as opposed to about the athletes and then also doesn't that mean that western activists should be protesting the. world cup. for them but we really have run a time great to get all to go for thank you very much indeed. thank you martin andrews and peter tatchell really appreciate your time as well live in london thanks so much for joining in this debate. r.t. live in london. and in just a moment ago the world of business economics and finance on the money is coming your way after a short break and then more developments from syria concerning the u.s. in about half an hour from now. so the historic and for many americans tragic ruling in a bradley manning case just got

a lot weirder because he has declared that he wants to live the rest of his life as a woman named chelsea well i'm glad his lawyer got him to keep this revelation to himself until the end of the trial but sadly he really should have pushed for him to keep quiet about this just a bit longer why us because if there is one thing i know about the mainstream media is that the second sex is involved everything else instantly becomes a distant second case in point what is the legacy of bill clinton is that the job murderer who are sure to nafta no is it a violent foreign policy throughout the world somewhat similar to bush's and obama's in locations like haiti somalia in the balkans etc no his legacy is based on the least important sin he committed as a president cheating on his wife for the years couldn't wasn't office the lewinsky scandal just smothered everything else i am pretty sure that if i know the mainstream media they are going to use manning as gender confusion to overshadow and drown out everything else involved in the case but that's just my opinion.

hello and welcome to on the money with the business of russia is business i'm peter lavelle this month we were at the same petersburg international economic forum holding a panel discussion on the crisis of capitalism our panel included academics c.e.o.'s and opinion makers ronnie. goldberg she is the executive vice president and senior policy officer at u.s.c. i would be all go ahead she's deputy prime minister of the russian federation. he is secretary general of the o.e.c.d. flatter me he is rector of the russian presidential academy of national economy and public administration your last he is chairman of the management board of the investment banking division of barclays arman sign here frozen out of the eurasia

house international and we also had andy shea an independent economist. and let me go to you first. do we have capitalism today well i think. we have extreme capital as in capital. of the world people rich people can move around and that is a capitalism well i think capitalism in. capital is movable and looking for opportunities and i think that how we do it if one capital isn't traditional economic theater we see it's competitive markets and our capital is competitive markets to that extent i think of the systems being subverted it because. on the one side is the government intervention we see the rise of state capitalism everywhere on the other story or people would say corporate capitalism you know.

the other side we have a. capitalism in there that's sort of relationship based. then we have a financial capital as and with speculation musical now i think of these three forces. really and the minute the the the the world of market economy. get hung up about names capitalism sounds like. it's not about that it's about. market based economies rules breezed economies this is what we're talking about and the reason why some are doing better than others is because they played their cards better because they got it right and right no we have the best example of the differentiated approach is the ones who did it right who saw it coming got it better and have much better results i think i would like to soak in the what the world called. to say here is first of all what is kept them

is by the end of the it's about competitive there's competition on their ship and turkey north pole for that factors that are important here i think one factor that out of many that the world facades is the breakdown of the berlin wall so before the world was i would say as a former physicist the world was classical you have capitalism and you have socialists now with the breakdown of the of the of the berlin wall where entering the new world where politics and economics are quantum what does that mean at the end of the visit it's globalization at the end of the day it's ever in each unit matters it's quantum it's not the global idea. of capitalism or socialism they're each country has its own way of handling that capital is together with ideas from social is because soviet union doesn't exist the fear of soviet union and other nations you're absolutely right because rich people have socialism now you can't

fail it's wonderful you can make catastrophic mistakes and you'll be bailed out so you have cap you have socialism for the rich and everybody else all the rest of us get to listen to you know it's not only socialist for the rich it's also socialism for i mean isn't for the rich for god's ok ok let me go even further with that list of they take go to jail ok let's let's let's take your own country where are you from originally from california. ok so i'm trying to. if you come to europe it's very corrupt but it's a wonderful place. at the end of the day if you take european states what has happened i think the whole idea of welfare state which comes with the idea of equality that every citizen has the right or this has the right of the second thing to the third has become a economy huge burden to that quantum human it the whole idea is development if

you're quick enough if you change yourself if you're evolution doing big call it capital in social and then you'll survive but this is my view it all you can you can no make growth you could have economic growth you can create dividends you can create profit but you don't always create development ronnie it seems to me it's just another bubble being built again it's really it's going to run here because it seems to me it's putting it off putting it off you know i'm not sure what the it is putting it off i want to go back to a reckoning i think and i think what is new is the pace of change. which is creating its own situation and its own dilemma for and particularly for young people who are a big part of whatever crisis we're talking about now in many countries and lost their you know variation when i grew up the idea that i just thought there's a lot of nature was what we used to call the revolution of rising expectations

right it's just completely natural to me and inevitable that i would have a better life than my parent to point out that's an american creed to have very much amerikana and i think is what is in danger now and part of the reason is the pace of change and the. mismatch right now between the education system and the skills and the capacities that kids are learning. and the fast changing need. places for them to use the scales and so i think that's an area where we really need to know. that this is the expectations rising expectations is much more of an emerging market world experience right now or what you think about there. no in russian federation sometimes you have a very interesting joke we speak about one our neighbor neighbor.

is a very good socialist country i have a question what country do in socialist countries and then will russia the best example. of course. finland and so on when i came to finland they said meal is proud we have no one person and for. only one person this year it's number one and it is our protests that we invest not in banks not in the financial structures but first of all we invest for our people for education system for health care system and so on and so on and they have a very good result that is the difference in the united and i think i want to make

comment on the scandinavian countries because steve down very well in the last five years but actually i think it is that story over there you look at that sort of poor pointing out there the household debts over there the levels are the highest in the world have been rising very rapidly they have widespread interest only mortgages. a huge amount on their books i think that this story may be. too good to be true let me know we're raised a very important question because growth of this global crisis in order for there to grow just are going to. if i wasn't always had by the crisis we chill last for about ten years or so this is a try to structure the cries of industrial world for a state. crime is this so we look at the car and cry the crisis is more severe where the traditional industrial state welfare state is developed in europe it's not as strong to do not just good where it is almost no welfare state or in russia

or in russia itself the situation because of the welfare state collapsed in the ninety's and it was a situation is much better in imagination inquiry because there is no central bank . that that's there's no in sense of entitlement ok well it is in the european in the eurozone there is huge in title in the united states it's kind of dodgy and look at the stations of the contrast where. develop a first date industrial face but it doesn't meet the productivity requirement that's in the southern europe is stronger than the northern and again one of the question one of the most interesting question is whether. conscious emerging corner store will for a little industrial development a welfare state or will they would be just completely new decisions in a pension if you want to run if you want to dress like this i think that's very interesting because we saw the west as a model for a century or so ok at the cold war in between but is what the west is doing

a model for everyone else or is it different ways of doing it because when you look at the age it's very different well if the west. can do you know. which clearly showing that. the whatever they have built up is not sustainable at least not sustainable in its present form then i think the questions asked and answered. but i think this brings out the. limitations of talking globally. elation in india where something like eighty percent of the economy is informal in other words. not paying taxes not subject to any kind of social safety net and so on that situation is. very different from i don't know china or

other parts of emerging asia. and unless we can take the route unless the indian government or the indians at large can figure out a way to tackle in formality they're never going to tackle developing india which i mean one thing emerging markets can learn is about to go so much into debt i mean this is a huge issue when you you know the russians got burned so bad in the one nine hundred ninety s. they just keep stuffing money away because they're just so paranoid about it it's a good policy ok there's a lot of people in the russian government with all due respect to spend and spend and spend it ok and there's a lot of other say remember the nine hundred ninety s. we're going to keep some money for a rainy day so i mean different perceptions of how the economy is changing much more risk adverse i think that of the country fifteen years ago have been very cautious you look at indonesia the no no financial sector debt is only sixty percent of g.d.p. extremely low. but china. is a pretty high spot a. show and needs some adjustment to make and i only see attitude towards welfare i

think that there's a structural reason why emerging economies have less dependent on state welfare it's because of the family is still a large you know. the welfare. side of the family and i think the future we don't know when you look at the one child policy in china in. most countries both rates are declining so where the world will be we don't know it's. the structural. change we're talking to know when the crisis of capitalism i was google bad is about a speculation now you keep one out of these are two separate reasons no you mix of the two you're not of the speculators get away you know so i we're on the same side i'm glad i'm all for talking about a structural changes i think it into its own president of the people is going to be one hundred you get is that by the end of the century and if way they don't walk more like a forty year it's. going to be painful it is then if they don't have children you

know people want to have welfare and don't have children who are going to pay them no lawyer these are so i think the way to go where you know i'm very troubled a wall with being that in the decades ahead. it's. very hard. to. get back with her there.

you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so. you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you don't know i'm tom harvey welcome to the big picture.

the lead. in the news a secret lover touring to mccurry was able to build a most sophisticated. doesn't sound anything. to teach me why you should care about. why you should care only. welcome back to on the money i'm peter lavelle to mind you were discussing the crisis of capitalism at the st petersburg international economic forum.

and i'm not someone who is saying you have. it and. it doesn't work i do not believe in the invisible hand range of saying i think it needs a very visible hand this state has many things to do so the state should balance out but the state should not abused over. to allocate all resources to either you or me. and i think we have countries which balance the. we have a very vibrant america which is more innovative it's different it comes from a different structure compared to europe there's no doubt in your we are different and some of the european continent. is about countries have to choose their own way i think it's very very important why it's important

because if you go back some twenty twenty five years ago what that was not the case there was a wonderful model which was the body of the with the what they were you call it the worst thing you have united states and when the countries or former soviet union started their power they all dreamed of a wonderful life like your switzerland but they thought it will come to. morrow immediately and it's of the mother was very simple just privatized it never a love letter lived in poland in the name of release and they said we have capitalism we'll just have more stuff. and i said what's not is simple is that no we did you guys have a lot of stuff we'll have lots of stuff to a live picture and to love having was a lot of stuff is one thing in my sacred love i used to be a politician i used to be prime minister of my own country so one of the first challenges i met was how do i love the world back basically i became

a prime minister and what i had on there was a country of three or four or five years of independence just privatizing like mad everything that we had while the country here was blockaded by its neighbors it had the conflict with its another neighbor so there was no intention from the huge army and to invest in the country because they would like to send money as well so there was no common sense in privatizing except the hopes and everything the big industries for peanuts and basically destroying them so what i'm trying to say here listen i was going on oh no i think that's also not being educating those taken by an example of success so what we have learnt probably one of the lessons that well learned to know that as we heard here here in this country not only has a choice but has to really think about oh it's own a model of success of balance the i.m.f. has a different point of view there are a lot we want our money you have to do this you want our money you have

a lot of conditionality you conditionality conditionality it's all nice and fine what you decide i agree with you but the i.m.f. comes in a whole ok now but it's not about the above let me differently for once. please do it it's because it's not about the uniqueness and the exceptionality and everyone is different in so different. there are a lot of common things that we gotta do we've got to get the fiscal stuff right in order to be able to pay for the minimum of services that we choose we can't choose a certain model and then not pay for it for example or get here because we love the model and then you know pass on to the next to the next generation or if you are blessed with for example raw materials that have a bonanza and so you'd spend the whole of it now instead of doing like what the chileans did we're just keeping it for the next generations except for and then so

the question of the exceptionality is fine every country is unique it's original it's different except or but not so unique not so different you know there are common rules so there are certain rules and there are more and more integration in the world economies and for that you need a lot more commonalities and more plug and it's good that we're on the opposite ends here i mean you wanted to. you see just to well i would come to elaborate to be atoned these but of course. you know this is a famous first trees are on the cutting them by their own tall story that all families be in the same way in. their personal way that's why i would see the ledge extend the same country as his store be some to galician some rules some general rules not to make a disaster but they go to the disaster fooling their own unique way as soon as a country says i'm unique no economic rules exist for me it's the first step to

economic disaster again we should be more just which of them to stand in the political for government performance exist before us we can know what men took on them in crisis you can predict president if you can please look as look at let me. write all the rules for their own advantage no one goes to jail there's no downside you never can fail i mean this. you're making we're making a very simplistic model here but with forgetting the issue of politics there that's very important to me and this is all that's been not simplistic. all disappeared they were. brothers that's it and actually quite a number goes to prison but to come back on something more important. is for example having been chairman of the second largest company in the world we are discussing obviously these subsidies day in and day out take russia in there is

a typical example how the state should function russia has new wood and i think it's two thousand and eighteen. that sixty percent of all drugs have to be produced in russia. that is a state it doesn't say we will do it it is the your call me is going to do it with it's foremost because it's russian companies but they have to be produced here it's a question of price it's a question of security it's a question of control it is particularly a question to give a new life in the country so that the russian scientists all working possed many many of them in boston in switzerland where would they as they will stay here because of protection will be here and this is a typical example of how a government can channel guide and push things in the right direction to fill what you rightly mention is still

a relatively big gap of able but this is the wrong direction in all it's a rugby ball seriously go out of my water if you're a. territory if you don't produce it competitively you're condemning the population to buy expensive low quality problem sorry i know they're good to have the wrong. it will be produced competitively. they have not exclude it's a form firms they have not excluded imports in newly developed they just do something which is a say and give a huge incentive to their country to develop an industry which didn't exist anymore why not open more to competition but you don't like what it is open to because if there are checks in a strike anyone can anyone can but we should we should resist protectionism on trade eat when it's getting jobs in this wonderfully what about if it's creating jobs in this current situation yet they send their kids to school that sounds like a good idea to me by bloggers in big words you just want big pharma to invade

russia i mean look you know reporters shoot yourself in the foot because you can't export nobody is competitive the world is no organized along global value chains and you do one of the links of the global value chain russia or any other country in the world it has nothing to do with russia it is the way the whole production in the world is or going full circle here we're all talking about it and then i have to have to correct you it's a question of security as well you are going to put the disposal of vaccines where we we i'm saying now we can choose whether we give these vaccines to america doesn't produce a mile over to russia where security is a very strange birth we don't need to go through. a few smokers who are doing just . the inefficiency on sawrey way indication but real progress on the road i'm sorry you know we can all live in a dream world but we do not believe in one country and come to be competitive

security and will remain a very important thing but you. see let me finish so not to say it is sponsibility of the government in switzerland or in germany or in france to take care of the security of their. people you should be doing believe that the most secure country is north korea going to school if. i can make three exception as it was in the. evening it's no problem it's not serious not. that governments can gift and for you in this particular case to close. your mentioning. yes production should be here yes it should be cheaper yes one should

break certain police which the export to which i need a long and i nevertheless we all understand that these things should be done by generics from israel they're cheaper and you know we will go ahead of time. i kept pushing the crisis part but we got some optimism here i want to thank my pet wonderful panel here and i would like to thank our audience here for being with. cuba is not a failure of the cuban people it's sidel castro. do

shows both hostility and suspicion encouraged by the government these operations against cuba are known to the attorney general of the united states the president himself the defendants intelligence on how to infiltrate to resist. freedom try. terrorists. who is. well no real terrorist please stand up on our cheek. kiss right on the seat. first trip. and i think you're. on our reporters' twitter. and instagram.

to be in the. morning news today violence is once again fled elfland. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. china corporations are all today . look.

i've decided that the united states should take military action against syrian regime targets. president obama says he wants to launch a military intervention against syria but the issue will be taken to congress for approval breaking news. international news and comments live from our studio center here in moscow.