today america hardball those prismatic he was found was all gone the state of politics today it was considered perfectly normal thirty years ago for the opposition leader to represent the president how times it can you essentially have to imagine bain or representing obama to putin unimaginable we are a country of compromise the from the b. beginning when you hear the capitals in washington there was a pretty place to put a gavel it was a compromise between north and south plus he's saying he could win the election oh no i think he will be closer than you think to hillary clinton because the country is split that's all ahead on larry king now.

before you know him as the are really nothing to hold still hardball with chris matthews on m.s.n. b c he was a top aide to house speaker tip o'neill during the president reagan administration and now chris has written a new book titled tipping the giver recounting his experiences of a time when two political opponents could work together for the benefit of the country always great to welcome him to anything i do chris matthews who i think i made you famous yes you did tell the story the heart of all and i viceroy discovered you driving across the country when everybody fell in love with your driving to do that was in about an hour long with god king hakon here is exhausting when there's nothing else to do driving their dances but then you start to have me on and you would be having you would have me on what you were first thought of as it would tip the first time we met was when you started the show on c.n.n. and we went up there was constant in your first guest was against you could you did mario cuomo anyway just kill who had made when we had to push on the first time we were going to watch the live show you know he wanted him to and i sort of work

cuomo and you brought tony and it was great because because you recognize to power in history and he was going to be looking back and that's why you want i'm so early and i was i used to keep it had to do i was keep it he would have been ticked off but i kept a diary. years that all through this book reagan kept a diary to keep a diary but i wanted to some of those days working for him were really tough i mean reagan was tough he was tough the tension was so high those days you could make a mistake as kirk o'donnell the chief counsel said you've got about a thousand you know about a thousand around here you've got to make every move right why did you when hardball came out and we could to argue that that was a sensational book and they do of course a great book on jack kennedy very book and he wanted like hardball the book you know i liked it why did you wait so long to write this i mean you had all this information on what did to pass away before and i keep thinking why did i why did i

why did i maybe i felt it was getting worse the context and it was really worse and then. and that the relate here's what happened to me when i worked for not ari weiss he was there for jack lew he's now secretary treasurer used to sit next to me and he said this at a breakfast the other day with david rubenstein he said when we were back then we thought that was the most part is that i would just that's what we thought and i thought i'd call this this donnybrook when i first thought about writing it a fight between two irish guys and then i began to give lectures on a different places about the relationship and i started to realize you know what's interesting about these guys is not that they fight everybody fights like brothers but they always got to a conclusion got somewhere and had a purpose whether it was letting reagan have his vote in eighty one or the tax bill in eighty two or saving so secured eighty three or the really good tax reform bill or the secret stuff in northern ireland i found about and then the secret stuff i found about how reagan he was with regular reagan was almost dead and they prayed the twenty third psalm together and then later when he represented reagan to this

new soviet leader reagan had never met before gorbachev and i kept thinking this is different you know as i came across a piece that save the other day this is bryant gumbel when he's doing that today show you know the cold open in this hour a bipartisan delegation is meeting in moscow with the new soviet leader they are carrying with them a letter from the present expressing a desire to meet with him the leader of the delegation is thomas pizza jr the speaker of the house he didn't say with any sarcasm novelty it was considered perfectly normal thirty years ago for the opposition leader to represent the president how times can you listen to better representing obama to putin unimaginable told me once that this might explain the whole relationship that he scored straight on the house floor he just told the party then goes back to his office and the secretary says the president's on the phone tip said oh i'm going to hear it now and pick up the phone and reagan said did you hear the one about the.

kind of relationship you also do it the other way found duberstein those guys you know he would. and max friedersdorf head of congratulations tip would be railing against them and that these guys are given loaded for bear you've got to get on this time mr president to stick it to him and he has to step. up and he was i was so glad to hear from ron reagan who i've gotten to know who is a liberal you know great and nice kid and that's a strange bird to carry being ronald reagan son and he and he said that he would always talk around the house about how fond he was of tip and the house which is nice to hear how do you explain the relationship what cliff why why did that work i think they were both in their seventy's they knew this was they act the big act there won't be any more this is when they had their chance president speaker there's no sense saying let's just give some speeches and retire no you get that point you've got to you've got to deliver and i think they knew that they want to have some points on the board when they retired and i think that reagan knew he wanted to fix our security even though you always been a critic of it he wanted to deal with the northern ireland think of his blood and

he also wanted to the democrats behind him when he went to be there with gorbachev it was wonderful not only to deliver the letter he got over there valves for the guy but my favorite conversation is gorbachev says thank you for bringing this for the president isn't if there's let me make one thing clear i'm the opposition. and govern such as what's that mean. to have opposition over there is a common good so then ted says it means we didn't disagree on everything which i love that line was the affection genuine it was a friend i did these you know these guys as well as i know reagan was kind of a loner you know he didn't have friends guy friends he didn't have guys get caught up at eleven o'clock at night and then soon as nancy was even his kids were a bit distant they talked to about a million friends including you million friends but i know that i've seen these pictures of these guys together i've seen what they said about each other and that is a pretty good facsimile of our friendship chris matthews the host of course hardball on them as and b c tipping the gipper has just been published but the points of

criticism i'd like to respond to your the new york post want to get this right wrote a review of the book stating my views ultimate point is to attack by implication today's congressional republicans for not getting with the obama program is this a valid critique well you know i didn't write this week i started writing is more than two years ago i signed the book like two years ago i began giving lectures on this topic at least five six years ago so they're crazy. and he also cites a conspiracy theory by the way you know it only has to do this guy i don't know always do is read reagan's diary which i've been pointing out is a big part of this book and to make great quotes it's a tips to be real paul he could really like and be your friend then try to knock your block of politically that's reagan for you you know that's what he said they did this whole day they really can't stand is the only people who wouldn't like this book don't get america we are a country of compromise the from the b. beginning when the capitals in washington it was a pretty place to put

a gavel it was a compromise between north and south that's where it's been since the beginning and some compromise been bad some of the good and they didn't hold grudges this nonsense so what's wrong there has operation you're talking about calls for the morning next morning from reagan what's wrong no. well look what happened when i saw this thing starting in the. end when i was there any eighty's i think a lot of it was the anger over vietnam i think the republicans resented the fact the democrats supported the war when johnson was there the minute he was gone nixon had the war they acted like there's nothing about it i think that watergate i think the republicans resented that because they felt it was overkill wiretapping does not know what's the big deal so that's attitude on both sides both sides get bitter and ice together is what meetings they were so angry at a lot of it was even ideologues it was just partisan anger and then what else happened newt gingrich came to town and say keep your wives at home. big deal it

caused a lot of trouble with marriages a number to it cause trouble with any kind of socialize in washington socializing in washington these guys never became friends never hung out with each other's families and they never really forged that a bond with washington and the people there and now these like these guys on the far right don't like that either they don't want to take up or in washington they don't want to be friends but the whole idea of the constitution was you come you meet you get together you have a few drinks at the local tavern and you figure out how to get along that's always been the notion that's how we wrote our constitution had she been kennedy were a great friend that's right for prose bills together we could name the whole senate you know what i think i would write you a man every senator used to be able to do the kennedy cabinet like i had to know that sometimes now that used to be amazingly good content to pony up a new and gerry ford the closest friends in the world. michael you know this is there's one thing about jet travel was hurt to. bob michael and dan rostenkowski to different parties chicago area they would drive every week in fourteen hours

overnight to go home because they don't have the free travel those days with their lives and so these and sixty's and so the two guys other congressmen would sleep in the back on a mattress it was a station wagon and one guy would stay work to keep the other guy awake ok so an affront to the back fourteen hours that forges relationship because the mill the night when you talk about if you're not on where they go i get that it's not about their wives their kids their problems in their marriage they talk about it all and they become guys to trust each other and it's very important politics to trust each other do you think some of it was party lines do you think some of this obama antagonism is racial yeah but you can't. i think everybody has raised this birth or issue that says he was born somewhere else that trump was trumpeted transpired at that otherwise business reasons i assume that everything he does is business reasons. even if he was first what he was not he was born in honolulu we know the record unless you have this real conspiracy theory this white woman from kansas said i got an idea i make my son present first i don't have

a son yet but i'm going to go marry the african guy name hussein obama i'm going to go get married over i'm going to have a kid over in kenya on purpose. so i can lie about it fake it and they are going to listen to what world is this this was all over start out like he's a he's a commonsense guy a deal are done but you know the funny thing is that the irony is that ted cruz is being hyped up now as a possible right wing leader here he was born to an american mother outside the country that i think that makes him an american and makes me a natural born american is that it goes really papers you can't and you know and nobody questions his right to be president so why they question the other guy so you think it's racial i think that's driving it and i can't prove it but when guys i had a guy come on the show for texas farenthold two weeks ago and he said just repeat after me congressman obama was a was legitimately elected president four times he would. they don't want to give that away they want to play to their right wing you know what do you what do you make of this car and they never did that to george romney when he ran even though he's born in mexico to american parents and they were sort of emigres they were

ex-pats because of polygamy they got out of country on purpose or to john mccain our friend because he was born in a canal zone or because jett barry goldwater was born in arizona territory before was a state this was never an issue nobody looked for there were no big lawyers about it but this thing is i don't know he's not one of us i think that's what it's about the book is tipping the good but we'll talk about hosting t.v. shows we'll see some pairs of notes chris and i in the world of cable news and twenty four hour news right after that when it does come this guy is reducing it is getting. more news today violence is once again flared up. these are the images.

from the streets of canada. giant corporations rule the day. i. think. everybody. should you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy schreck albus. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across a cynical we've been hijacked lying handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once built up i'm tom hartman and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem truck rational debate and

a real discussion critical issues facing america to find ready to join the movement then welcome to the big picture. we're back with the wonderful chris matthews the book is tip and they give birth how has twenty four hour news it's changed the world the fed and good like used to be able to have a private conversation in washington i was a you anymore i see a guy been a not a bad guy lose that obama not a big guy how can we all know what they talked about. right away we find out that he's this card is chief of staff to degree one of the then he gets back and eric cantor disagrees with kevin mccarthy disappeared and all we know all it's like within an hour or so within that two hour cycle the radio i knew had for years had to be fed every two hours or so i always told young politicians use radio because every two hours they have to read restock you know tell which is every twenty now

televisions every two hours because the mass and fox and c.n.n. have to consciously recharge their batteries every hour they got the latest story if it meant what we call an actuality a little beeper they call them you know and you can get them on the air congressman joe blow just said this but now you have to feed it with with luke russert up and help him son with the latest buzz the latest inside people talk and talk and talk and there's no secrets and that means you can't make a deal for a while and that's affected that and obviously has to be thought of the wrong stuff getting onto first all that happens that's going to that's why the old thing we have pete williams justice department he's one of the best because the hardest thing to do is to tell your desk not yet. that we don't have it yet. also what about jose and yourself included i was never that way but we were one difference hosts are all opinionated and you're never been you know i think that's different i think that's changed a lot i think about. my sunday shows off the air now it was not opinion week they

show is gangbusters gangbusters because people. somebody in my in my world once said to people some people like ice tea. and some people like hottie but nobody likes lukewarm sea is that too philosophical. very heavy had to go this route is awkward what is wrong with good questions live well answered the viewer the attention where you are on what home is wrong with well what you always do i mean if you were comes home and they have an attitude and they want to enjoy that as they want somebody else to voice it. rachel's unbelievable there was no rachel before rachel she just as a point of view in a background orientation of everything people want to hear that i find the younger people coming to my network very self-confident i thought i was confident very self-confident about their viewpoints and believing because they tend to be right somebody wants to hear and they're usually right people but you know i think it's like the answer to newspaper which is go on which was the star in the philly the

bold and everybody reads the book i used to deliver it you come only afternoon on the train and it was always the five fifty guys on the train all read the same newspaper and they get that he had put up a page in a reading james they call patrick or they're reading stories fleecing or somebody and they're reading the page is they want to hear it or buckley so now instead of really in the pop ed page and they have the new flavor they're turning it on and it's opinion and i'm watching fox will what's it megan kelly be able to stay in the middle or was she was over was she move over will she have to move over them and look at the credit where it was more than the center left and she's moved over there's a lot of group pressure in those places and any place she was there is no i feel i think it's there i mean i think you know your audience you know you're talking to i always know i'm talking to but i also want to i always want to keep i always want to keep the chunk of republicans as well as democrats and i want to cheer you i preach the choir no i say what i feel like saying i write i tried to begin the show

for twenty before i taped five i write the end of the show so i get to do two opinion parts of the show the questions our producers will work on but. you know i like to stimulate discussion i am a point of view well i mean like you were always a big fan of cuomo but you never said it correct but i am a big fan of obama's and i say it that's what changed what do you think hip would have thought of this today what's going on he would have washed. he would watch the cable t.v. you got to believe what you but if. the only time he ever got mad at me on the air was when he was still around and i came on and i know i can only explain this as a screw up i'm watching the debate between. beating quayle the other guy and lloyd bentsen and i thought came on like gangbusters he was young he was fresh she was good looking obviously he was just paid the headlines singles and then of course i will and i was with bill hurst my boss the publisher we were at a first i going to get a beer for him and me and i come out of the fridge come back i musta missed the homerun you know jack kennedy did it that was

a home run and nobody remembers another second mini second of that debate i knew jack kennedy you're no jack kennedy the kid the kid was like plaster he was just like a point of personal privilege to come back with some i take it with the exception that he's a big some pathetic realize his whole career is gone it was funny it was funny if we were him but i made the mistake of saying i thought he won the debate so eight o'clock in the morning if you can imagine this on a saturday morning to it's in a book tim calls me up. what are you up so what game are you playing these are guys that are some elaborate conspiracy all right why do you don't be crazy to say that you can't possibly believe that and then he goes. ok see you later it was always took the heat off at the end he was but he was i figure i had this whole imagery of him he'd been playing cards all night. because i once dropped off a speech to him when he had the big irish weather on the all night costume for that

and some younger guys playing with it was just not all guys and i know he played and he still didn't get up eight o'clock saturday morning he was up and i think and i think he was getting ribbing all night and you're a guy and you're you die and he says that so the way i write in the book the sort of make it more nassau and sort of attack was i guess he still saw me as a spokesman you know how would he have worked in today's congress he would have adapted well you know not to the bad part but he first we had a great strength he was a deep gut liberal. he was not a hyphenated democrat he was a neo liberal neocon so he was a deep good democrat who cared about the working people. usually kids who could afford college all people were sick anybody that was anybody was in real trouble he didn't much interest at harvard kids you know or yuppies you know go somewhere else but he looked out for people that really needed something i mean the fact is this car should be b.c. of boston college is for the kids the working kid they can't get there because it's becoming more of an elite school now and that's where his interests were and i and

they were really wasn't some phony liberal that worried about pressure groups or keeping different ethnic groups happy he never did that he did what he had to do but he basically would say i always knew he was talking about real cases and what do you think reagan would have corder tea party well you know. let's think he would've liked their goals but not their method. it would never have done what he would never of shot down those arguments over shutting the government down those days last a day or two when they were little things and they weren't even in the newspapers i was back looking from the clips they were just little things and usually what happened was it was over something so small and numerical that they could fix and they did fix it today we're going and it is a long this is a long one this one twenty sixteen some quick things and we've got some social media questions for you hillary if you know her well if she keeps it cool she's she's ready her generation's ready women my age are ready you hear it all the time

it's their turn she's got a movement behind her she's got the credentials the resume in record a clean record our mutual friend reed dickens who got into politics only because of hardball i'm glad to help these republicans but he's a moderate republican over that the ideal race for him would be jeb bush versus hillary clinton with that would be very predictable and i think it's going to be weirder i predict. here's my prediction hillary will run hillary will win the nomination because bill be out there campaigning for the greatest surrogate in american history because he's better than her as a politician because he likes people more than anybody likes people and he'll be everywhere and he wanted to defend himself and all beef she's great with everybody loves and the marriage is great support all together so what else the republican party i think is getting is going through one of its volcanic periods just like the democrats did with mcgovern where they pick somebody just because they feel like doing it they're tired of putting it out a candidate who the hub like well like they're going to get so i think it's rand paul watching this ted cruz is too far over he's going to make rand paul seem more

centrist rand paul is making friends in the congress making friends around town he is establishment himself and i'm telling you he's got it with that he had a filibuster that worked the whole country even on the far left loved it whereas the other guy had a filibuster was considered phony i just think he's got to high. at hand and you know what who else can win the three states that matter and it's always the same three he can win iowa he's had no way he can win new hampshire he's ahead and he'll win south carolina no one else christie could win new hampshire christie can't win iowa would have a hard time in south carolina but rand paul could win all three can run the table that's why i think you'll be the nominee he's saying he could win the election on i think he will be closer than you think to hillary clinton because the country is split here's what he could carry independents i think you get up to forty seven but you know what hillary will run right through the center where she's really strong she is more hawkish than obama she will go to that sweet spot of working class white voters for no good reason but have had

a probably the bomb they think is too elite whatever to think one of my things she will grab pennsylvania she won't even have a shot at west virginia you are often critical of her i'm in book three when you do this why are you doing this because i remember you're all for gas i know why you're reminding me everybody's critical of somebody at some time or do you make of the future marco rubio i think he's dead meat with the right wing joe biden will be challenge already up until she runs governor. good luck governor andrew cuomo what's his future i don't think i think it's father didn't travel and he won't travel there new york guys born and bred and stay there social media questions that always shining twelve on twitter was the government shutdown worth it they're not going to get rid of affordable care that stay in the law so they had to they wouldn't they mr de had the wrong target but it may work to get attention to the issue and it did unite them on the right and the republican party you know so it serves a purpose uniting the party but it will be a bad shot they're going to miss the target but what it might lead to is some real

reform on entitlements generally and something on corporate tax reduction to help with business mainly corporate they really want to cut spook us to government if they can find a way to reduce the cost the federal government between now and thanksgiving they'll be able to score victory the loser will be ted cruz though because he had the wrong plant. beginning at k j m ten sixteen on twitter wants to know is a three party system a ridiculous idea just because it would end up being two parties in a coalition so we'd end up being one party like in britain because you have to run the congress you can't run a country with two hundred seventy electoral votes how do you get two hundred seventy electoral votes a three way race when you're the third race third party at me on a file on twitter as do you think people ought to inform today what's different about the american public today versus twenty years ago we were everyone knows everything well everybody knows the cream the top of the milk bottle they know the top part of the foam on the beer they do know that you can tell because your list

of the comedy shows that night like stewart and colbert are all the young people need is now all the jokes so they know enough to laugh at the front of the punchline but depth who reads the jumps anymore the newspaper who reads the john is the one that said my office is filled with smart producers i commence anybody got the post i want to take us to the movies tonight and we're going to post around here oh i suppose nobody's got one and he stopped stacks of these newspapers i would say down the young people today go online they look up what they want to learn and that's all they learn it doesn't broaden you you and i grew up where you pick up the paper you start reading something in the bathroom you're like ice cream store you're on a bus it's about pakistan because is there nobody does that anymore you've got to read only what you want to read i remember when you were the washington bureau chief for the san francisco examiner and so i loved that job loved. that we can take up peace and sunday love hundred sixty two pieces one year alone or is no examiner now in her sold it and what the chronicle chronicles fight for its life

these papers its unbelieve the thought of the enquirer i don't know how long they keep going i'm speaking prince twice a week. new orleans times picayune what are we going to do in our dentist office where there's no u.s. news this. is the u.s. there's a paint on printing more that's right and as we were gone time is still there i love how eleven pages of a parade parade is shrinking every week the sunday supplement i don't see that there was a delicious is there the l.a. times it's not the l.a. to get smaller it's there it's got you know water skies personally pray to god it is the better it does alice townsend on facebook wants to know who's a dream guess winston churchill it's hard to get. minds for the dough castro yeah so he still got it they've still got it here be great to find out how you why when they become a communist when how can we told us we're all rooting for his kids we were all rooting for that guy we thought he was a democrat how joyous so long and did you have anything to do with douse. thanks

larry thank you book is chip and the gipper when politics worked thanks to my guest chris matthews the book is now available everywhere and you can catch him on hardball on them as n.b.c. weeknights at seven eastern need to find me on twitter with kings things i'll see you next time. i know c.n.n. the m s n b c news have taken some not slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's close and for the truth and might think. it's because one whole attention and the mainstream media works side by side the joke is actually on we're. going to get.

at our team we have a different brain. because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not how. you guys talk to the jokes i will hand over the stuff that i've got. well. it's technology innovation all the least of melanin still around russia we've got the future covered. we're not psyched to active camps at long tunnel where patients are forced to the

months after announcing their strike never turned the world's attention to the place that some jobs gulag of arts minds. have you felt sad or depressed for the average us big song lyric or posted a frowny face is your status update well if you've ever expressed any sort of feelings of melancholy on social media then you're a prime candidate for a new product called government surveillance c a new program funded by the national institutes of health is using twitter to spy on the mentally ill for a whole population level depression monitoring yes that's right computerized algorithms alone will be separating the crazy from the same if you don't want to take part in this exciting new study too bad you don't have a choice.