today. today on larry king now the to the value of polls you have zero knowledge is james fox musician john believer and tom de long and skeptic michael shermer on what's really out there people knew that political was there long before that we actually saw they thought black holes were there long before we actually found one but we know there is life in the universe because we're here is the government hiding something something they can whiz around with impunity and firings right here fastest jets you don't necessarily want to disclose that nature of information or are believers just being duped the next time an adoptee goes up to the mothership grab one of the little widgets out to desperate to bring it back so we can look at plus your you have all questions answers all ahead on larry king now.

by musician tom de long is one of the leaves vocalists of the punk rock band blink one eighty two and last year he launched strange times a web site that highlights u.f.o. of the paranormal activity michael shermer is the publisher of skeptic magazine executive director of the skeptics society and a college professor as well and if you haven't guessed he is our resident skeptic and i might be have a skeptic too because i've been talking about this topic for fifty years. james fox is a filmmaker and the host of chasing u.f.o.'s done national geographic his most recent you have zero documentary is called i know what i saw sixty five years after it happened roswell new mexico is back in the news an x. air force official recently came forward saying there were two crashes and not one what does this mean mike what is it james what does it mean well it's a story that wouldn't go away just because i think there's so much evidence and it's not any one particular witness or piece of evidence but there are so many

people from so many different walks of life so many different ranks in. the military who keep coming forward and saying whatever it was that crashed was not of this earth and now this is this going to bring to used to debunk this right he did you debunk this stuff for the air force and part of project blue book so why was he suddenly come around maybe his conscious got the better of and it's interesting actually because people must keep in mind that the five a night was based in roles on a masco nine hundred forty seven is the most evil eat bomb squadron in the world so for those guys exclusively responsible for the deployment of atomic weapons to mistake a common every day weather balloon or project mogul i just don't think it's off since then we've had. presidents a truman eisenhower johnson. kennedy clinton as clinton nixon none of these presidents is ever decided to review i know you're there you're the

talk of the cold war to who it didn't clinton make discreet inquiries for discreet inquiries quarter of a discreet in cardiff city so he told me what he saw it wasn't all that snow something. that's what we think he's and also clinton did it investigation in there as well found nothing so he was not only would not only would they not hide it i was you had he not only would they not hide it he wasn't happy with the answers he was because how do you know you know what do you got he didn't have any of this idea how to get over it of all of course the government would tell a state go straight to congress and say we need more funding nasa would not hide this tape we just saw that you know this is a national celebre torrie thing that we landed the spacecraft on mars and the mars rock member ninety six when clinton held a press conference and said this could possibly have life in it not only the hide it they hold a press conference for you know that's what would have let me sort of the make and then i kind of second of all the thing and i make a categorical really quickly ok but negative evidence like that counts for nothing you can't just say we know they're real because we have no evidence you know what

about all the people we have they have physical evidence i mean we have sought your shapes aircraft that you know doesn't meet their real time i don't think is resident show that everyone wants evidence show want to take testimony and testimony testimony doesn't count all the science it does someone can you just never in the whole of the testimony can put a man in jail can have a man get put you know to the death sentence you know these people coming out but even more so than that it's all based on mathematics and people knew that pluto was there long before that we actually saw they thought black holes were there long before we actually found one but we know there is life in the universe because we're here and so why is it easier to be skeptical about life in the universe and be skeptical that there are things you would personally let's turn the corner here on your breast while all the people who have an uncle who are responsible gun present nice they should be caught and others who said a burns was governor of florida swore. the short then go up stopped and then shoot glue would you discount them. just like the plural of anecdote is not data it

doesn't matter how many anecdotes you have at some point you have to actually have to have tangible is it'll have an they saw lots of things ok so first of all the fact that it's a u.f.o. it's an identify doesn't mean it's extraterrestrial not saying that even even though ninety nine ninety five percent of all the sightings that have ever been made we agree fully explicit we're only talking about five percent of these anomalies that we can explain what do you do with them nothing you don't have to do anything you don't have to explain every single anomaly science is different than the law you can convict somebody on an eyewitness testimony in science you can't just have somebody say i think i saw something on mars sorry and actually have to have we got to believe it or else on the board if you look around that this was the good movie mcminnville oregon in one nine hundred fifty photographed by paul trent . this is the first picture referred to as the trent photograph the latter was another one take it and send them what the hell is that what looks like a hug to me here's here's where i hope that we did our whole show on t.v.

on how to fake know if you just let me just do a hubcap i know if i can slaughter africa i actually have an interview with the witnesses on camera of me he gave this in this poll to it it was a case three photographs were taken there were multiple eyewitnesses obviously points of reference broad daylight crystal clear totally in focus under scientific scrutiny in the continent report which is a scientific study that was done very prominent scientists and they concluded this was a real object roughly twenty to thirty feet in diameter a silver in the teleco object that flew within sight of two witnesses so that was subjected to rigorous scientific analysis you're the leaves vocal lobes alyson of famous punk band would cut you into this. or you host a meeting one night every night doesn't that i'm very sorry but i know about punk rock group. because i could i was i had a little bit of but little joy. i think when i was in junior high school i just realized that the universe was a really big place you know in the ninety's the deep space project by hubble was

doing these eleven day photographs they would focus this telescope on a little tiny black piece of space like holding a grain of sand arm's length away for eleven days and they would get a one inch by one and slide with ten thousand galaxies in it each galaxy can have one to two hundred billion solar systems that's why we're finding so many planets right now and what i find interesting is like is how it seems like you're angry and it seems like most people believe in you have those take the other extreme and they get angry they rule no they're not but my my whole thing is is what we do know is that the universe is so massive and potentially infinite and we do know that there's hundreds and hundreds of billions of planets and stars just in our galaxy alone and we don't know if it was life but well worth here so why would we be the only ones who led that separate question have to come about if they allow us to classify her and promote our artistic but i wasn't have you ever like anyone ever say half a cent well. there's two questions are they out there have they come here we have

no evidence for either one seti scientists who make the same argument you just made for the probability of life being in the universe are very positive that it's worth the search because there probably is life out there they're extremely skeptical that any life is come here why because we have no evidence of it not a single bit easily manipulated and i was in the managers james fox tom de long and michael shermer and joining us on the phone now is chase brandon he is an ex cia agent who says he has reason to believe that what crashed it rosewell new mexico years ago was a u.f.o. what do you what do you base that on chase. hi larry well i have by own long held beliefs that roswell really occurred as the people who were there at the time and reported what they saw in the debris field and described as cadavers what was originally admitted to by the u.s. air force and then subsequently underwent

a massive change i believe people saw what they saw when you recently to tell us about that you found a box at cia headquarters labeled roswell containing photos i didn't find boxes it was a box of historical items what do you see in the bottle was in the box if you want to imagine what has been described at the debris field among other things was it confirmed those kinds of things would be what i'm referring to in general i won't say what was in there in particular what i will say emphatically is i don't for a moment think. my organization and i still regarded that way. sits on and conspiratorially covers up anything that isn't the end all be all determine if. we had been visited any time in the past and certainly

not in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven i'm going to cut to the chase. and. do you believe. in u.f.o.'s absolutely i believe we were visited many times in the past by. visitors who came and assisted with science math perhaps sentience all manner of other contributions made left behind. the. evidence of that in the form of the stone work and the other constructions that could not possibly jase can ask a quick question did you have confirmation in that folder that roswell was an extraterrestrial spacecraft yes or no i saw what validated my long held belief that roger well was as it was reported and i. believe as many many millions if not hundreds of millions of people do that we are not

alone in this bass college motion that so you had confirmation are we got so you stand so much is very important chase brandon formerly of the cia michael now i think not a kook i think the druids really disagree with the stonehenge was built by aliens i find this really insulting to ancient peoples that they could not have moved stones around therefore must have been aliens is the kind of argument the quality of argument he had for a pro you oppose it is just not as it is i agree with him i have some good dental i what i think is a good argument is still not over three million you think you know you think stonehenge was built by us to hold on though i dreamed they like three million you're disagreeing with archaeologists who study this professionally using liberal but i don't read yeah absolutely ok i'll do my own hands i just don't i mean just give me the bottom line is that i grew to like oh i'm on the same page about you that i think you really think it's going on here i think it's a it's what i call deities for atheists it's sort of a myth making religion for

a secular age on this is that the aliens are out there as godlike figures and we want them to be there to save us to rescue us that sort of thing i think. i think it's myth making is i think it might well they might be by god the idea that they've come here is a kind of a myth we have to remember nine hundred seventy nine there was a survey done of pro-u. a fall of just about the top five hundred u.f.o. encounters in the last fifty years roswell wasn't even on the list roswell became roswell in the one nine hundred eighty s. after television got involved and made a made for television film about it then then the eyewitnesses came out and suddenly decades later that's and that's not entirely true and so that is and that's classic myth making that's not irish mike is saying something to bring it on post all the time when you coming up does the government have information about u.f.o.'s that it won't share with the public that's next.

real damage and complexity of this oil spill was not something you can grasp just by looking at dirty birds we have between four to five million people in this directly affected area of the coast and it's pretty clear why it's not being reported because b.p. can't afford to have a reported all along the gulf coast are clean they are safe and they're open for business if b.p. is the single largest oil contributor to the pentagon the u.s. war machine is heavily reliant upon b.p. and their oil this is a huge step backwards for the marker see it's a step forward oligarchy carex it is toxic is a look a lot like spraying in vietnam it was it was not a picture that either the government or b.p. really wanted to have out there i don't want dispersants to be the agent on which. this boils.

down to the. science technology innovation all the least of melons from around russia we've got the future covered. that's.

we're back with musician tom de long with filmmaker james fox and with skeptic michael shermer publisher of skeptic magazine according to a recent survey more than third of americans believe you have those are real you think the government is the liberally withholding information from. the military generals and officials that i've interviewed from around the world have shared with me very unambiguous you have phone carrier cases that they during their official duties have investigated and some of the evidence that they were collected on scene was sent off to an unknown government agency never to be seen or heard from again i've heard that from so many american military witnesses i had from gordon cooper who was the last american astronaut to go up in space alone told me that there was a flying saucer that landed at edwards air force base circa one thousand nine hundred fifty three fifty four that was filmed on camera he had the film footage developed and that he personally saw it was real good footage broad daylight put you know you could see it and then he personally had the film footage over it was

never seen or heard from again so based on all those stories that i've heard it once again i'd have to call this a preponderance of evidence i'm convinced that there's a cover up and so the obvious question michael is assuming he what he says correct the obvious question is one word why why well i can't think of a reason why but but even so where is the film where's the look the next time an abductor he goes up to the mothership grab one of the little widgets off the dash board and bring it back so we can look at it in other words photographs and grainy videos and anecdotes about things that go bump in the night that's not evidence and science. as we've seen with the curiosity spacecraft all the technological scientific equipment it has on there to prove that there was life on mars they're not going to accept just a greenie video or a photograph we actually have real scientific evidence that we haven't and soon the public thinks it a great deal of books since it wants to believe it i don't know anybody this afraid

of it. why well i think i was saying earlier camera i think that there are national security implications i think anything that upsets a geo political order as a national security implications i think that that when you look at the collective evidence and you know that. if we're going to base everything specifically off science i just think there's a lot of things in human life that you can't base off science religion being one of them i don't have that particular faith i know a lot of people do and they have for thousands of years in one manner or our way of thinking or magazine can't change that for a minute if you. can change and i think this is to him it's science but to me it's just a belief in life the life in the universe and that comes with an element of consciousness in the human soul if anything like that i mean it is and i mean it was unify our fractured little world why not let's watch but i don't mind just that there's a lot of assets specific question so many times military journals and and

astronauts why the hell would anyone want to cover this up and they say think of it this way james you don't necessarily have control of your space and something that can whiz around with impunity and fly rings around your fastest jets you don't necessarily want to disclose that nature of information because it would make it seem as likely vulnerable they may become the new york washington missions was to go to walk a walk of no no they go to all of this is a very very important point that people need to understand that scientists have investigated unofficial capacity you have posed for the government and this is a quote from dr jaylen hynek who investigated you have posed as scientific advisor who was an astronomer from one thousand nine hundred sixty nine a sort of office project signing one object grudge in the project blue book and he said there was much more evidence to indicate that we are dealing with a most real phenomenon of undetermined origin that's an undetermined is not extra terrestrial that's just means we don't know that's any science it's always or you might agree was phenomena there could be freedom of it all lightning could be

experiment. look before we knew about the stealth bomber that would have been a freaky thing to see now it flies over the rose bowl here and present it in every january first and now we know what it is but so in twenty years what are we going to find out about what's flying out there now that looks spooky and in fact it was just an experimental test aircraft the only issue is that assessment around for so long a. physicist from france but i was book wonders in the sky where he chronicled the you know five hundred you will fall events that have happened since the late seventeen hundreds i mean we were building still fighters then and these are real and i don't know what they are i'm not saying the aliens and i'm definitely not you're so biased on one side that scares me no no no look the look the principle of skeptic magazine is extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and we don't have extraordinary evidence we have anecdotes of ok go to grad school or videos and this is a very interesting point because you guys it just didn't complete turn one in the degree on climate change and what was the basis for that hume lot of evidence solid

rock some live evidence ok that's interesting so not just anecdotes not just people people saying i think it's getting warmer actual measurements when these were saying so in the case even though this ring that's the alien body through the abduction stories you buy them don't let anyone to you can well when you do it when you follow the studies about hopkins and john mack and and i think those are important as john mack was was was the head of psychology department at harvard so he's no quack there's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of reports that are happening all over the world different demographics different age groups generation generation they all tied together with certain elements so it's scary either that it really is some kind of extraterrestrial thing or it's scary because they're all having the same hallucination and that would take him well just either way it's scary to me that so many hundreds of thousands of people are having that that kind of dream sequence whether it's real or not and so they're all coming to a conclusion because there's craft and there's these beings and they're there but

i'm giving them information they're. and pulled a very very own if you get enough stories could you dream about it there are logically you could dream. about there are night life there's definitely do. and they'll be abducted there's a nine hundred seventy five k. seven is so flickers on it there were seven eyewitnesses to that account they were lawyers up and stuff like that we're just finishing a long day's work they're driving out they saw what looked like one of the trees on fire they saw this perfectly like a close flying saucer disk shaped object to sort of suspended about tree top level one of the truck one of the guys jumps out of the truck runs towards the object six guys screaming against their will don't do it and he runs under and i guess he got affected by the apparently hit by whatever force it was it was driving this thing and he got thrown back they left him for dead. or get in the car came back to a long story short they all passed logitech to us all seven of them and travis will disappear by a very very credible case how you respond to that michael first of all the travis wall in case is quite different from that he just did not pass

a lie detector test because i was on a t.v. show and i saw him do it second he was a logger who was late getting a job and he had already fascinated about their sort of fantasized about u.f.o.'s and talked about this before this incident happened he told his buddies let's tell the story and they told the story anybody can tell stories like that never heard most has a heart you know so i wrote about the supposedly abduction i read about sad and very sad and that there was there an accident occurred most of the suspected of murder most i realize that most of the sleep alien abduction experiences happen when people are asleep this is called sleep paralysis it happened in the middle ages they called it nightmares that the terror that comes in the night the beam that sits on your chest the sense of presence the pro being in sexual stuff all that's been happening over centuries it happens in people's minds while they're asleep not all of it happens when they're dreaming there's many cases where people are driving down the middle afternoon how missy other abduction cases have been under its most nice and hypnosis is not a reliable way of pulling a memory out because memories are not recorded like video tapes and usually watch

them since one third of the public believes that do you think you are in show business tom do you think those two thirds the other two thirds that don't think you're a kook no i just think there's always an early adopter in crowd you know i think you choose what you believe in if you can be really biased one way or the other you're probably going to lose like he just no way and there's other people are like everything's a u.f.o. but like i was saying earlier i mean you know if one third believes i just think the other two thirds will come on soon and i think that goes if you follow a million people if you follow human beings no matter what it's like the first people to buy the i phone then pretty much everyone has it and the earth was flat you know for the longest time and galileo and all those guys were going to be burned at the stake for finding new stars and the whole universe didn't rotate around us so we can i just think the super conservative movement is not going to. the future they're just not in it with one from the skeptics they're a great band they left it the wright brothers but they also laughed at the marx brothers being laughed at doesn't make you wrong most of people in the history have

been wrong we celebrate the galileo's they turned out to be right most of the people that have these crazy ideas turn out not to be right and we forget about that i've yet to meet someone who's invested a relatively serious amount of time looking at the more serious aspects of the open i won that concluded there wasn't anything to it you know as much as i respect michael carl sagan i know you know me well saying that yasser arafat if you're saying the us are skeptical hold on we have also joining us oh did you go to the field did you meet the eye witnesses you talk to military generals you talk to the f.b.i. officials to see if you review the photographs did you really do that i've talked because you just told me the traveston passed a lie detector this i know i said it was i think we've got some questions from fans on twitter manic a.p. that must be her naaman plea right as to how do aliens fit into theories like evolution and creation. actually is a good question because if there is extraterrestrial life what is the chances that they would be by people primates like us with some gnarly stuff on their forehead speaking english with a weird accent do they have their own god chances are that they're not going to be

like us while not going to jump to that conclusion because that just seems once again that you're coming to a conclusion i think that very few men i think if you look like i swung my feet one on my face and i'm not even saying that i was my favorite expressions is that the universe is truthfully infinite then there is infinite possibility and you can't confine it and you can't limit it so there probably are pieces of life that look like human and probably are that dull i mean if the universe goes on that deep what dream is it what's the most compelling bit of evidence that you've heard when you sat on panels with me with former governor of the spheres the most compelling to me was was governor burns of florida and president carter and the governor of arizona goes on he said it was about and i will know when i hear. my wife's uncle the very responsible guy. you know i've seen. they could have imagined it to yes i'm but i'm open to it and i'm not totally skeptical not imagined i think they perceive

something very real they call it what it we would least one a diego do were there on twitter wants to know have you ever seen me u.f.o. or about a close encounter any of you i have had and i've seen a couple identified i don't know what they were but it was funnier years ago you might have heard this you're able to hear the by night vision right and you can see certain things with and if you get generation for greater you can see a lot of stuff so i to fill out all these papers in the state department i can't leave the country with these things can i say no i swear to god and i spent so much money on these things and i'll go out it took about a year and i saw a couple really really great things zipping through the atmosphere right angles are king one hundred eighty degrees of the horizon in less than three seconds don't know what it was put a camera on her it was but yeah birds yeah there's a do this a lot of sightings to her to turtle they go from one horizon to the other and three second you think it was a horizon here you're like this it's like there's exuma bird i wouldn't want to know what i think either but you know the message that for them go you know you're always sort of good for clothes and i used to imagine when i do

a radio talk show could imagine if someone was doing a talk show in one thousand nine hundred eight and they take the next call yes sir beck's calls from kitty hawk north carolina get a laugh how i am my name's overall here with my brother wilbur we're going to feel real we flew today what you say although we flew away when i got a little apparatus here we built it and we went up to be air lifted or will put wilbur on. will you then i have to say you flew we flew out. ok. so there's always skeptics with apologies to tell you that we thank james dobson tom de long and michael shermer for being with us a fascinating discussion on you oppose and if you go to sleep tonight. there's.

a mission three cretaceous three. four charges free. range means three. three stooges free. download free broadcast quality video for your media projects and free media don carty don tom. let me let me i want to know why not let me ask you a question from. here on this network as we're having

a debate we have our knives out for the for. me for you this right spanking never get here in a situation where b. and i don't even talk about the name let me. play. in. in. in. in in in.

nafta the bill. came to louisiana and were in bear attack which is forty miles from the gulf and about one hundred fifty miles from the wellhead and the oil and dispersants have come into here yesterday the wind blew really hard this table got this cloudy gritty glaze on look at that that is just what's on the table before we even start the interview. was b.p. about to repeat the same strategy that exxon used with the valves these oil spill this pack of confidential documents were uncovered as part of the toxic tort lawsuits that followed with some of the workers who realized that their sicknesses lingered lingered lingered these documents are very incriminating and they show that thousand.