sort of helpless i could be pretty pessimistic myself about what a few individuals with no real money or power can really do against the system but you never dull in fact if you remember tour discussion about ammonia doused pink slime being used across america and frozen fast foods well shift jamie oliver has actually managed to shame mcdonald's enough on t.v. to get them to back down and stop using this ultra processed form of quote meat at their establishments also we recently discussed gamer rage at the rather racist portrayal of russians in the game company of heroes two well all the rage actually worked and thanks to the seventeen thousand signatures on the change dot org petition that game has been pulled from russian shelves by the developer the thing is that massive corporations do a lot of bad things because they have no morals and are obsessed with profit but because they have no morals and are only obsessed with profit the second you even slightly threaten their cash flow they will instantly start cowering at your feet sometimes but that's just my opinion.

to get. a little come to southie incredible i'm still not saying i save leaks have revealed their it's very little left of the ideal privacy felons are tapped the internet is tracked is there a way to slow it down to five or infer said or should we just face reality and accept the new world order. r i p.

rest in privacy the world is in mourning for innocence lost edward snowden's revelations confront the worst case scenario they know they've always new technology has made big brother even bigger. on this year and if it's a gadget snowball about you then your best friends or your most personal information is available at the touch of a button to big brother social networks have substituted rumors and not connections government's behind it all claiming you are protected how safe is your info how far should surveillance go is sacrificing privacy work claims of security. and our guest today is richard dr richard solomon software freedom activists and program and recently inducted into the internet hall of fame has joining us live

from brussels it's really great to have you with us today dr stallman thank you now we're not that you don't own a phone why is that. well i do have a phone but it's not a mobile phone the reason is mobile phones are surveillance and tracking devices the phone system is constantly finding out where the phone is and they generally keep a record of this for months or years and that information is available to big brother very easily and i consider that oppresses. but it's worse they can be remotely converted into listening devices because the software in the phone and even if it's not a smart phone it is a computer with software that can be changed remotely through what's called a back door which means it receives commands from somebody else to do something and

what it does backdoor can do is install software changes without asking the suppose it owner of the phone and this has been used to remotely convert them into listening devices the book murder in samarkand by craig murray describes one example of this oh so basically once it's converted it listens all the time and it transmits all the time and if you try to turn it off well it doesn't really turn off it pretends to be off and continues list sitting in transmitting and this is part of why but was loaded in a hole in the journalists who interviewed him to what is i think what are you using how do people get in touch with you oh well mostly through e-mail i also have a phone in my office course i'm not there and people can phone the free software foundation which will connect them with me one way or another. so people do reach

me if the n.s.a. wanted to track you down right now they wouldn't be able to trace you. not so easily. now i'm not trying to prevent an investigation of me i'm not against the ability of the state to investigate people when there's. some grounds for suspicion that they can take to a court and say please approve various kinds of searches of this person that needs to be done because we need a state to do a lot of things including catch criminals and prosecute them unfortunately the plutocratic states today they only want to catch the small criminals that the giant criminals they're too big to jail but we do need that and i don't want to make that impossible what i object to is making a dodge about everyone all the time because then if the state wants to get

somebody even for a bad reason the state can get tremendous amounts of data and can always find something to punish that person for so we should design our digital system so that they're not recording data about everybody all the time they should be able to start recording data about somebody when a court gives an order to investigate that person but they shouldn't make a giant da ca of months or years of information about everybody because that starts to remember that starts to resemble what secret police did and i guess in effect still do in lots of countries but you've been saying this for many many years i mean you've been talking about prison like programs like five ten years ago snowden made that point right right now and everyone's like aap in the air with it and like

going crazy as well because he proved. but what they say here here i would say away i don't know but listen to you when you are saying the sorry i'm very happy that snowden told us what the u.s. government and some other governments are really doing because i had no proof i've been saying for many years if we look at the pat riot act i won't call it patriotic because this is as unpatriotic as you can get in a country based on an idea of freedom i said look at this ali would guess that they are collecting all the data about every one regularly so that you know fast enough that none of it gets or raced between collections but that was just a guess so thanks to snowden we know that in some cases specifically phone calls the u.s. government is actually doing this and we know that there are other governments that do surveillance without even the flimsy limits of the u.s.

government so i am tremendously happy to see that snowden has called the public's attention to this injustice because our cause now has more momentum we might maybe be able to stop this so how far can a surveillance system with such political support and that is china can take as this be rolled back i don't know if you see this depends on you this depends on the people who are watching so i'm not interested in asking are we going to win can we win i'm interested in doing whatever i can to win our freedom is its stake and this is true for people all around the world i would guess that every country is increasing surveillance through digital technology to a level that is unprecedented in the world's history and unless we had

a true. great insufficiency of surveillance before we should regard this as intolerable we must start rejecting the so called internet services that demand to know all about us so don't use facebook for instance i can tell you something though i can't there are so many services that are important and we need to make sure that there that the surveillance that label of the little in general is limited but i really need to tell you something when this whole third rail and scheme was uncovered ok everyone was in shock i was disturbed like we're talking oh my god we can't believe we're being listened to and everything we do is being looked after but at the end of the day everyone is like ok so there's that they were can do about it we're being listened to and we'll continue using facebook we'll continue using those gadgets because you know what i think it was when i'm going and we run what people around me i'm just saying people have

a good bit but because people keep thinking well we're not doing anything wrong so what's wrong about being being looked after first of all this idea that if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide is ridiculous lots of people have things they want to hide from somebody you know some people for instance are gay and in certain countries they might get prosecuted for that so lots of people have but you know that you might think that you would do something that your boys wouldn't like if you knew like maybe you wouldn't like what party you vote for so lots of people have reasons not to want everybody to know everything about them with total surveillance though. the state knows everything and some companies know everything and they can tell whoever they want so if you want to have the possibility of some privacy some day you had better join the fight

now. because now a bunch of other people are joining the fight now is the moment where you could make a difference if you wait until the day you wish you had some privacy and then try to do something well that day you will be one of the few people doing it and that won't be enough you've got to join you've got to help make a critical may s. when other people were doing it and that's now but what if you end up like us science or snowden i mean we're looking at these guys and they're you know outcasts that are trapped and they're facing have well they're not outcasts no node songes not an outcast millions of people including me admire him and snowden is not an outcast millions of people in the u.s. and elsewhere at the narrow and limited in size please don't exaggerate they have been received by the empire but not defeated

but they're so limited in their life in in what they do. there they decided to take these risks for all our freedom but they can't win by themselves it's up to us to carry the fight forward. and in any case by the way snowden will find a way to get to asylum companies and the government how close are they like could there be one without the other who was driving the relationship there will it's there's no simple answer but they work hand in hand in the us thanks to the pat riot act all the data that companies collect about people they are required to turn over to the f.b.i. . without even a court order the f.b.i. just has to say we want this data we say it's relevant to something and then the

company has to turn it over secretly so any time a company is collecting data about you it's collecting the data for its own purposes but also for the state so we must consider that corporate surveillance of us is a part of state surveillance. of course they're both bad i don't want companies to have tremendous amounts of information about me either and i generally don't use the services that would give them that information you know you've said earlier don't use facebook talking about the social media i mean the platform people use to communicate with each other online i mean it's not all that bad right because i mean i wouldn't have yes it's horrible is a zebra is a monster a surveillance engine what's that one should i need this for a second i'll turn the heater take photos of me i say please don't put photos on

facebook in my speech at the beginning of my speeches i say if you take a photo of me please don't put it in facebook but what's an alternative for facebook or other social media sorry an alternative well are you are you demanding an alternative that's very similar to facebook because that's not my alternative my alternative to a nasty system is i just don't use it now i'm just a satellite from the premise i have to use one of those four things so even if they're all nasty i just have to i'm going to pick one while you're basically deciding to lose in advance so i don't use facebook and i don't want an alternative to facebook but face i used to say alliterative to fraserville to that i was using ten years ago i mean i know people who have been saved by it by a mere so what happens share button it's a good thing no so what people are connected throughout the world. or sorry people

can be connected in lots of ways but from what i've read by the way the book alone together is very interesting what people do in facebook is they construct they carefully construct a false picture of themselves and we don't take a short break but coming up next what's more important than success than a free necessarily popular stay. that's.

put it on your arm and watch andy. face i think i'm peter limone.

a pleasure to have you with us here on our t.v. today i'm really sushi. in cuba is not a failure of the cuban people it's a failure of sidel castro in a. league when the sun's. backed by the officials both hostility and suspicion encouraged by the government these operations against cuba were known to the attorney general of the united states to present a united states himself the defendants an intelligence arms had to infiltrate to resist. national agencies freedom fighters terrorists. who is who. the real terrorists are you stand up

on our cheek. right. first street. and i think you're. on our reporters. in. the in the. welcome back to the show our guest is softer freedom activist and gore dr richard stallman and we're talking about the big brother reality of the surveillance state so i gather save jobs and bill gates aren't exactly your heroes but give knowledge

sir contribution in bringing so many people together creating this global community when there were embraced and our church innovation a huge progress malicious technology can't be excused if it has some good effects now we've got to realize that first of all microsoft and apple software are propose. try it terry that means users don't control the program rather the program controls the users well that's an injustice and that's the existence of proprietary software although it wasn't for microsoft or apple back then is why i started the free software movement in addition to setting things up so that they control the program and the program controls the users then they started putting in malicious functionalities that spy on users intentionally restrict users and

there are even back doors in that software so literally speaking apple software and microsoft software are malware and windows eight point one we're calling windows prism edition because it's designed to require people to send data to microsoft's servers and of course microsoft will hand over any of that data to the us government on request so it puts the users in prison this is the nastiness that's the natural result of letting a company have control over the software that the users are running instead of the users themselves so no i wish they hadn't done anything although i realize somebody else might have done it if they hadn't that's no excuse for their doing it now can free software generate the same level of digital innovation that proprietary software has done. i don't know i think it's a secondary question i think freedom is more important than innovation and when you

look at a lot of the innovations that proprietary software generates they're harmful like the x. box one which has a camera that's designed to determine who is in the room how many people they are at least and whether they're looking at the x. box that's an innovation one that we shouldn't stand for of course the x. box is nasty in lots of ways before that but this is an example of how it's a mistake to make innovation our goal but do you feel like people have voluntarily traded their freedom for that jets and and form what partly yes but remember that companies are steering them by saying you can have this convenience but only if you let us be nasty to you in that way and yet people who are not sensitized to the issue they might say yes but there's no fundamental reason why this convenience has to require that nastiness it's that

a company figures maybe they can get you to accept that nastiness by attaching it to this convenience now if we had control over how things were built we could have this convenience in most cases without that nastiness sometimes it's difficult but mostly they're connected artificially now here's the point is we need more control over our technology and use that innovation shouldn't be the primary goal it's secondary does this mean that personal success should also not be the people's priority. i think it's a mistake or i'm aiming for something higher i want to live a life will be proud to have lived but on the other hand not everyone not everyone by their nature is a freedom fighter right you can you can want personal success and be a decent human being who knows i mean i wasn't a freedom fighter until one thousand nine hundred eighty three or. and if you'd

met me in one nine hundred seventy you would never have guessed that i had it in me and i wouldn't have thought i had it in me so anybody can surprise yourself can you ever see free software superseding or even replacing proprietary software i don't know it depends on you basically depends on when you have a practical decision to make whether you say oh i'll use this proprietary program because it does something for me that i want to do today or will you say no i won't use it because the price is my freedom and that's too much to pay but all i'm asking is that if the free software is all that great and it's out there why do so few people use it partly because of social inertia you'll notice that most p.c.'s are sold with windows already in them well that's current flowing toward windows

and most people let themselves be carried by this current schools are teaching people proprietary software whether it's from microsoft or apple doesn't matter it's they're both dead the point is that with so much current artificially generated. people have to swim against it if they want to get to freedom so not everybody is determined enough so we in the free software movement we try to make it easier for people we try to change the current will we win who knows the point is let's do our best what your key project is dick new project aimed at giving people complete freedom of earth their self where he launched it in one thousand nine hundred eighty four it thirty years down would you say it has been a success. partly lots of people use the good new operating system

because good new is an operating system. and your computer no computer will do anything without an operating system in it in fact millions of people who are using the new system but mostly they don't know it because they think it's linux linux is actually one essential component that's used in the system today so it's really good to plus linux so yes we achieved our initial goal and we've had a considerable success we haven't liberated everybody. came dot com says he wants to encrypt the internet can you give me or are you are some quick tips on how you can actually encrypt email protect myself on life gravity we have free software for encrypt ing e-mail and other files and you shouldn't trust any encryption program on less it's free software and the encryption is being done by your copy on your computer encryption in a server is not trustworthy. katty you know they're not saving up owning

a copy before they encrypt it and giving it to the n.s.a. so you've got to encrypt it in your machine our program for doing this is called the good new privacy guard or good new p g. i see you're wearing a little sign that says done by track pay cash do you always pay cash just about always i will use my credit card to buy airline tickets also you have integrated her insist on identifying me anyway i don't lose anything by paying with a credit card then what do you make of the whole bitcoin concept. well because seems like a solution to some problems but it's not anonymous i think we need a payment system where it's a paid your is anonymous the pay doesn't have to be anonymous but it has to be set

up so you couldn't pay to access a web page and do so anonymously but if there are such things as complete anonymity well there is a theory but i'm not saying we need total anonymity we need anonymity for the one who is paying to access the website however it's ok if the website operators are not anonymous and receiving this money after all we want them to pay their taxes dr someone what would you say to people who in light of the recent events are saying privacy is dad that's it and everything else is an illusion internet freedom isn't there was being defeatist maybe they're suffering from a shock that's lead them to leading them to into despair but the fact is privacy has a better chance now then it has had for the past decade or so because now we have a lot of people who know that there's

a problem and how big it is we need to establish sufficient proper privacy in our communications that a government official can talk to a journalist without being caught that's the amount of privacy that society absolutely needs if we want to keep control over what the government is doing dr richard solomon thank you very much for those interesting insights that's it for today you were with so vain could meet sophie shevardnadze i will see you next time thanks for watching us. please.

please. play. safe if you need to review the economic ups and downs in the final months day for the london deal sank i and the rest the life they meet casey will be every week on a plane. play .

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