and co i'm sophie shevardnadze and i save leagues have revealed there is very little left of the ideal crime to see phones are tapped the internet is tracked is there a way to slow it down to five or infer said or should we just face reality and accept the new world order. r i p. rest in privacy the world is in mourning for innocence lost edward snowden's revelations confront the worst case scenario they know they've always new technology has made big brother big. on this year and that which is god it's no more about you than your best friends or your most personal information is available at the touch of a button to big brother social networks have substituted rumors and connections governments behind it all claiming you are protected how safe is your info how

far should surveillance go is sacrificing privacy more claims of security. and our guest today is rich dr richard stallman software freedom activists and program and recently inducted into the internet hall of fame has joining us live from brussels it's really great to have you with us today dr stallman thank you now we're not that you don't own a phone why is that. well i do have a phone but it's not a mobile phone the reason is mobile phones are surveillance and tracking devices the phone system is constantly finding out where the phone is and they generally keep a record of this for months or years and that information is available to big brother very easily and i consider that oppresses. but it's worse they can be

remotely converted into listening devices because the software in the phone and even if it's not a smart phone it is a computer with software that can be changed remotely through what's called a back door which means it receives commands from somebody else to do something and what it does backdoor can do is install software changes without asking the supposed it owner of the phone and this has been used to remotely convert them into listening devices the book murder and samarkand by craig murry describes one example of this of the so basically once it's converted it listens all the time and it transmits all the time and if you try to turn it off well it doesn't really turn off it pretends to be off and continues list sitting in transmitting and this is part of why but was loaded in

a hole in the journalists who interviewed him to what is i think what are you using how do people get in touch with you oh well mostly through e-mail i also have a phone in my office course i'm not there and people can phone the free software foundation which will connect them with me one way or another. so people do reach me if the n.s.a. wanted to track you down right now they wouldn't be able to trace you. not so easily. now i'm not trying to prevent an investigation of me i'm not against the ability of the state to investigate people when there's the . some grounds for suspicion that they can take to a court and say please approve various kinds of searches of this person that needs to be done because we need a state to do a lot of things including catch criminals and prosecute them unfortunately the

plutocratic states today they only want to catch the small criminals the the giant criminals they're too big to jail but we do need that and i don't want to make that impossible what i object to is making a dot ca about everyone all the time because then if the state wants to get somebody even for a bad reason the state can get tremendous amounts of data and can always find something to punish that person for so we should design our digital system so that they're not recording data about everybody all the time they should be able to start recording data about somebody when a court gives an order to investigate that person but they shouldn't make a giant da ca of months or years of information about everybody because that starts to remember that starts to resemble what secret police did and i guess in effect

still do in lots of countries but you've been saying this for many many years i mean you've been talking about prison like programs like five ten years ago snowden made that point right right now and everyone's like aap in the air with it and like going crazy as well because they haven't proved. but what you say here here i would say away i don't know but listen to you when you are saying the sorry i'm very happy that snowden told us what the u.s. government and some other governments are really doing because i had no proof i've been saying for many years if we look at the pat riot act i won't call it patriotic because this is as unpatriotic as you can get in a country based on an idea of freedom i said look at this ali you would guess that they are collecting all the data about every one regularly so that you know fast enough that none of it gets or raced between collections but that was just

a guess so thanks to snowden we know that in some cases specifically phone calls the u.s. government is actually doing this and we know that there are. valence without even the flimsy limits of the u.s. government so i am tremendously happy to see that snowden has called the public's attention to this injustice because our cause now has more momentum we might maybe be able to stop this so how far can a surveillance system with such political support and that is gigantic as this be rolled back i don't know you see this depends on you this depends on the people who are watching so i'm interested in is asking are we going to win can we win i'm interested in doing whatever i can to win our freedom is its stake and this

is true for people all around the world i would guess that every country is increasing surveillance through digital technology to a level that is unprecedented in the world's history and less we had a true of a great insufficiency of surveillance before we should regard this as intolerable we must start rejecting the so-called internet services that demand to know all about us so don't use facebook for instance but can't tell you something though there are so many services that are important and we need to make sure that there that the surveillance that we did not and i leave all of the little in general is limited but i really need to tell you something when this whole surveillance scheme was uncovered ok everyone was in shock i was disturbed like

we're talking oh my god we can't believe we're being listened to and everything we do is being looked after but at the end of the day everyone is that ok so there's nothing we can do about it we're being listened to and we continue using facebook we'll continue using those gadgets because you know when i think it was when i'm. and we run what people around me and just think about it was that because people keep thinking well we're not doing anything wrong so what's wrong about being being looked after first of all this idea that if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide is ridiculous lots of people have things they want to hide from somebody you know some people for instance are gay and in certain countries they might get prosecuted for that so lots of people have but you know that you might think that you would do something that your boss wouldn't like if he knew like maybe he wouldn't like what party you vote for so lots of people have reasons not to want everybody to know everything about them with total surveillance though

. the state knows everything and some companies know everything and they can tell whoever they want so if you want to have the possibility of some privacy some day you had better join the fight now because now a bunch of other people are joining the fight now is the moment where you could make a difference if you wait until the day you wish you had some privacy and then try to do something well that day you will be one of the few people doing it and that will be enough you've got to join you've got to help make a critical may s. when other people were doing it and that's now but one of here end up like us science or snowden i mean we're looking at these guys and they're you know outcasts that are trapped and they're facing have well they're not outcasts no node at songes not an outcast millions of people including me admire him and snowden is not

an outcast millions of people in the u.s. and elsewhere at the narrow him invaded in sinai please don't exaggerate they have been received by the empire but not defeated. but they're so limited in their life in in what they do. there they decided to take these risks for all our freedom but they can't win by themselves it's up to us to carry the fight forward. we in any case by the way snowden will find a way to get to asylum companies and the government how close are they i could there be one without the other who is driving the relationship there will it's there's no simple answer but they work hand in hand in the us thanks to the

pat riot act all the data that companies collect about people they are required to turn over to the f.b.i. . without even a court order the f.b.i. just has to say we want this data we say it's relevant to something and then the company has to turn it over secretly so any time a company is collecting data about you it's collecting the data for its own purposes but also for the state. so we must consider that corporate surveillance of us is a part of state surveillance. of course they're both bad i don't want companies to have tremendous amounts of information about me either and i generally don't use the services that would give them that information you know you've said earlier don't use facebook talking about the social media in the platform people use to

communicate with each other all and i mean it's not all that bad right because i mean i wouldn't have yes it's horrible is a secret is a monstrous surveillance engine whatsit one shouldn't he is faced with a he to take photos of me i say please don't put photos in facebook in my speech at the beginning of my speeches i say if you take a photo of me please don't put it in facebook but what's an alternative for facebook or other social media sorry an alternative well are you are you demanding an alternative that's very similar to facebook because that's not my alternative my alternative to a nasty system is i just don't use it now i'm just a satellite from the premise i have to use one of those four things so even if they're all nasty i just have to i'm going to pick one while you're basically deciding to lose in advance so i don't use facebook and i don't want an

alternative to facebook but i think i used to say alliterative to fraserville to that i was using ten years ago i mean i know people who have been saved by it by a mere so what happens share button it's a good thing no so what people are connected throughout the world. or sorry people can be connected in lots of ways but from what i've read by the way the book alone together is very interesting what people do in facebook is they construct they carefully construct a false picture of themselves and we don't take a short break but coming up next what's more important than success is that it's free necessarily popular stay.

but he sees things that sighted people don't notice. he's dead. but he hears things most people never to call him disabled but he's the world's first deaf and blind doctor of science. professor i think other support of. the great life lived against the odds.

what do you think would be enough prize for americans and the west in general to realize that this noting with my audience is actually extremely counterproductive to our own national interests. all the allies in. the middle east be created all the create state. steve this is the best place for actually i think the organization to establish bases loaded. live. live. live below.

the speed. limit. with. little. bit misleading good. luck live. a little.

welcome back to the show our guest is softer freedom activist and dr richard stallman and we're talking about the big brother reality of the surveillance state so i gather steve jobs and bill gates aren't exactly your heroes but give knowledge their contribution in bringing so many people together creating this global community when they were embraced and nurtured innovation huge progress. malicious technology can't be excused if it has some good effects now we've got to realize that first of all microsoft's and apple software are proprietary that means users don't control the program rather the program controls the users well

that's an injustice and that's the existence of proprietary software although it wasn't for microsoft or apple back then is why i started the free software movement in addition to setting things up so that they control the program in the program controls the users then they started putting in malicious functionalities that spy on users intentionally restrict users and they're even back doors in that software so literally speaking apple software and microsoft software are malware and windows eight point one we're calling windows prism edition because it's designed to require people to send data to microsoft servers and of course microsoft will hand over any of that data to the us government on request so it puts the users in prism

this is the nastiness that's the natural result of letting a company have control over the software that the users are running instead of the users themselves so no i wish they hadn't done anything although i realize somebody else might have done it if they hadn't that's no excuse for their doing it now can free software generate the same level of digital innovation that proprietary software has done. i don't know i think it's a secondary question i think freedom is more important than innovation and when you look at a lot of the innovations that proprietary software generates they're harmful like the x. box one which has a camera that's designed to determine who is in the room how many people they are at least and whether they're looking at the x. box that's an innovation one that we shouldn't stand for of course the x. box is nasty in lots of ways before that but this is an example of how it's

a mistake to make innovation our goal but do you feel like people have voluntarily traded their freedom for that jets and and form what partly yes but remember that companies are steering them by saying you can have this convenience but only if you let us be nasty to you in that way and yet people who are not sensitized to the issue they might say yes but there's no fundamental reason why this convenience has to require that nastiness it's that a company figures maybe they can get you to accept that nastiness by attaching it to this convenience now if we had control over how things were built we could have this convenience in most cases without that nastiness sometimes it's difficult but mostly they're connected artificially now here's the point is we need more control over our technology now use that innovation shouldn't be the primary goal it's

secondary does this mean that personal success should also not be the people's priority. i think it's a mistake i mean for something higher i want to live a life will be proud to have lived but on the other hand not everyone not everyone by their nature is a freedom fighter right you can you can want personal success and be a decent human being who knows i mean. i wasn't a freedom fighter until one thousand nine hundred eighty three or. and if you'd met me in one nine hundred seventy you would never have guessed that i had it in me and i wouldn't have thought i had it in me so anybody can surprise yourself can you ever see free software superseding or even replacing proprietary software i don't know it depends on you basically depends on when you have

a practical decision to make whether you say oh i'll use this proprietary program because it does something for me that i want to do today or will you say no i won't use it because the price is my freedom and that's too much to pay but all i'm asking is that if the free software is all that great and it's out there why do so few people use it partly because of social inertia you'll notice that most p.c.'s are sold with windows already in them well that's current flowing toward windows and most people let themselves be carried by this current schools are teaching people proprietary software whether it's from microsoft or apple doesn't matter it's they're both dead the point is that with so much current artificially generated. people have to swim against it if they want to get to freedom so not everybody is determined enough so we in the free software movement

we try to make it easier for people we try to change the current will we win who knows the point is let's do our best what your key project is the new project aimed at giving people complete freedom over their self where he launched it in one thousand nine hundred eighty four it thirty years down would you say it has been a success. partly lots of people use the good new operating system because good new is an operating system. and your computer no computer will do anything without an operating system in it in fact millions of people are using the new system but mostly they don't know it because they think it's linux linux is actually one essential component that's used in the system today so it's really good to plus linux so yes we achieved our initial goal and we've had a considerable success we haven't liberated everybody. kim

dotcom says he wants to encrypt hol of the internet can you give me or are you are some quick tips on how you can actually encrypt email protect myself on life where i would say we have free software for encrypt ing e-mail and other files and you shouldn't trust any encryption program on less it's free software and the encryption is being done by your copy on your computer encryption in a server is not trustworthy. katty you know they're not saving an ink a copy before they encrypt it and giving it to the n.s.a. so you've got to encrypt it in your machine our program for doing this is called the good new privacy guard or good new p.g.p. . i see you're wearing a little sign that says done by track pay cash do you always pay cash just about always i will use my credit card to buy airline tickets also you have an integrated

current system on identifying me anyway i don't lose anything by paying with a credit card then what do you make of the whole bitcoin concept. well because seems like a solution to some problems but it's not anonymous i think we need a payment system where it's a page is anonymous to pay the doesn't have to be anonymous but it has to be set up so you can pay to access a web page and do so anonymously but is there such thing as complete anonymity well there is a theory but i'm not saying we need total anonymity we need anonymity for the one who is paying to access the website however it's ok if the website operators are not anonymous and receiving this money after all we want them to pay their taxes dr

someone what would you say to people who in light of the recent events are saying privacy is debt that's it and everything else is an illusion internet freedom isn't there was being defeatist maybe they're suffering from a shock that's lead them to leading them to into despair but the fact is privacy has a better chance now then it has had for the past decade or so because now we have a lot of people who know that there's a problem and how big it is we need to establish sufficient proper privacy in our communications that a government official can talk to a journalist without being caught that's the amount of privacy that society absolutely needs if we want to keep control over what the government is doing dr riches someone thank you very much for those interesting insights that's it for

today you are with so thin could meet sophie shevardnadze i will see you next time thanks for watching us. wealthy british style. markets why not. come to find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's conjure for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines in two kinds

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a little. ok. i dave a crock it while going to ten and you're all of virginia it's a little island in the middle of the chesapeake bay and of virginia. lacka lacka down a. ramp a year all in the chesapeake bay probably one of the best areas in the country fred . this is the result that your attend your island before the channel was cut oh here. they are. as go all. right here are some of the headstones from the graves it for here this is a fruits that's what we don't want happen to taint your all and we want to get some protection and make sure that we don't go into the chesapeake bay like uppers did in other communities.

syria's president to reject what some finger pointing over the alleged chemical mess go outside damascus saying facts and not assumptions a should come first as you when weapons inspectors head to the side. planted at embassies and the e.u. offices and now even at the united nations headquarters so knew the league documents reveals another front in the n.s.a.'s spying asset. to yeah this is the fall of god you were reporting the government is to reverting to the colonel savage methods to crush dissent while the country slides into economic turmoil.