hello and welcome to crossfire all things are considered i'm peter lavelle setting the middle east further ablaze with little or even no hard evidence surrounding the alleged use of chemical weapons in syria the obama administration appears determined to enter this conflict with no clear purpose or aim obama says the arc of the moral universe may bend towards justice but it does not bend on its own is

american intervention in syria really a bend towards justice. to cross not the war in syria i'm joined by pepe escobar in hong kong he's an investigative journalist and author and we also have stephen sless and you're in new york he is a senior fellow at the century foundation and author of the book act of creation or a gentleman crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and go to hong kong for us poppy is this all about justice well mr obama is looking for justice and threatening to bomb syria no it's about president of united states of america and mash in his own web because he was reckless enough to be clear red line without sinking about the consequences and we're not talking about pulau or some island in the middle of the pacific who talk about the middle east so now he's backed into a. he doesn't know what to do he's clueless my best sources and stephen maybe you

can confirm that in new york and in wall street they tell me he's completely clueless he's surrounded by a bunch an absolute idiots some months i got the power in the u.n. which by the way she was absolutely enraged because the russian and the chinese ambassador walked out of the p five meeting when they were discussing the british resolution to start a war against syria valerie jarrett susan rice absolute made the artist he doesn't have a clue he doesn't know what to do so now he's trying to even try to wiggle out and find an exit strategy that does not include he is a humanitarian so mohawk war look this is tragic comedy more tragic than comedy ok so even that was a real mouthful there and would you agree or disagree with what we heard from hong kong that samantha's got the followers say. i do know that

samantha power is actually a very intelligent individual and i think she will be a classy diplomat at the u.n. but i all and i am a big fan of president obama's but i think he's made it made a grave error in this in this respect i agree with that he should never of promise this so-called red line a year ago but i will say that you don't american president has the right to change his mind and in the one year since he made that. a lot of things to change in the middle east the middle east is in total chaos at this point egypt is and is in the state of collapse levanon is riven by factions there are. huge refugee flows into turkey lebanon and jordan for five hundred thousand each case iraq is racked by civil war so the circumstances in the

past year have changed significantly significantly and i feel at the present the united states can say you know i did say that ok let's do you mean but stephen no longer stephen but he's not saying that that's important here he's not saying that . i agree he's not saying that so therefore we have to deal with the reality now the reality is that he has suggested that the only way we can deal with the chemical attacks so-called from. this from from the assad regime is. missiles missile attacks but he is not suggesting that maybe that we could strengthen our sanctions on syria or maybe send more weapons to the rebels i mean there are alternatives to a missile attack ok pepe i mean i heard you say alleged i said it is well you can react to what stephen said go ahead look. stephen is stephen is right that there are alternatives the alternative would let the u.n.

inspectors do their work i'll give you an example the russians spent three months old the ground interviewing people collecting samples to establish a nice eighty page report that they presented last month at the united nations anybody can go to the internet and find a best of their vitaly churkin at the u.n. explaining to the press what they were doing so the you went to you know the winning spector's nowadays they had what three and a half days it's absolutely impossible they haven't talked to anybody we have this absolutely bogus photo right there is or be we have to inspectors with two vials calling paul style and you have a guy smoking behind them this is completely absurd what what kind of you know when an inspector has that go to the math and find a photo now everybody it's completely absurd they need a months to do it properly and we have

a window of opportunity because brezhnev of the united states has to fly to sweden next tuesday and next thursday night and next week he has to face the g twenty has to face the leaders of brazil india. shy now where is the torrijos are going all over the place saying this is the rock two point zero and not to mention the flag himself in person so no wonder our friend obama is absolutely desperate ok stephen you want to jump in there go ahead i will say one other thing and i should have mentioned this before you know the other thing obama could do is press for the geneva meeting which had been promised between the russians and the americans to talk about a political settlement in syria now that seems to be postponed at this point but why not revive it and why not suddenly focus on the and that is what i'm just even i'm you know i agree with you out of an outrage i agree with you it's because the americans have been pushing this back back in further and further it's their fault

this process the process hasn't worked and not the russians fault the russians bad over backwards to get this started in the american almost no interest whatsoever how do you reply about. yeah i mean i think that i'm not going to let the russians off the hook they've been sending weapons to. the assad regime for years and they have not shown any willingness to relinquish perfectly legal to perfectly legal to a sovereign state for years or years even near a legal contract these are legal but i wanted to just like america i want to experience out of. go ahead steven jump in go ahead steven finish your point they wanted a political settlement they might at least relinquish that calm down about the issue of the contract and say listen we're going to cut back some of your supplies mr assad so you can get we have only to be kind of hard to do that when

the rebels say they are in the rebels are getting arms at the same time pepe jump in. it's and that this is not how the real world works sorry gentlemen this is how the real world works but the are bush this is all you need to know when he became the director of national intelligence appointed by king abdullah when the arbitron all only convinced the americas to drop catherine completely the finishing off bush literally caught there is a three hundred people in a t.v. station and i think his exaggerate them because there is actually five people in a t.v. station and that's it it's not a country it's a joke saudi arabia is another story and burned our bush lets you know a quick recap to any true years of there in washington he knows every player in the book in the us in europe in the middle east and in asia he was that goal to guy in the afghan jihad as in the nine hundred eighty s.

he did the afghan jihad in a ninety eight so this is the real player and now he is in charge of syria so we have to deal with what been there once which is not what the obama administration wants and it's not what israel wants to have triggered different agenda virgine in syria the fact bunda are in these rallies i was writing for you know who the obama administration to fight a war for them ok there are right now not even a national unity paratime syria let's go to steven steven jump in go ahead. i mean you know one of the many consequences of a missile attack on by vision us on on syria may be an attack by the syrians and iranians on israel i mean speaking of you know an unintended consequence of going to happen and frankly that's something that i don't feel that this administration has really figured out the other thing i might mention is that

a republican who i don't necessarily ever agree with on most issues the speaker of the house john boehner has actually sent a letter to obama asking him fourteen questions about exactly what his strategy is if we we bomb syria i mean including the question of what happens if a missile attack occurs and it doesn't change anything and you know assad continues to do what he wants to do you're going to then have people in this country demanding well if that didn't work we're going to you know increase our price we're going to put troops in there we've got to do all sorts of other things which would be absolutely a disaster would be another iraq another afghanistan and on the other con on the contrary if it doesn't work if the missile attacks do have the impact today who do they impound seeing or at least doing time in aiding a lot of the use of the any weaponry then they're going to say well hell if if if they're if the syrian regime is tottering at this point let's continue let's

complete the the attack and wipe it out so either way it seems to me the u.s. is is dragging itself into a ma into a quagmire which it's not going to be able to skate from ok pepe but i don't see the united states is dragging itself anywhere it's pushing hard. no no i do not understand is being dragged the one that we have to go back to the you know the basics it's israel and bun that are bush they are dragging us toward the school clean clean absolute terms of us interest security national credibility you name it in the middle east and all over the world you know that mimi coalition of the willing is a bloody joke it's the brits the french turkey qatar saudi arabia united arab emirates and the us do you call this international community it's a bloody joke and you know it's an a when we talk about to the dumb and dumb but

remakes of the psych speak called nine hundred seventeen agreement now represented by william hague in london a lot of abuse in paris it's even worse it degenerate seem to self-parody in fact it's ridiculous it's totally ridiculous. coming but i will very important right gentlemen it is a good job and here we are going to have short break we have to go to a short break and after that for a break we'll continue our discussion on syria state what are. these. wealthy british scientists are saying it's not on the title of.

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welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the civil war in syria. ok stephen if i go back to you in new york the united states and the u.k. say they can attack syria without a united nations security council mandate how is that possible it's beyond international law they say they can do it under humanitarian grounds so what are the two meet i understand that they've come up with various rationales for the attack humanitarian grounds is one of them active defense is another because under . fifty one of the un charter states are allowed to defend themselves against attacks but it's stretchy and in both cases it's stretching these terms in

a way that will twist them yeah but i mean i sort of i suppose syria and syria could invoke that one. anybody could invoke those things and the point is it's not just the u.n. is not supporting this you don't have the arab league their belief has refused to endorse any kind of military action nato for that exam for that for that purpose it has not issued any statement in support of this you don't even have the in the american polling data there's very little support among the american citizenry for any attack on syria i don't quite understand. thinks he has really solid grounds for this outside of the fact that he feels he has to you know validate his red line that you know he essentially is just amazing thing somebody has to do something somebody has to do something that's what it gets down to pepe go ahead because obama's credibility is on the line right now and he's looking like

a complete buffoon foreign policy wise. his credibility is already gone come a look at the n.s.a. scandal and by the way have you heard anything about the n.s.a. scandal this best week or so of course not it's in terms of wag the dog you know deviate. the problem is not the v.a. the v.a. attention from the obama shortcoming himself you know he doesn't know what to do he walks himself in and he blocks he scanned through his foreign policy in what kind of a lead there are all of the free world is this it's ridiculous and as a constitutional lawyer he's trying to find a way out to dribble not only the congress ok nobody cares about us congress or the five percent approval rate maybe dribble the u.n. dribble of nato dribble international law and outback unilaterally under the cover of a humanitarian the valerie jarrett's assignment i got the power r two p.

scheme this is ridiculous steven what it is and i think that i think they are being a little unfair i i think the fact is that. president obama has shown restraint for the last couple of years he has not gone into syria this is what troubles me so much he's been very good in the sense of keeping america out of that minefield and he's actually any american president frankly who had to deal with the crave the series of crises in our peoples you know when it will even solve the crisis in the humanity over the crises that you see at the beginning of the programs keep us out of crises and all of those crying very easily much more. even all of the crises you mentioned are driven or a result of american foreign policy so we should thank obama for not using more violence. you you mentioned all of them in the beginning i think i listen i think it's a great attribute that people think that everything in this world is driven by american

foreign policy i wouldn't say that that would be true if you look at the if what happens internally is in and afghanistan iraq has proven to be irrelevant to american foreign policy in fact it's so relevant that the americans have had to withdraw from both countries because they no longer have any control of what's how they broke both so i think you exaggerate the impact on that on a not on the way go ahead wait i had no no no no way to have a plan b. come on spare time pepe jump in. no no no no wait they didn't know with all i know because i've been there in both places extensively they were defeated by a bunch of students which have been defeating serialist four. floors of the five centers than centuries old have and they were defeated by a bunch of power i had seen omar province with. i don't these people i talk to them and they won't bullshit wars this is what happened with the american empire to live

with it. it's even the well i think the book but in both cases it shows the limit of american power i mean the fact is that you can blame the us for every crisis that goes on in this on this planet but when you really look at the factual zz on the ground you see that very little can be accomplished by u.s. military power the best thing that the americans can do is diplomatic power in fact one of the real unintended consequences of an american missile strike in syria will be the fact that the us will never be able to start real negotiations with the iranians which are real but a bug a boo and under this new arabian president who seems fairly moderate and seems to be reaching out to the west so i think we should attempt to start real negotiations but these could be totally undermined it seems to me if we attack syria ok pepe is

it a done deal that in a tackle him i had can't imagine stephen peter and i had believed to be bitter can i agree with stephen yes i don't really like it but go ahead question go ahead go ahead. no i am a i'll agree with this point to that diplomacy is the only way out this is what the russians have been saying for two and a half years and said again after all has been saying this every week the americans are bombing our negotiations when a kerry and lavrov got into an agreement of how to. organize geneva two which by the way has been postponed since june it's never going to happen geneva two and boom there are bush himself told putting geneva two is not going to happen because the opposition they want assad out now so the only possibility is the geneva two roadmap everybody together the same table including regional players and the

big powers outside. roadmap from that show you know of any kind being done notably our i saw you so i agree with you. if you pappy but no one will give a chair to the iranians right exactly how clearly they said something that has. figured into i know it's ridiculous question ok steve and i go ahead stephen go ahead but i think it has to do i think that obviously the iranians have to be part of any eventual settlement you know repeat people forget that even under george w. bush the iranians were involved in setting up the afghan government in two thousand and one two thousand and two because they had intelligence they want to do and they're going to see if there's a wi-fi and so we have dealt with the iranians before in political settlements and there's no reason we can't do it again in the end and a lot of the let down i ask you for sanctions the last group to have some anger shouldn't it it's ridiculousness it's ridiculous policy the u.s.

has towards iran ok pepe is this all is syria really all about iran because that's what a lot of people say. no no it's not only about the run it is the road to the mosque was a first for all to the mosque has and then a role to run there's no question but it's also trying to syria as the sort of middle man or the passage between iran and hezbollah in terms of the sunni shiite conflict in terms of bum dire bush spur specter in fact if we. take over syria let's put it this way like a hardcore sunni government allied with saudi arabia iran is isolated from the arab world and the later as well from the point of view of israel if the series out of the picture and it's one of them in a power one of us in power in fact as well i stoped it isolated and then we can try to invade lebanon again just like they did in two thousand and six i was there for

towards it was a total disaster so did the edge and as i said before they're completely different the problem is for the obama administration what is the big agenda try to find a deal with their own. this is the most important issue and i would agree with that because the interest in the long run that you and i seem to drag the cold verge ok but stephen it's not going to happen is it it's not going to happen and if it does how could it happen still going to happen if it would it would happen if we didn't fact pull back on our threats against syria or at least come up with alternatives to a missile strike there's no question in my mind that this idea that the that the only way we can deal with syria today is see you know use cruise missiles to take out certain military depots within that country i just think that one of the reasons why obama said last night on public television that no decision has been

made yet is he starting to feel the pressure the fact that he hasn't got a new endorsement the nato won't won't back come up that the arab league won't won't endorse what he wants to do maybe maybe i'm just saying this because he claims to not have made the decision yet he is looking for an alternative i certainly would hope so because he still has time to reverse any drastic decision towards these attacks and why not take advantage of the space why not take advantage of the fact that the republicans in congress under the majority will cave but they don't pay me and if i can get them happy what happens to the red line. behrendt exactly and now what we need we need a psychological analysis of this whole thing and also cultural it's you know putting your member on the table and say my member is bigger than yours this is what obama said with a red line and now he has to prove it public very sorry to say that but this is how

it works if we if we look at that in the arab world as more or less the same saying asia is the equivalent of not to losing face so from a chinese point of view obama me he simply cannot afford to lose face because he already said he was going to do it and now he has to do it even if it's one one point five million cruise missile against i don't know. a carpet store you know in the a little bizarre but he has to do something ok will his fall ok all about the point gentlemen thank you very interesting analysis that of peppino and i thank my guests today in hong kong and in new york and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. you next time and remember. these .

the bible says many times that go it is the father of all folks. i'm sure he called me to say if these children. and those i astray truly all finish that you know in times he just close i fell nobody needed me. by philip. pasta. my dad is probably the kindest soul in the world. he can't abandon the child he knows that they wouldn't survive sylviane jurors to the end any wiser from a dream can be. q what's russia and the world was no wolf and we've i want

any children to wake up in orphanages firmly believes that the parents out there every child space my goals. and they were ready to do anything for their country to me is to love the country more than yourself if you join the military for any other reason that you're probably not to have a good day they were tools in the hands of the state now they live remembering the past which is impossible to get rid of. the war. but i'll ever good people to get hurt. hurt good people empty silent. a lot. but would prefer not to be sometimes i feel like.

i should have died over there are. those. i saw some people who died. there is cheaper than terrifying. on our. wealthy british scientists. tirelessly.

to market. to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with. no holds barred global financial headlines. is a report. from. the uk. i. write to see. first street. and i think the true. reformers twitter. and instagram.

could be in the cold. on. the ice to the right two hundred seventy to the nose to the let two hundred eighty five. the british government's a war cry is a sign says paul amend rejects prime minister david cameron's call for military intervention in syria. president obama struggling to get international support for his plan to launch limited military strikes against a massive. use of chemical weapons. also emergency crews in russia's fall is what wrong the clogged trying to keep floodwaters. as the worst abuse in a century takes a heavy toll on infrastructure.