so i began you know and this is breaking the set so it seems senator dianne feinstein had a change of heart this week and she went from being a cheerleader for the n.s.a. to calling for a top to bottom review of the agency in the wake of the spying on allies leak and just yesterday feinstein put forth a bill that will lead to the reform the spy agency surveillance practices that then i read the fine print the bill basically leaves the bulk metadata collection untouched and codified as the practice is already put in place. well they need senator nice three sixty on that one looks like the same old diane frankenstein to me happy belated hall when everyone let's go back to set.

the bar. it was a. very hard to get. the trigger. happy ever had sex with her but they're looking. to cut cut. cut cut. cut. cut cut cut. cut. cut. so a lot has changed since the world learned about n.s.a. spying foreign leaders are outraged public protests are growing but there is one

thing that hasn't changed at all and has a spine all day every day thankfully activists here in the u.s. are also taking it to the streets at a recent rally called stop watching us unique performance done by privacy advocates ahead with tar and kristen a rant so i asked him to come on this show and perform for you. and as a break the law every day doesn't matter who you are or what you say they monitor your phone calls and e-mails anyway corrupt congress and courts paving the way here's a lesson they want you to learn some day. watch what you say they stop by on your mind record your calls for posterity commit the executive crimes with impunity they're the authorities here to keep us safe until a. it's the n.s.a. versus the constitution we the people are the ones are abusing any agency to make a new choice when we build a movement each raising up with us. for

private information misuse gagging recipients of the first amendment to the patriot act national first we lose the privacy that enables speech then we let our government expand its reach into your bank account your medical records. your browsing history. library down the street it still open the bureau threatens democracy and our rights. for the next generation for the f.b.i. reporting immigrants and mass with the citizens pay an equal price less demand for housing less tax revenue running on the vine what else do we do not take the local cops arrested and give it to take a look at what the f.b.i. itself that we start with immigrants will give the plan that already led well beyond mass deportation instead of the bureau has

a price on your head. your iris patterns the sound of your voice and national id imposed without choice there is blood on our constitution. but check it out it's still moist. agencies vs the constitution we don't people are the ones our government is abusing force anybody to make a choice the movement by each raising of. peaceful activists setting in motion predictable plot twists. shows the ruination of a country's creation you can say be patient but the bill of rights fall to pieces before our very eyes. you're supposed to. be where the end to any group. is intelligence about legal behavior the price of. informants.

and cover you're being watched by big brother right now every e-mail every call before national security our constitution probably got informants walking your. f.b.i. vs the constitution we the people are the ones our agencies are abusing we can force any government to make sure the movement by each. build a movement by each raising up. back in the day during world war one it was the f.b.i. versus free speech holding the gun hard fought constitutional rights on the palmer raids the first but not the last one forty years to the real red scare card you did a number with they were everywhere they knew what you were going to bed they prosecuted people for the. they tried to drive. no one even knows my brother. killed his own house. all the.

agencies. the director the head honcho the man claimed. that he didn't understand the agency's versus the constitution the people of the. force anybody to make. a movement by each raising our voice. your palm agency versus the people how did that manifest out of your political activism it's a creative reflection on the same kind of things i do in my day job and i feel like the audience for a policy is only so big and art and culture has a way of speaking to people spirits right in your heart rather than just your head so for me it's just a way to express with more parts of myself the same convictions that i have a chance to to indicate to my work at the bill of rights defense but i've realized that spoken word actually resonates with a lot of people more so than just you know giving them a speech or why do you think that it's oral history is one of the first kind of

ways that people participated in discourse right and the idea of there being a performative element the energy of a performance beyond the content of a lecture i think is greater than its parts especially when you get an opportunity in a live setting for a poets to have that back and forth the collaboration that kind of energy i think is even more gripping and it lends for an emotional experience that's way beyond merely because i agree you're also the executive director of the bill of rights defense committee we were one of the sponsors of the stop watching us rally that amazing rally and d.c. last weekend what do you think of the event it was amazing there were thousands of people that came out and as one would expect on civil liberties issues drew from the right and the left and to see those diverse allies standing side by side tea party influenced freshman member of congress alongside dennis right to see the art and culture there is a lot of music there are a lot of visuals to see all of that together with the very brainy reflections of c.b. n.s.a.

whistleblower swore some of the other people that spoke there was really exciting and i think that especially at this moment with the snowden leaks creating so much mounting controversy around our government's domestic surveillance practices and then coming in the immediate. wake of the rally where these bills coming out of congress the usa freedom act and i'll call it the n.s.a. entrenchment act from senator feinstein you know we're seeing the institutions respond. and that of course makes it all the more compelling and exciting it was so incredible i think years ago you would never see people in the street protesting the patriot act so it's amazing to see people out of their computers into the public sphere demanding to repeal the patriot act stop warranted blanket spying with the n.s.a. it was really really amazing and you mentioned the art music and that was one of the most captivating things i think the incredible unification with the signs just incredible you know everything that we're looking at here is so beautiful you know i mean all the all that materials and of course the bands you perform there why did

choose to incorporate this into the rally to make sure that it resonates beyond the people who understand the value of privacy social movements in our country have always been rooted in culture beyond policy and so that was the idea with the bands was to speak to different folks who might not necessarily care as much about the n.s.a. but like to hear a good beat and the more different kinds of genres the movement can cover and how the broader its reach to the american people and ultimately what we're talking about here the struggle around domestic surveillance and constitutional rights this is a battle for democracy against our nation's intelligence agencies and if we confine ourselves to blogs and newspapers we will lose if it ends up being at dinner tables and on street corners and in classrooms and everywhere that's what we would love to i was also just like you would have fun you can go out and have fun have a great time here great music amazing art and have a serious political message behind it we know that there are five hundred seventy five thousand but titian's delivered those huge boxes right to congress has there

been any any response from the petitions that petitions were delivered to congress and sensenbrenner the authors of the patriot act originally introduced a bill that would basically curtail some of the worst abuses under a piece of legislation and granted they were working on that bill well before the petitions went to congress but i do think of the introduction of the usa freedom. very direct response to the mobilization to the petition the lobby day that was part of it and the sustained clamor that's been coming from all sides of the political spectrum from every region of the country and what do you think about dianne feinstein three sixty degree turn of first you know here she's been the main lobby is behind by and then she goes out and says no now she's coming out kind of credit card if i call these illegal practices her bill is a red herring you know it's not at all a solution to any of the abuses it really is a way to entrench them while painting of the reforms on the ice expected to some

extent from senator feinstein because she has been so lax in her capacity as chair of the senate intelligence committee essentially abdicating the committee's oversight role to rein in the abuses of the intelligence agencies that's useful to remember where the senate intel committee started it was the church committee in the one nine hundred seventy s. the last time congress bothered to take a hard look at our nation's intelligence agencies they found what the u.s. senate described as a sophisticated vigilante operation aimed squarely at suppressing the legitimate exercise of first amendment rights of speech in association that committee grew out of that investigation only now to have been co-opted by the agencies it's supposed to be overseeing sounds totally legitimate you know you were telling me before how people are fighting back on the state level the bill of rights offends me is actually participating in that facilitating that tell me more about how people can fight this there are a lot of different ways that dragnet surveillance happens it's not just the n.s.a. and the internet it's also your local sheriff's department flying an aerial drone over your city it's also your local police department working with the t.h.s. funded fusion center to collect intelligence information about people's

associations absence any suspicion of crime those are actionable policies that you don't need congress to do anything about you can fix those in your city councils in your state legislatures you know earlier this year we helped get a bill through the state legislature of texas signed by the governor to restrict surveillance drones we've gotten bills through city councils to restrict the use of fusion centers and intelligence collection these opportunities are available to anyone. anybody anywhere and the work we do at the bill of rights defense committee is about coaching working with those local coalitions to help secure bill of rights protections where you live excellent way we cannot depend on the top down for a level where they go from the grassroots bottom up from our cities and local representatives. executor of the bill of the bill of rights defense committee activists poet thank you so much for coming on next having me out of it. still ahead i'll talk to l. ron hubbard's great grandson about scientology stick around wealthy british. tirelessly.

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play. a pleasure to have you with us here today. but. according to pew research center eighty four percent of the world's people identify with a religion many of these faiths have stood the test of time and are rooted in centuries old historical tradition however one very prominent religion was created just sixty years ago yes i'm talking about scientology founded by none other than science

fiction writer ron hubbard but not every member of the hubbard family is a member of the church his great grandson jamie the wolf is actually one of the most outspoken critics of what he calls a cult. my family written out of existence and this disciple will never know the legacy of lies that i still carry in my last name the wall a cover story so protect us from my great grandfather's true children the army of empty who dream me and train stations within the meter and a personality test and they asked me if i had ever heard of l. ron hubbard. jamie joined me earlier to talk about all things scientology. almost actually oddly one of my greatest inspirations when i was a kid because he was a writer and he was a science fiction writer and even as

a young kid i was given a lot of his books for christmas and stuff like that of his volumes and of mission earth in particular and as a little kid i was like this guy's a bad ass you know he has all these covers of guys a machine guns in laser guns and you know rocket ships and and it was i grew up that is christian hilariously enough and i actually had to learn who all ron hubbard really was and what else he wrote besides science fiction in a book a pastor gave me about cults specifically and that was what started a larger conversation because in my family he was is literally something we didn't talk about so he was my great grandfather his first son was l. ron hubbard jr who was my grandfather and his first child was my mother so i was the oldest child i was the oldest grandchild and. i mean it was just something that nobody ever wanted to discuss and also when i was a kid that l. ron jr was also actively battling against his father should basically is dying days

so it was something that we just didn't bring up in the house because it was constant and current and you know even now some of my family won't talk about it and actually one of the last people that's absolutely fascinating you know you're one of the most outspoken critics of scientology according to village voice here a list that actually at number twenty two out of twenty five people are crippling it i'm told you are you are you said they are not higher on that list i do not want to be higher on that list that is. it's a little scary to even be on that list i won't lie i magine it you know a little scientology compounds everywhere that they have played dicey is on every single person they're like all right what are we doing about number twenty four talk of the backlash you've incurred i mean i know that you're joking around right now but really i'm sure that there have been i mean we tried to cover story here and we received you know the call from the from the church telling us not to run

the story i mean what what sort of experiences have you had any threats at all from the church for speaking out today i mean the first the very first time i spoke out about about him was in one thousand nine hundred nine and i did a performance about in a cafe at a show that i just started and culture rats without regrets and it was a show that was about just it was like this just kind of long diatribe about scientology and it's like cults in my family and everything is the first time i really publicly said anything about it in particular and it went online and within days that they were out of my house they tracked me down pretty sure that they tap my phone so i was being followed everywhere i went and so i mean they they basically come after you like some kind of pseudo crazy. mafia i think that they don't want to bring more attention to just like the whole general that side of my family and that story because it's

a little embarrassed seem to have the same name sake as your general idea t. . or great founder and leader actively warring against scientology for his entire life as well i mean the story of l. ron jr is a pretty nasty and embarrassing one because he used to be a member of the cult as well actually helped write a lot of the intro calls that dealt with critics and strong arm tactics so he was well aware of how they were going to execute these tax sick and impression because junior also helped write him as well why do you think our religion and invented by a science fiction writer sixty years ago i mean this is recent history has become so wildly popular i mean we know that you need our machines part of the initiation i took one of those tests myself what is it about that has to long with dianetics that's sucks people in the church i think it's actually what what it's scientology is actually a very brilliant form of brainwashing one because it's very it's very process

of the e meter and so on for it's really electrified hypnosis you're being guided along this hypnotic state that is causing you to regress into your past lives which also has this sort of overall overarching like kind of paranoid corporate structure to it where you're trying to unlock your brain in the guidance somebody else who has their own purposes you don't see your results so it's like you're holding this and it's running an electrical current through you while you're born sort of being hypnotized in this process and whatever they're writing down you don't get to see they only are secrets right this is not a client attorney privilege or any kind of psychiatric relationship this is information that they just. oh and they can put in a filing cabinet and they can and will use it against you later and as you progress up this is what they call the bridge which if you just turn it on its side it's

really just clearly a pyramid pyramid scam really where you going towards o.t. level eight. and higher which is basically at the point is supposed to be a superhuman trans you know continental interdimensional being at that point and that's where tom cruise is supposed to be that's where john travolta is supposed to be at but you're always moving up on this bridge and if you express doubts then they can reverse you on this bridge you have to take these classes over again you have to pay for it again so this is kind of a bizarre like internal structure that has this internal societal pressure upon you and has this paranoia and you start to believe that this machine can read your very thoughts and you can get sec checked which is like this whole brutal sort of interrogation that they'll force you through and so there's this entire climate of fear that surrounds all of it and yet the fact that a side fire writer can suddenly turn around from writing fiction and then say oh

now i'm i made new brain new scientific discoveries that will change the world overnight i was very little in the form of that events are case studies is rather stunning and makes sense in the time and climate that it came about you know in the fifty's in the early sixty's and this is kind of viewed as like an exciting new revolutionary innovative science you know at this point it becomes laughable when you look at a lot of its secrets revealed like o.t. level three and xenu and the evil galactic warlord and the alien souls that possess your body but mind you in the seventies nobody knew that nobody had the internet this is stuff that was you had to earn your way too you had to pay to brainwash yourself i want to hear all of this talk about the end you know people joining and becoming indebted and the financial manipulation i guess. from people who aren't millionaires right well i think one one of the reasons why celebrities become

ensnared today is it is certain way the whole sort of belief system is not specific in nature you're basically on a path to become a god like being you know the whole idea is this is about you that you yourself are a god like being inhabiting the shell you know it isn't that l. ron is god l. ron is basically like a buddha or like a wise the wise is scientist that has given us this technology that is unlock this and it was still view that l. ron was you know a wise a god like being inhabiting this flesh shell which happened to be of portly redheaded chain smoking in. middle aged man on a boat but past that is that there's a narcissism of it too it's definitely in the secrets the fact that they are in your secrets they can absolutely use those against you they absolutely will three i think that some people have to realize that it's embarrassing to go that far this

pyramid. and start to realize how absurd it actually is and i think that that's personally humiliating because the thing is is that and if there are scientologists listening feel free to tune in or turn up your volume is that i don't have particularly a problem with the low level scientologists because a lot of these are are smart productive people they have to have some sense of a career in order to be able to even pay for these services that specifically the people they target they target people who have money that have careers that have good professional standing it's just that the problem is that l. ron was literally free styling the whole thing from the k. so as it goes further it becomes more and more innately absurd and more and more explicitly in. saying you know when you get the evil galactic war lords in and the dead alien parasites that are clinging to your very body well that point becomes

laughable but you don't know about that for a long time which is why the critics and the members who have left start screaming xenu right away because that's ultimately where it's going right is that you know if i hand you a bible you can read the book of revelations in the first five minutes you don't have to earn your way pay your way and unlock each new chapter of the bible it's all given it once and i think that's the point is that why should we trust an organization and present any religion institutionalized religion but especially one that makes me paying to get these secrets of god or whatever you know and their interpretation of god is right i wanted to move on because we're almost out of time jamie but i can't help but ask i mean there have been a number of mysterious deaths associated with the church most notably lisa macpherson who was held for seventeen days by members before he died i mean do you think that the church is also covering up more serious crimes like blackmail intentionally murder there have been many statements that people have said that

murder has has certainly been on the menu in dealing with critics let's say that is what i heard someone recently who i talked to who is a very high level defector and leave their identity secret for the moment they made a terrifying point to me they said jonestown it was in nome the people's temple right and jim jones wasn't known for suicides and murder before jonestown right that was simply when you pushed against the wall they came back firing and everybody died and he said who's to say that scientology can and in the same way i mean right now they're getting rocked with all kinds of allegations of all kinds of lawsuits they have high level people who are leaving the church their number two and three people just left recently in the last decade you have tony or. village voice is blasting and every day your show's taken swings and i'm not even having me on and that's the thing is that how far is it going to go because it this point you

have called a small colt that started as dwindling membership but in this century like it was part of the largest domestic case espionage on its own government our united states government and that's factual that happen iran's wife went to jail for it operations no way and i mean the fact that most americans aren't even aware of how dangerous scientology has been and their critics the fact that i know i put myself in danger every time i even talk about it and anybody who's dealt with the cult knows how dangerous that they truly are i mean i definitely have a sense that the empire is showing its cracks and it's starting to fall apart because when you don't have any more secrets to sell when are your secrets are online how are you going to sell them anymore and then what are you going to do once the whole temples on fire amazing have you i mean the wall spoken word poet

performer artist i need to get on again doesn't talk about your work and really honestly to you thanks so much thanks thanks. guys that's the show tonight thanks for watching have an awesome weekend. wealthy british. sometimes that's right let's go right on out of. the.

market why not. come to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's cancer for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to conjure reports on our. last time as a new alert animation scripts scare me a little bit. there is breaking news tonight and we are continuing to follow the breaking news. alexander's family cry tears of joy at it great things out there that there had to be adequate regard in a court of law found alive there's a story made for a movie is playing out in real life.

but. the would like to do the job did you know the price is the only industry specifically mention in the constitution and. that's because a free and open prize is critical to our democracy should recall this. role i'm. going to go on i'm sorry and on this show we reveal the picture of what's actually going on we go beyond identifying the problem to try rational debate a real discussion critical issues facing america for ready to join the movement then welcome to the big picture. now on tell harben in washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture.