on larry king town nutrition and the politics of food our panel of experts separate food fact from fiction we tend to be prisoners are going to taste preferences if we look at the number of people that are rated as either obese or overweight the united states we're looking at about two thirds of the adult population the truth about g.m.o. those fifty countries have you know either restrictions or outright bans on genetically engineered products and one of the only countries that down this is the largest you need nutritional human experiment africa and could your diet be making you sick if you walk in any grocery store with a dollar going to be able to buy more calories and processed food than you can and fresh vegetables there that's an issue all next on larry king now.

welcome to larry came out a very important topic today nutrition going to set the record straight on what's healthy what's isn't and the effects of our diet on our overall health with us today is dr lauren cord damed professor at colorado state university founder of the highly popular player diet his latest book is the player and certainly recommends a diet like our hunter gatherer ancestors fruit vegetables and fresh meats cat cora's a chef the first woman inducted into the killer a hall of fame a restaurant tour and author and started the nonprofit organization chefs feel manatee devoted to fighting obesity and hunger she's an omnivore and is appropriate in and of local seasonal food and dr t. colin campbell professor emeritus of nutritional biochemistry of nutritional biochemistry at cornell university. he's the author of the international bestseller

the china study and his latest book is whole rethinking the science of nutrition it's in bookstores now dr campbell advocates a plant based whole food diet americans of fatter than ever the u.s. center for disease control predicts that forty two of a percent of americans will be obese by twenty thirty is this a major calamity dr absolutely if we look at the number of people that are rated as either obese or overweight the united states we're looking at about two thirds of the adult population so i cat the bottom line is it's cheap and healthy mix with that in terry diet if you walk into any grocery store with a dollar going to be able to buy more calories and process they than you can and fresh vegetables there that's an issue we're in a big pickle when you can do that are we living with misconceptions dr campbell obesity we tend to think of it as a separate disease when in reality from my perspective in research this is an

indication of disease that to come so is part of the whole sort of collection of heart disease cancer does it come back to nutrition it does conduct nutrition very much so although exercise physical activity is obviously important to what's the biggest misconception doctor about nutrition. three squares a day. you know there's many misconceptions about nutrition but i think nutrition needs to have a governing paradigm and that's what it lacks and so what our research group kind of brings to the table is the notion that evolution through natural selection is the most powerful idea in all of biology and what we have done is we've tried to apply that to nutrition and so that is the template by which we've come at this and we've studied the diets of hunter gatherers in contrast of them to the diets of western people hunter gatherers don't develop obesity is nutrition well taught in our schools i think that we need much stronger curriculum when it comes to

nutrition i think you know a lot of kids and our public schools and in general in america still think you know they they look at catch up and that's tomatoes they don't know where food comes from and i think that that's a big issue and you know for the next generation of people to calm you know we have an epidemic of obesity but we also have a food insecurity in this country and that coupled together is a big mass that the camera we still get is a still true that low fat low carb low sugar all good ideas for the whole food pipe based diet and about eighty percent seventy to eighty percent of the total calories in that kind of diet come from cold hydrate i think the word low carb has been misused has been characterized as something pretty simple you just take on carbs and what we've really been to sort of here and this is the part that we could agree on is the simple carbohydrates three find providers those are problems never taking out the sugar taking out the white flour that kind of thing that that's difficult

but in terms of the plant based diet the whole food privatised just by nature you know about seventy eighty percent of the total energy is from couple hundred period of sugar bad well i think it's been you avoid it. it's a quantitative issue and i think that there are healthy she. if you can get your sugars from fruits and vegetables those represent low glycaemic index sugars and so for most people we don't have a whole lot of trouble with that it's the refined sugars a common processed foods that are the problem of a split let's get into process food search what do define it what is a process food processed foods of the kind of things that are sort of depart from the natural food the natural food in the whole nation the whole food processed foods and what we dream up and we want to take out a room this little that even if it comes from plant based foods we put it together we end up with something that tastes good what people like and it's you know it's high five hundred sugar kind of stuff according to new york times americans eat

thirty one percent more packaged food than fresh food consume more packaged food per person than their counterparts in almost every ton tree if you look at the five big commodities in this country that are you know if you look at the farm bill you know we spend a hundred million dollars a year on the farm bill hundred billion dollars a year on the farm bill twenty five billion a bag as a grow and the five big commodities that soybean weight rice cotton corn high fructose sugar and syrups things like that that all goes into process feed now you advocate a whole food plant based diet which should be different from dr cor dame who develops the player which is completely different from his diet right here we're allowed to have an argument here referee hack a you know we're about one hundred eighty degrees of the spectrum differ and call it and i have debated this issue for longer than a decade so we have our disagreements but we also have our agreements and it's my

the basic disagreement is beat the basic disagreement i think animal based foods are something that are required by our species and without eating animal foods or nutrients you simply can't get in a plant based diet the response that i think there's a bit of an oversimplification because i think the. that will based foods are a problem but what triggers that for me is the protein content of animal based foods compared to plant basis we tend to think that animal. inside the protein in some meat yeah that's what most people think in reality plants have printed and it's the studies that we've done over the years we need program absolutely protein but the amount of protein implied based bruises anough and the problems we see with protein and that means bryson cholesterol levels increasing sperm or cancer or a whole host of different things that occurs as soon as we go to that what class provided we start adding more animal food meals that have caused by a protein

a plant really gives. leave notes and the whole food to a mean you know whole grains get more protein and refined sugar centers is absolutely right the metal oblate a little you know ma ma view on diet in the way that i've lived most of my adult life is on a very holistic diet and it's a balanced diet and everything in moderation and that's the way that you know i've always eaten i'm in excellent health i exercise seven days a week that's a big part of exercise is important but you know i believe that you know veganism vegetarianism or if you are an omnivore it's how you handle your diet versus what diet you're eating i know a lot of agents hands that is a very unhealthy diet because they don't under is about education it's about understanding just like do people know that there's a high protein and lagoons a lot of people don't argue dr campbell is it true that cancer can be attributed more to diet than to genes yes definitely i mean we all have our genes obviously

and each of us as individuals have our own sort of basic template d.n.a. in the d.n.a. right in all of our cells you know numbering someone for their turn ten one hundred trillion cells the gene we might have some missed of his genes all of us do in my give rise to this that or something else and everything starts the genes but the mere presence of the g.'s doesn't necessarily make a difference what makes a difference is the expression of the chance it's really have in season the garden things will grow if we give it fertilizer if we've got they have genes we get the wrong stuff we're going to basically turn to these but the good name can be bad nutrition affect the brain absolutely so. we know that in a typical western diet it's low and long chain and mega three fatty acids if you happen to consume the diet dr campbell advocates will be low in a long chain to make it through fatty acids because there are no long chain mega threes in any plant foods and so we know that long chain to make it through that

yes and supplementation. influence brain function and it helps people were relieved the f.d.a. is the only supplement they ever recommend as omega three you know i have a degree different taken in making three fats in there is true you know if you look an individual they do some things look like they're rather good but you see those things weren't people consuming high fat diets we have experimentation and if you get people down to the low fat like the plague based diet those differences between the different kinds of products there's hardly almost disappear there are a lot of labels on meat in grocery stores we see organic free range hormone free the if i see that i assume healthy doesn't free range that means good right well it can it depends on again how how is that particular animal handled these or how does a customer know out as well tomorrow that's you know again we've got to put the education out there for the consumer it's really hard i mean talk about g.m.o. i mean let's talk about you know that for a minute the genetically engineer organisms that you know. every fifty countries

you know around the world have you know either restrictions or outright bans on genetically engineered. products and we're the only country one of the only countries that down you know if you look at orange and honestly you know americans should know it's going into their feed and i think that just now where we're getting the point where we're are saying you know this is organic this is all natural we're telling people is all that info on getting worse in oregon is organic but not necessarily generally it is if you look at the terms of pesticides so has a lower pesticide load but if you look at the vitamins and minerals differences between organic and non-organic they're very subtle there's not much differences about locally sourced foods well for one thing it tends to be cleaner you know a little more again if you were less pesticides if you're doing the right kind of people also food grown like that it actually has a better taste i still remember picking wild strawberries is an entirely different

kettle of what's coconut water i can address coconut oil oil coconut. sop to be very unhealthy because none of saturated fat but the most recent evidence coming from metta analyses out of the harvard school of public health now show that saturated fat actually is not involved in overall mortality from cardiovascular disease largest studies over done and published and since two thousand that is a very yeah you know i know some of those are know the people involved and one of the the concerns that i have of is the way we do the science when we're taking people consuming in a kind of diet is basically pretty high in fat and protein and low and you know vegetables and stuff like that the response we get from those kind of people nest most of this response is very different than it would be if all these people were eating a whole food pipe it's a different story and you don't get you don't see that kind of thing in research. because it you know it has never been a very popular idea and by the way this is not big news and there's not

vegetarianism just not what got to me word i got through and several decades of good work in this because ninety percent of the vegetarians tend to assume consume a lot of dairy and this is something you're not magriel it's right and they get it's you know sound ok they're overboard in animal food and you would think that's ok but in reality the begins just because they're trying to avoid animal food they'll tend to use process for it's high in fat high and salt high and sugar and so there's some gain for them but he lives that well you know i don't think you life i think the issue here is if you're doing a vegetarian vegan diet because you think you're going to end their whole diet or make you think you're going to eat a plant based diet to improve your health and increased longevity that is not the case the largest studies ever of vegetarians forty thousand individual show that they die in their overall mortality is the same rate as the general public from cardiovascular disease or cancer coming out genetically modified food as

a safe or should we be steering clear plus is the government partially to blame for the obesity epidemic we'll talk about that right after the break. some of these traditional chili lines they've been bred and developed and passed down from generation to. this is a total destruction of the culture in mexico i tell him i mean this this is not going to impact asylum in new mexico whatever happens here of course about the whole world now we're eating at about six in the in the open in the you know all the ordinance or. in their crops why do you think this country is full of obese and sick people because we have a crappy food system. download

the official application to your cell phone choose your language stream quality and enjoy your favorites from alzheimer's if you're away from your television in the car it just doesn't matter now with your mobile device you can watch artsy anytime anywhere. here's mitt romney trying to figure out the name of that thing that we americans call a dollar. i'm sorry i'm just a guy who cares an awful lot like you sorry are you know what that is my other terrorist cells in your neighborhood no one in the usa to defeat terrorism be on the ball and the christian. can see your beliefs about the. you know

the corporate media distracts us from what you and i should care about because their profit driven industry that sells us and facials that garbage because that breaking news i'm having martin and we're going to break that. come. back with our great panel about the warren court damn cat cora and out to t. colin campbell is the government a little bit to blame here in our lives or not should the government be more involved in our knowledge about nutrition and what plants they put down on food what they tell us absolutely i mean if you look at again was go back to the farm bill if you look at the farm bill and you know where in a situation where we have an epidemic of obesity in this country we were. that where in a situation where eighty percent of the farm bill is going to food stamps you know

one in four americans make less than ten dollars an hour i mean so of course when they take that their money and their twenty five dollars a week into the grocery store what are they going to do they're going to pack that full of calories any way they can where all that let's discuss this is new to me the age old food pyramid that was only used to have now is replaced by the food plate that came in in two thousand and eleven it's a big project of michelle obama and we see that she's my plate we're all for whole foods fresh produce what about can keep a lid with this and what about people who live in in what is called food deserts well you know the way i would approach them my plate is that two of those food groups were never part of the human diet for two and a half million years humans never ate grains we didn't eat dairy products you can't know how wild animal so. if humans humans to do quite well on fruits vegetables and meats and seafood and we get anything and all nutrients we need you

know i've been on something panels for i spent about twenty years and for national policy panels and things like that the stories of it is certain the food plate which comes out of the dietary guidelines committee of the united states supported agriculture i've seen these changes over the years the tend to be very trivial they tend to be very trivial first off and first and secondly i haven't been on those those kinds of panels the government is in terms of putting these panels together is really controlled by the private sector is the industries where there's the food industry or the drug industry they're the where is it a problem for you is that many very well but it looks like that's reality and so what we get out of these panels is usually your lawyers reese coming nominee kind of statement i like the new farm bill it cuts that cuts food stamps it has cut food stamps it also cuts five billion dollars off of small farmers. i think it's going to be devastating to a lot of farmers one of the things it does it's incorporated the snap program which

is basically a program teaching inner city kids and people that come from low economic backgrounds what they should spend their money on with their food stamps should you spend your money on refined carbohydrates and junk food or should you spend it on real food so i think in that regard that's a very positive step that the government has taken what about genetically modified foods g.m.o. foods i have a problem with that just from the standpoint of how genes work in a very very complex the kinds of outcomes from the different kind of genes and when we change one gene or the time which is basically a g.m.o. type of thing. then we get the result we might like for the moment but there can be unintended consequences for the things you know a lot of from obama's call of the five that he supports that sports monsanto. well they haven't come completely out and we haven't seen you know documentation that really states that i will say along the lines of the doctors that you know

absolutely i think this is the largest you know nutritional human experiment ever is g.m. and i don't think we know the long term effects at and i can definitely say that we are going to have we have short term effects but we have not seen yet what the long term effects of that is very scary that we do not have we do not require genetic labeling i want to know when i go to the grocery store like all the other americans i have the right to know what's in my food absolutely have the right to know that is there a country in the world that you would look to that says that it has more of a handle on this than anybody i would almost pick sweden in a sense because they were one of the first that took some responsibility of trying to come up with your consensus from the scientific community about what we should need to agree the proof is in the party and what we need to do is we need to look at mortality rates from all causes combined and so some of the scandinavian companies were the first to push. low animal based products but we didn't see

a corresponding reduction in mortality rates who lives longer want to because they didn't change what really believe the longest what areas or area the world people live that's what we're talking about living longer right japanese population has a very not necessarily asia per se but the japanese have one of the largest longest lifespans exercise still important matter how you eat well absolutely it's fifty percent of absolute belief is fifty percent of it she g.e. differently as you age no i don't think so not really no if you maintain a healthy diet you like michelle obama's let's move campaign actually was there to help kick that off chefs move to school campaign because of being a chef and we kick that off and i think michelle obama you know i have to give her . a lot of respect to the fact that she has done more for gannett farming and organic food and nutrition in this country than any other administration you from mississippi which has the highest obesity absolutely r k i must state

a struggling poorest absolutely is thirty five percent and it is the poorest and i will in we go back to that because really it is about low income you talk about food deserts you know and that's you know it's not necessarily state by state it's there's populations in all widespread parts of the united states that have food deserts and it's low income it's lack of education lack of access and that's that really causes a lot of the epidemic that we have going on we have some social media questions for you that i'm a kimmie and faceless as is there any evidence that supplements work i would say that there's two supplements that most people in this country ought to be taking one are long chain to make it three fatty acids and the other is vitamin d. if you're a plant based diet you're going to be guaranteed you're going to have a low vitamin d. plasma status and you're going to have low long chain to make it through so no i don't think is the need for supplements i'm a nurse some organ for big twelve for people who lead to problems that i've never

taken some limits in the argument for omega three s. in my view is based on studying the wrong group of people at gamma vs wire g.m.o. has been completely in most countries but not in the united states it's a great question in france and germany i think that they they've been doing it for a decade where you know they've demanded genetic labeling even for less than one percent of an ingredient in a generic that's genetically modified in a packaged food curtis colons via google ass what do you think the future holds for our society as we shift to food needing to be gluten free that's an excellent point if you look at the number the percentage of people in the united states that have celiac disease about one percent in the recent five years or so. at least the sun is group of the universe. maryland has now shown that gluten sensitivity is a huge issue affecting perhaps five to seven percent of the population so. we we have an epidemic going on with gluten containing foods at audio file lawson oh this

is a great question how to marry delicious and nutritious. yet easy to hear and they find it and we tend to be prisoners are going to taste preferences and so if we get over to eat now i would argue this low fat low protein plant based diet you get rid of these sort of addictions to fat things like this always sudden new taste begin to emerge and ethnic cuisine is as great it's you know the very little processed foods every country every society has slightly different cuisines to go with that you know you can take spices herbs this interests all those types of things and make something just come alive make their lives i was going to have each given a stance on health and nutrition so you doctor for again where we make a little speech where we go on how are we doing well it is a measure of the beginning of the show is that intrusion is. an organizational

paradigm to bring everything together people humans come up with diets and that's not how other organisms work other organisms have nutritional needs that are based on their genes and are based on evolution through natural selection so why not take this idea of the most powerful idea in all of biology and medicine and put it as a template over what not just our species but any species should eat why does a tiger become a carnivore and why does a deer be an herb of war why not take that template look at what our hunter gatherer ancestors were consuming and use that to mimic as a template to mimic what we should be eating today cat michael's speech i think we need more education and more money put into educating america on attrition and especially our younger generation. our kids need to know that you know for it's investable don't come from you know the grocery store bush or the supermarket tree that there is a place that they come from and we need to make fresh food is assessable to these

food deserts and to people that in our local low income areas or lack of education or. they just don't have access to it and that's a really really important part of combat obesity and one of the biggest parts is people need to start cooking at home or if you start cooking at home or you know what's going in your food it's you know what you're buying it's fresh it's whole foods and that's going to be not only that but you're teaching your kids you're making memories it's a feel good it's emotional how well being it's mental well being and it's it's just so well being and dr campbell you know i think i agree with dr cord in a nurse in here on this point that we need a new paradigm a new world through you know what organ the book in fact that's exactly what we wrote the book for whole year and that paradigm actually tends to shift or think in a way we analyze and interpret nutrition and its effects on house and so i would argue that we that number suggests we do have

a new paradigm now it's we're new trance infinite number almost tend to work together in a very sort of symphonic worry to produce an outcome of very sort of kind of diseases and it's the same message for all prevention of all these things and these days it's not just preventing future disease problems it's actually treating existing for problem we can reverse heart disease no cure heart disease the way stages we can cure type two diabetes you know we we can do that within within virtually days to weeks. and that's what i'm talking about this whole food place that has this amazing property to do that thanks to our guest dr campbell glad to corday macapp want to give me your thoughts on nutrition find me on twitter at kings things i will see about stud.

me is eat eat eat eat eat eat. eat eat. to. see.

anything wrong. wrong . primarily it's to allow all the crops to drink poison. herbicide. eighty five percent of all the g.m. crops are sold with the herbicide that it's designed not to die for. so rolled up

ready soil is designed not to die from around the earth as genetic engineering is on the coat tail of conventional and does feel agriculture that is characterized by the proliferation of agro chemicals fertilizers pesticides herbicides fungicides all of these chemicals. costs in on energy production they have cost in environmental cleanup this is self-propagating genetic pollution we have no technology today to fully clean up the damage maybe we will in the future but we're not feeding the products of a different size to the entire population and releasing even to the environment where they can never be recall. any scientists who tells you they know that g m o's are safe and not worry about it is either ignorant of the history of science or is due.