it's nine pm here in moscow this is r.t. international tonight evidence of a chemical attack in syria is no proof the government was behind it says the u.n. envoy to the country is western powers ready for a strike. washington says it has enough evidence against assad and waves away comparisons with a rock we look at how the u.s. paved the way for previous military campaign it's. also coming up sectarian violence claims dozens more lives in iraq in a series of bomb attacks in baghdad we look at the ongoing price of the u.s. led liberation from saddam hussein. multiculturalism fails a stress test in the u.k. with an anti muslim lobby blocking the expansion of islam calling it violently

incompatible with today's britain. hello very good evening choose kevin and hear this the u.n. arab league envoy to syria lakhdar brahimi says there's evidence suggesting that some kind of chemical substance was used in an attack near damascus a week ago but there's no proof at this point that the assad government is responsible but such an assault in itself could be enough for the u.s. and its allies to launch a military offensive against the war torn country despite the u.n. and serious and inspectors need more time at the site now we've got a panel of experts here to talk about the developments surrounding syria evening guys will be coming she shortly but first let's catch up with lindsey france has been monitoring today's diplomatic maneuvers the been a few international meetings and consul to. today for is where the world stands as

we speak. yes i can certainly there is a lot that's gone on today and we've kept a very close eye on what is coming out of the mouths of leaders of this. possible possible actions taken in syria u.k.'s prime minister david cameron tweeted earlier reza resolution for action will be put forward at a meeting of the five permanent members of the security council later today in new york his foreign secretary william had also came out and said that the u.k. is totally clear on where the balance lies on the assad regime and that the u.n. inspectors are there to investigate scientifically what took place on the ground not to assign the blame and that is when a journalist asked well why not wait for more days for those inspectors to complete the research they're doing there on the ground and then of course admit that to the u.n. and you say because he said because it's very important to respond quickly so people

don't confuse what the response is for at the white house spokesman jay carney also stated to journalists there that the obama administration has not deciding who is responsible for this that decision has been made what the obama administration is deciding what the response will be and when now do you when our secretary general ban ki-moon spoke also today and he made an argument on the other side let's listen to what he had to say about this. we must approach every new years to get the product to the table you chance. you promise she what chance. are you doing and. start talking. now as the syrian ambassador to the united nations made some some other observations such as this is bashar jafari saying that there is sufficient evidence

that rebels may have staged a chemical attack and this is based on other instances where where he says they were in possession of chemical weapons and that some attacks have been carried out he wants to look at that and then of course russia's foreign minister sergei lavrov saying that any sort of a military intervention in this will take a regional conflict and just blow it wide open and create an even bigger problem and at this point the most important thing to do is let the inspectors finish their work put it before the united nations and see and see what the five permanent members think at that point but making any sort of military maneuvers at this point is just asking for more trouble so that's really sort of a rundown of at this point what some of the the major decision makers in this in this situation are saying ok lizzie from summing up today's world diplomacy

regarding syria from central moscow well as i mentioned at the start of the program we've got a public guess we've put together to try and kick this around to see where it will go over the coming hours and days marcuse papadopoulos is a middle east commentator an editor of politics first provolone driv with me executive director of the club variation a discussion group of leading experts across many fields we also go to. as well he's editor of the political blog liberal conspiracy and. our senior political correspondent guys thank you all for your time so before you come to you first of all if i may. be a consensus around the world that the assad regime needs to pay for the alleged chemical weapon attack here but this is at the same time as the u.n. is still investigating are we going to see before the people before the universe to go to actually reported for hard concrete facts. no i don't think that will happen i think there's

a lot of pressure on president obama and certainly in the u.k. on prime minister cameron to show for evidence you know before they take any action today the labor party says they're not going to support any intervention in terms of the u.k. unless the prime minister comes to the house of parliament with evidence so there's going to be i think that even the coalition which is looking to do something more recently the coalition of western nations is restore splintering unless of course they wait to show the evidence and they go properly. to be for the taking action probably with some evidence other things can happen before the markets you're in london a year is optimistic everyone is going to hang fire until the facts are not. what can i just say i think the question that actually should be asked to people at the moment in britain is is it acceptable for america and its allies to be deciding

which country is liable to be attacked in the world and which country isn't liable to be attacked the world america and its allies are not the police are not the policeman of the world that's completely unacceptable america has no roy legal or moral right to attack independent sovereign country this should be the focus of discussions regarding syria we saw this in bosnia we saw this in kosovo we saw this in iraq we saw this in libya we seen it again in syria it's a lie after lie to achieve jiri strategic objectives havilland dreams history repeating itself here all it does indeed look as a pattern which has been explored quite a number of times over the past decade having said previously you could see some strategy marcus was told talking about just a teacher came i can hardly see any just if you came to such. there is the reason they were the tactics there is some kind of

a just rushing from one from one region to another from one aim to another and let's not forget that the people who are now in the in the driving seat in washington are very different from those who were in two thousand and three for example. you can see a noble prize peace prize laureate barack obama who should be he would have been stripped of should have been stripped of his nobel prize if he if he declared this war. it's john kerry who was very much of an opponent of george bush's. position and policy on invading iraq so maybe these people do have some more reality which is essential to overturn this pattern and really seek the due diligence process in the in the verifying the c.w. . can you get across to the where do you think this is going where is that information we heard yesterday that. this proof. was behind

the chemical attack still not come to surface yet as far as we know is it i'm quite pessimistic i have to disagree with you first of all i think the united states could very well go it maybe not alone but certainly without the u.n. security council i mean we've seen that before it's surprise to me that anybody would debate that the u.s. but go ahead and it doesn't hide that it doesn't hold very much value for the decisions that are made in new york at the u.n. with that said the questions being asked and debates that are happening are not the debates that marcus was talking about does the united states or anyone else have the right to intervene when we haven't seen that evidence and we are still hearing very strong rhetoric out of the u.k. william hague just today speaking about how the u.n. investigation taking place is scientific basically implying let them do their work but we have our work and it seems very obvious to me at least that they have made some kind of decision. just to. international laws being broken. because it

will come to i mean he's justified it has many boys saying international laws been broken so therefore there's no problem going ahead. without a consensus is not really the way forward need to to rights make a wrong as you see it. well i think we should be clear about something syria is already a mess because russia iran and. hezbollah are defending assad and trying to keep him in place and have been supplying weapons to him to keep him there saudi arabia and qatar and turkey have lined up against him and are funding the rebel armies against him so this idea that the united states and the u.k. are now suddenly intervening in other countries is ludicrous i mean it doesn't. stand up to scrutiny because syria is already a battlefield to decide what's going on in terms of the future of the middle going

to drawing closer. to right exactly so there are already several countries taking part in what's going on over there the united states and the u.k. are intervening at a specific point which is about the usage of chemical weapons and also the end they're going to give and i'm going to have very minimal danny right no no they are all going to be with there is going to be demands from our roots i don't really want to go there now you know you have let your market labor party pre-market so it we're going to see if in the finish your point of marcos of course covering. yes kevin i think it's very important to make this clear to domestic audiences in the west because they don't hear this from the mainstream media they don't hear this from their politicians the american west stance on syria is not guided by human rights democracy or the rule of law it's got no one said it was serious issues because syria has shoes an independence foreign policy it has

a close relationship with russia and iran that's why it's been targeted if the west stance is all about democracy human rights and the rule of law then why isn't why is there not a an american naval flotilla off the coast of saudi arabia so to arabia has arguably the most wicked regime in the world where homosexuality is punishable by death apostasy is punishable by death adultery for women is a punishable by death and saudi arabia is the root of islamic extremism and terrorism is a very involved nine eleven the london bombings the madrid bombings the bali bombings all go back to saudi arabia it is preposterous nonsense to say that the west stance on syria is guided by a notion of don't question me or simply. can i just respond can i just point out that the intervention in syria is not about human rights and actually it was a humanitarian intervention than there would have been two years ago since one hundred thousand people syrians have died in the hands of

a side since so firstly it's not a humanitarian intervention their aim is to take revenge on for the use of chemical weapons and to send out a signal that any government uses chemical weapons on its own people is going to face some international i'd like what you're doing is they like to bring up the other well just briefly they're going to launch so you've got. finish point finish your point quickly. my point is briefly that they're only going to launch a few attacks on military targets in syria and it's not going to be a ground intervention it's not going to be a humanitarian sitting to poland suffering from jet it is against an independent sovereign country against an independent suffering country ok in the long term i was there really should not be running around depending on a different kind of tire and saudi arabia to not take it to not also intervene i mean there are lots of countries already that only radio russian armed iran or about the low note idea maybe are ok because you had your way tickets are hardly conform to your legal principles that you believe in in life ok mark as well as

also tell us what you thought the lab was going to say heartily on saudi arabia and qatar what's russia's position your view this is ok guys thanks what's russia's opposition here what's russia's position here if there was an intervention if it does happen what would russia do and moreover what if in the next forty eight hours or so this proof that has been talked about that america has been declassified that we're hearing is going to make public what if it does come out what's russia going to do then. well it's really it's really hard to tell rush is definitely not going to war use its nuclear deterrence to change to change the situation what is important to stress here is that syria is indeed a mess but it is a mess to a large degree due to the outside influence from from outside forces in syria so basically when when somebody argues that now. the intervention should have been

employed two years ago well it shouldn't have and shouldn't be considered now at the point when the program forces are actually gaining ground and there is much more much more road paved to political transition if you're talking about the russian position the russian position has always been about the political transition it was not about assad per se it was about political transition and the it was the rebel forces. who are not feeling themselves in a position to participate in that kind of talks. one might argue that it is because a lot of the driving force behind the rebel force is over rather radical radical thinking to put it to put to put it mildly and they would not get support and would not get to the ruling positions in the country through the political transitions now the only way if you are talking about the way to to settlement in syria is true surely not one of those forced forceful scenarios but in geneva to proceed let me just go back to the point if information comes out here in america says it's got

this. information proves that the assad regime was behind it if it is released tomorrow how would russia change. it would listen it would take that information and act accordingly here it should be it should be discussed in the security council one will be skeptical about security council resolution on that but the the it is either security council or might or might might is right principle really important seesmic or interim. discuss so much the what ifs but we have and we have no proof so it's it's surprising to me that funny and most of the mainstream media can report and talk about this and discuss the situation in syria as if it's already been proven this is fact and there are basically a lot of the press is copying and pasting these statements that we're hearing from very high ranking officials in the west like i said we heard from william hague

u.k. foreign secretary saying that they do believe this is a chemical attack by the us and regime u.s. vice president joe biden there is no doubt who is responsible for this heinous use of chemical weapons in syria chuck hagel u.s. defense secretary i think that intelligence will i think that intelligence will conclude that the government is syria was responsible are we going to see this evidence or are we going to see it after the fact. stands in the security council showed some years ago seeing the evidence doesn't well of course one of the big proponents to go along with it william hague for of minutes he's taken a lot of this from the start he was quick to react was kind of criticism that there were similarities in the buildup to the war in iraq we got a clip of him talking about that let's take a quick listen. this is a very different situation from anything that happened over iraq i think we have to be clear about this regime acknowledges it has chemical weapons but all previous instances over the last year when we believe it's used chemical weapons there is no

plausible alternative explanation for this the have used chemical weapons it is a quite different situation from iraq an entirely different situation government is going about it in an entirely different so there is no comparison between this and iraq of this crime against humanity has been committed. no argument about marcus papadopoulos no similarities at all. oh i think there are similarities let's have a look at the track record over the last twenty years of the west in the wars it's fought in in kosovo the west claimed one hundred thousand kosovo no paintings have been murdered by the serbs live iraq weapons of mass destruction lie libya tens of thousands of civilians slaughtered by colonel gadhafi forces allied and now we've syria what we've been what the western public has learned subject to to over the last two years over the last two years i hear in the stories that the syrian

government and the syrian armed forces the only legitimate groups in syria and slaughtering women women men and children that's completely under corroborated it's all about machinery geostrategic objectively the ambition is to simply not sure like western political dominance in the middle east syria syria this is the one hundred million in this country which will not which will not bow to the west syria will not bow to the west that's why it's been said it is syria they can as soon as it's required now one big round will be next it's not ridiculous it's not worth it unless you you and the way this is completely ridiculous let me just say let me get a word in edgeways please it's time to get a word on injuries legitimately look here it's time to protest i think it's important to point out that libya i think that emerging markets you have made your point let's certainly have its work police. yes thank you i think anyone can in

fact there are lots of videos which have been uploaded by syrian doctors as well as it hospitals there was a video published by i.t.v. news the other day which showed clear examples of kids talking while they were suffering from an attack of a chemical weapon i mean this idea you had that your this gentleman is saying that there's not this is a lie about that one of these there is a clear litmus now we have been your evidence which is we publish to you tube and it's all for the best and it probably was very said in the new york times but there had are you can't let me just finish my point please let me say that i try to saw the video has been oh did i miss your point media your blogs are showing across the basin here mr howard why are you. ok look we've only got a couple of seeing pictures of independent cheer that is what is reality it's pictures that sees only a train coming and going to start citing opposition stop citing opposition activists we need for cloak less i'd like to fly you where you can hear initially

paving have the it has no business life can't see it right here video surveiled you're not enough evidence you are exactly right guys we've only got a couple no you're right that we've only got a short about a time left i don't want to argue. i want to ask you but the final you know shut up for one second so i can get a word in i just want to make my point about chemical weapons and you can spuriously the nonsense about the syrian government he wants to this is the fact of the matter is that we have seen proper video evidence and we have seen photographic evidence of children on the aftereffects of chemical weapon attacks there have been lots of videos posted about showing sarin and the effects of sorry now the point because the key question here is not whether the chemical weapons have been used the key question here is who used them and that's the thing that the u.n. inspectors are we are still throwing doubt in terms of where was that sorry we still don't know this one final thought. because we also don't know for you out in your second ago you were. denying that there are. those who know you know me know

i'm going to have to try to as i will also i'll cut you off in london in the final minute of this program but i want to ask you in london to turn in the guides please i want to ask you the final minute of the program what the implications would be of an intervention i.e. you talking earlier on but the thought is this could be a short sharp intervention of rap over the knuckles how do we know that how do the people planning this how they got a clear plan all the absolutely sure this won't go on will become another afghanistan will become another iraq and how do we know it won't spread with a ready heard we've already heard. that it. could be targeting israel if this happens how do we know it's going to be so i mean let's let's be clear a few points there are no government troops of the british government of the united states government which are going to be landing in syria at all not even close to the point is they're going to take a few well aimed shot at syrian weapons and that's about it they don't want to

remove more than that and they have to says you know i really was so they're not can i just make my point police you will get your turn the point is that they are going to focus on very sure they have said themselves that we're not going to put in ground troops in syria and and the government in the u.k. will not support any such action because the government the statement by the by the prime minister as well as the labor party will say we want to limit the action necessary so let me just be clear this is not going to be like afghanistan and iraq because first it is not to be in the western troops secondly this is going to go on for a while because assad is being supported by various countries including iran and russia and his opposition is being supported by various countries like saudi arabia and qatar so that proxy war will continue for a while that regardless of where they know this and their family in the chaos there are going to be when these are big differences with iraq mark was only fifteen seconds for you in response please. you know kevin the sad and regrettable thing is

this people like sunny and the attitudes here sprouse they forget one thing we're talking about the syrian people they've had to read your hell on earth over the last two years and the way that sonny and western politicians and journalists talk about attacking our country so flippantly is so distressing can you imagine what it must be like to be bombarded with the one who said we were his home the whole point is mr is it because i'm a very don't you talk to people that experience the blitz in london why don't you talk to people why don't leave talk about the how do. you know how rarely it's all tied and you talk in the same area and hours that you have every day i thought ok go without thinking you have very little time for the for the last final thought the last final four or five hours or make it public from the russian wakes up lights and we're going to run out we've got to work we've got to get to a break so could you imagine what could you imagine what the response would be if russia was talking openly about attacking another country there would be up for in

the world why is it. going to talk about attacking another country guys are going to be the final four to powerful another member of our panel i'm sitting here patiently how is this going to pan a during the week or so. it's really hard to put out a timetable because the window of opportunity for were actual bombing is very short and what i wanted to finish with is the really g. twenty and it's better not to have been on the g. twenty a week short. what i would like to stress here is that there is no good you know when wins the bombing campaign it's either would lead to nothing as it did in one thousand nine hundred nineteen ninety eight with bombing of somalia or it would lead to further deterioration and dilatation of didn't do a station of the country of syria or the nation and split and complete complete change of the balance which has been achieved first in iraq and now it is being for the determinative in the. and in the region. it's really when mark marcus is

talking about geopolitical geopolitical strategy i don't see it it's going to strategy is in complete shambles there is no foreign policy objectives here it just your senses or steer it is to some reactions really all right purple things your time public the executive director of the club also marcus papadopoulos and so the hotel thank you both guys as well for your input most interesting and of course on this and as well nice to see in the studio as well i hope you've enjoyed it too because of the program to get to in a second it's no word twenty six minutes past nine and you can stay with us on back with more news in just over the next hour from the break we continue with the true story of cubans spying and intrigue in miami so our next program.

to build a. mission to teach me. from the fall. are again agitating for conflict in the middle east. again it's all about weapons of mass destruction. only makes things worse. mission. cretaceous free. free. free. free. free. free blog. a freebie.

but i was sleeping it was around six am. but what i remember hearing like someone breaking the law. although you know i was surrounded by people with machine guns helmets stuff you see in movies. they examined my mouth seemed to many james bond movies i thought i had signed up there. they told me i was under arrest i asked for a while they said you know. cubans busted here in the united states spying for fidel are they terrorists or freedom fighters.

do you know the cubans i. went to those guys that did play to us in the semifinals of the pan american games in the basketball tournament the five cuban five were defending their country against terrorists the other cuban five other that's also been americans you know i haven't ever heard about the cuban five there that rock band right. i mean you know to cuban five. would you want to find out ok. ok the police are looking for you to deal with the terrorist groups in miami's of exiles with people planning attacks on the cuban people and foreign citizens inside cuba the cuban five every right to defend the cuban revolution the cuban revolution before my time.