one of mere putin has personally appealed to the american public and political establishment to give negotiations a chance in war torn syria so tough questions remain primarily whether washington can we frame from its habit of using brute force. alone welcome to me sophie shevardnadze but today we're talking about syria again u.s. military strikes are being held back and may not take place at all in no small part thanks to russia but is it progress in a war that has already cost so what he lives or are we back to square one. millions of people displaced hundreds of thousands killed and lists

fights with little advantage why the sides push the end of the civil war in syria beyond the horizon by the size and the rebels are running on weapons supplied by their powerful respected allies to the syrians care who wins any war would a possible intervention solway anything or just worsen the disaster who has the key to the door which leads to peace. and our guest today hans blix who worked as the u.n. chief weapons inspector read the time iraq was accused of having weapons of mass destruction and was invaded as a result mr blix it's really great to have you with us on the show now russia's latest offer to hand over the control of syria's chemical stockpiles to the international community can you call it a diplomatic success so or is it still too early to talk. i think it is a success so far that because it has opened a dialogue about possible peaceful solutions only to exclude chemical weapons and

tanisha use for it is not enough over one hundred thousand syrians have died in this war and rages continues to rage and i think what we need is a cease fire and talks about a conference in which the relevant parties get together and find an interim regime which you know here in russia there were a lot of jokes circulating in a social media about how obama should hand over his nobel prize to vladimir putin what do you make of that. i think it's a little premature. but i think that the two leaders and also mr lover of mr kerry have a tremendous responsibility this is cuticle and that is not the world all that good a policeman but we don't want the individual countries whether the u.s. or russia or china or anybody else to be the world's policeman we hope that the

permanent members of the security council will exercise their responsibility and work together as the u.n. charter was intended you know despite backing down what they call local strikes on syria the u.s. rhetoric is still pretty intense do you believe interventions been cancelled or is just a delay no i think that there are incredibly complicated problems and i think the focus now is enormously on the technicalities of inspections of chemical weapons but one should also think about how can we end the hostilities how can we end the fighting. it seems to me that the great powers have influence there that the world could hardly continue if the fighting parties did not get more money and get more weapons and i think they have saudi arabia perhaps and qatar are reported to supply the rebels and russia and iran. perhaps a little hizbullah are reported to supply weapons and money to the other side i think if that would be could be agreed in the security council that all the

suppliers should stop giving the weapons and demand a cease fire and a conference then we might see a blood to punish is understandable that i want to do that that was the end of this hymn of the weapons that's good but what the main thing is after all to stop the war if i may i just want to talk a little bit more about this possible strike because if it does take place it would change the course of events greatly to the way things are looking as of now the congress would most probably have voted against a strike well that's according to the latest survey so could obama have chosen to delay the strike in order to gain more support went by syria has been propelled into the mass media especially the western version of events and you know the more you talk about it the right looks like the intervention is the only solution. well the strike is not a solution it is a penalty and has much to do with american wish to uphold the credibility of the u.s. president mr obama wants war and. that if he were to use chemical weapons that would

change mr obama's calculation that was taken as a promise that he would intervene and now he's held to that promise but there is another promise behind this that is also perhaps even more important that is the statement from the u.s. side and others that they will not allow iran to get closer to a nuclear weapon and many people feel that if they now give way to syria and do not carry out a strike this would show the u.s. is paper tiger of use of iraq so there are many additional complications to this and i think both russia and iran an important role in this and i'm glad that the initiative were taken by mr putin and i think they must live up to the fact that we in the rest of the world we expect them permanent members of the security council to try to solve the problems and avoid bloodshed. from what i understand you support their original u.s. version of events that it was who carried out the attack on august twenty first but

it would seem to me that it's a suicidal an admiral a stupid move on behalf of asset who was actually starting to defeat the rebels at the time of the attack what makes you believe it was him have you seeing any solid proof. well i agree with that reasoning i think it was the disastrous decision on the part of our side and that's why i think you on the most go thought it couldn't have been him but the evidence that is gradually coming forward i think that this points to him i don't think we should project went on it until we had the reports all of the international inspectors the u.n. inspectors they are not asked to say who committed it but even so we must we have appointed we have sent inspectors and we should listen to them and maybe one can draw some conclusions also about her as well as ability i am inclining to think that so much as come also for independent sources to believe that yes the regime was behind this this attack it doesn't exclude the rebels might use chemical weapons improvised chemical weapons in areas that i don't exclude that that should

also be investigated and that was actually why the inspectors who were there were sent there to investigate all earlier uses of chemical weapons so just to make sure you don't exclude that he may have been the rebels because russia says de tak could have been provoke ation on the part of the rebels. i don't believe that i think this scale points to the large organization that was behind it but that doesn't mean that i approve of the punitive strike i think we must not bypass the security council in washington they do not hold so much for the united nations but for the rest of the world we would like to see the council function that requires also a statesman like behavior both corruption by the us you know like you said this strike itself. would have solved anything i think that's a very valid objection i mean the punishment but it doesn't really sold anything in it is pathetic i think to to kill and to strike them saying now you can go on with

your war but use other means yes this is not humane thinking that you were chief of the u.n. weapons inspection team when the west went to war with iraq how was it determined that saddam had the weapons of mass destruction. well that was who determined back in ninety ninety one when saddam occupied two lights and we went in i was the head of the international atomic energy agency at that time and we could then our inspectors were sent in and we could see how they were building calla drones and how they are preparing a nuclear weapon but all that was taken out during the ninety's very harsh sanctions that the iraqi people suffered under but the they did not reconstruct the program of weapons of mass destruction that was suspected in the lead it's been claimed by the us and by the u.k. and we were sent in to verify if indeed two thousand and two we spent seven hundred inspections there all over the country and we can only report that we did not find

any in a weapon then indeed there weren't any so the second war the war in two thousand and three was an unnecessary and a horrible war it was meant to separate democracy and well that each event was anarchy thank you out of all people you would know in case of syria how does the u.n. carry out its analysis well if the secretary general that take an initiative to send inspectors and to negotiate with us for some inspection but for the rest it is this members of the security council who have the responsibility and the secretary to assist by analysis and by collecting data and so forth but the responsibility of the rest of the permanent members but also the other ten members of the security council they have to sit down and work day and night to find a way that also saves the face as many as one can but what about to listen to objection from the united nations if you've got to approval of congress which in itself is doubtful or would he just push on with his plans because we've seen it

happen before well what's the role of the united nations if nobody really listens to it. well they do i mean the case of. iraq in ninety and ninety one there russia and china routed through the others and agreed on a u.n. intervention. to stop the occupation and it was president bush sr who did very much of that it was a successful great moment in the case of libya and that was also an agreement russia feels that the western states sort of extended or used to extensively and they felt perhaps a little trapped in it but nevertheless it was an agreement in the security council it's difficult to reach such agreements but they need to do it more often with the world expect them in the council to act responsibly for the whole world not only in their own own narrow interests yet the latest reports suggest both assad and the rebels are guilty of war crimes the rebels have allegedly carried out and more killings that are sad how can the west side with them i mean clearly if obama is to

strike it can't possibly be natural. well i think it is headed clear that there are awful war crimes committed on both sides in this war and some people talk about the use of the international criminal court and i think that's it's a step forward that we have such a court to that can examine cases and decide who was guilty but it should be in all directions and if the court is engaged in this situation now that's a possibility i think they should examine all the war crimes that are committed to be taken up when possible when the war when it is are over but after the break what place to superpowers hold in the crisis and war without an end to a stat what's in store for syria statement.

you. are. back with me here.

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a welcome back we're talking about syria and the political game surrounded it with former u.n. chief weapons inspector hans blix great to have you back now logically if that is removed who will take his place i mean are the possible candidates already proving to be just as bad if not worse but i don't know i think what the game should be is a conference in which the interested parties various groups are there there will be there are lights and i think it probably will have to step aside but it's not the only one in that moment there will be the rebel movements there will be the u.s. and i will be russian i'm sure you're on the saudi arabia qatar all those who are involved in that will have to be there and the a most of the get this is incredibly difficult after this bloody war to must be to create an interim authority that

represents all the various groups. in syria to create. magine how could anyone who are confidential it's just hard to imagine anyone coming to power and reconciling with the people after everything that has happened no matter which side takes the lead but if you look at the things globally who's war is it at this point of the syrians on the ground or is it more of a russian u.s. political standoff. well on your first question i mean there have been situations with terrible atrocities happening and yet the parties can come together know of south africa as one situation in which a horrible apartheid had been there and yet to found a reconciliation nigeria has happened but is an incredibly difficult i agree with you but it's the only way they are if the alternative is continued civil war well

that is pretty horrible dog was your second question but i question is at this point do you think it's a war of syrians on the ground or is it more rational u.s. political standoff who one might say that basically the war is a contest between saudi arabia and iran so the arabia wants to have a son the muslim government in syria and iran wants to have a government that is society more with the shiite side this goes on in many parts of the middle east and i think we in the western side we think that they they ought to coexist the two and there is of course a that was a hope on the u.s. side that if their son is came into power they would get a regime that would not be friendly with iran and that was a fear on the iranian russian side that if they got such a regime it would be to their disadvantage however i think that the question of the iranian nuclear. efforts to expand its nuclear program isn't is

still that should be settled and sold apart from the syrian conflict and with a new government in tehran i think there is hope for some a call conciliatory measures some interim steps that might lead to a less tension that is very important because has to do with this with avoiding spread of weapons of mass destruction there was an opportunity missed i think last year when they us blocked the holding of a conference in helsinki on the. on this soon free weapons of mass destruction in the middle east that was regrettable i think we need to get back to that we need a middle east that is free not only of chemical weapons but also nuclear weapons but do you know aside with the speculation in the west that syria for the west is actually just a way to get to iran. well i think the u.s. support for the rebellion in the beginning was certainly supported by. by people

democratic people who want to see it want to do see a less brutal less or precede regime in in syria at the same time i think that the government hoped that if you were to topple assad that might bring into government a regime that would not be friendly to iran but as the war went on the world saw that there were many different forces on the rebel side that perhaps you would get a regime that was very fundamentalist islamic and perhaps even more dangerous to israel as well and therefore the outside has not been so keen to really make a difference in the war and to side with the u.s. have been reluctant to send any any weapons which the rebels want to so i think we also would like to have a regime that is inclusive at this stage but they should also press more for acting stopping the hostilities because there we have over one hundred thousand dead. but

as much as west and america may dislike the current iranian regime i mean it is played it pretty clear that if the west wants to find a solution to the syrian crisis that is one more time f.s.s. if they want to find a solution that iran could actually play a key role in regulating do they realize that yes i think they are near so i think they do but the feeling is in the u.s. fears of iran have been very very strong in the past and the they still are on the other hand i think they have to know. that there is a new government in tehran a government that has been very much more open to discussions and wish to end the war but then end the conflict at the same time it must not be a solution that is humiliating for iran it's a proud people and they're proud of their achievements and this has to be taken into account but i think there is hope for some progress on the on the issue of uranium nuclear program and it should be even more ambitious it should be an

ambition to have is own free both the weapons of mass destruction or nuclear weapons and also all the millions of producing them that would mean that israel would have to do way with its nuclear weapons and is reversed saying iran would have to do away with this enrichment program and others in the region would have to commit themselves not to not to enrich uranium and agree and also assurance of supply or the fuel that they need for the nuclear power reactors in the region if you get back to russia at this country's supplies weapons to syria and it's legal now the west supports the rebels including military aid and i'm not sure how legal that is why saying you're not putting an arm supply embargo on both sides i think that's what they should agree to and i think that they should exert pressure on those who supply weapons to to accept a cease fire within a certain date this is not an easy thing this elaborate them is to carry on going to meet in geneva now that is fine they have two days maybe that will not be a not enough but the great thing about the initiative from russia now is that there

is an opening for talks rather than simply. positioning political positioning and active mutual accusations. but when the chemical stockpiles are transferred down terry international control the war may go on for god knows how long still so will the u.s. be fine with that as long as no chemical weapons are used but i think it would be very practical or very difficult to have international inspectors supervising the elimination of the of the chemical weapons it may be not so difficult for the. theme for our saddam regime to issue a commitment not to use them and a commitment to declare what they have in a commitment to destroy them but actually to carry this out fully in the during a civil war that is raging i think is practically a very difficult moral should not get lost in these technicalities what are the risks that assad would use chemical weapons once more if he did it and this time i

think he would have narrowly escaped from a punitive strike by the u.s. would you then risk another occasion of this another which certainly would bring up about an international military action i don't think is if he carried out a strike in the first place and that is we have to find out now the chemical stockpile handover to rush hour or any other third party how it physically possible peacekeepers on the ground taking them out of the country what can you walk us through that i think it is exceedingly difficult we know that on the chemical weapons convention the u.s. and russia have agreed to go in then taking them in a many years to do away with their chemical weapons and to do that to begin to do that during a civil war i think is even harder but i don't think it sounds very practical but the beginning of it is an opening it's an opening for talks leading to ceasefire and that is very important the first steps are easy the next steps are very very difficult if not impossible you know i was reading a pentagon research paper yesterday and it states that seventy five thousand troops

would be needed to take care of syria's chemical stockpiles and that's a number that's not even definite yet so this could equal up to a like a mini occupation of the country no. i think the figures were given to demonstrate how incredibly difficult it would be to do away with chemical weapons during a war so it's not practicable literacy what is good about the good about the proposal is that we we do we do not have a strike yet we could have had a strike a week ago we haven't had this military action yet but there is talk about. elimination of the weapons we must also remember that there are other countries in the region that may have chemical weapons still that are not ratify the chemical weapons convention and there are reports that israel had chemical weapons in the past whether they still have it i don't know but there are reports that they had it in the past not just to resume this policy of nonintervention is a better one but that's that's your quote but with this much involvement of both the west and russia already and like you said a saudi arabia can't we call it

a local war i mean it feels like it's like a third world war coming to you know to completion. it's like many men in earlier wars it's local but with intervention from any side we talk about the u.s. intervention but of course we're selling dollars we're sending all weapons from neighboring states to the rebels sending a weapons to from iran and perhaps russia another of those this are also intervention this keeps the war going on without support or weapons and money from the outside they could not fly so the war is by the outside world and the outside rule in my view if you stop feeding the war what would the west cleary on the rebel side what are assets chances actually to getting his country out of the mass is there a chance. of seemed the upper hand a while ago but it may be a temporary thing and the only sure thing is that the war goes on very much and.

that is what we have a responsibility to try to stop. well that's it for today our guess was hans blix next year and chief weapons inspector thank you for watching we'll see in the next edition of starting. well not talking about language as well but i will only react to situations i have read the reports so i'm likely to push the no i will leave them to the state department to comment on your minor point the monthly's say to secure yes because all you're talking knows i. think you know more weasel words.

when you made a direct question be prepared for a change when you find you should be ready for a. freedom of speech a little down to freedom to. i know c.n.n. the m s n b c news have taken some slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's close and for the truth and might think. it's because one whole attention and the mainstream media works side by side the joke is actually on here because the people coming up. at our teen years we have a different approach. because the news of the world just is not this funny

i'm not laughing dammit i'm not how. you guys stick to the jokes will handle the stuff that i've got. ok. i dave a croc it while going to ten deer oliver jane it's a little while in the middle of the chesapeake bay kind of a genocide a lack of black audi. a ramp a year all in the chesapeake bay probably one of the best areas in effect to sell fred. this is that your time and your island before the channel was cut for zero zero zero here. are way up there. as go all. right here are some of the headstones from the graves that for here this is a fruits that's what we don't want happen to taint your all and we want to get some

protection and make sure that we don't go into the chesapeake bay like uppers did in other communities. the main competitor girl on the market is mother nature. may customers struggle with to. fight for each drop from an old dirty supply. let people think i are prices pure want to. live on t.v. . they use it up there and wash their hands in it and flush their toilets when the same warner. messines is selling and spraying water.

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the syrian government takes its first steps towards chemical disarmament with washington's threats of force remaining one of the main stumbling blocks for the top diplomats meeting in geneva. the n.s.a. has reportedly been disguising itself as google trick online uses into surrendering private data using techniques from the world's top packages. i've also reporting that. its latest crackdown on protests in britain is condemned for its willingness to support the actions of its top stories this hour.