i mean. i know that i'm secretly really messed up. in the all very sort of silly. it's a little worse for the little. white house or the. radio guy and for a minute. what. did you ever seen anything like that i'm telling. you it's not guys i'm adding mine in contemporary times of consumerism and superficial commentary philosophy seems like a dying art which is why i'm excited to share an in-depth conversation i just have a dr noam chomsky philosopher linguist professor of political critic and author of over one hundred books the last fifty years dr chomsky has worked out of his mit office where i sat down with him surrounded by large stacks of books papers and

memorabilia he has collected over the years and it eighty four years old dr chomsky is as sharp as ever was able to articulate his unique viewpoint on everything from media propaganda to the war on terror so without further ado my one on one with dr noam chomsky. so much for taking the time to meet with me it's a great honor to be sitting here and were in boston cambridge actually but you know as someone who was a living in the aftermath of the boston bombing the chaos what did you think of the police and media response to them well the. i hate to second guess police took the. impression was was it. that there didn't have to be that degree of militarization of the area maybe they're maybe not it's kind of striking that the suspect they were looking for was found by

a civilian after they lifted the curfew just noticed some blood on the street but. i have to say that police tactics as far as the media was concerned. it was twenty four hour coverage on television on all the channels and also just zeroing in on one tragedy whilst ignoring the tragedies incurred in fact i was crossing the film is after the. boston bombing there was a drone strike in yemen. one of many but this one we have to know because the young man from the village that was hit testified before the senate a couple of days later described and right at the same time and what he said is. interesting. relevant he said that his village which is nice

they were trying to kill somebody in his village they said the man was perfectly will. pretend that what he was. a drone strike is a terror weapon we don't talk about it but it is just imagine if you're walking down the street and you don't know whether in five minutes. there's going to be a explosion across the street. from some place in the sky that you can't see and. somebody will be killed and whoever else is around will be killed and maybe you'll maybe you'll be injured if you're there. just as a terror weapon it terrorizes. religious regions huge areas effects the met most massive terror campaign going on long and what happened in the village is that according to the testimony senate testimony that he said that the

jihadi had been trying for years to turn the villagers against the americans. and had not succeeded he said and one drone strike turned the entire village against the americans that's maybe a couple hundred new people who will kill terrorists if they take revenge it's a terror generating machine it's a terror to terrorist operation and a terrorist generating machine so it goes on and on and it's not just the drone strike sources forces and so on well that was right at the time of the boston marathon and it's just one of innumerable cases and. this is more than that this. the man who is the man who was targeted for whatever reason they had to target him. that's just my first officer's murder there are principles going back eight hundred years to magna carta holding that people cannot

be. punished by the state without being sentenced. speedy trial of peers that's only eight hundred years old. they have their excuses but i don't think they really apply a bit beyond that there are other cases where which come to mind right away or should i wear a person is murder who could easily be apprehended. with severe consequences the most famous one is. bin laden he was there were. years of special forces trained mabel's navy seals broke into his invaded pakistan. broke into his. compound. killed a couple people captured him he was defenseless i think his wife was with him but

to. under instructions that just murdered him through his body into the. ocean. with. that that's one of the beginning of the apprehension of bin laden and the assassination and dumping his body in the ocean and of course the narrative completely fell apart. and also you've said that you know in the aftermath of nine eleven when the taliban said we will give you bin ladin if we if you present us with evidence which we didn't do we did. i mean their proposal was move sure he could have pursued it but why are people so easy to accept conventional wisdom government narrative with virtually no question here and here a drumbeat of conventional. propaganda in my view takes a research project to find other things and of course at the same time as the boston bombings in iraq thought almost of the deadliest week in five years i mean

april is the deadliest month and in a long time more that trust is going on every day the suicide bombings yet seen as zeroing in on this tragedy when at the same time our foreign policy is causing this affects these effects in iraq as i mention macor to which is eight hundred years but there's also something else which is about seventy years ago the nuremberg tribunal which is the foundation as part of the nation as modern international law and it defines aggression. as the supremes international crime differing from other work crimes in that it encompasses all of the evil that follows the u.s. british invasion of iraq was a textbook example of aggression you know the question about it which means that we

were responsible for all the evil that follows like the bombings serious conflict that has spread all over the region that the region is being torn to shreds. well that's part of. part of the evil that follows the media's lack of coverage with everything that you're speaking on and i know that america runs on this national of an american exceptionalism but is america's severe lack of empathy unique or do we see this in every country in every just growing up in america and we just you know are isolated with our own viewpoint i think it's true. every great power that i can think of britain was the same france is the same there are many but unless a country's defeat like when germany was defeated in the second world war it. was compelled to pay attention to the atrocities carried out but others don't. in

fact it was an interesting case this morning which was i was glad to see that in fact it was finally there are trials going on in guatemala for. rios montt was basically responsible for the virtually genocidal destruction of the mines and the us was involved in it every step of the way finally this morning there's an article saying that something was missing from the trials the us role which is good i'm glad your course reined in the school of americas do you think that will ever see white war criminals from imperialist nations stand trial in the same way that it was not it's almost impossible to take a look at the i.c.c. international criminal court black africans or other people the west doesn't like. them in the bush and blair or the right up there there's no crime reason a crime worse than the invasion of iraq. obama for the terror war

but these it's just inconceivable in fact there's legislation in the united states which in europe the school be neverland's invasion the congressional legislation signed by the president which authorizes the president to use force to rescue any american brought to the hague for trial. i mean you know this is. the world you know and as i speak you know the drone wars i can't help but think of john bellinger the chief architect of the drone policy who was speaking to a think tank recently and he said that obama's ramped up the drone killings simply to avoid the bad press of getting out of capturing suspects alive and trying to get now when you hear things like this what is your response to people who say his hands are tied he wants to do well that's right it was pointed out some time ago but will street journal military correspondent what he pointed out is that bush's

technique was to. capture people and torture them. obama's improved you just kill them and anybody else is around it's not that his hands are he's a i mean that's a much more. it's bad enough to capture them and torture them but just to murder on executive whim and as i say it's not just murder and suspect there are weapons there are there are windows. that's. but he wants what he wants to do right rather be detained indefinitely and then be blown up as well as my family and friends around me. or is it everyone else. there are recent polls which. show the public opinion the results are kind of interesting. they don't. particularly like to run but they

don't report it as a threat it's very low they do see. it in egypt and they react. yeah the united states is the major threat. is real slight. but basically the us report is a major threat why is that why would you gyptian these are you know many. of the united states is the greatest. worth knowing. stick around i have much more from my interview with dr chomsky after the break. some of these traditional chili lines the bridge into bill passed down from generation. this is a total destruction of the culture of mexico by telling them i mean this is not going to impact asylum in mexico whatever happens here.

in the world. and so. why do you think this country is full of obese and sick people because we have a crappy food. more news today violence is once again flared up. these are the images the world has

been seeing from the streets of canada. china operations are all day.

welcome back eyes here's the rest of my sit down with noam chomsky. the controversial policies obviously the national defense authorization act the n.d.a. which you're a plaintiff on the case you've also said that holder v humanitarian law is actually worse you know providing material support for terrorism do you think that both of these policies are just caught a fine practices that are that have already been in place for decades. and. is pretty much fun practices that have been employed it was a little went a little beyond the court case and is narrow it's about the port that went beyond. authorization to imprison american citizens in definitely without trial.

and that's a radical violation of principles that go back as i said eight hundred years i don't see frankly much difference between. imprisoning american citizens in a prison anyone else they're all persons but we make a distinction that distinction was. extended by the end of the humanitarian law project ground there was a concept of material support for terrorism already sort of a dubious concept because what's how to decide what's terrorism well that's an executive women again there's a terrorist list created by the executive branch with that review without anyone having a right to contest it and if you look at that wrist list it really tells you something

so for example nelson mandela was on the terrorist list until three or four years ago the reason was that one thousand nine hundred eighty eight when the reagan administration was strongly supporting the apartheid regime in south africa effective. overruling congressional legislation in order hate it they declared that the african national congress it was one of the more notorious terrorist groups in the world that's mandela that's one nine hundred eighty eight barely before apartheid finally collapsed and he was just on the terrorist list until then. to take another case in the one nine hundred eighty two when iraq invaded iran the u.s. was supporting iraq and wanted a iraqi invasion to hussein was taken off the terrorist list it's not a terrorist given right. well it's you know it's its

executive whim to begin with we should. take it seriously but there was putting that material assistance meant you know you give them a gun or something like that under the obama administration it's you give them advice let's talk about the one with sticks and language of them want to hear what obama's rebranding of bush administration policies did a public consciousness of the the policy of murdering people instead of capturing them and torturing them. can be presented to the public in a way that makes it look clean it's presented and i think most people see it this way as it kind of a. surgical strike which goes after people who are planning to do us harm and this is a very frightened country terrified country has been for a long time so if anybody's going to do us harm it's fine for us to kill them and

some of the reactions or how this is interpreted is quite interesting for example that was the case about a year or two ago when a drone attack in yemen killed a couple of little girls and that was a discussion but with. a well known liberal columnist joe klein he writes for time he was asked what he thought of it is and he said something like . it's better that four of them are killed than four of four little girls here. so because i mean the logic is mind boggling but if we have to kill people elsewhere who might conceivably. have aimed to harm us and it happens a couple little girls get killed too that's fine we're entitled. i mean suppose any other any country is doing that. to any anyone we regard as human.

it's. credible but this is very common i remember once when right after the invasion of iraq. thomas friedman new york times middle east specialist columnist was interviewed on the charlie rose show you know the sort of intellectuals through the. rose asked what we ought to be doing in iraq. i wish i could. see the actual words to grasp it but basically what it was when he said something like this he said. american troops ought to smash in. the houses and. make people understand that we're not going with terrorism.

he said suck on this we're not going to allow terrorism in our society you better understand it so these terrorized women and children the. have to be. humiliated and degraded and frightened so that because so that. the that goes i mean it's mind boggling that's the peak of the liberal intellectual culture supposedly and we have famous like richard dawkins saying that as long as long as one of the greatest threats facing humanity i mean that's a whole nother form of propaganda the liberal elites perpetuating this not of this neo con sort out of the much for. all the media i want to talk to you about that because obviously that's instrumental in manufacturing consent for these policies i mean your book media control was written a decade before nine eleven that it outlines exactly how sophisticated the

propaganda model is when you wrote that book did you have any idea how far it would come and where do you see it in ten years for it it didn't take any force because it's been going on for a long time. and take. the us invasion of south vietnam curiously that for isn't the media. i mean we invaded. john f. kennedy in one thousand sixty two. bombing of. the u.s. air force authorized napalm. authorized chemical warfare to destroy crops. started driving. peasants into what were called strategic cam which basically concentration camps where they were surrounded by barbed wire protect them from the guerrillas who the government knew very well they were supporting

what we call that of someone else did it but it's now fifty years over fifty years i doubt that the phrase invasion of was ever poor oppressed you can hardly i think it to tell what terry and state would barely be able to achieve such conformity probably wouldn't be able to and this is at the critical does it in the end talking about the ones who said there was a noble cause and were step back. which incidently obama now pretty much has but it's become so sophisticated and i don't know if it's just because i'm younger and i've seen it just in the last ten years and in the post nine eleven world the media sophistication and my question is you know with the internet need dance and technology do you serious first all of this trend where more people are just going to be making this form of media propaganda relevant or do you see it worsening i mean the internet gives options but options of which is good it's good

more options but. the print gives plenty of options you could read this in general if you wanted to the internet means you can read faster ok that's good but you know if you think back to the time of the shift from. see the in the invention of the printing press was a much greater step forward than the invention of the internet that was a huge change the internet is another change smaller one and it's. it has multiple characteristics so on the one hand it does give access to a broader range of commentary information if you know what to look for you have to know what to look for. and it also provides a huge mass of material which is. we'll put it politely off the wall.

how isn't a person without the background framework understanding isolated loans in his living room design another form of propaganda is education you've said that you know the more indoctrinated you are i'm sorry the more educated you are the more indoctrinate you are in that. propaganda is largely directed toward the privileged how dangerous is it to have an elite ruling class with the illusion of knowledge perpetuating it advancing their own world view on humanity and it just as perpetual feedback loop of the ruling class he's old as the hills and there's always been that every society has had some form of privileged elite who claimed to be repugnant tories of understanding and knowledge and. want to control what they call the rabble make sure that they like the

people who say we want to be ruled by countrymen like ourselves and of the people stores not by knights and gentlemen who do better presses they don't want people to have thoughts like that so therefore there are major propaganda systems it's kind of striking that propaganda is most developed and most sophisticated in the more free societies the public relations industry which is advertising industries mostly propaganda a lot of it commercial propaganda but also you know control that developed in britain in the united states to freest societies and for good reason it was understood for centuries that people have won enough freedom so you just can't control it by force. well you therefore have to control the beliefs and attitudes next best thing it always has been done but it took a kind of

a quantum leap forward about a century ago with the development of these huge industries devoted to. their leaders put it the engineering of consent. if you read the founding documents of the p.r. industry. is that we said we have to make sure that the general public are incompetent like children if you let them run their own affairs you will control. the world has to be run by the intelligent minority. and we therefore have to control we have to reject many people's minds the way an army regiments of soldiers for their own good could just as you don't let a three year old run in the street you can't let people run their own affairs. and get these countries like yourselves. who know the people who are going to be in

real trouble. and that's a standard idea and it's taken one or another form over the centuries. and in the united states it's institutionalized into major industries. and so hopelessly and slaves and those who believe that they're free and that was go if you said that thank you so much dr chomsky amazing this and front of you and take the time to talk to you about all these things are. pushing it. and i'll leave it on that powerful now as always thanks for watching and i'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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dog called. an f.b.i. agent kills attach a manned reporter to. one of the boston bombing suspects. with police last month. hurting for cash and bleeding in debt.