a saudi prince defect saying no to the morning practices of injustice abuse. against those willing to expose the wrongdoings of the ruling elite here and we talk to him exclusively. about jails bursting at the seams with political prisoners saudi arabia is eagerly promoting tolerance abroad and made muted international condemnation towards its tactics. also to boycott or not gay rights activists are split on whether the winter olympics should be the target of protests against russia's new law on homosexuality propaganda to mine.

with me a very busy program for you on this monday let's get straight into it. mind what you say otherwise you could end up languishing in jail at best that's apparently the message the saudi authorities are sending to their nationals and the countries prisons are packed with anti regime activists whose numbers by some estimates are now at more than thirty thousand the crackdown has exposed a chasm within the ruling family as well and r.t. arabic spoke exclusively to saudi prince. who became a dissident himself taking a stand against the monarchy is methods. the government is obviously scared of the arab revolutions and they responded as they usually do by resorting to oppression violence arbitrary law and arrest but the easiest thing they can do is deprive you

of your salary or fire you altogether so the ruling regime is not guarded by justice and this is especially true of the ministry of interior there is no independent judiciary that has both police and the prosecutor's office are countable to the interior ministry the ministries officials investigate crimes they call them crimes related to freedom of speech so they fabricate evidence don't allow people to have attorneys things like that happen all over the place they even put people under arrest for an indefinite amount of time even if a court rules to release such a criminal or the ministry of interior keeps him in prison even though there is a court order to release him and there have even been killings killings and as for the external opposition saudi intelligence forces buying these people abroad there is no safety inside or outside the country could you describe these people who oppose the royal family and what are their goals like opposition used to demand

wider people's representation in governing bodies more rights and freedom but the authorities reacted with violence and persecution instead of a dialogue and now the opposition wants this regime gone but we both know that despite the numerous human rights violations and saudi arabia your country seldom faces straight decision from the west and from the united states in particular when senior u.s. officials meet with their saudi counterparts basically can't be any critical comments from washington because i mean. what the white house certainly does maintain a longstanding alliance with the leaders of saudi arabia that cemented by common interests in the middle east to that end there are classified contacts between riyadh in. the u.s. administration in recent time they've been employed to step up the government administered reforms but those reforms are not driven by the elites desire to empower the people of the kingdom that the instead they are merely urged by reforms that the regime might call unless it reforms itself oppression is widespread in

saudi arabia there is no free speech no freedom of expression corruption is rampant in all areas from the level bureaucrats to hiring officials in every civil servant is very skillful in using bribes in their operations. and despite saudi arabia's firm drive to tighten the noose around the necks of political activists at home and so freely preaching liberal ideas and tolerance to others as they see france looks at why exactly this political line is being widely labeled as hypocritical. as saudi arabia violently squashes the voice of any opposition we see it sitting front and center in discussions of the democratic transition of power within other countries such as syria on the one hand it reportedly ships arms to the opposition in syria on the other hand peaceful opposition in saudi arabia is answered with prison sentences torture even death for people whose voice their own opinion in fact in october two thousand and twelve amnesty international calls on the saudi

authorities to stop using excessive force against pro-democracy protesters here are just a few examples from this year alone on june seventeenth me cliff mari was convicted of so we discord and other offenses through writings and exposure of human rights abuses he got five years in prison june twenty fourth seven men were convicted of inciting protest illegal gatherings and breaking allegiance with the king mostly by joining facebook pages and posting messages they each got between five and ten years in prison then we've got editor rafe by dowie convicted of insulting islam and authorities through his website and during television interviews he was sentenced to seven years in prison and six hundred lashes and these conditions anyone with something substantial to say about the government society or religion would be blamed for keeping a low profile and this is where the man being called the saudi of songe comes in no one knows who he is what he looks like or where he lives his prolific tweets denouncing the ruling family as corrupt and enriching themselves from government

coffers have earned him over a million followers he is known only as much to heat i spoke with him over google chat to find out why he stays in hiding because it's not for safety i asked him why you remains anonymous he said ironically and on anybody boost his credibility and courage of people to follow him and talk about his stories without worrying i asked if this meant that people could pay less attention to his biography and more attention to his message he pointed out there were can destroy your credibility easily. and deter people from dealing with you if your identity is public well to heat is forced underground a new monarchy backed religious type or city center has launched its own charm offensive in vienna according to its mission statement it encourages dialogue among followers of different religions and cultures king abdullah has also announced a donation of one hundred million to set up a united nations center for fighting terrorism one of its four pillars is to prevent conditions conducive to the spread of terrorism and ensuring respect for

human rights so while the king's clerics preach a hardline form of islam that often becomes a breeding ground for extremism saudi arabia is assuming a moral high ground in advising other nations in transitional democracy. well germany is facing an avalanche of criticism over its fifty arms deals with saudi arabia and other gulf nations who can't exactly boast of having better human rights records than riyadh for example or berlin's weapons export to the gulf monarchies have almost tripled in just two years here are the stats for you five hundred seventy million euros in twenty eleven to almost a billion in twenty twelve i'm going to merkel's government has approved weapons exports of now more than eight hundred million euros in the first half of this year are suggesting the level will continue to grow the six countries in the region berlin sells weapons to saudi arabia bahrain qatar kuwait oman and the united arab emirates suffered of which of course as we know have seen government crackdowns on

anti regime protesters since the arab spring saudi arabia though by far the biggest buyer last year importing one point two four billion euros of military hardware activists also claimed german made small firearms i mean military vehicles were commonly used by middle east and north african regimes to suppress peaceful demonstrations. well adam kugel from a human rights watch he believes that foreign players should drop their business interests and actually think twice before supplying gulf monarchies with such high tech weapons western countries in general should look at the widespread crackdown that's going on against human rights political and pro reform activists going on in the country when they make these deals they should these governments that have good relationships with the saudis should make it clear that what they're doing. is really goes against the pro reform agenda that king abdullah has been trumpeting

since he came to power in two thousand and five what we've seen in the last at least i could say in two thousand and thirteen is an increasing crackdown we've seen many high profile convictions over the last few months women's rights activists are uni and was on the way there got ten months in prison for merely trying to assist a woman who was in distress who claimed that she was she was not being provided enough food to live and they they went to her house to try to help her and the police arrested her so we're seeing a widespread campaign against anyone who speaks out against the policies of the. current government and any activist who calls for human rights reforms and political reforms and i think that these western countries that have military relationships or other relationships with saudi arabia should make clear that this is unacceptable behavior. live from moscow this is our hope and you can stay tuned we have a very heated debate on the olympics a boycott demanded by international gay rights activists over

a new law on homosexuality propaganda to minors that's coming up very soon after a short break. choose your language. make a widow in a financial center say sell some of. the consensus get to. choose the opinions that invigorating to. choose the stories that in your life choose the access to your office.

interview.

pleasure to have you with us here on our team today i'm really sushi.

thank you for joining us here on our show you moscow russia's interior ministry has said there'll be no discrimination against gay people coming to watch or even participate in the sochi winter olympics that's the latest response to pressure put on russia by the western l g b t community calling for a boycott of the games it's a protest a new law or against nontraditional sexual relations propaganda to minors now here at sea we've invited a panel of guests for an in-depth discussion of the issues joining us here in the studio today we have a concertina brought skia from the russian l.g. p.t. sports federation we have our arts and culture reporter martin andrews artie's correspond and he said no way and joining us live from london right here julie bindel who co-founded the feminist group justice for women and political

commentator alexander in the class of all of you joining us here in our very well welcome to all of you here indeed i'm just going to start off very quickly here and just took a straight to you christine you're brought to you from l.g. bt sport is it right to boycott the olympics no it's not trying to we were completely cool and. please because. it's. treatment in the modern history of the movement we had to boycotts it must be nine hundred eighty and in the early one nine hundred eighty four and couldn't compete in a highly competitive atmosphere for twelve years it's not the food that we have been together legislation in russia let's be honest be very clear about that this is being used as a cliche across the world calling this an anti gay lower in russia it is actually an amendment prohibits gay propaganda to minors and if i can for a moment cost a team that's a toss it over to london julie bindel there can i ask you who do you think would stand to benefit from boycotting the sochi winter olympics. i think lesbians and

gay people around the world would stand to benefit because we are it international community bonded by the homophobia that affects all of us and what we have to do is take a stand against the fact that the government is actually preventing education rather than propaganda that is desperately needed feel people who are growing up lesbian and gay growing up with prejudice this causes death it causes distress anti gay bullying is terrific but it also is deep in issues because of course it is starting to silence the liberals the good people in russia who would normally be allies of lesbian and gay people because of course they don't speak out so it's not just the bigots the homophobes that it's giving more power to siling think they're good allies so i think we need to take an international stand and we need to look at it in the same way as the court said people in south africa under apartheid and we

refused to allow the south africans to send a whites only but surely if i can jump in just for a moment here because ultimately many are saying shouldn't be a lympics just be about sports alexander that class offer you your thoughts on that . well i think first of all i've been asking some people here what is it exactly that british athletes are playing to do in sort of other going to. get the lifestyles are they going to compete actually in the games themselves and i think that a lot of this exam was of hysteria actually was created by the letter written by stephen fry who compared russia to nazi germany and basically i think personally that he should apologize to the russian veterans and the russia itself a country that lost millions and millions of people there and i think that was basically inflaming the situation and i think it was a publication. julie's trying to jump in there julie you had something to say right

. he's absolutely right stephen fry is right this is exactly how the jews were scapegoated in nazi germany the good people the allies you really need to hear you hear you and see and. be appalled at her died in russia called do you look like a good nice yields my fabulous and really great because if you're me with your list of those of people i think of lost a little girl the chips who died in the war and for your information the soldiers were carrying to save people then the constant. doing good that's right so good i said something if i might want to. just for a moment julie just a moment for julie have you ever been to russia julie can you actually tell us about how long can you tell us what the law actually states and not even a law in itself it is an amendment to a law protecting children no one's going to argue here that we actually doesn't have an issue if that is in fact

a law that is to protect children against propaganda to minors i want you to i mean lots of juda carry on please it's not propaganda it's social and sex education the propaganda is coming from those that are forcing young gay and lesbian people under the age of eighteen to see nothing other than heterosexuality it causes suicide it calls itself and it causes a great deal of distress that the supportive parents of these young people my family were were treated appallingly during the program in russia and escaped and came to the u.k. this is exactly what is going to happen to any of those lesbian gay people who are in russia right now who have the church really you're i mean you're dragging up you're treading up a lot of a dark history here which regarding the current subject here that this new amendment prohibiting gay propaganda to children if i can for a moment. there in london as well was mentioning how this was compared to the holocaust of the jews martin andrews's here you are a cultural correspondent here in moscow if not

a fair comparison do you think we. first of all not just the arts and culture correspondent i mean gay man living in russia have been for eight years so i understand the differences between living in london and living in moscow and first of all i always bring up to two comments regarding this entire situation first of all i think the law is wrong the law is bad and it should be cherry and so i think the timing for the russian government with such coming up is terrible however there's a little thing called section twenty eight which margaret thatcher brought in in one thousand nine hundred eight which was a similar law for the protection of children which went all the way into two thousand and three so first of all even though that was in place in the u.k. the gay community went along with the lifestyle to the gay marriage that we have today which is a great thing so that if therefore does not prove that even though it was a law that was put in the wrong place actually culture actually nurtured itself that's one thing the second thing is why does nobody ever mention qatar the world cup coming up is that because two reasons i think that is i spoke to one of our friends in the government the in the u.k. he said that's because it's so suppressed over there it doesn't matter which i

think is just ridiculous and the second comment was that because it's football homo sexual interest doesn't go along with our sport which i think is absolutely ridiculous finally having lived here for eight years you or i think many people in the u.k. are putting the law as it would be here in life in the u.k. culture here is completely completely different for example just because there is a written law does not mean that that filters down into society yes there's been murders yes there's been problems but the smoking ban came in recently partly people are still smoking by the metro seat belts have been laws have been laws about that still doesn't filter down a problem this is. really your sharing my son and i think that russia has been really miss represented and i am saying that little bit thing a lot is a bad thing but the way the law is being portrayed in the west i just want to go through some of the things and also the delayed reaction to the law it went into effect june thirtieth the first big headline we started to hear was on july twenty

first in the new. york times putin declares war on homosexuals is that the case know the independent homophobic laws lead to attacks on gay young men russes war on gays and the list goes on it's not being represented for the law as it is whether or not the law is good or bad we can debate forever but i think that's a good there's a lot about you know not only just for a moment a set that has just one but all about to julie you are there with me chomping at the bit what do you have to say from love yes. well you know the demonstration on saturday in london showed very clearly the number of lesbian and gay men who are from russia who have lived in russia who have connections family connections with russia were all an equivocal in their demands they demand that the international lesbian and gay community and the international human rights community support that yes we had section twenty eight brought into the government and we fought to get it to polished this little this amendment in russia is even more pernicious because of

the huge fines it imposes a little denies ations and individuals who even mention gay rights but i was going to write i just you know i constantly as a journalist here in suicide put you know i constantly as a journalist here go on about gay rights in russia and i on this channel i've spoken various networks around the world about this i've not been penalized or find out or i'm just trying to give you good people at home the reality of the situation here i posted on facebook on saturday. obviously the protests and as as a basic journalist here i know the reality of life and i just wanted to put to stop the exterior you know it doesn't snow all year around there's a simmering active thriving gay community in russia and indeed in sochi when i was filming the last week and there is one there and i just wanted to actually give my calm humble mature opinion regarding gay life in russia and i was nothing short of i was assassinated thought of for having possibly you know you know pro you know

thoughts on russia which is seen as as evil russia and why do people not go on about i want to put people like go on about singapore yes the rule is bad but i just don't think people should say. is it ok if you're a case of a lot of double standards i want to talk about a political commentator oleksandr there in london as well as the recent levada a lot of the poll recently saying that more than half of russian support the law and conservative traditions are alexander your thoughts on the. well i heard that those two thugs who were supporting below but that might tell you something about the libor a lot be here and the game will be as well we've. none none existing debate about gay marriage same sex marriage the debate was suppressed by the liberal elite nobody was allowed to say anything the moment you questioned you know whether it's a wise thing to do you were immediately accused of being

a coma for good i think it's time for the gay community to realise you cannot prevent other people from having their own views and in london you know of what goes there on computers and i think it's total intolerance total doldrums by the by the liberal elites that note a lot of this political correctness has turned into censorship and just because the likes of this or have been one of the people and david cameron who are using quite using the gay rights to shield themselves from failing a lot is you know we are all being silenced well being fred didn't actually and people lose jobs along with the bigotry should be started to say anything and with the way you are saying you mentioned programs that were never in your programs on the russia how do you accuse russians of them that was ukraine you should know this and they had nothing to do with gays so you'll twist facts just like by the way stephen fry who said the book on the issue of course he was gay he was not an i os

i was the family tree. and your budget welcome to news who continues to lie like that stop lying i found that xander actually i'm going to bring in a kind of got to cut in from moscow here because ultimately at the end of the day we're talking a live picture and that if the sport is such a winter olympics and all of the countries and i think this gets forgotten maybe constantine can can can drop in on this as well have signed an olympic charter which states that there is no kind of demonstration or political religious or racial propaganda allowed to any olympic sites venues or other areas martin was there last week they're getting ready. is the l z b t community going to allow this lympics to become about gay rights and not about the olympics and also what about other minorities that feel like they need to have their say at the olympics how many protests are we going to see or we're going to have a gay pride protest and then a protest about western countries that want to intervene in syria and then another protests from the environmentalists they don't think the olympics should be held

there at all everyone is going to want to have their say so for you constantine you're about the sport you represent the community in russia where is this going to go. well i. think that did you did you believe that the south africans when they were ruling with the polish side should have been allowed to send an all white team because the elim know what i'm sorry about is that a boycott a little bit about him and what you have just raised it for the minority in the country you cannot change politics of another kind or is it did say out this sent a message no one pushed on the you get you get rid of sanctions said what les said russia will develop and its gay community will this is really we should mention what is with time but it has to be up to them i just want to see that your julie julie does have a point where we don't you know we have we have to accept that we do julie you do have a point constantine you are going to have my opinion. must be there is no place for

a boycott for liam biggs and their call all the the friendly countries and national teams to raise their rainbow flags and to march at the opening ceremony parade holding hand by hand man to be the man and we've been with me in order to show their solidarity within the l.g.b. community doesn't the olympics then become not about sport and about the l g b t community well according to the article picture. sport is a human right so and the limbic spirit of peace and friendship going to stand together over the any form of discrimination including discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and limbic. high time to show the solidarity from all over the boat and to change the situation in my country because of a lot of the russian energy p.t.'s poor federation is arts and culture reporter

martin andrews artes and he said no way joining us live from london today julie bindel the co-founder of the feminist group justice for women also political commentator alexander in the class of a big thank you to both of you in london and all of you here in moscow thank you for participating in this heated debate here on the program for the meantime though we're back with more news in just a moment here on our team but coming up though it is people of l. and cost. the u.s. government project arrow marty has been in place for twenty years this project was designed to break the media monopoly of cuban television by putting u.s. government propaganda up to t.v. screens this injection of american t.v. works with a blimp and a c one thirty military plane working in tandem you know this would actually be a major achievement in the history of technology if it actually worked this program which over the years has built up

a billion taxpayer dollars simply does not work but continues to exist despite the cuban government completely blocking the transmission the official logic of continuing the program is that it would send a bad message to the cuban government if they stopped brilliance and action but the big question is who gives the u.s. government the right to propagandize cuba is just because they have a different lifestyle doesn't mean it is wrong and the u.s. government does has the right to destroy it and even if cubans on mass actually do hate their system then it is their job to change cuba not the military industrial complex and its cronies in washington but that's just my opinion.