n.s.a. whistleblower edward snowden's left hong kong reportedly on board a commercial flight in a russian airspace believed to be heading for a country to seek asylum. headed we're tracking reports of snowden's movements some sources suggesting he's already in moscow and bound for venezuela via cuba. and some other renowned whistle blowers and washington's failing efforts to cap the torrent of secrets being unleashed. four pm in moscow i'm at treasure bring you today's top stories and a look back at the week's news n.s.a. whistleblower wanted by the u.s. edward snowden may already be in russian airspace after reportedly boarding

a moscow bound flight from hong kong we're closely tracking the flight that reportedly has snowden aboard here you can track its movements in russian airspace it said though that he won't stay in moscow being suggested he may go to cuba and then possibly on to venezuela but no clear confirmation of his final destination at the moment let's cross now to our tease paul scott who's standing by live at sheremetyevo airport with the latest so there's a lot of information being thrown around right now nothing's really pinned down please give us the latest that you. try and do that for you still with the one thing that we do know and that is that edward snowden has left hong kong has departed the chinese territory as you say his exact whereabouts at the moment is one of the suggestions is that he's arriving here in moscow. on a inbound flight from hong kong due to arrive at five fifteen moscow time that is just one of the suggestions now how is all this been allowed to happen it was only on friday that the challenged. by the u.s.

government made public now those charges include theft of government. communication of national defense information and willful communication of classified communications intelligence now the final two of those charges come under the espionage. of ten years in prison each. suggesting that they would be prepared to work with the u.s. government to start and begin extradition proceedings however they needed securities and guarantees that the charges against edward snowden were not politically motivated so the suggestion is that they felt the charges against him were. i'm not his why he has been allowed to slip out of the chinese territory now it's not fool it's that he. wiki leaks say that they have organized this whole thing on. exit from hong kong. the paper on the flights and they're trying to secure him asylum in what is being described as a democratic state. democratic state could be only

be using moscow as a transit as a temporary stop before. the russian foreign ministry. suggested that edward snowden is indeed only using moscow as a transit so rumors and speculation. as to his exact whereabouts but this is just in is one of the suggestions is he could be due to arrive here in moscow fifty using it. all right our paul scott live for us. thanks very much for that update. of course we have other information that's being batted around like we've said there's another suggestion entirely different that he's already here in moscow and right now at the ecuadorian embassy in talks with the ambassador there to be offered asylum in that country for a. say who's standing by outside the embassy tell us more on that aspect of this story. maj just as we we've heard from

a postcard there that he has a left hong kong of course we have sort of the same that he's actually on his way to moscow aspace now what we do know from our sources have also told us that he doesn't have a russian visa which means that he's only going to be transiting into one of the other countries here that could only mean that an embassy and the reason we're actually outside at the ecuadorian embassy is that there's also been rumors circulating that perhaps the he might be going with the ecuadorian embassy route do we say this because as we know one of the biggest cases of the last couple of years are the whistleblower julian assange who was given asylum by the ecuadorian embassy itself now of course of this is just rumors at the moment we don't know anything much as yet of the only thing we do know is that the embassador of the ecuadorian embassy has just left speaking to us saying that he has no comment he can say anything to us you know he's nothing but he has left the building now i want to

remind our viewers about the julian assange just story he of course was the one to in his sweden for charges of a sexual assault of which he had gone to court numerous times to try and say that if you do you want me come here i'm in london speak to me he of course lost that case and in twenty twelve june he decided to us was silent at the ecuadorian embassy in london now it's been a year over a year with him in the ecuadorian embassy recently trying to get authorities or to speak out so he can leave the ecuadorian embassy in london of course ecuador had said back in the twenty twelve when they took out that statement to say why they had given julian assange to that asylum bed set that they feel that he was those fears that he may go to sweden and then actually die to where he may face all charges and he would not have a fair trial against those that he meet with the military as well as different cables now in that statement that they would or an embassy release in twenty twelve they also. said that they feared that he may be subjected to unfit was meant as

well as humiliation hence they will go forward and give him at that asylum now of course the reason was that most speculation about edward i can indeed give snowden that asylum is because that at the door has already done it before and they've done it with the world's biggest whistleblower so right now it's all speculation it's all india what we do know is that he is in russian as space and what happens next we'll keep you updated back to you matt all right thanks very much our teams to bang much outside the ecuadorian embassy with that. well for more on all of this and some more. analysis and perspective i'm joined by glenmore trainer harvey he's joining us live from london with his perspective on this so we've heard reports that he could be already in moscow at ecuador's embassy do you think should he requested asylum there would be granted. i don't think

that he's going to apply for asylum in russia although president putin said he would look favorably on that i think the whole thing is that the american government must have breathed a sigh of relief that he has left hong kong because they would not then get into conflict with the people's republic of china and i think the fact that the aeroflot aircraft which was due to arrive at one o'clock london time in moscow that what will happen he will be in transit i imagine that certain officers of the s.p.r. in f.s.b. will talk to him and i'm pretty sure the americans know what his plans are because after all as a result of project nonny i mean project can pour out the whole thing of valence they will probably know whether he is talking with his supporters

in iceland in venezuela or in ecuador and remember we have julian assange the originator of wiki leaks who is currently held inside the ecuadorian embassy in london so. i think the thing is that the united states would be very worried if they had to negotiate with russia. and take a mark i mean the thing is now he's been charged with espionage and theft so he's not being charged as a whistleblower in point of fact the charges against him are such that an international warrant can be issued for him now if he chose his route from hong kong specifically it seems to avoid going to any countries where he could be extradited to the u.s. but do you think there is still a legal grounds to be made for getting him at some point intercepted on route.

well i've must say that i think a little like you i thought that it's a long way to go to wherever he is ok here is the moment that he left china. he then went into russia now space so there's no way of being intercepted. but at the same time whether he goes to iceland it's a fairly short hop or certainly if he goes to south america it could be in the most extreme situation that could be intercepted by that would cause such an international for rory i don't think it's going to happen my own bet if it comes down to personal preference remember that snowden had been stationed in hawaii a tropical situation in venezuela must look really quite attractive given the anti

u.s. stance of the. government so i my my money would be indeed. on venezuela and briefly to wrap up do you think that he will eventually inevitably be brought to the u.s. for prosecution or do you think that he could put that off indefinitely. he will obviously he and his supporters will put it off indefinitely but the united states just like russia has a very long memory they also have people who. could indeed. take people out of different countries so i don't think he will ever be safe i think he will always be looking over his shoulders and certainly the u.s. government who've been so embarrassed by this will not give up easily glenmore trainer ari intelligence analyst thanks very much for your time. thank you all

former m i five agent any mashal and says the u.s. gives it the image of being a global aggressor you know there's been so much in the western media for the last few years about the chinese hacking all our systems and everything they must be very pleased to have evidence that in fact the u.s. is doing the same to them so they can push back so i think that's a good place for him to go and i think the irony now is that it's the u.s. that we fellows have to fear it's the u.s. that we should close have to leak from because of course at the moment the bomber administration is waging a war on whistle blows not just ed snowden but also people like bradley manning and his awful trial in conditions and also a whole range of other whistle blows from the cia and in the n.s.a. for example john kiriakou at the cia who exposed the u.s. to the program is the one currently languishing in prison for thirteen months not the torture it's so i think the irony that people have to fear the u.s. when all they're trying to do is expose the crimes of the u.s. must be better and i think edward snowden's choice of refuge demonstrates very much

that the u.s. is currently the bully will have the world. snowden is not the first whistleblower to be pursued by of u.s. government washington's attempts to prosecute alleged traitors intensify each time the blacklist grows. explains the incur this encourages more leaks of information america is split on edward snowden traitor hero mix in between but regardless of what anyone thinks about snowden his revelations have shed unprecedented light on the u.s. government's massive spying program even if you're not doing anything wrong you're being watched and recorded a former n.s.a. employee william binney was prosecuted as a traitor when he blew the whistle on the government's sweeping collection of data and communications it's setting up at the tele tarion state. when the government has that much information they can do those things they can use the i.r.s. to intimidate people or anything else they can send the f.b.i. people what they did to me and some others bradley manning to is being prosecuted

as a traitor although it's still his war logs that the public learned about the. collateral murder it was committed in iraq the obama administration has prosecuted more whistleblowers under the espionage act than all previous administrations combined but it was a lower say it's not government persecution that they fear the greatest fear that i have regarding the outcome. for america of these disclosures is that nothing will change the administration is not trying to convince the american people that government secret programs are a trade off they have to make in the name of national security they always have the same stories about you know science manning's known you know psychological stories what is wrong with these people cause them to do this i mean the real question is what is wrong with everyone else from who doesn't see what they can see but it was a blowers are not the only targets there is an obligation both moral but also legal i believe against

a reporter that was the chairman of the house committee on cutting teligent and terrorism peter king calling to punish the journalist who exposed the government surveillance programs in its hunt fully eeks the obama administration has already targeted its it's trying to set the precedent. the communicating with the media is the same as communicating with the enemy and it's a death penalty offense the administration doesn't have to go after each for each card in that it's enough to create an environment of fear but will that fear stop information from coming out here is that we're to know that answer to that question . conan response is simply build better whistleblower he said in washington i'm going to take a course rois are interested in what you think about the stories we're covering here on r t and that's the why we're putting out our online web poll that we're asking you to take part in this time the topic is what do you think about your personal data being surveilled on by security agencies all right now here is how the vote is stacking up the overwhelming majority seventy three percent saying that

spying on people is unacceptable in any circumstance seventeen percent saying they have no opinion because they're thinking there are answers are being tracked and they don't want to have put out one way or the other seven percent saying it's justifiable surveillance if it's looking for terrorists and bad guys and trying to bring them down and three percent saying there's nothing wrong with it whatsoever they're looking for the bad guys and i have nothing to hide but what do you think lied on to argy dot com and cast your vote of course we've got plug much more coming your way here on r t about this we're speaking with investigative journalist paul lashmar plus we're taking a look at what hides behind the support shown by many u.s. companies for the government surveillance program that and more after a short break stay with us. wealthy british style.

markets why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you don't know i'm tom harpur welcome to the big picture.

thanks for staying with us seventeen minutes past the hour now we're covering our developing story this hour n.s.a. whistleblower edward snowden reportedly on a route to moscow or possibly already here after leaving hong kong sunday morning we're closely tracking that flight that allegedly snowden is aboard here you can see the plane moving through russian airspace on approach to moscow being suggested he may then go to cuba and then on to venezuela from there but no clear confirmation of his final destination at this point now let's get more on snowden's likely fate the rest again of journalist paul lashmar thanks very much for joining us here on r t so news of him leaving hong kong snowden leaving hong kong has sparked speculation on where he's going any educated guesses on your part well it was surprising because i think most people thought he was going to stay in hong kong but something has happened i don't think anybody other snowden and perhaps the

home called authorities know exactly what. i would presume that he has also been in communication with he's intending designation and certainly to go through russia this place he must look to the russian embassy so you know i think we we don't know but it would make sense that q group venezuela all of the past will we choose be popular here fool julian assange who's been sitting in the ecuadorian embassy in london for nearly a year now waiting to go to that come three what do you think the odds are that he may actually follow us on his route and go to ecuador. i think it's reasonably high goes they could or in government have this position i think venezuela is a bit more unstable at the moment since the death of chavez and the nature of relationships with other countries isn't so clear but i could go i think is being a fairly firm about this sounds position so i would guess it would be

a good end this the mission for snowden over that do you think is moscow's are on all this just a convenient transit point or do you think they were somehow involved in negotiations that went on behind the scenes i think they must be because i don't think if i was edward snowden that i would fly to moscow without being pretty clear that i was going to be welcome there because i might file myself sent off to another country which may have an extradition agreement with the united states do you think snowden is immune in his travels even over russian airspace or do you think that the u.s. for example could intercept him on a route at some point while traveling over another country for example. i think if he's been thinking about this at all and he's taken advice he will not fly in an air over a space where the united states can require let's cross to land and him being taken into custody. and do you think that in the long run the u.s. for example would to get him inevitably back to the states for prosecution to be

faced or do you think that he could put that off indefinitely should he stay at another in another country without an extradition treaty i think he could put it off indefinitely i think some kind of. snatch him in another country would go down very badly i mean the problem for the united states is is that the material he's releasing while it confirms one suspicions is quite damaging you know the fact that extensive surveillance it looks like extensive surveillance of other nationalities particularly in china and also all u.s. citizens a question of whether u.s. citizens and you case it to have has come up with this which is making a lot of people worried concerned send it to have you arrested would be probably not a very smart move in my estimation now we've seen snowden get a lot of public support something obviously he had counted on by going to hong kong

and speaking out before any possible action against him do you think that something in the long run that could make a country like the u.s. reevaluating its stance on whistleblowers seeing this outpouring of support that he's getting. well i think it is making a lot of people in the merica uneasy there is a discussion but i think the american society is that the government will seek to prosecute you to this i don't think they're going to say thanks for bringing this to our attention we think we've probably been going too far thank you now here i don't think that's going to happen. thanks very much journalist paul offner live for us from the u.k. i appreciate your comments. on wavering support of many u.s. companies for the government surveillance program leading some to some difficult questions are taking a look at what might be in it for the firms involved. the story certainly raises

more questions than it answers as my colleague reported earlier we know now that thousands of companies have been sharing sensitive information with the u.s. government in exchange for various benefits now this raises concerns about the extent of the private sector collaboration with the u.s. government not to mention questions about what exactly those benefits were now the details may be murky at this point but let's go over exactly what information we have now companies who did hand over data to the government got a big thank you that's according to michael hayden who used to head the cia as well as the national security agency which runs of course the prism program and mr hayden told bloomberg this if i were the director and had a relationship with a company who was doing things that were not just directed by law but were also valuable to the defense of the republic i would go out of my way to thank them and give them a sense as to why this is necessary and useful all right well what kind of thank you exactly are we talking about here well again not

a lot of details but anonymous sources did tell bloomberg that leaders of the companies who handed over data to the government were showered with attention and information by government agencies in fact in some instances that meant quick warnings about the threats that could affect their bottom line for example serious internet attacks and who's behind them of course this exchange of information is supposed to be voluntary and while at this point we don't exactly have evidence that this is not the case but while most of the companies seem to have participated simply because the government asked them for help one former c.e.o. paints a slightly different picture in two thousand and one when some telecom giants allegedly were asked to participate in an n.s.a. information sharing program one company qwest initially refused to play ball and according to court documents filed by its then c.e.o. joseph nacho as a result of that decision the company was denied lucrative n.s.a. contracts he believed to be worth fifty to one hundred million dollars retaliation

he says for refusing to partake in the government's spy program. so to sum it up companies that share data are into government goodwill information about threats possible classified information and of course there's concern that those who did not play along could could have been left out of lucrative government contracts of course we don't have more information on this but that's per syslog the point the lack of transparency about this data swap is a major concern now it's done in the name of security but at what cost and to whom this account for not reporting for our team in moscow among your word snowden's leaks the revelation that british and u.s. intelligence allegedly spied on world leaders at a g twenty summit in london four years ago so heads of state including then russian president medvedev apparently have their computers monitored phone calls tapped evidence also suggests fake internet cafes were set up to gather data but this doesn't surprise you going forward a political analyst and former m.e.p.

at the end of the ninety's he raised the issue of a secret u.s. project targeting e.u. citizens called echelon and he believes the u.k. is long been a tool for harvesting information. certainly in the past we've we've learned the cues to military friendship can more easily arash would serve the irish peace process and some of these spots throughout britain with france or by britain's position of new york and union absolutely could be expected there but there are going to be monitoring with the g. twenty and i'm g.h. events to kind of such a operation why the stunning news that t.c.h. sometimes doesn't even get to see what it downloads for the americans some of the some of the material downloaded from satellites i actually just fed directly to fort meade in the united states and we get sort of bits of it back so we're or at kay's account a subcontractor who's teaming up with us and of course it will give the green light to grist for the world to do the same thing why why should china or or anybody else

be concerned next time the americans complain that maybe some was going to have hearings on where the information from him or its again on the positive industrial scale where the chinese are actually is crawford is the best there i'm a good stay with former wessel blower and director of corruption watching u.k. and here feinstein live in just a few minutes. download

the official publication. choose your language stream quality and enjoy your favorite. if you're away from your television just. now with your mobile device you can watch on t.v. anytime anywhere. thanks for staying with us we're continuing to update you on our breaking news this hour n.s.a. whistleblower edward snowden reportedly on route to moscow after leaving hong kong on sunday morning closely tracking the flight that reportedly has no wooden aboard on the map you can see the plane already approaching the russian capital due to land in about forty minutes time that said though snowden won't be staying in

moscow or it's not thought that he will be hill reportedly go from there to cuba and then on to venezuela but there been other suggestions about his final destination for all this let's cross now to our t's paul scott who is standing by at moscow's sheremetyevo airport with the latest. yes maam perhaps understandably edward. keeping us guessing as to his exact whereabouts the one thing we do know is that he has left hong kong not much has been confirmed but he self is quite interesting because initially the hot suggested they were prepared to work with the u.s. government to begin extradition proceedings against snowden after he leaked the details of the operation by n.s.a. the hong kong authorities suggested that they wanted. to. really that the case against snowden was not politically motivated so it seems this is just the fact that they've let him leave the chinese territory to those guarantees match and also

there is a suggestion that the paper in the legal framework of america's negotiations over these extradition proceedings wasn't entirely accurate edward snowden has been allowed to leave home as you say suggestions as to his final destination. but the russian foreign ministry have suggested that he is using moscow points to a destination now wiki leaks have been involved they claim that they've helped snowden. safely exits hong kong sorted out his paper and they were in the process of securing asylum in what is being described as an unnamed democratic state the suggestion is democratic state could be venezuela and moscow as a stop off before a flight to cuba and then down to. the suggestion environment but there are rumors circulating but one of the suggestion is that at five fifty moscow time so within the next hour edward snowden. right anybody's guess at this point but thanks very much for staying on top of the story artie's all scott with an update from. lots of

reports and speculation let's try to shed some light with andrew feinstein a former whistleblower and director of corruption watch u.k. joining me live from london so we have at this point just kind of rumors and conjecture about what's actually going to happen but if it were you in edward snowden's shoes what do you think the next move would be. it's a very difficult question snowden has clearly decided that he does not want to shake the national security state in the united states and therefore what i would probably do in his situation is stay on the move. until he is guaranteed safety in a particular country i think that by continuing to move makes an incredibly difficult for the us authorities to start any sort of legal proceedings against him wherever he may be because after all you know this is

a guy who has taken enormous personal risk in order to expose what is profound wrongdoing by his own state and my guess is that given the way this operation seems to have been planned by snowden he would have thought through which countries are likely to help him. avoid extradition back to the united states apparently he has some help here from whistleblowing who wiki leaks and in a recent interview with r.t. julian assad said that he suggested stoughton should go to possibly russia south america do you think he's following that advice. it would appear so whether the advice comes from wiki leaks or not certainly their experiences will have been quite similar in recent times so so listening to their advice would make a lot of sense for him in terms of what his his destination of choice is going to

be he would have spoken to a lot of people about it i'm sure and those countries you mention are set nehemiah is he would consider. my own guess is given julian assange has own situation that ecuador is obviously a possibility iceland is the other country that has been mentioned including by yourselves of course there it's not quite clear how they would respond to united states pressure while you know more about russia than i do but again i think he might feel that this is the country that would not bow to u.s. pressure because obviously many countries have been in military and political alliances with the u.s. over recent years are unlikely. to give safe harbor to to someone like edward snowden even though in my opinion he deserves it as something of a hero is something of a very brave young person who has decided in the face of what he sees as immoral

conduct by his own government and the power to effectively speak truth to power and to let not only the citizens of that country but the citizens of the world know what is being down over there by many countries in the world in the name of national security and defense will kind of get some reports suggesting that he could already be hold embassy what's your take on that. i think that's a possibility i think given julian assange his experience in london. of that russian embassy of ecuador might be more appropriate obviously the ecuadorian government has been thinking through just these issues in the case of julian assange. so it won't be starting with a fresh slate if you will if snowden were to holed up in one of their embassies but i would suggest that an embassy somewhere in russia ecuador or another country would certainly be a better bet than the situation in london where the ecuadorian embassy in which

julian the sars finds himself is surrounded twenty four hours a day and there is obviously pressure from the british government on the effort dorrian government and i would imagine by the american government say yes that would seem like a fairly good option but i do think i mean what our conversation is suggesting is that snowden does have a number of options before him and i see this is very positive i think that there is a strong possibility that he could find himself a safe haven way he could continue to release the sort of information that he has started to release information that i think unequivocably is in the broad national and international interest and briefly please if you could to wrap up a lot of countries now being sort of drawn into this whole intrigue what do you think the u.s. the next move will be. well i think you know just judging from from the sort

of current us and british reaction to these revelations is they seem to be adopting a tone of wanting to tough it out of saying this wasn't nearly on the scale that snowden is suggesting the surveillance that is revealed that what was done which has been controlled was done in the interests of national security and national defense and i think that is the line that they're going to continue to push and there is some very standard ways very briefly in which in which they try and in some way diminish the the messenger rather than dealing with the actual activity in the actual issues and i think in the case of snowden they going to find that quite difficult i certainly hope that is the case they were and i wish him every success in what has been a very courageous initiative all right and you're feinstein from corruption watching ok thanks very much for time thank you. of course we have been saying

along with the airplane that is currently en route to show metro airport there is the possibility that snowden could already be holed up at moscow's ecuadorian embassy and we still have to bon mots say standing by with more on that tell us what's the latest. well mads i want to tell you what we know for sure weiner is that he is snowden is not here are at their door an embassy yet early on actually one of our sources said that he may be considering coming asking for asylum from of the ecuadorian embassy now the other thing that one of our sources as she told us is that he does not have a russian reason so he will not be in russian territory for too long in fact he'll be using a transit visa to go to one of the other countries now speculation is running around of course as to where is he going to go wrong he go to venezuela will he go to iceland all will he go to ecuador now i know are just a few minutes ago actually i was a we've been standing out here obviously speaking to the ambassador trying to find

any kind of information that he can give us he could not say for sure what is going on but he was a leaving the ecuadorian embassy to an undisclosed destination now this could suggest that he is on route or to the airport at the moment we've all we've also had loads of speculation as you could add could you really be the final destination for snowden we know that in the paused ecuador has been a pretty open to helping out whistleblower and i say this because i want to bring our audiences and our viewers back to one familiar case that we've spoken barrie much about here at r.g.p. is the world of fame as a whistleblower julian assange case now as we know that julian assange is a wanted by sweden to answer questions regarding sexual assault of the hour which is always denied him twenty twelve we lost the case and then decided to ask for asylum from the ecuadorian embassy in london he was offered that asylum and he's

been holed up in that ecuadorian embassy in london for over a year now recently he did try to speak to authorities again to see if they can let him out so he can leave the country but that has not yet a been successful now the case of julian assange. it is very much similar to the snowden one because of june our son to believe that once he's moved to sweden he will be extradited back to the us for charges of leaking those military and diplomatic cables that went literally all the media had them back so he's afraid that he may be charged he may be put on trial and what they're called or in the embassy or the door in government really said was that when the the offer to him the asylum was that he he could possibly fail and. he could possibly face an unfair trial in the u.s. and also the scare that he could be subjected to torture and other treatments of humiliation once he is extradited to the u.s. so the speculation is wiki leaks whistleblower was helping another whistleblower

wish away could this go could he be going to ecuador to cuba as his final destination we don't know but to keep you posted here with just outside the ecuadorian embassy and we're speaking to all kinds of people here trying to get as much information to give you as to where his final destination will be met laura thanks very much abbi for that well a world of whistleblowers here on our team we've got another one coming up after a short break an interview with william binney stay tuned for that. little.

in the propaganda machine is extremely powerful but the question is about others and you are sometimes aiding in yourself the most devastating loss in the surrounding countries especially from the likes of qatar and saudi arabia. well. among high tech means good health whether it be the latest laser cutters or lifesaving heart rushing innovators are working hard to keep you healthy for some

companies it's been a winding road from car simulators to cutting edge streaming systems for others it's been a lifetime of words along the mysteries of the chicken all over on technology are we going to the future or. more news today violence is once again flared up. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. showing operations around the day. i'm sitting here with mr william bennie he's a thirty two year veteran of the n.s.a. who helped design a top secret program he says broadly changed american personal data and he actually

helped crack those codes and enter into this he is now a whistleblower mr benny thank you so much for joining me so first of all let's talk about the latest information that has come out from this n.s.a. spying on americans well first of all the the fight's a warrant that was issued to the f.b.i. to get data from verizon. that's that's been going on according to the paper anyway since not a two thousand and seven. and this is like being renewed every three months so if you look at the top corner top right corner of that order it's thirteen dash eighty that means it's the eightieth order since in this year of two thousand and thirteen so when you start to say well what are the other seventy nine orders you can figure other companies in and this is like the second order of two thousand and thirteen for each company so you know that maximum you would divide eighty by two and

maximum number of companies that could be involved in this kind of order would be forty so but i'm sure that there are other other things that they have other orders that they're issuing other than just this kind for the service providers or the telecoms so let's talk about the nine internet companies that said that they are part of this this prison program should americans really be surprised at this but i'm not that's for sure but i would point out that the n.s.a. had deployed naris devices and it's in court documents submitted by mark klein documenting the n.s.a. room in the file in the san francisco bay t.n.t. building where they had naris devices in a splitter that basically duplicated the fiber optic lines and would send him down to pass all the information went down two directions one of them went to the nearest devices in the n.s.a. room and so those nervous devices could take everything off that fiber optic line.

which meant they could get one nearest insite device can do ten gigabits a second which meant it could reassemble a quarter and a million and a half and a quarter one thousand character e-mails a second and that's the kind of input they would get from one device now i'm sure they have multiple devices at multiple sites in the country as well as other places in the world so that's an awful lot of data to try to manage and so they need to do things like build bluffdale to plan for the future so they have lots of storage for all this data coming in so how far down the rabbit hole are we are we've really just at the tip of the iceberg in terms of their spying with this prison program coming out in the horizon records tim clemente who is an ex f.b.i. agent came on c.n.n. about week or two ago and he said that any digital data wasn't wasn't safe and that the intelligence community f.b.i. had ways of getting back to it and he was specifically talking about that phone call between one of the tomorrow of brothers and his wife. and if his wife didn't

tell the f.b.i. what they talked about in that phone call that they had ways of getting back to that and transcribing and getting that information so that's telling you what they've got recorded then the extent of and the digital data means all kinds of e-mail all kinds of twitter kind of things and anything going across the fiber optic lines as well as the public switch telephone network so we're not talking billions of pieces and i'm from asian here are we talking truly talking to my phone calls and emails jointly would be on the order of twenty trillion for the last twelve years how can we even manage that sort of thing they're saying with this present program for instance they have one lawmaker after another supporting it saying that it helped thwart at least one terrorism attack how would trillions of emails and twirl ians of bits of data help find one terrorist attack my personal view is that the intelligence community is bamboozling congress and the

administration they are telling them that we have to do this in order to find the bad guys in the networks and i just absolutely false you don't have to do that there were ways and means to do that and i left that ability in capability with them and they just threw it away so instead they opted to collect every but everything they could about everybody in this country and one of the reasons is that that they would want to do that the only one i could think of is they wanted to be able to leverage anybody in this country for example. we could take the case of the i.r.s. and that in the tea party and the harassing they're doing there one of the one of the people who is being harassed was giving testimony in front of congress and they said. which i thought was pretty revealing that they had a question from the i.r.s. that said what is your relationship with this other person and they gave the name well how would they know that unless they knew this the the community the communication.