the. today politicking almost twelve years since the nine eleven terrorist attack is the united states safe how much is the n.s.a. surveillance leak hurt the security of america we'll ask former senator joseph lieberman the co-chair of the bipartisan coalition for american security and former new york city mayor rudy giuliani it's all next on politicking. thanks for joining us welcome the former united states senator joe lieberman he's the two thousand democratic vice presidential nominee who did the first in one of the day got the nomination read and he says the name donna reed co-chair the bipartisan coalition for american security which is what ok great to be with there

you do wonderful things as always so this is a group that scott brown a former republican senator from massachusetts and i were asked to be co-chairs brought together by a group of people who are worried that there's the beginning of a pulling back by america from leadership in the world and it's not one part of the other it's pete pieces of the democrat and republican party and our position is that when america's not involved in the world we suffer we suffer in our security was suffer in our prosperity and maybe in the end we suffer in our freedom so in other vandenberg the on with the foreign relations committee in the forty's said that politics stops at the water's edge through three i sure do and i'll tell you something of all the bad impacts of the increasing partisanship in washington it's the way in which people have forgotten what vandenberg said because foreign

policy too often has become partisan as. well i what we're facing the rest of the world really we ought to be together for what's right for our country i mean the vanderburgh story is very instructive because during it he was an isolationist in his past and then they should get yeah from michigan to a rose to be chairman of the senate foreign relations committee after the second world war and when he saw the rise of communism president harry s. truman getting involved in some of those post words to to sions to try to take our former enemies germany japan help them rebuild protect freedom against the communists vandenberg joined with truman he in a sense he changed his position and that decision was a key to our ultimate success good in the period we can't you can't be isolationist and you can't really be but i think people are tempted by it again larry and it's understandable it happened throughout our history at different times what we always pay for it it happens particularly when the economy is bad and of course it's been

bad here in the country and when the american people are war weary and after iraq and afghanistan we're war weary but but if we're not involved in leadership in the world as a backyard and it's probably not going to be filled by friends of ours it's going to be filled in places like syria by iran which will or enemy it will has been consumed with security and valued your thoughts over the years where do you stand on this and a moral issue of privacy versus security yeah well the dilemma it's a dilemma and in the best of all worlds we do both i mean. it's a clash and sometimes they do security has to come first i mean even in the constitution the providing for the common defense is a is a primary goal of the federal government but you can't step on people's liberties and doing that and you know the whole case about n.s.a. surveillance and snowden and the rest what do you make of that or thought i was

during my time in the senate particular because i was chairman of. senate homeland security committee i get briefed on those programs that he divulged and i take them my feeling was very different my feeling was gratitude that we had this technological capacity without violating people's privacy to track millions of calls see patterns were calls are going to somebody we have good reason to believe was a terrorist and then we never nobody's phone would be tapped or e-mails would be read unless the government went back into court with evidence that there was probable cause to do that so and i know as people in the military have said that many many terrorist plots against america were stopped by those probably don't know about what's been stop right and this is the problem and that's why the to the extent that the government can reveal these cases where these programs helped us stop terrorist attacks against united states without compromises compromising the

programs that would it would help build public support for the i think the public gets this larry every poll indicates that the public supports valence yeah i think the public does because they know we're facing an enemy in these terrorists that is different than any we've faced before that they're not in uniform they don't strike us from an airplane or a battleship they come from the shadows and they strike at civilians and everybody is vulnerable in this country and to have this capacity to track them down if they use a cell phone or e-mail is a tremendous capacity that doesn't really compromise the rights of every commercial in the senate you knew that about this program we did we didn't do you think snowden is a traitor was a top forward well i mean literally i think is a traitor i think he's violated the espionage act to many other acts and. basically should be will be has been charged with a crime where he were about the most. well i worry about the muslim terms of our

security oh look the things that i was worried about is a seed in what's fascinating now is that the the great nation states even the ones that we worry about china well china's not going to really threaten us a minute and yes we have to work with them we have to develop a trusting relationship they may take actions in asia pacific regarding some of our allies that could cause a problem but what i worry about it's these terrorists and the biggest sponsor of terrorism is iran and what i worry is that they strike the united states with a weapon of mass destruction at the worst a nuclear weapon but they have the capacity to hit us with chemical or biological weapons and you know that's enough to keep me up at night some of the things you served on armed forces right yes what do you make of this sexual assaults and all those misconduct going on. yeah it's it's disheartening you know i mean people can say it's part of human nature and all that but you know i always say and i've spent

a lot of time with the military that of all so many of the great institutions in our society have lost their credibility lost people's trust government to say that it's business congress for sure. my buddy mccain says when you're down with the poll numbers a congress has now you're down to paid staff and close relatives so when i come back this is one of the few institutions in our society that still enjoys public respect as the military and it's big not just because they fight for us because they live by a code but when sexual assaults are going on in the military they're wire laden not coded and the pentagon has to really crack down on the scent of such a powerful place as only one hundred of you you know you must miss it well you know i don't miss the senate i miss some of my friends but i wouldn't be leveling with you larry if i didn't say that some days i get up i watch t.v.

or read the newspaper something's going on and i wish i could call up one of my colleagues and say hey let's let's put in a bill on this and probably will one day since i've been out that i most missed pink in the senate was when my friend mccain snuck it was sneaked into syria and to me with the opposition because i know i would have been with him of i was in the senate and i would have been an important thing that a friendship endures it doesn't door we talked to each other regularly we come from very different places different backgrounds but beginning early on when i came to the senate late eighty's ninety's we got interested in foreign policy things together defense things together we travel a lot around the world and he's a fascinating guy but much much more complex than most people their interest and got to know him very well i know you did joy he's joining with obama now on immigration you know they going to get that i i do. it's going to pass the senate and my guess is it's going to be a battle in the house but here here's

a coming together of what's right which is immigration reform the country needs that immigration's been good for our country great for our country but also what makes political sense because i think a lot of the republicans even if they're skeptical about immigration reform understand that they're basically everytime they were against it saying to the festus growing group in america hispanics and others asians growing rapidly where we don't care about you met my fate meant to do not care about you we don't like you i don't know a way to go away so i mean the latest on deny this so it's a combination of second. and second simultaneous translation of just. common sense good good judgment now so i think it's got a shot an appeal would not only be a tremendous thing in its own right because the country needs immigration reform but after more than two years without any really significant accomplishment i would say well congress can at least get together and get something done that's good for

the country so all these is a pleasure knowing you thanks learning to use it with god bless you you to listen as every week on this show i want to show you a part of washington you may not know about last week i visited ben's chili bowl this is quite a place president obama and bill cosby are big fans see what it's like to take a look. at. the it was nine hundred fifty eight white hours and hours president and then still a bowl but it's a historic part of washington d.c. and with one in. witness on the sound of that town there she was a little kid who plays she's going to i was i was one thing i was often a fairly recent what made it thing you know i think it's the longevity i think it's the personality of mom and dad that. think of that community spirit that we foster we've been an integral part of this community for fifty five years and i think it's

the late hours to remember the six in the morning for breakfast we close at two in the morning on weekdays and four am friday is that this is that famous little hotdog at the jelly we do it's only half smile so it's been kind of listed as the c. signature dish it's a half b. half fork smoked sausage that we put in the bun for chili mustard nuns on the stillest this is the only thing the bill cosby has been coming since nine hundred fifty eight his wife used to actually date here in our booth and are still original and that's what president obama had enough from president sarkozy have not so i think it didn't take well prebble was just so successful in the get go you know it was because of the location i mean this area used to go black broadcloth all black broadway yes all the famous performers played here and you had all these wonderful theaters this was it this was probably it's an amazing neighborhood and a great mix of new and old with young people affluent people people from the administration and it's the place to be in it i mean it was in fifty eight and it is again and it's beautiful to see the legwork made your husband scott wanted to

raise a family in this before and during the convention so this was a business that you do every day every time with few people i'm energized. by people from everywhere you know won't supply you. mind on the stage thank you on sundays the attacks thank you ben still a bowl a year and watch the good this is the place this is the boy i. still like tom america's mayor the former new york city mayor rudy giuliani. the civilized world produces more food than it needs. well people die of hunger in other countries. millions of victims every year. where a meal is the most value treasure. all of you.

is flood or droughts to blame. it was a bad year without a train to not we couldn't clods anything with the one who would it all there was great hunger like that you had some. it was a good help comes too late and without good intentions. charity diplomacy and business gone up to. a. let me let me respond i wouldn't let me ask you a question. here on this network is what we're having a debate we have our knives out. but if you feel the slightest bad staying there again you're in a situation where the united way to talk about surveillance me.

now welcome an old friend a dear friend rudy giuliani two terms mayor new york ran for the republican presidential nomination two thousand and eight we go back a long way we share

a great love for baseball we drove to give a to the opening game of the ten thousand world series which i will never forget forgive anything else your reaction to the supreme court's ruling in the gay issue lots of it's what i expected it's sort of a classic compromise right i mean the chief justice decided that there was no standing on the california case so what that does is it leaves it to the states now to decide if they want gay marriage or if they don't so we avoid some of the roe against wade repercussions of the forcing it all in one fell swoop on everyone i think that was a sensible and wise way to do it i think if you're going to decide that you can leave it to the states and the defense of marriage act has to go down because but californians can marry you know so california is can you yorkers can never voted early i signed a law back in one thousand nine hundred ninety four that was the first or second i don't know of the first or second civil partnership domestic partnership law and it

was so controversial with the so long way oh boy i got i got so much heat over that from france from a lot of republicans from a lot of a lot of different groups and i think it was probably. sixty seventy was unpopular at the time. but i thought it was the right thing to do you give equal rights to people and i thought i thought that civil union would be a good compromise but i always thought will eventually it's going to lead to basically you know where we are now let's get to some other issues reaction to the new bipartisan coalition for american security and he feel about the push for and gays and proactive foreign policy i think we have to have an engaged in proactive foreign policy otherwise it would leave a vacuum and when we leave a vacuum then who feels that look at syria we've left a vacuum in syria because president obama could make a decision about what to do russia has filled that vacuum or ran as filled that

vacuum if we if we leave these kinds of vacuums by not acting aggressively not acting with purpose then we're going to have russia moving in we're going to have china moving in we're going to have been as a well moving in south america america has to be the leader otherwise somebody else can become the leader when you make of the snowden thing. oh i think it's clear that he's a villain particularly given what he's done now in going to china going to russia just look at this it got the guy claims he's in favor the first amendment he full disclosure human rights and he goes to china is the word that we seeking refuge in russia and now that the other places he's thinking about event as a weapon in cuba i mean c'mon we're princes compared to them so it seems to me that his purpose here is not some kind of pure vindication of the first amendment of first amendment rights it's more about some kind of anger at the united states some kind of anger maybe in his personal life. i don't know exactly what it is how do

you dealing with privacy and surveillance well it's really hard and it's a balance it's a correct. discussion to have about how far can you go. the reality is that we're living in a very dangerous world with pretty complex groups of people that want to come here and kill us they have succeeded unfortunately as we know in september eleventh they succeeded in boston this is succeeded in london a few weeks after boston so it's not as if they haven't had success so it's hard to detect if that's hard to find of so you have to have very significant surveillance at the same time and you just to go get everybody's records i'm a little uncomfortable with that and this should be some standards there should be some. probable cause reasonable suspicion. some set of criteria so maybe that's what this of all lead to but for him to just reveal this when this

is classified information does tremendous damage to us it does tremendous damage to us in ways that you and i even i can't can appreciate so i consider this man i don't know if i call him a traitor that's a pretty high that's a benedict arnold kind of thing but i sure think he violated the españa espionage act he certainly violated the law against giving up classified information which he has no right to do it think he should be prosecuted like anybody else with that we share a lot with nine eleven after your heroics two weeks later we were down in grounds remember and then that you were on. as did so many things you think were more or less secure now. that's a very complex answer the answer is unfortunately answers one of those yes and no answers certain ways were more secure was certainly more secure in our airplane travel a lot more than we were before september eleventh. we're more secure against these large. international terrorist groups we have

a much better handle on them not completely but we have a better handle on the many al qaeda groups like that the or shoots of al qaeda where we're less secure are these individual acts of sort of self initiated terrorism the self initiated jihadism like we had in boston like they just had in london the hard to slight rise in hassan well that's what that's why it is that level of danger that in some ways is much greater than we faced before september eleventh because people forget bin laden encouraged people to do this he encouraged people and walking in terms of people to do this this is not just a spontaneous you know growth this is something that's part of their plan to try to encourage people to become. muslim extremists on their own and then on their own with some help. some advice some guidance to go and commit individual terrorist acts this is part of

a plan and it is much much harder to get to detect these people they're not using by and large international communications. that we have informants to the extent that we have undercover people we're basically not into these groups so they're operating more under the under the radar so it's going to require a different approach and it's going to require i believe a lot more emphasis on local law enforcement is a much bigger role here now for the local police not just the f.b.i. a recent gallup polls shows that for the first time since two thousand and five more americans view george w. bush favorably than unfair or or goes around comes around i think history is going to judge and i think they're going to judge president bush much better than unfortunately he was judge toward the end of his term a couple of years ago i had a meeting with president bush was just when he finished his his book in fact he was just putting the finishing touches on it with him in dallas we spent about an hour together and he people beginning to fume a little differently then and i said to him are you going to handle being popular.

you like the fact that he never speaks against obama i believe that has a lot to do with the turnaround in view of him plessy always has been you know him . irrespective of what you think of him politically i'm pretty much a political supporter of his. and i was and i thought he was a good president and i thought he was a courageous president many ways but some people don't but everybody says that knows him this is a very very nice man very genuine man a very honest man very good man a nice man and i think you saw that in the post presidency he was he understood how hard the job is he probably disagrees with half of what president obama does just being a republican but he keeps his mouth shut about it he you know he realizes in public respects that i think i like that and i've tried to do that as the next mayor i mean michael boom. it succeeded me so i was fortunate i had someone that i supported somebody that i endorsed and somebody who largely looked at the world the

way i did although we've there are things we disagree about but i never go out of my way to criticize them and even even when i disagree with them and say well i'm not sure i agree with that policy i always point out that i agree with ninety percent of what he's doing i think it's been a very good night in boston up of a much smaller scale do you think i'm on a level at first first first moment i heard about it the first thing that came back to me was it was september september eleventh. sure it was a different scale but you know for the people involved doesn't matter. of course if you got blown off you have your child or you lose your husband or use your wife doesn't matter if one person died or three thousand people died what worries you the most worry that what i said the individual self developed acts of jihadism if someone is planning something right now some individual can be hard to stop them rivals putting something in a subway absolutely it could be a if if al qaeda in yemen is planning something i don't say we have one hundred

percent chance of getting it but i think we have a very very high percentage chance of picking that up because of the coverage that we have. i think if somebody i did want to pick a city but somebody in some city you know like the guys in boston are sitting there planning it much much harder to pick up much harder which means we have got to rely much more now on local police. what i didn't like about the whole thing the f.b.i. found out from russia that this man was a man they should be suspicious about they did a certain amount of checking they did a certain amount of investigating but they never did the thing that i think they should have done they never notified the boston police not just to notify them but to ask the boston police what do you know about this guy that if anybody's going to pick up something suspicious about someone in the neighborhood it's to be the local police i remember a case that i had is when i was mayor when howard safer was my police commissioner

and we caught these guys who were going to blow up the subway and the only way we found out about it was one rookie cop who was suspicious of them turned them in to the local sergeant got the joint terrorism task force they came in and the next morning these guys were arrested and one of them detonated a bomb right in the in the in the house he was in at the time that the f.b.i. and the police caught him but we never would have caught those guys if it wasn't for one local cop the all the n.s.a. stuff all the cia stuff of all the all this vast surveillance was useless one sharp young looking cop great story got some political things. from yours says your party is in a demographic death spiral in terms of the future as is unless you do a comprehensive immigration reform in a group that well i don't know if i could use the language that lindsay used but i agree with the thrust of what he said and i think that first of all i think the immigration bill is the right thing to do which is where you have to start to get

the politics it's the right thing to do we have millions of people here we have them here in this uncertain status most of them are decent people who are working most of them can make a contribution ok they made a mistake. who hasn't made a mistake they made a mistake for the right reason they wanted to come to america to be part of this great country i think you have to understand that and you have to embrace that and understand we can do something good with that rather than keep it negative and i do like the idea of the of the increased security at the border and that isn't even so much because of illegal immigration i like that increased security because of my fear of terrorism because of my fear of things getting over the border without our detecting it it could lead to you know some kind of catastrophic act in the united states or a your party or is it going well you know you don't have that he's right demographically if you know if you don't. people guillotine knows and women and blacks you almost

look good in america you can't win well you certainly put yourself in a very difficult position but. many many times in my lifetime and yours was predicted the demise of the republican party or the democratic. row or the goldwater republicans with dead they were finished they lost every state but one of them richard nixon became the next president when george bush got elected after eight years of ronald reagan the democratic party was finished their candidates were to have going along comes bill clinton they were in charge then bill clinton we were going to have al gore we got george. bush nothing is the republicans will finish and oh wait they got the house in ten so. we have problems but they have problems to and the question is who's who's going to i'm going to deal with their problems better and also a lot of it's going to be how effective is president obama what kind of a what kind of a not just legacy what kind of feeling does he leave behind has he been an

effective president has he been an ineffective president if he's an effective president we don't have to solve as many of our problems that kind of solves the fleet always good seeing you again thank you so much with your yankee bridge that never leaves it so we got to go again yes sure all right good as some of you let me know i want to thank my guests former senator joe lieberman and there are former new york mayor rudy giuliani great to have both with us politicking with larry king .

it is easy to see. if it possible to navigate the economy with all the details of his document information and media hype you up to date by decoding the mainstream headlines stated if in your right.

according to the law usaid is allowed to procure up to seventy five percent american products and transport them only on american ships. and that means that the shippers have a lot of interest in food aid policy and have been an incredibly effective lobby to fight for the status quo of sourcing in and shipping from the united states the u.s. government is the only government in the world that hasn't made substantial movements in the direction of enabling local procurement of food aid in developing countries in order to respond faster and more cheaply to food emergencies as they arise. so even today the food must first be balt then loaded on a ship in american harbor and then travel for several months in order to reach africa.