what matters to you. story. here to. find out more visit. hello and welcome to our in the money where the business of russia is business i'm peter all of this month we were at the st petersburg international economic forum holding a panel discussion on the crisis of capitalism our panel included academics c.e.o.'s and opinion makers ronni goldberg she is the executive vice president and senior policy obvious or at u.s.c. i would be all go ahead she's deputy prime minister of the russian federation and he is secretary general of the o.e.c.d. flatter me or morrow he is rector of the russian presidential academy of national

economy and public administration your last he is chairman of the management board of the investment banking division of barclays are meant to sign here frozen out of the eurasia house international and we also had an independent economist. let me go to you first. do we have capitalism today well i think. we have the capital. of the world people rich people can move around and that is a capitalism well i think capitalism. capital is. looking for opportunity and i think that how we do it if one capitalism traditionally is economic theater we see it's competitive markets and capital. markets put out a. and i think of this being subverted because. on the one side he's

a government intervention we see the rise of state capitalism everywhere on the other side or people would say corporate capitalism and only when we have. the other side we have a. capitalism that's sort of relationship based kept advocation then we have a financial capital as a way of speculation i think of these three forces. really undermining the the the the world of market economy first of all out of the grid should get hung up about names and this capitalism sounds like you know nineteenth century discussions that. it's not about that it's about market based economies rules based economies this is what we're talking about and the reason why some are doing better than others is because they played their cards better because they got it right and right no we have the best example of the differentiated approach is the ones who

did it right who saw it coming got it better and have much better results i think i would like to know what the world called. to say here is first of all what is capitalism at the end of the it's about competitiveness competition or an airship interpret north pole for the factors that are important here i think one factor that out of many that will facades is the breakdown of the berlin wall so before the world was i would say as a former physicist the world was classical you have to lose and you have socialists now with the breakdown of the of the of the berlin wall we're entering the new world where politics and economics are quantum what does that mean in the biz that it's globalization at the end of the day it's every in each unit matters it's quantum it's not the global idea. of capitalism or socialism they're each country has its own. one hundred capitalism together with ideas from social is because

soviet union doesn't exist the fear of soviet union other nations you're absolutely right because rich people have socialism. you can't fail it's wonderful you can make catastrophic mistakes and you'll be bailed out so you have cap you have socialism for the rich and everybody else all the rest of us can tell. you no it's not only socialist for the rich it's also socialism for i mean isn't for the rich for god's ok ok let me go even further with that list of. go to jail ok let's let's let's take your own country where are you from originally from california. ok so i'm fine if you come to europe but it's a wonderful place. at the end of the day if you take europeans there is what has happened i think the whole idea of a welfare state which comes with the idea of equality that every citizen has the

right of this has the right of the second thing to the third has become a economic huge burden to that quantum human it the whole idea is development if you're quick enough if you change yourself if you are evolution being big call it kept a lid saw it on then you'll survive it this is what you it or you can have our economic growth you could have economic growth you can create dividends you can create profit but you don't always create development ronny it seems to me it's just another bubble being built again it's really it's going to run here because it seems to me it's putting it off putting it off you know i'm not sure what it is putting the light off i want to go back. and i think what is new is the pace of change. which is creating its own situation and its own dilemma for and particularly for young people who are a big part of whatever a crisis. we're talking about now in many countries and their. variation

when i grew up the idea that i just thought there's a law of nature was what we used to call the revolution of rising expectations right it seemed just completely natural to me and inevitable that i would have a better life than my parents were not that's an american creed too yes very much for america and i think is what is in danger now and part of the reason is the pace of change and the mismatch right now between the education system and the skills and the capacities that kids are learning and the sas changing need. places for them to use the skills and so i think that's an area where we really need to know. that this is the expectations rising expectations is much more of an emerging

market world experience right now or what do you think about that. no in russian federation sometimes you have a very interesting joke we always speak about one zero nine a book named bob. is very good socialist country i have a question what country do in socialist countries and then will russia the best example. of course. finland and so on when they came to finland they said meal is paroled we have no want both of them for. only one person this year it's number one and it used to say that we invest not in banks north in the financial structure but first of all we invest for all people fought. education

system for house gases and so on and so on and they have a very good result. that is the difference and you're not i think i want to make comment on the scandinavian countries because steve down there well in the last five years but actually i think that story over the end you look at that sort of poor pointing out that the household debts over there the level of highest in the world have been rising very rapidly they have widespread interest only mortgages. huge amounts on their books i think that this story may be. too good to be true let me know were raised a very important question because these cries of this global crisis and want a financial crisis of. two thousand dollars the crisis we chill last for about ten years or so this is a crisis structure of the crisis of industrial world for a state. crime is this so we look at the car and cry the crisis is more severe where the traditional industrial state welfare state is developed in europe it's

not as strong in the united states where it is almost noon. or in russia or in russia so if the situation because of this welfare state collapsed in the ninety's and it is a situation is much better in imagination economy because there is no central bank . there is that that's there's no in sense of entitlement ok well it is in the european the euro zone there is huge in title in the united states it's kind of ideology and look at the stations that contrasts with. developed world for state industrial face but it doesn't meet the productivity requirement that's in the southern europe is stronger than in northern and again one of the questions one of the most interesting question is whether. conscious emerging economies are will for industrial development a welfare state or will they would be just completely new decisions in a pension. if you want to do you want to dress because i think that's very

interesting because we saw the west as a model for a century or so ok at the cold war in between but is what the west is doing a model for everyone else or is it different ways of doing it because when you look at it's very different well if by the west you mean european in europe. and which the north is clearly showing that. the whatever they've built up is not sustainable at least not sustainable in its present form then i think the questions asked and answered. but i think this brings out. the limitations of talking globally the situation in india where something like eighty percent of the economy is informal in other words. not paying taxes not subject to any kind of social safety net and so on that

situation is. very different from i don't know china or other parts of emerging asia. and unless we can figure out unless the indian government or the indians writ large can figure out a way to tackle in formality they're never going to tackle developing india which i mean one thing emerging markets can learn is that not to go so much into debt i mean this is a huge issue when you you know the russians got burned so bad in the one nine hundred ninety s. they just keep stuffing money away because they're just so paranoid about it it's a good policy ok there's a lot of people in the russian government with all due respect to spend and spend and spend it ok and there's a lot of others they will remember the one nine hundred ninety s. we're going to keep some money for a rainy day so i mean different perceptions of how the economy is changing much more risk adverse i think that of the countries fifteen years ago have been very cautious you look at you. the no no financial sector is only sixty percent of

g.d.p. extremely low and so china. is a pretty high spot of. show and needs some adjustment to make and i only see attitude towards welfare i think that there is a structural reason why emerging economies to have less dependent on state welfare is because a family is still. the welfare. of the family and i think the future we don't know we are going to one child policy in china in. most a country with rates are declining so where the world will be we don't know it's. the structural change we are talking to know with the crisis of capitalism i was google that is about a speculation point out of these are two separate reasons no you mix of the two you are out of the specter is a get away you know so we're on the same side i'm all for talking about

a structural changes i think it is unprecedented people is going to live one hundred. by the end of the century and if they don't walk more like a forty year. we're going to pay for it and then if they don't have told you know people want to have welfare and don't have children and so on who are going to pay them no lawyer so i think the. way i you know i'm very troubled a wall with being there in the decades ahead. the perfect material it's a lie you make just a small change and you get a totally different result. pretty. cool so this is a little complicated. geometry we start by marking out the incision lines or.

it's very intricate work where my life has changed one hundred percent. from the field operating table here more than just a very small table as long as i had a flashlight and a working battery and i had a good enough environment to work it. was among them along with some other terrorist leaders. as if he's reminiscing about the past. looking at you at the same time he's somewhere else. when i watch this. doesn't feel like me at all and. it's someone totally different someone i don't know.

more news today. again fled. these are the images. being from the streets of canada. giant corporations are today. i would rather as questions for people in positions of power instead of speak on their behalf and that's why i can find myself larry king now right here on our. more.

please. wealthy british. market. find out what's really happening to the global economy

with. a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines kaiser reports. on the money i'm peter all of you were discussing the crisis of capitalism at the st petersburg international economic forum. and i am not someone who is saying you have a. type. i do not believe in invisible hand range of things i think it needs a very visible hand this state has many things to do so the state should balance out but the state should not abuse over. to allocate all resources to either you or to me. and i think we have come to balance this with.

we have a very. america which is more innovative it's different from a different structure compared to europe there's no doubt in your. country . it's about countries have to choose their own way i think it's very very important why it's important because if you go back some twenty twentieth's. of years ago what that was not the case there was a wonderful more there which was the story of the with the what they were you call it the worst thing you have united states and when the country so former soviet union started their power they all dreamed over a wonderful life like your switzerland they thought it will come tomorrow immediately and it's of the mother was very simple just privatized it never a love letter lived in poland in the name of release and they said we have

capitalism we'll just have more stuff. and i said what's not is simple is that no we did you guys have a lot of stuff we'll have lots of stuff to live picture and to having one of the lot of stuff is one thing in my sacred live i used to be a politician i used to be prime minister of my own country so one of the first challenges i met was how do i handle the world back basically i became a prime minister and what i had on hand was a country of three or four or five years of independence just privatizing like mad everything that we had while the country here was blockaded by its neighbors it had the conflict with another neighbor so there was no intention from the huge army and versed in the country because they would like to send money as well so there was no common sense in privatizing to accept the job and they would think the begin destroying is for peanuts and basically destroying them so what i'm trying to say

here listen going on oh no i think that's also not being educated it was taken by an example of success so what we have learnt probably one of the lessons that well learnt to know that as we heard here here in this country not only has a choice but has to really think about all its own a model of success of balance the i.m.f. has a different point of view there are a lot we want our money you have to do this you want our money you have a lot of conditionality it conditionality conditionality it's all mice. finally you decide i agree with you but the i.m.f. comes in ok now but it's not about the i.m.f. let me differently for once. please do it's because it's not about the uniqueness and the exceptionality and everyone is different and so different there are a lot of common things that we've got to do we've got to get the fiscal stuff right in order to be able to pay for the minimum of services that we choose we can't

choose a certain model and then not pay for it for example or get to here because we love the model and then you know pass on to the next to the next generation or if you are blessed with for example roma to realise that have a banana and say spend the whole of it now instead of doing like what the chileans did we're just keeping it for the next generations except for and then so so the question of the exceptionality is fine every country is unique it's original it's different accent or but not so unique not so different you know there are common rules there are certain rules and there are more and more integration in the world economy and for that you need a lot more commonalities and more plug and it's good that we're on the opposite ends here ok i mean you wanted to. you see just to well i would come to elaborate to be atoned these but of course. you know this is

a famous first trees are on the cutting them by their own tall story that they're all families be in the same way and. have disaster in their personal way that's why i would say to allege extend the same country as historic be some ghoulish and some rules some general rules not to make a disaster but they go to the disaster fool in their own unique way as soon as a country says i'm unique no economical rules exist for me it's the first step to economic disaster again we should be more just. and that logical for performance exist for us we cannot mentor a crisis even to deal with credit always will if you're going to plead guilty as look at what we already did there were right all the rules for their own advantage no one goes to jail there's no downside you never can fail i mean this is you making we're making a very simplistic model here but we're forgetting the issue of politics there that's very important to me and this is all that's been not simplistic. all this

impi they were. brothers that's it and actually quite a number goes to prison but to come back on something more important. is for example having been chairman of the second largest company in the world we are discussing obviously the day in and day out take russia and there is a typical example how the state should function russia has and you would think it's two thousand and eighteen. that sixty percent of all drugs have to be produced in russia. that is a state it doesn't say we will do it it is the your call me is going to do it with it's foremost because it's russian companies but they have to be produced here it's a question of price it's a question of security it's a question of control it is particularly a question to give

a new life. in the country so that russian scientists all working many many of them in boston in switzerland where. they will stay here because of protection will be here and this is a typical example of how a government can channel. and push things in the right direction to fill what you rightly mention is still a relatively big gap of able but this is the wrong direction in all it's already. we're all seriously go out of my logic if you're either tollywood sixty percent are a big territory if you don't produce it competitively you're condemning the population to buy expensive low quality problem sorry no one knows you're good to have the wrong. rule be put to use competitively so they have no excluded some form foams they have no excluded imports in newly developed they

just do something which is a say and give a huge incentive to their country to develop an industry which didn't exist anymore why not open more to competition but you don't like. it is open to because if there are checks in it strike anyone anyone can pick we should we should resist protectionism on trade eat what it is getting jobs in this war to create joy but if it's creating jobs in this current interglacial yet they send their kids to school that sounds like a good idea to me by blow to the big board you just want big pharma to invade russia live in the you know your porch or shoot yourself in the foot because you can't export nobody is competitive the world is no organized along global value chains and you do one of the links of the global value chain russia or any other country in the world it has nothing to do with russia it is the way the whole production in the world is or going full circle here we're all talking about it and then i have to have to correct you it's a question of security as well you are going to put the disposal of

vaccines where we weed and saying now we can choose whether we give these vaccines to america or doesn't produce a mile or two russian where security is a very strange birth we don't need to go i'm not really. sure of your yes or. the inefficiency on sawrey way indication but we're programmed on the other i'm sorry you know we can all live in a dream world but we do not believe in one country and come to. a competitive. security is and will remain a very important thing but. just let me let me finish sorry not to say it is sponsibility of the government in switzerland or in germany or in france to take care of the security of their people or should it do we believe that the more secure. here. i can make every exception as

a trial lawyer in the. evening it's no problem it's not serious not. that governments can gift and for example in this particular case to close. your mentioning. yes production should be here yes it should be cheaper yes one short break. which the export to which i belong. and i know we all understand that these things should be done by generics from israel they're cheaper and there's a good you know just ahead of time. i kept pushing the crisis part but we got some optimism here i want to thank my pet wonderful here and i would like to thank our audience here.

speak your language. programs and documentaries in arabic it's all here on the. reporting from the world talks seventy i p interviews intriguing stories for you. to find out more visit our big. day is the perfect material it's a lie you make just a small change and you get a totally different result. what a pretty top note you have. this is a little complicated. it's like geometry we start by marking out the incision lines

as a guide. it's very intricate what. my life has changed a hundred percent. from the field operating table here more than just a very small table as long as i had a flashlight and a working battery and i had a good enough environment to work it. was among them along with some other terrorist leaders. he's reminiscing about just. looking at you at the same time. somewhere else. when i watch this. doesn't feel like me at all and. it's someone totally different or a new someone i don't know. i

live i. don't speak. to. her. i. will be mislead good. luck. to. her.

i know me better a little. egypt descends into deadly political strife with street battles between pro and anti regime leaving three people dead including a u.s. national. as washington's hunt for whistleblower edward snowden goes on a four star u.s. general is under investigation for allegedly disclosing a cyber attack against iran's nuclear program. and a german state to. evy channel stokes controlled by allegedly paying guests to criticize russia over the case of the notorious punk protest group pussy riot.