the investigation into the machete murder of a soldier in london's east timor rest while the alleged motives behind what's considered a terror attack spark controversy among the british public and politicians. cars and buildings a blazing windows smashed unprecedented violence continues for a fifth night an immigrant suburb of stockholm with questions over whether it's time for sweden to stop being so tolerant. go take a knife defeat stick it in a man's back nine inches deep until about five inches and say we're making progress . on the u.s. war on terror rebranded striving to show that efforts are winding down president obama announces steps to speed up one ton of closure but defends targeted killings

with drones just unnecessary. and i welcome you watching r.t. with me andrey farmer. now the investigation into the harrowing machete murder in london has seen police arresting two more people on suspicion of conspiracy to murder that is the two men who apparently had to death a british soldier in broad daylight remain in hospital one of them was recognized by a former radical preacher as a man who converted to islam around a decade ago meanwhile the local community is still reeling from the brutal attack as r.t. sara firth now reports from london. a flag at half mast a grizzly attack with a machete style knife and a murdered soldier his death leaves behind a two year old son the seemingly behind this priest

a max seeking to bring scenes of violence usually seen in war ravaged parts of the world to the london suburb of in a poignant interview r.t. spoke to an army officer he told us of the reaction among some in the armed forces to remain anonymous anger of the moment. not scared maybe scared you never get someone to. be scared i witness accounts of the priests attack details the men chanting is the missed logan's as the body of soldier drama leverage be a second battalion the royal regiment a few celebs they only pleading they asked people to video then if you listen to the words of the attackers themselves it's clear that they will wish to bring the war which they saw prosecuted on the streets of baghdad and kabul to the streets of london to speaking at

a press conference london mayor boris johnson okayed many senior political figures by trying to distance this latest act of violence from the recent data seize exploits this is not a question of blaming the religion of islam it is certainly not a question of blaming any aspect of british foreign policy or what our british troops are do in operations abroad when they risk our lives on behalf of all of us the london mayor in charge at the time of the london two thousand and five bombings disagrees they are lying they are completely complicit with the united states policy to cite tony blair was with george bush they are prepared to stand and say well we think this strategy has been a disaster it has been just announced not just for the young man killed on the streets of london but for the hundreds of thousands of. people in afghanistan and in iraq who've been killed a simple reality if you invade other people's countries they come back it's one

side of an argument but one that's going to be weighing heavily on many now that this has hit so close to home you feel less secure i think that's one ace. you think if we were out there that perhaps they'd be more space scope for al qaeda to produce the cells they'd be operate more within the u.k. because when we're out there we're constricted in space and not allowing them that freedom of maneuver and that means their base of operations over here was weak but also the arguments from my youth because we're out there were inspiring them or motivates in them our presence out there is sort of motivating the selves back in the u.k. to operate more and carry out more attacks as the police investigation continues a deep sense of guilt and outrage from the local community here in southeast london at that briefly attack and they sentiment echoed across the country as people struggle to come to terms with how

a crime like that could happen here so artsy london the more parallels are being drawn between the alleged motives behind the savage london murder and those outlined by the boston marathon bombing suspect from the message your heart is and i have left in the boat he was hiding in he claimed the terror attack was in retribution for us crimes against muslims and in a video message one of the london machete killers also says the attack was an eye for an eye because of british soldiers killing muslims every day another similarity in both cases it seems is the alleged terrorists acted individually and were not part of a terror network early and my colleague bill dodd discussed this with artie's in italy. it looks like we're looking at something of a new phenomenon the so-called open source jihad there's a website out there it's actually periodical online magazine which provides all sorts of recipes for disaster literally for example how to make a bomb in the kitchen of your mom from the chef and you can use

a pressure cooker in order to do that it says the ingredients are readily available they're not going to cause any suspicion if you're going to purchase them and you will basically get away with murder literally now this is not the only recipe that's out there so to speak they're also talking about techniques to wipe out large numbers of people there are also a dish there's also an addition on how to blow up buildings and so on and so forth as a matter of fact the even have in addition targeted. muslim women and suicide bombers and it's positioned as of lifestyle and fashion magazine and it sounds almost borderline observateur or or on the border would really funny but it's not because literally there is a plethora of information out there on the internet and it basically teaches people how to kill other people and yet you annoy we can access this security services doing about this because clearly they know where it's who covert from go they do something absolutely yes it does seem like they're actually keeping track of in

some instances we know that in both cases the killers as well as this one i brothers were under the radar but the main question of course is why didn't the authorities do anything to prevent the attacks from happening because we're looking at an enormous a number of young men primarily of. muslim faith who are out there reading these websites and they're the target audience of these websites and they can essentially be their own terrorist leaders so you'd think they would be under the cap of the authorities and yet there doesn't seem like the authorities have done anything to prevent these attacks from happening of course to keep people from dying and that is the main problem that we're facing here right now. and earlier we spoke to an intelligence expert glenmore turney harvey who explained why such attacks and near impossible to predict and prevent even though our security service and my five were aware of these two perpetrators it is almost impossible to predict when people suddenly just almost by happenstance

choose the time and place and there's poor unfortunate. was the target usually walk to the security services will monitor the internet traffic the telephone the mobile phones all of these people and try and follow them to see if there is a pattern and if they are associated in this particular instance the reason they're referred to as lone wolves apparently they didn't have associates they were not part of the planning process we'll learn more as the investigation goes along but this is what is so absolutely terrible someone can be preaching hatred in one instance and not just to muslims of course because the english national league are preaching a gates muslims they are also preaching hatred but it's an additional

step to go from preaching about it to taking the terrible acts action which happened. as always we are eager to hear your opinions on the stories we are covering in today we are asking what might have motivated the brutal murder in london this is how are you are voting at the moment over half of you fifty six percent believe it is blowback against u.k. wars abroad nineteen percent if you believe it was an act of violence by mentally deranged men sixteen percent of you there believe it was an isolated act of homegrown terror and the remainder that's just nine percent say that it was an act of terror orchestrated by foreigners now you can have your vote all you have to do is go to r.t. dot com.

a city on fire that has become the common scene in stock and where riots have raged for a fifth night in a row young people in immigrant suburbs of the city have torch car smashed windows and set buildings a blaze the violence has sparked a debate on sweden's open immigration policy which has resulted in an influx of asylum seekers who many say refuse to integrate artie's peter oliver has this report. nice neat and normal not the type of place you would expect to see this. horse be on the outskirts of stockholm and the epicenter of sweden's issues with race and that's bubbling over in sweden you get welfare you get access to the education system up to university level you get access to public transport to libraries to health care to everything and still they feel that they need to throw

stones or molotov cocktails it's ridiculous it's a bad excuse the violence in the usually peaceful city has become a political football. democrats are exploiting these events they make it all about immigration to suit their needs they see being anti immigrant is being produced region for the past week stone throwing in car burning become the norm in this part of town known for its high unemployment predominantly immigrant population all sparked after a sixty nine year old man was gunned down by police while brandishing a knife that let loose a barrage of emotions it's the state that creates this type of ghettoization they move everyone from abroad into these parts of town when it comes to unemployment sweden is below the average however almost one quarter of under twenty five's are out of work prompting some to say it's time for further action saying

a lack of control by government has led them to this situation the police can put the ride down in five minutes if the politicians were to allow them although swedes defer over what caused this week's violence they are in agreement that it's government policy that must be changed to avoid scenes like this being repeated on the streets of stockholm peter all over r.t. sweden. and is the rise continue to rip through stockholm some claim the violence has clearly been orchestrated for tyria motives that is the opinion shared by lars he got he works for a swedish paper if you look at similar instances in other parts of europe you'll see him eventually that there is a plan behind that some people would want to gain recognition as the stakeholders in society in other words people who would want to be in a goshen a negotiating position these are the authorities and so if they can sort of make

things happen and make them go away this proves they have in the local community and they are people that you have to reckon with element behind of course much of this these are immigrants the and of course we've got a reputation for opening its doors to immigrants surely that multiculturalism is something that sweden has been successful at over the past so why should that be going wrong while has not been successful i mean you can see that right now there's been a. it's been an ideology that's been disseminated by the ruling elites actually that this was a great success and. a great experiment a model for the rest of the world the fact is that these and by it's that are now spreading around the country i don't know if they will continue for a long time but they certainly demonstrate that this success

was once was a fiction it never succeeded. you're watching our back in a couple of minutes but before that let's have a quick look at what's on our web site at the moment a massive quake has struck the russian far east but it has created. as opposed to in the country. plus coming in from the. north. grid lumbered sure. to build a new. mission to teach music creation why it should care about humans. this is why you should

care only. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so. understand it. and realize. welcome to the big picture. welcome back now five years after promising to shut down the guantanamo bay prison

president obama has finally announced specific actions to one day make that reality the statements came during a speech where he or he also made it clear america's war on terror which one town america has become a key symbol of will be winding down but at the same time the u.s. leader defended targeting suspected terrorists with drones as just and necessary a washington correspondent dan has been following obama's address. president obama says he's appointing new people new on voice at the state department and the pentagon who will specifically work on the transfers of guantanamo detainees it is not really specify when the transfers will begin or how this will be done but he did say the administration is lifting the ban on transfers to yemen the yemenis are the largest single group of prisoners at guantanamo six out of eighty six detainees who've been cleared for release are from yemen and president obama also says he asked congress to lift restrictions on bringing the detainees to the u.s.

to be tried by military commissions here in the state looks like after all these years of inaction indifference and injustice one ton of detainees finally got to president obama's attention whether it was just really sad that it took a massive hunger strike and so much physical suffering for them to be heard remember we've heard president obama talk about closing the prison five years ago nothing happened moreover he signed a law that made indefinite detention legal he shut down the office of the state department that was working on the transfers and just two months ago a pentagon official was in congress asking for nearly two hundred million dollars to renovate the prison so just a little while ago the prospect of closing the prison seemed so very distant and now it seems we could be seeing some action on the part of the administration but president obama has never been a guantanamo fan his preferred strategy is targeted assassinations the administration has been very secretive about how they determine the targets innocent people have died in those strikes and it has contributed to the growth of extremism in places like pakistan but we've heard the president mitigate the

adverse effect that the drone strikes are having he of course underscored that the drones keep u.s. troops out of the battlefield he spoke extensively about how much he likes drones as opposed to other military strategies at one point he said putting u.s. troops on the ground would trigger an international crisis would lead to more anger among the locals which begs the question where the bombing from air does not trigger an international crisis or whether the local somehow like being bombed more than being shot it the u.n. has questioned the legality of the use of drones and here's how the president addressed the issue america cannot take strikes wherever we choose our actions are bound by consultations with partners and respect for state sovereignty. america does not take strikes to punish individuals we act against terrorists who pose a continuing and imminent threat to the american people when the president talks about consultations with other countries one should mention that you have the whole

population of pakistan its parliament unanimously opposing the drone strikes so the administration may be in consultation with the governments of those countries but obviously not the people there the president said this wednesday he signed a presidential policy guidance on the use of drones which is supposed to lead to the establishment of some guidelines oversight and accountability now also on the issue of legality the administration still operates under the congress authorization for the use of military force adopted in two thousand and one which says the u.s. is at war with al qaeda and its affiliates based on the threats that the president talked about in the speech and he talked about the threat coming from al qaeda a few different parts of the world the war on terror is still on and the drones are here to stay so obama's failed first term commitment to shut down guantanamo bay has started another laugh but a former detainee from the camp beg told us he believes the u.s. is trying to get away with a crime and be thanked for it. i don't think anybody's going to be singing the

praises of obama any time soon because he's already made a promise for two years ago that he would close the little words of malcolm x. you don't take a knife stiff gets to get a man's back nine inches deep and pull five inches and say we're making progress if they are cleared for release and why don't you release them now why are you going to start the process it could well take a year or more we want the criminals they were the criminals the criminality was done against us torture is criminality kidnap is criminality rendition is criminality torture is criminality all of these things were done to us we didn't do this thing but we were interrogated by the world's most powerful law enforcement and intelligence agencies and after years of all this we still had no charges against us and after years of all of this prisoners still the overwhelming majority of them of still no charges against them so it's simply not even worth discussing anymore. obama's eyeing clad way of battling terrorists sparked a heated debate during his speech in washington one point the president was step was stopped in his tracks by an angry audience member early my colleague i've

across the outlined what made the woman break upon the script something that that we haven't seen really before was that the presidential veneer of the the obama veneer was punctured somewhat by a heckler in the audience and i think we can have a listen and have a look at how about adultery about you when you went on to. we went on. and. i. were dressing. the heckler was media benjamin of code pink with the heckling itself and that it took place is

a real indication of. angry people are as far as we could pick up on the audio she she she pretty much addressed every element of obama's obama speech so she called on him to compensate families who have been destroyed by joint strike drone strikes and she called on them to close guantanamo bay called called on him to release the prisoners who have been set for release for up to ten years from the camp but he dealt with he's a consummate performer and he dealt with it very well as any politician of his stature would he be point to the fact that free speech allowed this lady to have an opinion and he felt she went on a bit and i think about stagey after a minute or so we've had certainly had enough for me the key takeaway is. the policy of the man drone strikes it needs to be changed obama is definitely trying to move responsibility for growing strikes drone strikes out of the shadow of the cia and into the department of defense and he's certainly trying to do something about guantanamo but i think the key takeaway the key lesson is that these two

elements of u.s. policy of the so-called war on terror are absolutely unsustainable now speaking of obama's drone base war on terrorism foreign policy analyst off the con i mean and feels the u.s. is intent on justifying the killing machines despite the fact they have proven to be counterproductive. one of the reasons why i think they're ratcheting back to drone war is because international law issues involved here because central intelligence agency is a civilian organization and according to the geneva conventions civilians cannot be involved in an actual warfare in the shooting part of warfare and cia assisted living organizations i think that's one of the reasons why they're moving to the defense department to sort of cover themselves on the possibility of being charged for violations of international law and the geneva conventions according to the sort of independent evaluations of the impact of the drone strikes fewer than two percent of the bomb in

a terrorist leaders al qaeda leaders accept or have been killed by these drones the majority of people are really hard to say i mean a lot of them are civilians and then the drone war has not been a great success and it has generated a huge amount of anger in the rest of the world unfortunately not a great deal in the united states makes that happen not to more discuss america's future of fighting terrorism in breaking the threat and here's a quick preview. americans are deeply ambivalent about war. but having fought for our independence we know a price must be paid for freedom a price for freedom a let me just break down how costly this so-called freedom has just been in the last twelve years over six thousand six hundred u.s. servicemen and women have been killed in iraq and afghanistan but the civilian death count is much more grave in yemen and pakistan drone strikes have killed

almost three thousand four hundred people so that's a really heavy human cost for that so-called freedom and i'm not even talking about the six trillion dollar price tag of the afghanistan and iraq wars according to a new harvard study so has the war on terror really been keeping us free what other well known constructs that obama outlined in his foreign policy speech today. a quick look at other international news now in the lebanese city of tripoli syria linked fatah and says raged into a six day with gun battles between sunni fighters and members of the other white community at least twenty four people are reported to have been killed and dozens injured fighting between sudanese who support the uprising in neighboring syria and other whites who backed president assad have been particularly face in recent days reports suggest the army could be about to move in. british airways plane made an

emergency landing at london's heathrow airport after an engine problem all of those on board were safely evacuated a passenger managed to take a picture clearly showing a major malfunction of one of the engines the airbus was carrying seventy five passengers and flying to oslo but was forced to turn back shortly after takeoff. and a spectacular fire broke out in a fuel death row north of brazil's capital rio de janeiro at least one person a forty three year old man was killed in the inferno six giant fuel containers at the storage site ignited sending flames soaring up to fifty meters high forcing five fighters to evacuate nearby schools and houses according to officials the owner of the depo petra gold had lost its license to operate but continued working pending a court appeal. if you have access thirty minutes time next day people of l. is here with crossed on.

paranoia and zero tolerance policies strikes yet again the latest in a string of children being punished for making gun noises or playing with toy guns involves a son of a us marine who had the audacity as a child to use his imagination and p. pretended his pencil was our gun banger children imitate what they see on every t.v. channel and in many video games kids are going to see a lot of guns in fact the boy at that moment was admirably pretending to be just like his father a us marine you know guns kind of come with that job description rather than complain you all again about the obvious idiocy of zero tolerance policies against children playing let me give one suggestion to actually help fix the problem there

are so many teachers and school administrators across america that i bet many of you know one of them try talking them about the madness of zero tolerance a lot of people do things just because they were told to or they never thought about it before so please dear friends try to get teachers you know to actually think about it i can complain on t.v. all day long but one conversation from a friend or relative really could change many people's minds maybe but that's just my opinion. leave me.

alone and welcome the cross talk for all things are considered i'm peter lavelle suicide bombings experience drive central authorities losing control and a great sense of despair in the lack of enfranchise from not only describing syria but also iraq the recent spike two bombings and terror attacks in iraq have many concerned the country could collapse into civil war it would appear this part of the world has no shortage of shock and awe as a result of western backed military interventions. cross-talk iraq i'm joined by my guest in washington michael o'hanlon he is a senior fellow at the brookings institution. journalist at antiwar dot com and we also have graeme smith he is director of institute for research middle eastern policy right cross talk rules and effective means you can jump in anytime you want kelli i'm going to cut to the chase is iraq going into civil war sectarian civil

war well as we've seen in the last week or so we've seen an alliance with the sunni . factions in iraq with the al qaeda backed factions in syria so we are starting to see what worse peaceful sunni protests in iraq turned violent and i think if that's a bellwether for things to come where we are we're seeing peaceful protest turned violent because of al qaeda stepping up its attacks the violence i think there was almost four hundred my know there was seven hundred killings of civilians in iraq last month up to four hundred this week i think so if that's any indication. now looking at michael not any good indications coming out of iraq is the country in a state of collapse well i don't know if it's in collapse or civil war i agree with the way kelly put it that things are very worrisome so i'm not going to try to

predict the inevitability of collapse or civil war i think that would be a big mistake and not yet warranted by the evidence and i think the rockies have a great reluctance to return to the horrible days of where they were just a short time ago so if anything we do have that factor working in our favor that iraq ease are going to resist returning to all out sectarian conflict because they've lived it they've seen it and they know that if they return to that there is no particular reason to think it will stop there's no intervening party no outside force that's going to stop at this time however there mistrust for each other especially among political leaders is a lot more intense than it was just two or three years ago and that makes it harder to prevent the descent into worse things so. that the u.s. the u.s. supports the political arrangement in iraq a lot of people would call it a dictatorship how do you react to that. it's moving way too closely

towards autocracy for my taste i think that prime minister maliki has made some big mistakes in the last few months that have essentially exceeded his power i think he's put out arrest warrants for example for people who were patriotic iraqi leaders because he had political disagreements with them mr assad is a good example a very good man a man i've met a man i've respected i think a sunni but also a nationalist a person who wants to serve his country and unbelievably maliki wanted to have him arrested that sort of thing is extraordinarily destructive and so i share the concern i get i i'm not going to use words quite as strong as the ones you're using but i share the concern that we're headed in directions we don't want to go and that maliki is acting in an autocratic fashion ok grant jump in i mean the u.s. started this mess in the first place go ahead yeah i think michael o'hanlon predictive not too long ago that we'd see devolution in the shias stand sunni stan

and kurdistan entirely predictable when you go into a contrary with strong central authority remove it remove the army and let all hell break loose basically over a period of years of various ethnic cleansing in the population of areas of refugees of course i mean entirely predictable and what neither of them have mentioned is there's absolutely no sign that this is going to stop anytime soon so i think we're really reaping the whirlwind of what was essentially a huge scam perpetrated on the american people to get them to go into this country and we haven't learned anything from it at all kelly would you like to pick up on that scam and we haven't learned anything. well i think i think ryan crocker recently former ambassador to iraq said it best when he described our our

ethos and the american ethos we we go in there we knock things about we break things and we pledge to rebuild and when we find that it's a little more difficult than anticipated we we leave and i think that says it all i mean when you have somebody in a stablish me a figure saying that who is ascribing to us our inability to follow through on our promises that that says a lot and i think that's exactly what happened we went in there the invasion didn't really go as planned we will be done soon and understand me government that's an understatement there's an understatement but what i'm getting to is is not only did the military let's take the military side out of it we have not been able to help reconstruct that country and there are so many metrics that i can go on for days

but you know i think if i could make my point i think if you want to look at the best measure of failure success is look at the children in iraq and i think if a country success is based on whether it can provide educate and keep its children safe if we apply that to a rack we're looking at that failure and i do not think is that his that is what we set out to do every magic trick whether it be education mental health safety we that there are failing miserably in iraq that is our legacy there and that in that is what we are going to have to face in years to come you know michael and colin powell's that if you break it you own it so let's apply that to iraq. well there's a lot to talk about on iraq and i know where we're mixing in a lot of different periods of time in our discussion and a lot of different issues you know i was

a critic of some parts of the iraq mission i was a supporter of some parts of the iraq mission i'm a little less critical than grants of the idea that we. quickly left or you know somehow or the as kelly just said that we didn't have staying power i mean i think we left a little too soon but we were also there for a very long time and part of what this underscores is just the inherent difficulty so on that point i do agree with ground inherent difficulty of going it was mistaken grant go ahead joe if that's what the debate is about if that's what the debate is about that this is going to go there but let me just finish one point with ok go ahead michael finish your point go ahead. yeah i mean i think the frankly the moderator you may need to tell us which issue you also want to debate because i think there are a lot of different things we're telling our king about the iraqi state that's what we're talking about that was in the introduction that ok it was clear that was that was your word which i disagree with my point is if the iraqi stay were already

collapsed and we were just going to revisit the ten years of history then we that's one debate i would actually rather think about how we can try to avoid the collapse which i do not believe do you think the united states should go back into iraq it was should the u.s. go back into iraq then you break it you won't it not militarily no not militarily but you're conflating the very unfortunate events of the last few months and last couple of years in iraq with the dog days of two thousand other times i'm not i'm saying it was perfectly predictable this ok grant you want to jump in. yeah here's here's the key metric the bottom line is if you take brown university's cost of the iraq war metric this is what americans care about by the way the united states net present value investment through twenty fifty in iraq is now six trillion dollars a lot of that money flowed into crony contractors that said they were going to build

schools and institutions and government in a box and all of that crap it never happened americans have been left on the hook for the equivalent of an entire half year of g.d.p. this was basically taking what could have been productive investments in education housing infrastructure building in the united states and throwing it into an iraqi burn pit and now to add insult to injury we have this country that again our invasion was a scam the american people were given a series of different hoaxes and frauds for why they needed to go in now we're left. hearing the same talking points from the same people who got us into there about what we should do next i think the scary thing is is that a lot of the institutions that were so gung ho to get into iraq have turned of course our attention to iran that could cost of the entire year's worth of g.d.p.

do invade and fail and so i think this conversation that we're having needs to be a little bit broader and connects the key concerns here in america which is which are basically why is our policy making so. so terribly broken ok michael you would like to reply about any parts of that. well there are a lot of thoughtful parts of what grant said and we share some of the same concerns some different concerns but i actually i'm going to put the question back to you mr moderator to tell me what question you most want to focus on today because if we're talking about the decision to invade iraq i mean that we have got to be saying is what happened the entire event the war years and now we have this that was perfectly predictable isn't it ok the surge the fall surge and now we're seeing it again good it's not that simple go ahead then reply ok if the

issue now is what do we do about iraq today no we're not going to return militarily that's absolutely the united states are all going through what has happened in iraq partially ok but i think the more what's it going to do what to do about it now well what should we do about it you know excuse me what should we do about it i miss the what should we do about it that's what i was trying to say a minute ago. do we have a time lag on this communication trying to answer that question but only looks like you don't really want to but you don't want to answer the question all right well wasting time here we're going to get i can't get how it would show a short break here and when we return we'll continue our discussion on iraq stay with hockey. those are.

some of these traditional chilly lines they've been bred into bill passed down from generation. this is a total destruction of the culture of mexico by telling them i mean this is not going to impact asylum in mexico whatever happens here. we're. in the in the know in all the border and so are. genetically engineered crops why do you think this country is full of obese and sick people because we have a crappy food system. wealthy british style. that's not on the tires on.

the. market why not come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike stronger or a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to conjure reports . they played in a family jazz band together. and say hijacked a plane together. just sent them from music to terra. twenty five years old questions still remain. just bad hijack. a clear image of iraq after invasion. twenty day taxi trip through the country.

the roads full of danger. clear evidence from north to south. the route of iraqi tragedy. after the war waiting for peace. taxi on r.t. . choose your language. call it make you know if. someone. chooses the the consensus hit i can. choose to defend against that invigorating to . choose the stories that impact your life choose me access to your office. please.

welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter about to mind you we're discussing events unfolding in iraq. we still have kelly and grant michael decided to leave the program i guess he didn't like the questions grant you want to jump in right now all right you know yeah this is the problem in the united states we don't have rough and tumble conversations like this between informed analysts so you know i'm not surprised that michael hamlin decided to leave but you know let's just think about his think tank is a microcosm of the iraq invasion problem in two thousand and two the brookings institution was a centrist progressive think tank that didn't have a strong line about iraq what.