welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter about to mind you we're discussing events unfolding in iraq. we still have kelly and grant michael decided to leave the program i guess he didn't like the questions grant you want to jump in right now all right you know yeah peter this is the problem in the united states we don't have rough and tumble conversations like this between informed analysts so you know i'm not surprised that michael hamlin decided to leave but you know let's just think about his think tank is a microcosm of the iraq invasion problem in two thousand and two the brookings institution was a centrist progressive think tank that didn't have a strong line about iraq what happened early spring of two thousand and two israeli

american media mogul haim so bond moved in carved out this a bond center at brookings by paying thirty million dollars and suddenly martin in the uk and all of the people that unit war on the war path for going into iraq and so a person like o'hanlon who's been flip flopping about was that good was it bad he no longer has much of a track record to even talk about the current problems because he was part of creating this current problem so i'm really not surprised that he bailed out it took a lot of manipulation to get the united states into what i call iraq scam and the brookings institution o'hanlon or part of that so no longer he doesn't want to defend it kelly you know. one of the i wish michael had stayed because i want to talk a little bit about syria right now and we're repeating the same mistakes i think

it's pretty obvious yes. do you mean like in terms of what the u.s. policy is moving forward yeah i really like interrogating possible intervention or are mean looking for governments after the fact you know all of these things. well you know i'm going to you know i might differ from what that what you're thinking i think that the obama administration seems to be a little bit more skittish about intervention i don't know how i don't know if that's having a good or a bad effect in terms of what the long term fall out from that is so i'm not sure i don't think what you say when what i'm saying what i'm saying is here is that syria is a sick carian society is well ok are they are they looking at it in the right way grant jump in here because these are different types of societies and let's yeah go ahead yeah let's look at let's look at what's behind us policy in the region

because this cut to the chase when the bush administration came in it had a lot of acolytes of the israeli clean break plan which is a thirty four point plan for the stabilize iraq the stabilize syria stop the peace process between israel and palestine and a whole bunch of other things this was a laundry list that they brought into the bush administration from their standpoint from the standpoint of all of the organizations including a pac the american israel public affairs committee that lobby on this stuff that are the dominant driving force in iraq is a success it's a success that it's been neutralized that it's no longer a threat and syria is becoming a success quite quickly it is weaker by the day israel can fire off missile attacks from the periphery and it can sound the alarm that israel is in danger so if people like michael o'hanlon and his backers like bonn were honest about this

they would be overjoyed with what's happening in each of these countries ok but this is what i think maybe the short term you may be right i understand your thinking but kelly it doesn't work out that well does it the unintended consequences is what i'm. getting at no i'm yeah i mean if you don't mind just going back to iraq you know and i kind of wanted to answer this before but you know the fact that we we have left that country so unstable and if the if if if things really blow up in syria and it looks like it's going that way we there's already masses of refugees coming back into iraq from syria because remember there's three million refugees iraqi refugees from our war that have gone into syria and jordan lebanon and other places now they're being forced to come back the ones from syria so we have an unstable situation where there's lack of

food education and health care and iraq we have add more refugees to that plus the instability of the sectarian violence where you have the sunni al-qaeda in iraq joint making alliances in syria creating all sorts of of violent opportunities there we have not left a country that is able to take care of itself and libya is a good example is libya little libya is a good example about right so you know before mike left i when michael left you know i wanted to point out that we're not talking about just the past here i mean some of that's going to bring into i'm sure thank you kelly thank you very much because that's what i was trying to explain to him go ahead yeah. yeah we're talking about the president what kind of country did we leave behind is it able to take care of itself when you have all of this instability happening just over the border did we leave

a government in control there the maliki government that is looking you know the best interests of its own people or is its best interest in iran so i don't all accounts we failed there because if the goal was of the search for example was to create a space for political reconciliation and stability in that country it failed because we have neither there and on an end another note he said well what are we supposed to do well how about no we don't want to put troops back there i don't think anybody wants to do but they've reduced the foreign aid from like twenty billion in two thousand and five to about a billion now ok u.s. taxpayers are probably saying listen we need to take care of our own right now but this just goes with the with the the ongoing theme that we've reduced our aid we've reduced the state department presence there we've we've reduced the actual on the ground attempts to help them rebuild their government has nothing to do with

military has all to do with helping them build rebuild their institutions so they can take care of themselves when crisis is at the door you know grand reconciliation was supposed to be very important but the americans dropped the ball there because the surge is you know there really wasn't a surge ok girlhood was ethnic cleansing go ahead. right yeah i don't i don't buy that whole surges victory and that's been adequately debunked by many many analysts but you know the united states' attention shifted quickly from sort of the fraudulent cantera. hospital building road building things that never got completed to immediately promoting the sale of new wings of sixteen fighters and also also it's a very high tech equipment billions and billions of dollars in the military sales authorization pipeline and so the strategy of pivoting out of the country leaving

all of these fraudulent projects to collapse but then drumming up support for major military sales as been complete you know kelly it's very easy i mean this is a very rich country with oil but you can't even benefit from its own oil to this day really absolutely and if you if you look on the news today a rock is poised to double its oil production by two twenty twenty so the oil is being produced but it's only going to a few lucky alit whether it be the corporations which are international corporations or the government elites it's not finding its way to the people you know you have a situation and where one in four children are malnourished malnourished that's unacceptable for a country that is enjoying these these oil these the fruits from the oil industry

so there's twenty five percent of iraqis are living below the poverty line. less than half of children aged twelve to seventeen are even going to school you have your friends some say it's up to upwards of three million orphans in iraq right now and the state is not. even investing and proper orphanages that are free of scandal so you have these state run orphanages that just want to make you cry because the children are being so mistreated unicef came out with a report just recently that said one in three iraqi children do not have fundamental rights meaning they don't have access to health care and education are free of abuse whether it be a home. you know so we would never tolerate that here in the united states we would never tolerate you know the nearly seven hundred children killed in violent attacks

since december but yet we turn away from it because it was our responsibility and we did drop the ball and i'm just afraid that it can't you know me good graces granted it is a rock fixable in any way you can consider it is fixable you know there are there are two things. there are two things that did right number one when we were trying to put in permanent military bases all over the country treat it like a call in the they said no they did that right and then the second thing they did right was what we were trying to hammer them into selling off their oil fields instead of doing production sharing agreements where companies would come in and exploit already discovered oil they said no they said you know that's not the way we're going to do it so they've shown a sense of autonomy and intelligence in terms of not being a colony and not giving a little grand how about being just a clip about being

a clone talk or see if they've done pretty well in that area well you know that. well that can certainly happen just about anywhere peter and i don't knock them for that to the extent to the extent they're not going to be able to high sudden developments of absolute clipped ocracy i think there is hope you know iraq is an incredibly educated society yes and there is hope that civil society can can take control once a legitimate indigenous government is allowed to to allow them to come forth twenty seconds can i get me give me a prognosis twenty seconds well well i'd just like to say that when you have such a massive brain drain of the academics and health professionals during the war who have not returned the educated society doesn't look very educated anymore and it's not their fault all right i want to think nice to get your remaining bottom line and i want to thank my two guest it remained in washington and i want to thank our

viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember. you will. carlo. gave. it to.

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. the failure of u.k. security services to prevent the beheading of a soldier in london puts them under scrutiny as the islamists threatens to further divide british society. draw it's right for a fifth night install cone with schools and cars set on fire police have pleaded for reinforcements to contain violence in the swedish capital. and evolution of the war on terror again values to shut. the cia aged drone strikes is heartbreaking but necessary.