to live on one hundred thirty three bucks a month for food i should try it because you know how fabulous bad luck i got so. i mean. i know that i'm seeing the scenery really messed up. in the old story so closely. it's. worse you're going to see the only white house or the. radio guy in fort lauderdale minutes from a concert i want. to give you never seen anything like that i'm telling. you it's up guys i'm adding martin in contemporary times of consumerism and

superficial commentary philosophy seems like a dying art which is why i'm excited to share an in-depth conversation i just have a dr noam chomsky philosopher linguist professor of political critic and author of over one hundred books the last fifty years dr chomsky has worked out of his mit office where i sat down with him surrounded by large stacks of books papers and memorabilia he's collected over the years and it eighty four years old dr chomsky is as sharp as ever and is able to articulate his unique viewpoint on everything from media propaganda to the war on terror so without further ado my one on one with dr noam chomsky. so much for taking the time to meet with me it's a great honor to be sitting here and were in boston cambridge actually but you know as someone who was a living in the aftermath of the boston bombing the chaos what did you think of the police and media response to them well the. i hate to second guess

police tactics but my impression was it was kind of done that they didn't have to be that degree of militarization of the area maybe they're maybe not it's kind of striking that the suspect they were looking for was found by a civilian after they lifted the curfew he just noticed some blood on the street but. i have the police tactics as far as the media was concerned. it was twenty four hour coverage on television on all the channels and also just zeroing in on one tragedy whilst ignoring the tragedies incurred in fact i was crossing the film is after the. boston bombing there was a drone strike in yemen. one of many but this one we have to know because the

young man from the village that was hit testified before the senate a couple of days later and described and right at the same time that what he said is. interesting and relevant he said that his village which nicely they were trying to kill somebody in his village they said the man was perfectly will. pretend that what he was. a drone strike is a terror weapon we don't talk about it but it is just imagine if you're walking down the street and you don't know whether in five minutes. there's going to be a explosion across the street. from some place in the sky that you can't see and. somebody will be killed and whoever else is around will be killed and maybe you'll maybe you'll be injured if you're there. just as

a terror weapon terrorizes. edges regions huge areas effects the met most massive terror campaign going on longer and what happened in the village is that according to the testimony senate testimony that he said that the jihadi had been trying for years to turn the villagers against the americans and had not succeeded he said in one drone strike they turned the entire village against the americans that's you know maybe a couple hundred new people who will kill terrorists if they take revenge it's a terror generating machine it's a terror to terrorist operation and a terrorist generating machine so it goes on and on and it's not just the drone strike sources forces and so on well that was right at the time of the boston marathon and it's just one of innumerable cases and. this is more than

that this. the man who is the man who was targeted for whatever reason they had to target him. that's just my first officer's murder there are principles going back eight hundred years to magna carta holding that people cannot be. punished by the state without being sentenced. speedy trial of peers that's only eight hundred years old. they have very skewed but i don't think they really apply a bit beyond that there are other cases where which come to mind right away or should i wear a person is murder who could easily be apprehended. with severe consequences the most famous one is. bin ladin he was there

were. here's special forces trained mabel's navy seals broken has invaded pakistan. broke into his. compound. killed a couple people captured him he was defenseless i think his wife was with him but to and under instructions they just murdered him through his body into the ocean. with. that that's one of the beginning of the apprehension of bin laden and the assassination and dumping his body in the ocean and of course the narrative completely fell apart. and also you've said that you know in the aftermath of nine eleven when the taliban said we will give you bin ladin if we if you present us with evidence which we didn't do we did. i mean their proposal was move sure he could've pursued it but why are people so easy to accept conventional wisdom

government narrative with virtually no question here and here a drumbeat of conventional. propaganda if you take a research project to find other things and of course at the same time as the boston bombings in iraq thought almost the deadliest week in five years i mean april is the deadliest month in in a long time where the trust is going on every day the suicide bombings yet seen as zeroing in on this tragedy when at the same time our foreign policy is is causing this affects these effects in iraq as i mention macor to which is eight hundred years but there's also something else which is about seventy years ago of the nuremberg tribunal which is the foundation as part of the foundation of the modern international law and it defines aggression. as

the supremes international crime differing from other war crimes in that in compass is all of the evil that follows the u.s. british invasion of iraq was a textbook example of the aggression you know the question about it which means that we were responsible for all the evil that follows like the bombings serious conflict has spread all over the region that the region is being torn to shreds by this conflict well that's part of. part of the evil that follows the media's lack of coverage with everything that you're speaking on and i know that america runs on this national of an american exceptionalism but is america's severe lack of empathy unique or do we see this in every country in every just growing up in america and we just you know are isolated with our own viewpoint i think it's true . every great power that i can think of britain was the same france is the same

germany was less a countries defeated like when germany was defeated in the second world war it. was compelled to pay attention to the atrocities carried out but others don't. in fact it was an interesting case this morning which was i was glad to see and it was finally there are trials going on in guatemala for. rios montt was basically responsible for the virtually genocidal destruction of the mines and the us was involved in it every step of the way finally this morning there's an article saying that something was missing from the trials the us role which is good i'm glad your course reined in the school of americas do you think it will ever see white war criminals from imperialist nations stand trial in the same way that it was not it's almost impossible to look at the i.c.c.

international criminal court black africans or other people the west doesn't like. them and bush and blair are the right up there there's no crime reason a crime worse than the invasion of iraq. obama for the terror war but these it's just inconceivable in fact there's legislation in the united states which in europe this called neverland's invasion the congressional legislation signed by the president which authorizes the president to use force to rescue any american brought to the hague for trial. i mean this is. you know that and i speak you know the drone wars i can't help but think of john bellinger the chief architect of the drone policy who was speaking to a think tank recently and he said that obama's ramped up the drone killings simply to avoid the bad press of getting out of capturing suspects alive and trying to get

now when you hear things like this what is your response to people who say his hands are tied he wants to do well that's right it was pointed out some time ago. will street journal military correspondent what he pointed out is that bush's technique was to. capture people and torture them. obama's improved you just kill them and anybody else who's around it's not that his hands are he's a i mean that's a much more. it's bad enough to capture them and torture them but just to murder on executive whim and as i say it's not just murder in the source but there are weapons or as everyone knows. that's. it's not that anyone's hansard that's what he wants to do i rather be detained indefinitely and then be blown up as well as my family and friends around me. that are as it everyone else.

there is. there are recent polls which. show that arab public opinion the results are kind of interesting. they don't. the arabs don't particularly like iran but they don't report it as a threat it's very low they do see threats in egypt and they react and yemen the united states is the major threat. yemen israel slightly above us but basically the us report is a major threat why is that why would he gyptian is it records and yet many over your the united states is the greatest threat they face well it's worth knowing. stick around i have much more from my interview with dr chomsky after the break.

is it possible to navigate the economy with all the details and specifics and misinformation and media hype will keep you up to date by decoding the mainstream state if in your right. shoulder on. the seat. there's really.

little. if you're like. oh. welcome back guys here's the rest of my sit down with noam chomsky. the controversial bamma policies obviously the national defense authorization act the n.d.a. which you're a plaintiff on the case you've also said that holder of humanitarian law is actually worse you know providing material support for terrorism do you think that both of these policies are just caught a fine practices that are that have already been in place for decades this is. is pretty much cut a fine practices that have been employed it was a little went

a little beyond the court case effect is narrow it's about the part that went beyond. authorization to imprison american citizens indefinitely without trial that's. and that's a radical violation of principles that go back as i said eight hundred years i don't see frankly much difference between. imprisoning american citizens in a prison anyone else they're all persons but we make a distinction that distinction was extended extended. the humanitarian law project ground there was a concept of material support for terrorism already sort of a dubious concept because what's how do you decide what's terrorism well that's an

executive women again there's a terrorist list created by the executive branch with that review without anyone having a right to contest it and if you look at that wrist list it really tells you something so for example nelson mandela was on the terrorist list until three or four years ago the reason was that in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight when the reagan administration was strongly supporting the apartheid regime in south africa in fact the overruling congressional legislation in order hate it they declared that the african national congress it was one of the more notorious terrorist groups in the world that's mandela that's one nine hundred eighty eight barely before apartheid finally collapsed and he was just on the terrorist list until then. to take another case in the one nine hundred eighty two when

iraqis invaded iran the u.s. was supporting erratic and wanted a new iraqi invasion to saddam hussein was taken off the terrorist list it's not a terrorist given its head well it's you know it's its executive whim to be. and with we shouldn't take it seriously but there was putting that material assistance meant you know you give him a gun or something like that under the obama administration it's you give them advice let's talk about the one with sticks and language of them want to hear what obama's rebranding of the bush administration policies did a public consciousness of the the policy of murdering people instead of capturing them and torturing them. can be presented to the public in a way that makes it look clean it's presented and i think most people see it this way as a kind of a surgical strike we're planning to do us harm. and

this is a very frightened country terrified country has been for a long time so if anybody's going to do us harm it's fun for us to kill them and some of the reactions are how this is interpreted it is quite interesting for example there was a case to a bit when a drone attack in yemen killed a couple of little girls and that was a discussion but with. a well known liberal columnist joe klein he writes for time he was asked what he thought of it and he said something like. it's better that four of them are killed them four of four little girls here. so because i mean the logic is mind boggling but if we have to kill people elsewhere who might conceivably. have aimed to harm

us and it happens a couple little girls get killed too that's fine we're entitled. i mean i suppose any other any country is doing that. to any anyone we regard as human. cruel but this is very common and i remember once when right after the invasion of iraq the. thomas friedman new york times middle east specialist columnist was interviewed on the charlie rose show you know the sort of intellectuals through the biscuit. as asked him what we ought to be doing in iraq. i wish it could but you've got to see the actual words to grasp it but basically what it was when he said something like this he said.

american troops ought to smash in. the houses and. make people understand that we're not going to allow terrorism. he said suck on this we're not going to allow terrorism in our society you've got to better understand it so these terrorized women and children the. have to be. humiliated and degraded and frightened so that because so that. the that goes i mean it's mind boggling that's the peak of the liberal intellectual culture it was ugly and we have famous like richard dawkins saying that as long as long as one of the greatest threats facing humanity i mean that's a whole nother form of propaganda the liberal elites perpetuating this not just neo con the shit out of the much for. all the media i want to talk to you about that

because obviously that's instrumental in manufacturing consent for these policies i mean your book media control was written a decade before nine eleven that it outlines exactly how sophisticated the propaganda model is when you wrote that book did you have any idea how far it would come and where do you see it in ten years and for it it didn't take any force because it's been going on for a long time. and take. the us invasion of south vietnam jersey that phrase in the media. i mean we invaded south vietnam john f. kennedy in one thousand and sixty to. authorize you bombing of south vietnam the u.s. air force authorize napalm. authorized chemical warfare to destroy corrupt. started driving. peasants into what were called strategic hamlets

basically concentration camps where they were surrounded by barbed wire to protect them from the guerrillas who the government of very well they were supporting what we call that of someone else did it but it's now fifty years over fifty years i doubt that the phrase invasion of has ever peer approval you could hardly get to tell it to her and state would apparently be able to achieve such conformity in fact probably wouldn't be able to and this is at the critical does and talking about the ones who said that was a noble cause it were a step back and which incidentally obama pretty much has but it's become so sophisticated and i don't know if it's just because i'm younger and i've seen it you know just in the last ten years and in the post nine eleven world the media sophistication in. my question is you know with the internet and the advancement of

technology do you see or inverse all of this trend where more people are just going to be making this form of media and propaganda irrelevant or do you see it worsening some of the the internet gives options but options of which is good it's good more options but. the print media gives plenty of options you could read dissident journals if you wanted to the internet means you can read them faster ok that's good but you know if you think back. of the shift from. see the in the invention of the printing press was a much greater step forward than the invention of the internet that was a huge change the internet is another change smaller one and it's. it has multiple characteristics so on the one hand it does give access to

a broader range of commentary information if you know what to look for you have to know what to look for. and it also provides a huge mass of material which is. we'll put it politely off the wall. how isn't a person without the background framework understanding isolated loans in his living room design another form of propaganda that education you've said that you know the more indoctrinated you are i'm sorry the more educated you are the more doctor you are and that. propaganda is largely directed toward the privileged how dangerous is it to have an elite ruling class but the illusion of knowledge perpetuating it advancing their own worldview on humanity and it's just as perpetual feedback loop of the ruling class as old as the hills and there have always been that every society has had some form of privileged

elite who claimed to be repugnant tories of understanding and knowledge and. want to control what they call the rabble make sure that they like the people who say we want to be ruled by countrymen like ourselves you know the people stores not the knights and gentlemen who do better presses they don't want people to have thoughts like that so therefore they are major propaganda systems it's kind of striking that propaganda is most developed and most sophisticated in the more free societies the public relations industry which is advertising industries mostly propaganda lot of it commercial propaganda but also you know control that developed in britain in the united states to freest societies and for good reason it was understood for centuries that

people have won enough freedom so you just can't control it by force. well you therefore have to control the beliefs and attitudes the next best thing it all has been done but it took that kind of a quantum leap forward but a century ago with the development of these huge industries devoted to. their leaders put it the engineering of consent. if you read the founding documents of the p.r. industry it is he says we have to make sure that the general public are incompetent or like children if you let them run their own affairs you will come to trouble. the world has to be run by the intelligent minority. and we therefore have to control we have to rigid many people's minds the way an

army regiment should soldiers for their own good just as you don't let a three year old run in the street you can't let people run their own affairs. get these countries like yourselves. who know the people who are going to be in real trouble. that's a standard idea and it's taken one or another form over the centuries. and in the united states it's institutionalized into major industries. and not so hopelessly enslaved than those who believe that they're free and that was go through said that thank you so much dr chomsky amazing this and front of you and take the time to talk to you about all these things are thanks to shit. and i'll leave it on that powerful now as always thanks for watching and i'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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