and prosecution strategies for people involved in the area see in cyber crime and we've seen this with bradley manning on the domestic scene else as aaron swartz so i don't think that they'll give up pursuing him. but whether or not they were ultimately successful in that only time will tell all right international ations expert dara made al thanks very much for your insight thank you for having me or you can have more updates on edward snowden the search for asylum in a couple of minutes stay with us here on r.t. . i know they tracked the approval ratings of the presidents of various countries by did though they still research the approval ratings of former presidents twice like gallup poll that says that george w. bush has been slowly growing in his approval numbers since leaving office in fact

his numbers have increased by seventeen percent amongst independents and even his in three rival democratic voters have given him fourteen percentage points of popularity i think this may be due to the fact that obama's magic has worn off and people are getting fed up with things along for the bush days is insane if you are one of the people who has recently decided that bush is awesome then please tell me how he differs from obama true obama can pronounce ninety nine percent of the words on a teleprompter in front of him but both presidents have let expensive wars with questionable objectives bush gave us the patriot act and obama continued it with the n.d.a. both of them seem to like their drones and massive government spending and expansion i don't know i don't think that just because obama's rules flawed that somehow makes bush's reign into some sort of triumph but that's just my opinion.

thanks for staying with us here on r t updating you on our breaking news this hour we just understand that n.s.a. whistleblower wanted by the u.s. edward snowden reportedly landing in moscow just getting off a plane from hong kong that's touched on a show metro airport this is live video you're looking at of the scrum of journalists in. waiting for his arrival at the terminal at the airport to board presumably his in a plane for his next destination which we believe is have suggested that cuba will become one more transit stop on snowden's way to another country possibly venezuela but that's unconfirmed r.t. is reporting that the ambassador of ecuador to russia has also arrived at the airport to meet snowden there's a lot of speculation as to his final destination destination some sources

suggesting as we've said it's been venezuela possibly ecuador but let's go now to our t's paul scott he's standing by at the airport with all the latest paul what are you hearing. trying to decipher all the information that is coming in but one thing i can tell you is that the plane that was reported to be carrying edward snowden has landed here. it arrived from hong kong around fifteen or twenty minutes minutes ago there's still no official confirmation as to whether snowden was indeed board but as you say we can tell you that all officials in diplomats from the ecuadorian embassy hey there it's just about one hundred yards to my right. and they say that they all waiting to greet edward snowden upon his arrival when he gets through control i suppose the intention of of why they have his final destination is. within the last hour to a wiki leaks founder saying that diplomats from the country that will grant asylum

will be. whether that means the ecuadorian. embassy has agreed to grant asylum to edward snowden i suppose only time will tell because the initial suggestion was that venezuela would be his final destination now reports all emerging that he's going to use moscow was a stop to transit before flying to cuba. and the reports suggest he's already booked on a flight for monday and then going down to caracas to venezuela that was the early suggestion developing really it is the news that the ecuadorian officials say from the ecuadorian embassy. great edward snowden when he makes his way through and his greeted with us from a press that you just see all right all scott live for us with that update from a fair amount of a report thanks very much for that update of course there is now the suggestion that it could be ecuador that say we're snowden's final destination for more on that we turn to say she is standing by outside ecuador's moscow embassy tabbing.

yes indeed iran for cloak of this often in moscow time of the ecuador the diplomatic cars left this earth facility the embassy here to a destination bed now we can't according to our sources is at the airport now this of course it doesn't confirm as yet to that snowden who will be getting a phylum from the ecuadorian embassy but we are assuming that he is now the reason why assuming that is that there's been a lot of speculation whether where he's going to go from now on and this case really reminds us of another case of a very famous whistleblower julian a son who has similar circumstances now joining us on who is wanted by sweden to come in and answer questions regarding sexual assault charges against him and he was then denied due to leave london and he did not want to go to sweden they fall on june twelfth for asylum add to the door an embassy in london he was granted asylum they could during the embassy he's been holed up there for over

a year now and really what everybody is saying is that although snowden is kind of de calling everybody could he possibly be leading to quito we don't know we'll have to find out we're still here waiting to see what will happen in the next couple of minutes back to you matt in the studio where it's all right abbi thanks very much for that update well lots of reports and speculation going on andrew feinstein he's the director of corruption watch u.k. and he's a former whistleblower himself and he told me what his advice to snowden would be. all right tony gosling thank you very much sorry for little mix up there were live with you right now so you tell me if you were edward snowden what would your next move be. well i mean he's obviously got options rather limited because the real impact of what he's done here is only mail starting to be realized it's not only is he exposing criminality q the signals intelligence part of the british

intelligence services also the national security agency but he's also showing that much of that intelligence contains information which may bring criminal prosecutions for example of war crimes criminal criminal prosecutions against for example bankers people who've been doing money laundering such as lord green who is in charge of h.s.b.c. there's a vast amount of information in there i mean one player thing i can tell you though is he won't be coming to london he doesn't want to end up in the tower of london like julian assange figurative li is at the moment in britain here i'm afraid we have a very very poor record although the government and many of our media outlets talk about protecting whistleblowers the fact of the matter is if you blow the whistle anything really big and important here in britain in fact even some trivial things you'll be bullied you'll be taken out of your job and there's a real total hypocrisy and one of the reasons for this is that our the way that our entire network of government sponsors taxpayers' money is paying for all this

intelligence service stuff. rifkin for example who chairs the intelligence and security committee that's supposed to oversee all this secret stuff he's actually also employed by a financial services firm that works for defense contractors so you can see what's happened here is we're losing any kind of proper democratic oversaw of these intelligence services and that's what one of the things that has started to really expose if i were him i would actually be thinking about maybe not going to south america as others have done but looking at iceland iceland has got a couple of very useful institutions there is the immediate i double m.r.i. which is the iceland's modern media institute which has been set up specifically by the thingy the icelandic parliament to. protect whistleblowers and to make sure that iceland is seen as a safe haven is also the associated whistleblowing press in iceland to the awb these are really great institutions which are starting to emerge now in europe as

a resistance to the intelligence both the military industrial complex and the financial cults in the european world taking over so much of our public life so i mean really it is sensually leaving our democracies in tatters or. for edward snowden's part he is suggested to be here in moscow as a right now or very soon do you think moscow will have any role to play in this or do you think it'll simply be a transit point for him. well i think it would probably be a transit point matt because it would maybe be a little bit too explosive for him to stay in moscow for too long but i'm sure there are many people in the russian military will be very interested in talking to edward about some of the leaks that he has and i think what's happening now is that there's a small oh really a lack of faith happening in much of what our intelligence services are up to when we've got no proper democratic oversight of them they're running off on their own as people like george or suggested they might do you know

a very dangerous stage we've come to but anyway the money system as well is involved in this and this is why i point out that much of this intelligence will be to do with economic warfare this is another party we've got many new types of warfare going on in the world today economic is just one another one of course is psychological warfare which is you know using a cart the media wars really attacking the reputations of individuals and countries right around the world so those are the sorts of information that's contained in these prison release that we're now starting to see and those that have been guilty of crimes over the last ten years particularly since nine eleven and the war on terror started the you know the very serious crimes have been going on in afghanistan in iraq in places like yemen where people are being killed pakistan particularly another one where many people innocent people have been murdered through the use of drones and these hellfire missiles completely illegally by make by the way mainly three countries israel united states and britain and i'm really

as a british person absolutely ashamed to be involved in this new escalation of the arms race but this is what people don't necessary understand is there will be information that edward snowden has that can actually bring some of these people to trial eventually and that's why the west is so afraid if britain was really serious about any kind of real justice we would be able to invite him to london and say yes you can tell all your secrets or your stories to people here in britain you'll be safe here he's actually exposing criminals and the criminals are going for him now i'm afraid that's the case matt or attorney goes on thanks very much for your perspective. all right we're going to look back at these live pictures from sheremetyevo airport where supposedly edward snowden is going to be arriving at some point soon we're going to be keeping an eye on this for you here on r t so stay with us for plenty more updates throughout the day.

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i'm sitting here with mr william benny he's a thirty two year veteran of the n.s.a. who helped design a top secret program he says broadly changed american personal data and he actually helped crack those codes and enter into this he is now a whistleblower mr benny thank you so much for joining me so first of all let's talk about the latest information that has come out from this n.s.a. spying on americans well first of all the the pfizer warrant that was issued to the f.b.i. to get data from verizon. that's that's been going on according to the paper anyway since not a two thousand and seven and this is like being renewed every three months so if you look at the top corner top right corner of that order it's thirteen dash eighty

that means it's the eightieth order since in this year of two thousand and thirteen so when you start to say well what are the other seventy nine orders you can figure other companies and this is like the second order of two thousand and thirteen for each company so you know that maximum you would divide eighty by two and you'd maximum number of companies that could be involved in this kind of order would be forty. so but i'm sure that there are other other things that they have other orders that they're issuing other than just this kind for the service providers or the telecoms so let's talk about the nine internet companies that said that they are part of this this prison program should americans really be surprised at this but i'm not that's for sure. but i would point out that. the n.s.a. had deployed naris devices and it's in court documents submitted by mark klein

documenting the n.s.a. room in the file in the san francisco eighteen t. building where they had naris devices in a splitter that basically duplicated the fiber optic lines and would send him down to pass all the information went down two directions one of them went to the nearest devices in the n.s.a. room and so those nervous devices could take everything off that fiber optic line. which meant they could get one nearest insite device can do ten gigabits a second which meant it could reassemble a quarter and a million and a half and a quarter one thousand character e-mails a second and that's the kind of input they would get from one device now i'm sure they have multiple devices that multiple sites in the country as well as other places in the world so that's an awful lot of data to try to manage and so they need to do things like build bluffdale to plan for the future so they have lots of storage for all this data coming in so how far down the rabbit hole are we are we've really just that tep of the iceberg in terms of their spying with this prison

program coming out in the horizon records tim clemente who is an ex f.b.i. agent came on c.n.n. about week or two ago and he said that any digital data wasn't wasn't safe and that the intelligence community f.b.i. had ways of getting back to it and he was specifically talking about that phone call between one of the marrow of brothers and his wife and that if his wife didn't tell the f.b.i. what they talked about in that phone call that they had ways of getting back to that and transcribing and getting that information so that's telling you what they've got recorded then the extent of and the digital data means all kinds of e-mail all kinds of twitter kind of things and the thing going across the fiber optic lines as well as the public switch telephone network so we're not talking billions of pieces of information here are we talking truly talking to my phone calls and e-mails jointly would be on the order of twenty trillion for the last

twelve years how can we even manage that sort of thing they're saying with this present program for instance they have one lawmaker after another supporting it saying that it helps ward at least one terrorism attack how would trillions of emails and trillions of bits of data help find one terrorist attack my personal view is that the intelligence community is banned. going congress and the administration they are telling them that we have to do this in order to find the bad guys in the networks and that's just absolutely false you don't have to do that there were ways and means to do that and i left that ability and capability with them and they just threw it away so instead they opted to collect every but everything they could about everybody in this country and one of the reasons is that they would want to do that the only one i could think of is they wanted to be able to leverage anybody in this country for example. we could take the case of the i.r.s. and the and the tea party and the harassing they're doing there one of the one of

the people that's being harassed was giving testimony in front of congress and they said. which i thought was pretty revealing that they had a question from the i.r.s. that said what is your relationship with this other person and they gave the name well how would they know that unless they knew this these the community communications community of that person so that means you're getting back to this program where they're pulling all the records of phone call and e-mails and everything together and seeing who that person worked with in an on top of that it gave them the ability to pull together the entire tea party so you would know everybody that's involved in the tea party peripherally or centrally now this new president program says that at the agents who are and employing it is have a fifty one percent confidence that it's a foreign agent a foreign percent can you talk about that accuracy how can we even guarantee it is fifty one percent really enough well that's another joke ok. these are all jokes i

mean they expect people believe this i mean there are two parts one is the public telephone the public switch the p.s.t.n. public switch telephone network and then the other is the internet or the world wide web. on the one side you have phone numbers now these phone numbers whether they're whether they're your landline phone or your mobile phone or your satellite phone all connect into this public switch telephone network and those numbers are unique in the world and you're talking about switches that are routing these communications from one point the earth to another and they have to know exactly where to send it so you know exactly where it went and exactly where it's coming from so there's no question that he shouldn't have fairly ninety nine point nine nine nine percent accuracy on identifying that unless something happens and they have electronic blip and they used lose part of the information and the other thing is on the on the on the world wide web here again they have attributes that are

part of the worldwide system that identifies those people uniquely in the world like the i p v four i p v six you know addresses that are assigned by the i.a.e.a. n a and the five regions of the world and that kind of clearly tells you and if you don't have that then every system every device whether it's a switch a server or a computer has a mac number that's a machine access code which identifies you uniquely in the world. and the same would be true in using username and service provider combinations like william binney at comcast dot net something like that those kind of attributes identify where you are and where you're coming from so let's talk about the companies the nine internet companies that are allegedly involved in this they are involved in this. how do they say that they didn't know that this was possibly happening under their watch first of all is that even possible that they didn't know certainly it's

possible that some of the people in those companies didn't know but i find it hard to believe that that wasn't already agreed to that they that the company somewhere in the company the c.e.o. or c.e.o.'s knew that and agreed to this kind of access because it's hard to believe that they could not not notice that they're being drained of information. that's pretty difficult so what can we really do to protect ourselves is there anything we can do to protect ourselves here there's not really anything you can do i mean except to. fire everybody in congress and the administration and elect new people in that will that will do a constitutionally acceptable job and speaking of congress how much did they know how could they be ok with it how did so much of this just start coming out with of arisan leaks with this prism how are we just finding out about this and ministration that tells transparency well it's because not transparent i mean that they have secret interpretations of laws and they're doing this in secret and not

telling anybody i mean senator wyden and udall have been complaining about this for several years now. so they were on the intelligence committee so those of committee said an idea what was going on but rest of congress didn't have the foggiest idea what does the patriot act mean to american freedoms it means we don't have any it's setting up a tele tarion state. when the government has that much information they can do those things they can use the i.r.s. to intimidate people or anything else they can send the f.b.i. people what they did to me and some others you know so that's the power that government has they have that they have the power of the gun and the force and if they have the knowledge about you then they can start to use that against you especially if you don't agree with the policies that they're setting up so let's go back to the foreign intelligence surveillance act as a lot of us know it though we're going to the first sort of that act is foreign and that was built back in the seventies that it applied to foreign enemies then but in

the thirty year sense for your sense we seem to apply to americans more times than not well we see the same thing happen with prism yes absolutely that's what's going on that's what's been going on for seven years with the prism program but even before that back to two thousand and three the naris devices were collecting that data now what that meant was they didn't have enough naris device to collect everything so they had missing missing bits of it like they might get eighty percent of the emails sent you know and not all of them so in order to get them all they have to go to the service provider who stores all of them for a certain period of time and then have a warrant to request to get them so that will fill in the gaps that they're missing when you were working for the n.s.a. talking about you had helped create a program as i understand it that's similar to prism for our foreign enemies did you know about president you know i mean prism didn't i left n.s.a. in two thousand and one and at the end of october and the prism program according

to the paper anyway was started in two thousand and seven so i didn't i didn't know about that but i was you know that data was very simply. filtered out using techniques that if this was a u.s. citizen you'd throw that data away if this was a foreigner that wasn't within two zones or two degrees of separation in close proximity to a bad guy doing bad things we wouldn't even look at them. ok we've throw it all away and that meant that we didn't we reduce the problem of all the massive amounts of data down to a manageable amount so we wouldn't need to build bluffdale or any other large storage sites we could easily manage the storage as well and if you collect all that that means wherever you collected it then you have to transport it from there to your storage so that we eliminated that communications cost too so now instead of throwing that america's data out there keeping it so is it simple as just getting rid of that algorithm that helped them fraud out and sort through it that

algorithm would of course be able to eliminate that data yeah if they adopt it and finally just working for the n.s.a. and the past do you regret that or does it give you the knowledge of what the n.s.a. has done so that you can do it in the report to people in the future no it was i don't regret anything i was doing because i they were real issues real threats and real potential threats that we had to try to discover to see if we you know you you could diplomatically or whatever avoid them so so i mean that was a very positive effort against the real potential threats so it had nothing to do with collecting data or information about innocent people around the world so i mean it didn't i didn't regret doing any of that but the problem was they turned that against everybody and that's where i have a problem well the name is at thirty two year veteran of the n.s.a. and turned whistleblower thank you so much for joining us we appreciate your time

sir thank you.

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and it's a whistleblower edward snowden in moscow after touching down on board a flight from hong kong r.t.i. at the airport to find out the next move in his dash for political asylum. ecuadorian diplomats add the airport to talk with snowden but unclear exactly where he's headed next some sources suggesting he's already checked in on a flight to cuba and from there possibly to venezuela. another whistleblower russell t.'s confirms the n.s.a. is storing data and claims top officials were targeted including barack obama when he was running for the u.s. senate. party looks at the resemblance between the plates of snowden and julian is saundra and washington's struggle to prevent a torrent of secrets from being revealed.