it's like to adopt a camp at guantanamo where patients are forced that. are strike never turn the world's attention to the police and that's something a gulag of our time. election two thousand and thirteen chris christie wins big in jersey the rest of the g.o.p. falls short what are republicans need to do the fix the party before twenty sixteen will be conservative radio talk show host dana loesch the ruben who were born and former george w. bush spokesperson reed dickens helping us figure it all out coming up next on politicking with larry king.

live politicking on larry king was tuesday's election a sign of what's to come and twenty sixteen joining us from washington is political senior washington correspondent and a prominent ana was it a sign of what's going to happen in twenty sixteen and i'm sure we get call it out of bel air it. certainly is going to be interesting to have three papers here we are going to be reaching here. in writing to the right and you live to take it all is there you like a bit now the governor of virginia and then to new jersey and yet there it really got very very you were watching closely we had a spare he certainly was wearing the same phrase there hearing your trying to appeal to democrats republicans to ever you want him to change either how are the national republican party to deal with our economy is it. obamacare became an issue in the village in your race did that help the president do you think that result. i

actually think this is going to be something to watch today we were talking to republicans all day long and they said they actually quite as obama care in our. able to really tighten the raise in the last couple of weeks and he really was hammering on obamacare as this was what was wrong and certainly when you talk to operatives it is i mean they plan on continuing to hammer well and that is that at levels that it's not and then they're going to turn away from at all what do you make of the result in alabama's first district where bradley birth thought that he was going to lose to the conservative establishment. establish what was going to be candidate dean young was challenging him and he got beat by five percent what do you make of that i think when you look at that race it is something that we've been focusing a lot right there is division within the republican party you have the tea party wing and you have a business or the establishment republican and this was that first test case scenario where you had mr brand riding with the back of the chamber of commerce and

was able to eke out a win which is certainly something we're hearing a business community is going to look to and point to what asking donors to get into other races to kind of not have maybe as many tea party republicans elected to congress what's the overview than for twenty sixteen or is it too early to tell well certainly chris christie it's not your immediate sell you were looking at last night as one of the right spots certainly going to nationally bought into that national figure even more so than he was before but you know you don't know how terry mcauliffe went it was a very close copy of the clinton's so we're already starting it's thirteen but we're already looking into election day twenty sixteen with this split in the republican party logically can christie win the nomination. it is going to be near interesting to see exactly how he tries to break that needle he certainly already has started to try to turn the narrative in the mire a couple. again he did sit down with some of our reporters and other reporters that

were in new jersey on election day that's just the narrative of the media because he was able to work with obama after. sandy that that was what came out of it and he is truly a conservative i imagine that he's going to start really hammering that in the months to come articulately and yet the republican governors association those that failed web site for obama get have the chance to straighten out before any of this if this straightens out will not go away. it is going to be something to watch certainly one of the things that the new cycle al is you know has changed so dramatically so the shutdown politics was big you know three weeks ago with everyone was you know the democrats were saying this is going to be how we're going to win the new term election and it really didn't play as big as maybe some people had thought but obamacare is something that we're publicans are seizing on right we're having hearings on the hill and secretary sebelius has been up there it is still in the hot seat so as i think republicans are going to try to use this as

long as absolutely possible to keep it as an issue for twenty fourteen and one of the house which is in two thousand and fourteen is significant change there it's going to be very hard for democrats to pick up a significant amount of seeds you know the districts are sewed gerrymandered are so kind of cut towards the republicans that you know in terms of who they're going to be able to pick up those races we're looking at you know that nancy pelosi trying to try to pick up a hand will be lucky if you because that more than where is it you know house republicans are really going to be more going to be the narrative in the next couple of months of these primaries are they are going to be the tea party you know anti-establishment candidates are they going to beat al maybe more incumbent long term washington establishment republicans things and an a bomb of politico see the senior washington correspondent joining me here in los angeles is republican strategist reed victims who served as white house assist the jury for george w. bush and they root. host of the rubin report on the young turks network also

joining us via skype from st louis conservative radio talk show host dana loesch who is also a contributor to the blaze are looking back to tuesday what's your overview read first of all at the top of the ticket unless you're within the margin of error i don't think parties win elections when you're talking about governors and presidents at the top of the ticket i think it's candidates you know good i think a good candidate with bad ideas will beat a bad candidate with good ideas every single time. i think if you look at twenty sixteen it's going to come down to how good of candidates each party fields i don't think it will have anything to do with chris christie or terry mcauliffe really i don't what do you think dave well it's funny that immediately we started talking about twenty sixteen i mean that was the thing christie got in and everybody everybody in news immediately this is about twenty sixteen i disagree actually i think this is this was his moment if you watched his acceptance speech the whole the whole thing was about two thousand and sixteen it was all about this new

america we're going to have and i'm a jersey guy and i'm going to be more moderate and yet i am conservative and i think a lot of the social issues that the republicans need to get away from say gay rights for example they're going to be gone by two thousand and sixteen the waves come already and once they can get away from that then he does become a truly viable candidate dana loesch i know you're one of the founders of the tea party you've been with us when we were at c.n.n. how do you view this christie story. larry i always remember a back during the era of the last campaign everybody was really excited about jon huntsman too but that didn't pan out very well chris christie is a formidable contender for twenty sixteen but the republican party also has a really good bench coming out as well probably one of the best benches that they've had in quite some time so there's still a lot of room nothing said i mean we're still several years off a lot of things can happen and what necessarily what works in new jersey may not necessarily translate across the rest of the united states we're going to be talking to individuals who are kind of tired of always getting their republicans

from the east coast so if that's something that can be overcome and if there are a lot of a lot of other issues including some energy policies and other things that christie can overcome that there is something that's working in his favor larry and that is he's able to put into words that which really resonates with a lot of americans so he does score on that one. let me let me tell you this right now chris christie i think will be the rudy giuliani of twenty sixteen from from two thousand and eight and here's why rudy giuliani was thirty seven percent in the national polls and i remember telling you in two thousand and eight there is no national primary it once he leaves new york in the coast he'll go from being this cool you know guy to the first time you drop an f. bomb in a bible study in georgia your primary is over so i think chris christie is cool to the coastal elites and i think he's fun to the media because he doesn't use talking points but i don't think he's got what it takes to do a republican primary day michael reagan tweeted last night congratulations to

christie republicans can learn from this conservative moderate women blacks and asians it's a reagan coalition you see christie following the reagan ford yeah absolutely i mean that that's the move that's the move and i agree with dana that the next crop the twenty sixteen crop is going to be much stronger i mean if we look back now to the crap that ran against i mean it has to be but by default it has to be but really what a bunch of clowns really we had there between michele bachmann and i mean it was just this epic loser fest that everybody took the lead for a little while and then they get well romney and that was it but absolutely if christie goes the reagan route that's the way to go but again i'm sort of i'm hesitant to talk too much about twenty sixteen when the election was just yesterday in two thousand and thirteen i think that's what it is right i think the republican party right now just to speak on a macro level has three fundamental problems right now one is ideological purity george w. bush said just the other night in ohio you don't have to be here or you win.

ideological purity you know you would think listening to some on the right ted cruz you know you think that they're burning bibles right now during the budget debate and i think that's a flaw in the second problem we have as a party is bad candidates in zero eight i mean twenty twelve i mean it he said as a clown fast and i would agree and then the third issue is. tone deafness i mean ted cruz on the senate floor frankly makes your changed my party registration so i think you have to step back and say we're going to be ideologically pure are we going to be competitive dana i would imagine you're an admirer of senator cruz i do i do like ted cruz i don't think it's any illogically if you were to just say look we want limited government and just all responsibility social issues is something i'm completely i'm interested in talking about as i think cruz and a lot of other folks are because we have some serious economic issues that are going to have way more intact on immediate and future generations than anything social i mean it's kind of like the eighty twenty rule i think that senator cruz and a lot of other individuals approach it on that as well but to kind of look at it you

know looking back at two thousand and twelve candidates i don't necessarily agree that everybody was a clown show either i or now that i would necessarily use that burbage or the adjective to describe it but i do think that we had some we had some decent candidates but we had horrible messaging if anything was a clown show it's the messaging on the right conservatives and republicans fail to look at political idiology and they fail to look at the as a product which is how it should be present that instead they keep pulling out charts and graphs and they get very wonky on it and it's more a net that's what people don't look at and they don't go out into the weeds like that and that's one thing where democrats always pass them on one of the things that i think chris christie while he's going to have a tough sell with some of his policy in new jersey he at least as get to an extent ted cruz gets to an extent but what the really the big picture of this at this time in twenty sixteen race is going to be as two things how well the focus is going to be on obamacare which should be the focus going forward from here on out we saw with all of the exit polling with this last election just israel action obamacare

failed in the fall and secondly is there going to be this divide on the right is it going to be have a christie cruz deathmatch political deathmatch to the end will say. good observation we'll take a break and we'll talk about virginia when we come back. well. technology innovation all the developments around russia. the future are covered. it's.

a problem it was a terrible a problem very hard to take a problem to get along here a lot of that has sat with me playing let's play a. little i'm playing. well i'm. a.

politicking with reed dickens day ruben and dana loesch by the way next week former vice president dick cheney will be our special guest politicking or the virginia race what happened there. so i think terry mcauliffe is a formidable candidate i think he's relentless he's his i think problems are behind him i think the only bellwether if you're going to use that term for twenty sixteen from virginia is if you're looking for statistical anomalies if exurban a different way than expected or certain demographics and i think there's a lot of data that has to be mined before you can make any projections so i think twenty sixteen was a very good candidate beating so a candidate who didn't have a shot well mcauliffe won so it's good for the democrats and throws al you but it was way closer than they thought it also shows you that you know obama and hillary clinton campaigned for him so maybe having them around with everything going on with obamacare doesn't help that much and you know the thing with mcauliffe is he's

a huge money guy is the former head of the d.n.c. he's a money guy money guy money guy and the real issue in politics that everyone knows is we've got to get the money out so just having another money guy when i don't know long term is that good for the democrats i don't think so necessarily and the razor thin margin that he won by i think shows that they know what do you view how do you view virginia and virginia shows larry the difference in strategy that need to grow public and switched up their hand towards the end of the race because there for awhile mcauliffe was leading by double digits and then when he had well that would be enforceable kerik incredible care act on the website troubles all of that began to hit the press and people began seeing in real time as it hit their paychecks and as they got their insurance cancellations in the mail that began to really hurt mcauliffe in fact when the president was there campaigning for hand he didn't even bring up the affordable care act he didn't mention health care and when cuccinelli finally started when his team finally started fighting that narrative head on that's when mcauliffe started driving in the polls look at all of the money

. they spent a democrat stand in the race in virginia too when only by what should do something thousand votes and what i call the fake libertarian candidate who was for expanding medicaid and raising taxes she did he only got seven percent of the vote and i don't even know about was enough to really have such a huge impact that he ended up sucking some of those votes away from a column so it shows the strategy if anything it was a bellwether on the affordable care act and it was about whether or on a republican strategy going forward. was to burn they thought he would lose mr young who was a tea party stronger strong candidate. five percent. so again i was not going to endorse burn i think. people who were watching from afar were surprised i think people on the ground were less surprised going back to how this all serves as a bellwether if you really look at this i'm not a believer that poll that opinion changes by double digits in a short amount of time i think that's more of

a flaw in our ability to survey and poll and that's a flaw in self report i think it's a little bit of a danger when you win by fifty thousand votes like mcauliffe did or you have a election like this i don't think opinion sways over obamacare in the news i think it just exposes that we still dave a very divided country we are very divided but not as a divine light at the end of it all you see a light at the end i don't think we're truly as divided as they want us to be i mean they want us to be divided so that the fox people are screaming on one side and the m s n b c people are screaming on the other side and then this is the on line world is where we can actually have some decent honest discussion about it i think most people actually do want government to take it back a tone i was think they want lower taxes as a general rule i think they want all the social stuff i agree with dana the social stuff should be out the window for the next election let's just get past you know basic things related to gay rights and women's rights and things like that so they want us to be in a perpetual state of crazy. so we vote in one guy then we vote in the opposite guy

and then we just keep doing it again and again but i think there's room for something else i don't know what the answer to the question is but i think there's some room for they know you that optimistic now politics is not is about division larry it's what makes it fun it's like the modern day gladiators that's what all of it is and it and really you know when you consider how nasty elections used to be back in the days in the rubble after the revolution in the days of thomas jefferson and john adams we've got a lot nicer nobody's dueling anymore no one's calling anyone a hermaphrodite like person and adams exchanged in a little newspaper quip so we've really come a long way but ultimately you know there if there is division to speak of it's going to actually be enter a party division and not just relating to republicans but also democrats as well because you have a lot of purple state folks who are going to be coming up for reelection you had nate silver in the new york times say that the senate is going to be a statistical toss up at this point which it wasn't so certain just a couple of years ago so you have basically two different parties who are going to decide how to reconcile and then you have

a course the libertarian movement which is kind of coming into its own not just as a third party but also within the g.o.p. so it's going to be very interesting there's always going to be division as there should be because when ideas compete people when some of the bases obamacare is the law yes they're going to survive so this in my opinion major legislative reform is not going to stick anymore go back to no child left behind another sounds like a stretch but if you go back to no child left behind it was supposed to be sweeping reform permanently changing and within a few years it was rewritten within a few years it was overturned and now it's complete barely exist other than accountability measures which was the goal ironically i think obamacare is over the long term not going to stick i don't think you're going to see f.d.r. type reform where you are generational change because the wedges over medicare there's not enough of consensus in congress for there to be permanent reform and frankly i don't think enough there's too much dysfunctional parts of it will stick it i think parts of it will stick or do you think why don't they go bomb

a cares. going anywhere if they can get the web site gone which remains to be seen but. whether i think this is done sort of irreparable damage to the president actually i think this endless quote that we've seen this week about if you like your health care you can keep it period and then you know a few days ago the if now for the first time people are really seeing a sort of really a flat out lie and i know everyone's trying to spin it as this what it was in a direct lie or series of people didn't quite tell him but for the first time he really sounds like every other politician and then when you add on the things like the n.s.a. that we're having a real trust issue with government and he still is the president for the next over here and and he's a lame duck so he has a lot of work to do just to just to keep his legacy intact for the name of guns do want health care they believe they are entitled to health care. i think everyone wants real health care reform larry and next something that i know that i would like to see but i want to see some more competition i would like to see some tort reform i want to see some portability there's so many different things that we

could do with this is this is targeting insurance i don't know of anyone who says well let's say let's improve health care let's improve treatment by adding one hundred thousand i.r.s. agents on the government payroll that doesn't really do anything all of the regulations it's just red tape but not people want real reforms this unfortunately isn't it but however and we were talking about whether it would ever kind of go away i don't know that it's ever going to be repealed because when you have a lot of people who are qualifying for medicaid and getting on medicaid you're going to have two parties who are not going to want to touch that because they're going to be angering a voting block so i don't know it's kind of a wait and see period but if we delay it you're going to have three over three million americans now that aren't are going to be just swinging out there and they either they're not going to have any health insurance at all whatsoever so it's kind of it's a it's a huge problem this is a train track older than the panel i go back to the moderated debate in nineteen sixty two between senator uber humphrey. and this was the president of the may and debate was on medicare and it was a wild. it was a very just

a baby in miami but there was an enormous pressure against medicare i mean it was going wild against medicare there its biggest supporter medicare is locked in so you might be wrong i've been wrong before once or twice but i will say obama was not going to ultimately be hillary clinton so i think if you look at obamacare trying to reform health care without reforming tort reform without some fundamental fixes to the system what you end up doing is you're you're punishing success you're rewarding it's obama if anything is an anti-capitalist and i wouldn't there's a lot of things that i wouldn't say he's done a decent job but i think the three am phone calls he's handled pretty well national security council he's handled pretty well in terms of the general direction of the country though he fundamentally believes that you have to punish people who are successful to reward people who aren't and instead of the rising tide lifting all boats you share that view well i also think that the only way you can get anything passed now is through this disastrous process the process itself of when obamacare

passed remember it was going to be on c.-span everyone was going to see everything it's going to be open and streamed online and i know that happened and know the way everything so every day i knew i kicked into place now the website is in a secure is it was supposed to be and they still pushed it through so i think every big change something like obamacare the way our government works is always going to be a disaster danishes sebelius leaves oh absolutely i think kathleen sebelius is she's the health and human services secretary i mean the box has to stop with someone we can't have beef a name to bureaucrats being blamed all the time nice hearings people especially after the i.r.s. stuff but lois lerner and we had fast and furious and guys that no one has been held accountable and this is a president who famously reiterated that the buck stops with him and the buck has to stop and many months later the buck went out the door and around the corner and i got a drink that's going to but i have to say that for the president who funded. and he

believes that the federal government you know can create value i think he's doing a commercial for the private sector right now his campaign ran flawlessly it was amazing it had talented people it was disciplined and then this is like a saturday night live spoof of government right and so i think this has been a little bit of an ironic twist for the president who believes the federal government he remains immensely more popular than congress and the republicans right but although they just said that his approval rating is now thirty nine percent anyone could be congress's approval rating right probably at like seven percent and that's what is' and that's too high right now and as the as someone slightly more on the left of this panel at least you know i do think this is exposed a major flaw in what obama's done he hasn't been responsible for anything so whether you think benghazi is a scandal or not or the i.r.s. is a scandal or not all these things no one gets fired for anything so of course sebelius has to go somebody has to get fired at some point because he says the buck stops with me he's not going to walk away looking ahead to two thousand and sixteen the way this sounds you would think the republicans would clearly have an advantage yet

at the same done that obama's so weak the republicans are split right. exactly well the republicans are more dangerous to other republicans than democrats are dangerous to republicans that's something that we saw in two thousand and eight we saw in two thousand and twelve i really hope larry that it doesn't take a third election for the party to learn this lesson and for them to get out of their own way as long as they keep the focus on for instance on obamacare as long as they keep putting into words what average americans are feeling you can talk about benghazi all day long but unless we boil it down to some quick talking points it's not going to work but there's one thing that you can't take people out on ch it's their paycheck and their insurance and that's where the message needs to stay nothing bridges divides or fuels wombs like the smell of the west wing and when you throw it out of the white house for eight years george bush in two thousand and you know when you've been out of the white house for eight years it tends to coalesce a party and i think if you can put a good candidate in place in the party i think the party will be ready to propose the best so if you were to be hillary clinton versus jeb bush it's not my proposal

that's a fact that hillary clinton versus jeb bush would be a titanic clash because it would be so it would be substantive from a policy standpoint that would be there would be exciting from a political standpoint i think i think it would be an absolute nightmare for america although i agree with that reason terms of the movie quality of it get great in t.v. ratings and all that but it would be a nightmare you know we left england a long time ago because we don't want to live under a king we already had one clinton we've already had two bush but that's it they let you know when is mostly a going to run i mean that's what this is all leading that's an easy media narrative the voters what it's worth how many people in your family have great president but they're not sure that that is the truth is there's no sort of this is i that i don't have to have a life of considering jeb bush so i seen jeb bush speaking number of times and bush has zero likability jenna bush against hillary clinton that's going to be i lived through that when i was a teenager in the ninety's i don't want to relive their bush and clinton machine fighting it out already will say yes i'm going to throw this out there what about

elizabeth warren everyone so certain that hillary clinton is going to be running no one's talking about the dark horse coming from massachusetts a lot. warneke warren has been gaining some supporters up around up there in the northeast i just got to really quickly i think it's an intellectually lazy narrative to say oh we don't want another bush clinton because they're the two c. word a sort of leticia and they're the two smartest we have talk radio you know the two smartest and the two most politically on that note we've just begun to fight through all of my guests and for my viewers out there i want to hear from you join the conversation on my facebook page and share your thoughts on twitter by tweeting at kings things musingly politicking at state don't forget next week dick cheney that's all for this week's politicking. i'm the bad. side but i'm big in mind.

you can do. bad. all about my and other family pick for politicians write the laws and let me. just to let. today's dying out. i was going everyone i'm having martin and this is breaking the set you're feel referring to the cia n.s.a. or f.b.i. as the intelligence community is a bit of

a misnomer well this next story is case in point to be a.c.l.u. filed a request against the f.b.i. which has actively and admittedly monitor web sites media organizations and assent groups in the years following nine eleven and they found very interesting is that the agency had violated an antiwar web sites for the minimum right by conducting surveillance by accident so how does something like this happen all the foyer requests for revealed that the f.b.i. mistakenly flagged the website as a potential threat that plan to quote hack the f.b.i. is web site a threat that antiwar dot com mind you never made what actually happened was that air garrus the web site editor had notified the f.b.i. that antiwar dot com was its self the target of a hack and was hoping the agency would help them with this problem but instead the f.b.i. accidently marked antiwar dot com as a potential cyber threat and use this as a reason a monitor of the site and create

a surveillance file on its users over the course of six years six years now you might be thinking that this is just another case of agree just unwarranted spine which it is but i think that's giving them too much credit on that note let's break the set. the piece of the problem it was terrible a military hard to take the target once again to plug the plug that never had sex with the target their lives let's call it was. just some. of the submissives lists.