of over one hundred books the last fifty years dr chomsky has worked on his mit office where i sat down with him surrounded by large stacks of books papers and memorabilia he has collected over the years and it eighty four years old dr chomsky is as sharp as ever he was able to articulate his unique viewpoint on everything from media propaganda to the war on terror so without further ado my one on one with dr noam chomsky. so much for taking the time to meet with me it's a great honor to be sitting here and we're in boston cambridge actually about you know as someone who was a living in the aftermath of the boston bombing the chaos what did you think of the police and media response to them well the. i hate to second guess police tactics but my impression was it was done so that they didn't have to be that degree of militarization of the area maybe they would do maybe it's kind of

striking that the suspect they were looking for was found by a civilian after they lifted the curfew just noticed some blood on. the street and could. have done so about police to the media it was concerned. it was twenty four hour coverage on television on the channels and also just zero in on one tragedy whilst ignoring the tragedies incurred well in fact across the months and two days after the. boston bombing there was a drone strike in yemen. one of many but this one we have to know because the young man from the village that was hit testified before the senate a couple of days later described and right at the same time and what he said is.

interesting. relevant he said that his village which is nice they were trying to kill somebody in his village they said the man was perfectly will. prevent what he was. a drone strike his terror weapon we don't talk about it but it is just imagine if you're walking down the street and you don't know whether in five minutes. there's going to be a explosion across the street from some place in the sky that you can't see and. somebody will be killed and whoever else is around will be killed and maybe you'll maybe you'll be injured if you're there that just as a terror weapon terrorizes. would use regions huge areas effects the met most massive terror campaign going on longer and what happened in

the village is that according to the testimony senate testimony that he said that the jihadi had been trying for years to turn the villagers against the americans. and had not succeeded he said and one drone strike turned the entire village against the americans that's you know maybe a couple hundred new people who will kill terrorists if they take revenge it's a terror generating machine it's a terror to terrorist operation and a terrorist generating machine so it goes on and on and it's not just the drone strikes sources special forces and so on well that was right at the time of the boston marathon and it's just one of in the memorable cases and it's this is more than that this. the man who is the man who was targeted for whatever reason they had to target him. that's just my first lester's murder there are

principles going back eight hundred years to magna carta holding that people cannot be. punished by the state without being sentenced. speedy trial of peers that's only eight hundred years old. they have their excuses but i don't think they really apply a bit beyond that there are other cases where which come to mind right away or should i wear a person is murder who could easily be apprehended. with severe consequences the most famous one is. bin laden he was there were. years of special forces trained mabel's navy seals broke into his invaded pakistan. broke into his. compound.

killed a couple people captured him he was defenseless i think his wife was with him but the. hundred structure just murdered him through his body into the. ocean. with. that that's one of the beginning of the apprehension of bin laden and the assassination and dumping his body in the ocean and of course the narrative completely fell apart. and also you've said that you know in the aftermath of nine eleven when the taliban said we will give you bin ladin if we if you present us with evidence which we didn't do we did. i mean their proposal was moving sure he could have pursued it but why are people so easy to accept conventional wisdom government narrative with virtually no question here and here a drumbeat as conventional. propaganda in my view takes

a research project to find other things and of course at the same time as the boston bombings in iraq thought almost of the deadliest week in five years i mean april is the deadliest month and in a long time more that trust is going on every day the suicide bombings yet seen as zeroing in on this tragedy when at the same time our foreign policy is causing this affects these effects in iraq as i mention macor to which is eight hundred years but there's also something else which is about seventy years ago the nuremberg tribunal which is the foundation is part of the foundation of the modern international law and it defines aggression. as the supremes international crime differing from other work crimes in that it encompasses all of the evil that follows the u.s. british invasion of iraq was

a textbook example of the aggression you know the question about it which means that we were responsible for all the evil that follows like the bombings serious conflict has spread all over the region that the region is being torn to shreds by this conflict well that's part of. part of the evil that follows the media's lack of coverage with everything that you're speaking on and i know that america runs on this national of an american exceptionalism but is america's severe lack of empathy unique or do we see this in every country in every just growing up in america and we just you know are isolated with our own viewpoint i think it's true . every great power that i can think of britain was the same france was the same year many was unless a country's defeat like when germany was defeated in the second world war it.

was compelled to pay attention to the atrocities carried out but others don't. in fact it was an interesting case this morning which was i was glad to see it and it was finally there are trials going on in guatemala for. rios montt was basically responsible for the virtually genocidal destruction of the mines and the us was involved in it every step of the way finally this morning there's an article saying that something was missing from the trials the us role which is good i'm glad your course reigned in the school of americas do you think that we'll ever see white war criminals from imperialist nations stand trial in the same way that it was not it's almost impossible to look at the i.c.c. international criminal court black africans or other people the west doesn't like. them in the bush and blair would be right up there there's no crime reason

a crime worse than the invasion of iraq. obama for the terror war but these it's just inconceivable in fact there's legislation in the united states which in europe is called neverland's invasion the congressional legislation signed by the president which authorizes the president to use force to rescue any american brought to the hague for trial. i mean this is. cool you know that i speak you know the drone wars i can't help but think of john bellinger the chief architect of the drone policy who was speaking to a think tank recently and he said that obama's ramped up the drone killings simply to avoid the bad press of getting out of capturing suspects alive and trying to get now when you hear things like this what is your response to people who say his hands are tied he wants to do well that's right it was pointed out some time ago.

will street journal military correspondent what he pointed out is that bush's technique was to. capture people and torture them. obama's improved you just kill them and anybody else who's around it's not that his hands are he's a i mean that's a much more. it's bad enough to capture them and torture them but just. murder on executive whim and as i say it's not just murder of the suspects there are weapons or as everyone knows. that's not that anyone's hansard that's what he wants to do right rather be detained indefinitely and then be blown up as well as my family and friends around me. and to her as everyone else. there's. there are recent polls which. sure the

public and the results are kind of interesting. though they don't. particularly like you around but they don't report it as a threat it's very low they do see. it in egypt and they react. yeah the united states is the major threat. is real slow to us but basically the us report is a major threat why is that why would you gyptian should refuse and you know many overeager the united states is the greatest threat. well it's worth knowing. stick around don't have much more from my interview with dr tom feeney after the break. some of these traditional chili lines. down from generation.

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her she. says. welcome back eyes here's the rest of my sit down with noam chomsky. the controversial bamma policies obviously the national defense authorization act the n.d.a. which you're a plaintiff on the case you've also said that holder view humanitarian law is actually worse you know providing material support for terrorism do you think that both of these policies are just caught a fine practices that are that have already been in place for decades. is pretty much cut a fine practices that have been employed it was a little went a little beyond the court case in fact is narrow it's about the court that went beyond. authorization to imprison american citizens indefinitely without trial that. and that's

a radical violation of principles of go back as i said eight hundred years i don't see frankly much difference between. imprisoning american citizens in the prison anyone else they're all persons but we make a distinction that distinction was. extended by the end of the humanitarian law project ground there was a concept of material support for terrorism already sort of a dubious concept because what's how to decide what's terrorism well that's an executive women again there's a terrorist list created by the executive branch without review without anyone having a right to contest it and if you look at that terrorist list it really tells you something so for example nelson mandela was on the terrorist list until three or

four years ago the reason was that in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight when the reagan administration was strongly supporting the apartheid regime in south africa effective. overruling congressional legislation in order hate it they declared that the african national congress it was one of the more notorious terrorist groups in the world that's mandela that's one nine hundred eighty eight barely before apartheid finally collapsed and he was just on the terrorist list until then. to take another case in one thousand nine hundred two when iraq invaded iran the u.s. was supporting erratic and wanted a new iraqi invasion to saddam hussein was taken off the terrorist list it's not a terrorist given right. well it's you know it's its

executive whim to begin with we should. take it seriously but that was putting that aside material assistance meant you know you give me a gun like that under the obama administration it's you give them and we'll talk with the linguistics and language of the war on terror what it obama's rebranding a bush administration policy did a public consciousness. the policy of murdering people instead of capturing them in torture in the. can be presented to the public in a way that makes it look clean it's presented i think most people see it this way as a kind of a surgical strike which goes after people who are planning to do us harm. and this is a very frightened country terrified country has been for a long time so if anybody's going to do us harm it's fine for us to kill them and some of the reactions are how this is interpreted is quite interesting for example

that was the case a year to when a drone attack in yemen killed a couple of little girls and it was a discussion with. a well known liberal columnist joe klein. time and he was asked what he thought of it and he said something like. it's better that for them or killed four of four little girls here. so because i mean the logic is mind boggling but if we have to kill people elsewhere who might conceivably. have aimed to harm us and it happens a couple little girls get killed too that's fine we're entitled. i mean i suppose any other any country is doing that. to any anyone we regard as human.

cruel but this is very common and i remember once when right after the invasion of iraq the. thomas friedman new york times the middle east specialist columnist was interviewed on the charlie rose show you know sort of intellectuals through the disk. as asked what we ought to be doing in iraq and i wish i could you got to see the actual words to grasp it but basically what it was what he said isn't like this he said. american troops or to smash in. to houses and. make people understand that we're not going with terrorism. he said suck on this we're not going to allow terrorism in our society you've got to

better understand it so these terrorized women and children in the bus or a bag have to be. humiliated and degraded and frightened so that because so that it won't attack us i mean it's mind boggling that's the peak of the liberal intellectual culture supposedly and we have famous like richard dawkins saying that as long as long as one of the greatest threats facing humanity i mean that's a whole nother form of propaganda the liberal elites perpetuating this not of this neo con sort out of the much for. all the media i want to talk to you about that because obviously that's instrumental in manufacturing consent for these policies i mean your book media control was written a decade before nine eleven yet it outlines exactly how sophisticated the

propaganda model is when you wrote that book did you have any idea how far it would come and where do you see it in ten years. for it it didn't take any force because it's been going on for a long time i mean take. the us invasion of south vietnam jersey that phrase in the media when we invaded south vietnam john f. kennedy in one thousand and sixty two. you bombing of south vietnam the us air force all through as napalm. authorized chemical warfare to destroy corrupt. started driving. peasants into. what were called strategic hamlets basically concentration camps where they were surrounded by barbed wire to protect them from the guerrillas who the government of very well they were supporting what we call that of someone else did it but it's

now fifty years over fifty years i doubt that the phrase invasion of his ever pure approaches you could hardly get to tell it to her and state would apparently be able to achieve such conformity in fact probably wouldn't be able to and this is at the critical does and talking about the ones who said that was a noble cause as it were step back you know which incidentally obama pretty much has but it's become so sophisticated and i don't know if it's just because i'm younger and i've seen it you know just in the last ten years and in the post nine eleven world the media sophistication and. my question is you know with the internet and the advancement of technology do you see or inverse all of this trend where more people are just going to be making this form of media and propaganda relevant or do you see it worsening some of the you know the internet gives options but options of which is good it's good that more options but. the print media gives

plenty of options you can read dissident journals if you want to do the internet means you can read them faster ok that's good but you know if you think back. of the shift from. say the in the invention of the printing press it was a much greater step forward than the invention of the internet and that was a huge change the internet is another change a smaller one and it's. it has multiple characteristics so on the one hand it does give access to a broader range of commentary information if you know what to look for you have to know what to look for. that also provides a huge mass of material which is. to put it politely off the wall.

how isn't a person without the background framework understanding isolated loans in his living room there's another form of propaganda is education you've said that you know the more indoctrinated you are i'm sorry the more educated you are the more doctored you are and that. propaganda is largely directed toward the privileged how dangerous is it to happen only to the ruling class but the illusion of knowledge perpetuated in advance in their own worldview on humanity and it just this perpetual feedback loop of the ruling class today's world is the hills and there are always been. there ever since it is had some form of privileged elite who claimed to be repugnant tories of understanding the knowledge and. want to control what they call the rabble

make sure that you like the people who say we want to be ruled by countrymen like ourselves and of the people sort of not the knights in general who do better presses they don't want people to have thoughts like that so therefore there are major propaganda systems this kind of striking that propaganda is most developed the most sophisticated in the more free societies of the public relations industry which was advertising industries mostly get a lot of it commercial up again but also you know full control that developed in britain and the united states two koreas to so i was and for good reason it was understood perfectly a century ago that people have one enough freedom so you just can't control them by force. well you therefore have to control the beliefs and attitudes next best thing it always has been done but it took a kind of a quantum leap forward about

a century ago with the development of these huge industries devoted to. their leaders put it the engineering of consent. if you read the founding documents of the p.r. industry it is he says we have to make sure that the general public are incompetent they're like children if you let them run their own affairs you will come to trouble. the world has to be run by the intelligent minority. and we therefore have to control we have to rigid many people's minds of the way an army regiments that soldiers for their own good could just as you don't let a three year old run in the street you can't let people run their own affairs. and get these countries like yourselves. who know the people sort of you're going to be

in real trouble. and that's a standard idea and it's taken one or another form over the centuries. and in the united states it's institutionalized into major industries. and so hopelessly enslaved than those who believe that they're free and that was go if you said that thank you so much dr chomsky amazing this and front of you and take the time to talk to you about all these things are thanks appreciate it. and i'll leave it on that powerful now as always thanks for watching and i'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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