rights considering the enormous challenges that they have faced rocket assaults from from the south rocket assault from the north instability all of its borders terrorism that has killed hundreds and hundreds of israelis over the years to see what's new and quite. a large the reality of the law is a reality. i didn't jump in i mean i don't want to share time for everyone go ahead . ok so i mean i'm not i'm not arguing with

with many of the things that are most of the things that susan is saying about israel's actions i have serious problems with israel however at the same time there are also israelis who have. come up i know it's taken them forever to react to the arab peace initiative which wasn't perfect but was a good starting point at least to talk about there is that there is the counter israeli peace initiative which people have been trying you know israeli peace initiative more recently there are things like that in a vanishing of other other efforts that show that israelis and palestinians and other arabs some of them can actually sit and think through some of these issues and are not a do not accept the situation or israeli actions etc the problem is again the governments have not adopted these and not enough from the grassroots are pushing enough to adopt these changes but at the same time again even though i agree with

many of the things susan is saying in principle i also happen to be israeli and i also happen to know what a lot of israeli people go through which doesn't matter that it might be israeli governments fault nevertheless there are millions of people in israel as well actually jews and arabs who go through who who also are victims of the situation and whatever solution it we come to doesn't need to. obliterate palestinian rights or palestinian identity by any means but it also has to take into account that there are there are also other millions of people there most of whom actually would prefer to live in peace with their neighbors we have leaderships not just the current one but but maybe one of them if you don't know if there is you're inside that's the problem the problem is you can't you can't live in peace that's going to problematic to have jewish entitle meant and privilege at the same time that that's part of the problem heart of the that is that is precisely the problem that. yes to be relieved to be that's your training if you want to listen to secure

a record population that's going to privilege economic privilege psychological social privilege to people just yet through being jewish so you can't have it both ways israelis who have a history of being ok great and i actually have the courage to say what's going to change and fair time jason thank you very much peter i think good israelis who have been attacked over the decades by their neighbors need to have security and a peace process that produces security between the peoples is the guarantor that we are asking for and in fact if the arab peace initiative had been presented in a way that demonstrated its understanding of israel's security needs and meeting israel at the table instead of dumping the arab peace initiative on israel from afar i think it would have had a different reaction but the fact is that there is growing as dana says there is growing room and or understanding within israel that the possibility the possibilities do exist if the arab states come to the table with if it should be if the palestinians were backing come to the table with israel there was a definite cross-section of agreement within the israeli public that this is the

way forward is the only way forward again i'm going to remind you that now it's going to you know you have time i don't mean to say not going to answers for freedom please edina ok i would say so some of the israelis back to what jason was just saying some of the israelis what would frame that differently so the people who have proposed some of these agreements don't put the main onus on palestinians they take they take their responsibility as well and put it also largely on the israeli government so it's so there are different opinions among israelis but those who are pursuing agreements are very strongly. also acknowledge that israeli government has been a main ops israeli governments have been a main obstacle not the only one but a main one but back to the issue of privilege really is not enough israelis i want you want thank you i like to think we have thirty seconds left i'm going to give the last word to susan is last word to susan thirty seconds. and you know i mean it . that's easy to say that isn't necessary isn't really true because israelis have

been electing one right wing government after another putting one word criminal at the helm after another and you know what as an indigenous violent forgivable we should not the world should not demand that we sit down and negotiate with our oppressors for basic freedom and basic human rights and jason's only only reason that he thinks that he has any say in this matter is simply born of his his sense of jewish entitle much and that's the problem ok fascinating not going to shoot i'm sorry were brought out of time many thanks for the time i guess in washington and in philadelphia and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember crosstalk.

knowing that she knows i would live. in eternal silence. to honor her rather than to invisible. every day is a struggle. for our children sleep soundly at night. we are palestinian women working in israel. we've done more for our kids than our husbands. we are phantoms in this life. he became a symbol of the ninety ninety s. he personified the russian mafia in the kremlin. he was a twentieth century arrest gotten. in just a few years he rose from junior research

a to multi billionaire and senior politician. is decline was as rapid as his meteoric rise and ended in exile his death is now as mysterious as his life. better. on r.t. . is easy he is. to be. seen. this is art.