out here too so we do have a bank or. more kids young kids choke on food than are killed by firearms if being armed made us safer in america we should be the safest nation on earth. were clearly not the safest. though and welcome to sophia and co i'm sophie shevardnadze it is raul is expanding its presence in the west bank despite the fact that's one of the main obstacles to peace talks prime minister benjamin netanyahu however keeps talking about his desire to find a solution to the middle east conflict but looking at the action and not the words

does israel really want peace. he's really stuck with both of those names ever share the same maps while political leaders struggle to even agree to hold talks about talks real peace is far from sight israel keeps building settlements while the palestinians keep insisting they want to all of the land but. where is the nonexistent relationship between the two neighbors taking. our guns today's our lonely and former director general of israel is foreign ministry mr lee always great to have you with us today so you did not believe netanyahu wants peace with the palestinians any peace it would with concessions so basically all speculations regarding talks and solutions involving this government is just hot air is that right. well i think karen attorney oh i would like to have peace but on his terms and he's terms i think are

acceptable to the palestinians so they would be nice most its meaning over the years everybody wants peace the question is what are you ready to sacrifice in order to achieve peace and the very little people look many people in israel and maybe also in palestine are ready to sacrifice enough in order to achieve. it so you personally you don't expect anything to happen any steps further while netanyahu in charge i don't accept to have a final solution what we used to call peace i don't accept these do it but i think everybody's busy know what is called plan b. how can we arrange the talks to fail in an agreement

really not to fail in a way that will bring violence or a lot of palestinian international activity especially in the un but to fail in an aggrieved way that the palestinians will get some think. everybody will be able to say that the talks cheve to. something for the palestinians so it is i think is what's going on at the moment personally very much against it but there are different views about it what needs to change in the knesset her needs to come to power to bring a palestinian solution a step closer. i don't think anything has to change in the knesset there is one individual that can make the difference and this is prime minister netanyahu.

is having love a very comfortable majority to move to an agreement to a partial agreement or an interim agreement to move to an agreement if he will decide to lead to such an agreement as it seems no is not ready to do it the price that he will have to pay is that broadly he will have to leave his own party the likud because in the only chord you don't have a majority for an agreement. to sigrid it with the palestinians but eric sharon did the same when he was prime minister and left the likud formed a new party it doesn't look as if little is willing to do it i don't look like everything is centered around one person right. but it happened some is because historically israelis kind of delegated though florrie t.

only issues of peace and war to the prime minister never ages really saying what do i know about the threat it's about what's going on behind the screens and i have to leave it to my prime minister when begin was prime minister and the subject to go to peace with egypt the following morning fifteen twenty percent of the public changed changed its mind and supported such a peace that included withdrew all from the sinai peninsula so if an attorney will stand up and say this is my suggestion for far a little agreement with the palestinians he will have that much or it is this this is happening i think in israel only or letters or war and peace if it will be only

the social matters then the public can. challenge the prime minister but i don't think war and peace but ben i mean that apple seems quite a phenomenon from outside because he's always been a target of criticism from both foreign and israeli press but still he keeps winning power and as we know it happens that a critically why do you think he has this much support. first to all there is no left left in israel winning the left side of the political map has been almost crashed. there is no real peace camp as we used to or today we have sent in right with a minimal. amount of left so. that the neo is positioning himself in the middle of the political map these kind of them order

it right also i think it has economic achievements the country is doing well hardly felt the international world crisis of two thousand and eight and people appreciate that way he's running the country. only economic issues it's out of building and planning to build more settlements in the west bank and east jerusalem and that's despite all the criticism of getting quoting from the united nations and the us is ignoring it actually the best tactic i think this is the said issue is story clearly. in the conflict the settlements i think when we started speaking if there is chance for peace or not and i will specifically stick with this is the reason the mold of settlements is huge and probably irreversible and. the

signal that the israeli government is sending to the palestinians to the rest of the middle east to the world by by continuing even aggressively to settle it is a very negative is signal because if low the talks with a lot. in in agreement. it will be called a peace agreement when we meet next time to talk with the palestinians in three or five who knows maybe ten years the volume of the settlements will be bigger and the chance for a palestinian state smaller so i personally. do not understand what this government is doing i know that there are a lot of pressures from the israeli right to go on settling but the price that we pay and the will pay is enormous for this first of all regarding

our international image but also if we look to be able to establish a palestinian state we will be the palestinian state it will be an israeli palestinian state a binational state so i don't understand what all the government is doing ok but what can be done about a settlement israel and saved are cannot be another gaza solution which has an immense dismantled so what's the way out first of all we had to freeze in the past but the issue of the settlements is directly connected to issue a for make off the agreement if an attorney oh whoops to reach peace with the palestinians defer think he personally has to say is let's stop settling because the more settlements we have the more difficult it is to reach an agreement so first he should be there were stopping it don't forget that prime minister sharon

when he decided to go out to for gaza in the north of the west bank removed the settlements removed them and said no we shouldn't be that. he's not doing it. first of all it doesn't look just enough to stand against the pressures of the right but even more worrying it looks as if he's a person. only. so. this is really may. be musing over the settlements well talking about the pressure of the right the jewish orthodox population sometimes has the most extreme far right use very hard had it self-righteous in many ways and that behavior can actually aggravate other nations let all the palestinians but it does seem like the government is benefiting from such behavior because who else would live in a settlements if not people like that right. and there is also

some. economic spic to eat then i would say that may be if. maybe even more of the settlers moved to the settlements because of economic reasons because they could get better housing cheaper in the settlements the government to eat so look all the settlers are ideologic but when you speak on this little be on the right is that these threatening to topple the government if the settlements are being stopped. if an attorney would face them and say i'm stopping he would have to change the correlation this is possible he has players outside the quali sure who are ready to join any any time if he moves still would be east like the label party so i think it's

it's up to him because he can he can resist these pushes the feet will decide to do it all right after the break what israel's interest in syria iran should astrologist tehran's new negotiations town stay with us. and obviously more for the latest because it's pink. women wanting to avoid great thing really i counsel are having teams that. can assist on that island. away from once again it's the fear factor for women definitely the target of the gun

lobby and one you don't want to kill them not one to kill anybody but if somebody were he would just pick her. i'm noticing more and more if that's really scary marketing tactics which implies that women have some sort of moral obligation guns to protect their family and young girls shoot out here too so we do have a pink or. more kids young kids choke on food than are killed by firearms if being armed made us safer in america we should be the safest nation on earth were clearly not the safest.

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welcome back to the show and our guest alan the former director general of foreign ministry so good to have you back at first there is very little interest among israelis towards how the palestinians leave for a peace solution is that because they're constantly bombarded by the media the level of threats but is there no human dimension being put across. it's a good question. here it is connected of course the fake that the palestinians are. now their enemy they're not only presented as their enemy as you know over the years we had two intifadas each of them lasted several years of very violent especially the second one with about two hundred fifty suicide attacks a lot of israeli casualties we still have missiles from time to time comic form.

it's look it would not be fair to say that somebody is manipulating it and presenting the palestinians as the enemy the palestinians the enemy one of the enemies of israel so it's very difficult for part of the public to to sympathize with the difficult conditions there especially in gaza or any in the west bank. however i think there are many many israelis there's of thousands maybe hundreds of thousands if that care about teeth that are in touch with palestinians and support them through their civil society also there is a responsibility of the israeli government because we're they'll keep bias to to see to eat there the conditions will be bearable and we are passing money

that we collected the excess so there is some equal because even always gaza not only with the west bank but the truth is the majority of the public sees the palestinians as enemies a lot of them sitting in jail for terror attacks against israel even for murdering israelis it's difficult for the ever achieves wally. who doesn't see the long to. the political issues in front of him he sees the daily situation he sees the past difficult for him to like the palestinians so let me ask you a question as i would ask an average israeli do you think something should be changed about how palestinians are portrayed or it's a fair portrayal i'll give you a personal view i think. and it's not a secret that there is a basic mistake in the israeli approach to the peace process and the peace

process is being based order the balance of power between us and the palestinians we are by far much stronger than the palestinians in every possible dime and should . call all the stake technology they can military. and the infrastructure they get is no mous when you come to a peace agreement between six million jews who live here and five million palestinians one in our four million of them israelis you have to change their approach you can look base it on the balance of power because if you base it on the balance of power we really can do everything we won't because we bring that x. we bring the aircraft we force them to do what we want them to do but this is look

peace differently look you will not achieve justice in such a way so i will make a switch and change the f.t. tube look at the historic circumstances the graphic circumstances a little to base the talks all the fact that we are strong and weak but if you. look at the palestinians themselves they don't look very politically united either why is that i mean the hand of israel again or a palestinian lack of engagement it's a tragedy what's happening to them this rift between the fatah and hamas is look only. dividing them almost half in kind of power lies inc there it's also effecting the easily position because these were only say let's say we have an agreement with. the can define them or do

it side will double the wrist will that vote to come us will that both gaza so why do we know if we do a live peace with the whole. people it's a big problem it's an additional problem that the problems that we had in the past when we were negotiating with them. i want to touch upon another huge topic from is route iran iran on one hand could be getting closer to its new clericals on the other they have shown a willingness to negotiate israeli sort of stuck in its own position with calls for a strike following largely on deaf ears how uncomfortable is the situation. here we come back to bend to mean attorney i'll. go easy sure that if they iranian is quieter and the torment bump it's the end of the state of peace with it and this is an approach he's preaching for in fifteen years or maybe even more

and this is how we see these things he compares it to the situation of the jewish people during the holocaust and there he all the time speaks about it and effects public opinion on this issue in. the feeling is although every year we say that next year they run eons will have the bomb the feeling is that now it's not a matter of years it's a matter of months or maybe even weeks so he still speaks of the possibility of attacking iran or sites in iraq in order to slow down the proctor progress over the ball and the israeli public leaves are that they impression that this can come enable that even if they don't national community is negotiating with iran and the americans apply though

a lot of pressures ollie's will look to attack first of all i don't know if they will succeed and they take care come and it can come any any week however a lot of folks in the big role there at the time you know will give up on their take on iraq if the american will look both brush on us to withdraw all the way west bank because the fear in the iranian palestinian deal it's a lot in the papers in. the big papers even these days and maybe this this is one of the things in the big world that americans i look putting pressure on us to achieve peace with the palestinians and we kind of promised them that we would look at taking iran so you're saying is rally public isn't tired about speculation or seven iranian strike by now because everyone else

i can tell you that much is where you fact take bite at this point. look i think in israel it's taken very seriously especially before the iranian elections because we're not within a jug was there a ruler to just imagine that up with dinner judge will have an atomic bomb in israel's was very very frightening no there is a different leadership looks difference look different smiles more and i think i think. differently for the international community but even in these well some people are saying if they have the board we know it's the responsible heads then it would have been three four or five months ago it's

relaxing a little bit but look at the neo natal the o.n.e.'s government say all these for me exercise is just a trick to fool us and the barbies all the way and this is very effective you know not the neo world of thieves being good advantages as politician is he's ability to do to address the media to dress the public for the media to convince the public is very powerful and effective you need any frightens the israeli public is the israeli public see. only the run of the unborn is in existence of two is one of. the traumas the people who have you so so many people will be became i think the vast majority of israelis will be iffy attacks iran their way he

decides to do it i want to talk a little bit about syria as well now there's been much speculation about israeli involvement in syria some believe israel played a role in to stabilizing syria others say israel has been staying back because asaad is the devil they know do you see something that we don't see here the only thing that i see that. is looked much talked about is that for israel when it comes to syria there is one crucial element israel and world's to keep the golan heights and as long as nobody asks israel to withdraw from that will our nights this is something very important strategically and i think that as long as our side will rule syria syria even if it asks for peace with israel we'll never get the golan heights and i think

i think the israelis the majority of these rallies want to keep the golan heights and the fact that we don't live pressures to we strong form the golan ites like we have to do is to inform the west wing this is can see the great development here another thing that you see also internationally is we are afraid that the al qaeda or or iran will control syria because then we have another piece by law or al qaeda on our borders and in this case people people probably prefer assad but but the main thing is and i think it was clever for israel in the last two years. since these developments in syria started to stay aside and if then there is

a need to do something really to maybe to do it but but look to get involved in supporting the side or the other side though the rebels because both sides assad and the rebels and enemies of israel in any case so here's my last question i'm going to ask each answering and not charge because our program is coming to an end ease ralph thought about ratifying the chemical arms trading in the wake of the syrian chemical attack and all the diplomatic efforts around it but then decided to stay ambiguous on this question do you believe that the right step. look we didn't join many international bodies and they grimace because we thought it will affect us negatively. it's not only that kept me it's also the i told me and even the i.c.c. the international criminal court i think that as long as we are in the middle of

subject will inflict it's difficult legally to join some of these international agreements. from the fear that it will be if they have a negative effect. on. me. thank you so much when it's interesting talk that's it for today we're talking to a lonely and former director general of israel's foreign ministry thanks for being with us we'll see in the next edition except that. speak your language. programs and documentaries in arabic it's

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