presence in the west bank despite the fact that's one of the main obstacles to peace talks prime minister benjamin netanyahu however keeps talking about his desire to find a solution to the middle east conflict but looking at the action and not the words does israel really want peace. israel and palestine will both of those names ever share the same maps while political leaders struggle to even agree to hold talks about talks real peace is far from sight israel keeps building settlements while the palestinians keep insisting they want to all of their land back where is the nonexistent relationship between the two neighbors taking. our guns today's our lonely and former director general of israel is foreign ministry mr lee always great to have you with us today so you did not believe netanyahu wants peace with the palestinians any peace even with concessions

so basically all speculations regarding talks and solutions involving this government is just hot air is that right. well i think that the neo would like to have peace but he's terms. so i think early acceptable to the palestinians so there would be nice moves its meaning over the years everybody wants peace the question is will tell you ready to sacrifice in order to achieve peace and very little people many people in israel and maybe also in palestine are ready to sacrifice enough in order to achieve. it so you personally you don't expect anything to happen any steps further while netanyahu is in charge. i don't accept to have a final solution what we used to call peace i don't accept these do it but

i think everybody's busy know in what is called plan b. how can we arrange the talks to fail in an agreement many look to fail in a way that will bring violence or a lot of palestinians a kit international activity especially in the un but to fail in an aggrieved way that the palestinians will get some think. everybody will be able to say that the talks cheve to. something for the palestinians so this i think is what's going on at the moment i personally very much against it but there are different views about it what needs to change in the class that her needs to come

to power tempering a palestinian solution a step closer. i don't think anything has to change in the knesset there is one individual that can make the difference and this is prime minister netanyahu. no is having a very comfortable majority to move to an agreement to a partial agreement or an interim agreement to move to an agreement if he will decide to lead to such an agreement as it seems no is not ready to do it the price that he will have to pay is that broadly he will have to leave his own party than he could because in the early quote you don't have a majority for an agreement if. it with the palestinians but eric sharon did the same when he was prime minister and left the likud form the new

party it doesn't look as if little is willing to do it like that look like everything is centered around one person right. but it happened sometimes because historically israelis kind of delegated the authority only issues of peace and war to the prime minister never ages really saying what do i know about the threat it's about what's going on behind the screens and i have to leave it to my prime minister when begin was prime minister and the subject to go to peace with egypt the following morning fifteen twenty percent of the public changed changed its mind and supported such a peace that included with the war from the sinai peninsula so if an attorney will stand up and say this is my suggestion for for

a little agreement with the palestinians he will have that much or it is this this is happening i think in israel only or letters or war and peace if it will be only called moment but there's social matters then the public can. challenge the prime minister but i don't think war and peace but ben i mean that apple seems quite a phenomenon from outside because he's always been a target of criticism from both foreign and israeli press but still he keeps winning power and as we know it happens that a critically why do you think he has a slight support. first of all if there is no left left in israel winning the left side of the political map has been almost crashed or there is no real peace camp as we used to or today we have sent in right with

a minimal. amount of left is so. little you know is positioning yourself. in the middle of the political map these kind of them order it right also i think it has economic achievements the country is doing well hardly felt the international world crisis of two thousand and eight and people appreciate the way he's running the country. on economic issues if you give building and planning to build more settlements in the west bank and east jerusalem and that's despite all the criticism it gets in quoting from the united nations and the u.s. is ignoring it actually the best tactic i think this is the said issue is story clearly. in the conflict the settlements i think when we started speaking if there is chance for peace or law up and i will specifically

stick with this is the reason the mold of settlements is huge and probably irreversible and. the signal that the israeli government is sending to the palestinians to the rest of the middle east to the world by by continuing even aggressively to settle it is a very negative signal because if low the talks will look. in in agreement it will be called a peace agreement when we meet next time to talk with the palestinians in three or five who knows maybe ten years the volume of the settlements will be bigger and the chance for a palestinian state smaller so i personally do not understand

what this government is doing i know that there are a lot of pressures from the israeli right to go on. settling but the price that we will pay is enormous for this first of all regarding our international image but also if we really look to be able to establish a palestinian state we will be the palestinian state it will be israeli palestinian state or by national state so i don't know the struggle or the government is doing ok but what can be done about the settlements in israel and says there cannot be another gaza solution which has settlements dismantled so what's the way out first of all we had to freeze in the past but the issue of the settlements is directly correlated to issue a for make off the agreement if an attorney oh whoops to reach peace with the palestinians the further think he personally has to say is let's stop settling

because the more settlements we have the more difficult it is to reach an agreement so first he should be there were stopping it don't forget that the prime minister shot room when he decided to go out to for gaza and the rules of the west bank removed the settlements removed them and said no we shouldn't be that. he's not doing it. first of all it doesn't look just enough to stand against the pressures of the right but even more worrying it looks as if he's personally in favor of it so so this is this is the really main complication the continuing of the settlements well talking about the pressure of the right the jewish orthodox population sometimes has the most extreme far right use very hard had it self-righteous in many ways and that behavior can actually aggravate other nations

i don't know the palestinians but it does seem like the government is benefiting from such behavior because who else would live in a settlements if not people like that right. and there is also some. economic speak to eat there and i would say that may be if maybe even more of the settlers moved to the settlements because of economic reasons because they could get better housing cheaper in the settlements the government so too we salute all the settlers are ideologic but when you speak with these little be on the right is that these threats any to topple the government if the settlements are being stopped. if an attorney would face them and say i'm stopping he would have to change the coalition this

is possible he has players outside the quali sure who are ready to join any any time if he moves toward peace like the labor party so i think it's it's up to him because he can he can resist these pushes if he will decide to do it all right after the break what israel's interest in syria iran should a challenge just tehran's new negotiations town stay with us. if you want to say that. if iraq was invaded by

a coalition of the willing led by the united states then you should say that it was led by a small group. countries led by the united states there's no way that you can actually international community when you only represent a very small group. of powers determined to match one coming to us by each country i think first order to advance their own national interest in every country around the world. i don't see that i'm sorry i just disagree with you my friend i do not see china saying that i don't see russia saying that i don't see india saying saying that i don't see brazil saying that comes out of western capitals. i know c.n.n. the m s n b c news have taken some slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be.

that was funny but it's closer to the truth from i think. it's because when full attention in the mainstream media works side by side with actually on here. and our team we have a different right. because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not how. you got to the job well handled stuff that i've got to.

welcome back to the show and our guest al on the al former director general fay's rails foreign ministry so good to have you back at first sight there is very little interest among israelis towards how the palestinians leave are at peace aleutian is that because they're constantly bombarded by the media the level of threats but is there no human dimension being put across it's a good question and they're here it is called next to the of course the fake that the palestinians are now the enemy that looked only presented as that any as you know over the years we had two intifadas each of them lasted several years a very violent especially the second one with about two hundred fifty suicide attacks a lot of israeli casualties we still have many sides from time to time coming from

guys it's look it would look be fair to say that somebody is manipulating it and presenting the palestinians is the enemy the palestinians the enemy one of the enemies of peace with it so it's very difficult for both of the public to to sympathize with the difficult called the issue instead especially in gaza and in the west bank. however i think there are many many israelis tens of thousands maybe hundreds of thousands if it care about teeth that are in touch with palestinians and support them through this civil society also there is a real. sponsibility of the israeli government because we're they'll keep bias to to see to eat the conditions will be bearable and we are passing money

that we collect the excess so there is some equal because even always gaza not only with the west bank but the truth is the majority of the public sees the palestinians as enemies a lot of them sitting in jail for terror attacks against israel even for murdering israelis it's difficult for the ever achieves wally who doesn't see the long to. the political issues in front of him he sees the daily situation he sees the past difficult for him to like the palestinians so let me ask you a question as i would ask an average israeli do you think something should be changed about how palestinians are portrayed or it's a fair portrayal i'll give you a personal view i think. and it's not a secret that there is a basic mistake in the israeli approach to the peace process and the peace

process is being based on old the balance of power between us and the palestinians we are by far much stronger than the palestinians in every possible direction to call all the stake technology they can military. the infrastructure they get is no mous when you come to a peace agreement between six million jews who live here and five million palestinians well enough of million of them israelis you have to change their approach you can look basic on the balance of. because if you base it on the balance of power we really can do everything we won't because we bring that we bring the aircraft we force them to do what we want them to do but this is look

piece differently look you would look at chief justice in such a way so i would make a switch and change the f.t. tube. the historic circumstances the graphic circumstances look the base the talks all the fact that we are strong and weak but if you look at the palestinians themselves they don't look very politically united either why is that i mean they had of israel again or a palestinian lack of engagement it's a tragedy what's happening to them this rift between the fatah and hamas is not only dividing them almost half in kind of power lies inc there it's also effecting the easily position because the israelis say let's say we have an agreement with. with her they can define them or do it

side will double the wrist with it while to come us with it both gaza so why do we go if we do a live peace with the whole team the people it's a big problem it's an additional problem that the problems that we had in the past when we were negotiating with them. i want to touch upon another huge topic from is route iran iran on one hand could be getting closer to its new clericals on the other they have shown a willingness to negotiate israel is sort of stuck in its own position with calls for a strike falling largely on deaf ears how uncomfortable if the situation. here we come back to bend to mean attorney i'll. go easy sure that if they run years acquire the torment bump it's the end of the state of peace and this is an approach he's preaching for in fifteen years or maybe even more

and this is how we see these things he compares it to the situation of the jewish people during the holocaust stand there he all the time speaks about it and affects public opinion on this issue in. the feeling is although every year we say that next year they run eons will have the bomb the feeling is that now it's not a matter of years it's a matter of months or maybe even weeks so he still speaks of the possibility of attacking iran all sites in iraq in order to slow down the appropriate progress though with the bomb and the israeli public leaves are that they impression that this can come enable that even if the

international community is negotiating with iran and the americans apply though a lot of pressures only as well look to attack first of all i don't know if they will succeed and they take care come and it can come any any week and i were ever a lot of folks in the big rolled there at the time you know will give up on dead on iraq if the american will look both brush on us to withdraw all the way west bank because the fear in the iranian palestinian deal it's a lot in the papers in. the big papers even these days and maybe this this is one of the things in the big road that americans are look putting pressure on us to achieve peace with the palestinians and we kind of promised them that we would look to take in iran so you're saying is rally public

isn't tired at about speculation or seven iranian strike by now because everyone else i can tell you that much is right fact take bite at this point. look i think in israel it's taken very seriously especially before the iranian elections because we're not within a judge was there a ruler to just imagine that up with the inner judge will have an atomic bomb in his head was very very frightening no there is a different leadership looks difference look different smiles more and i think i think. differently for the international community but even in israel some spittle are saying if they have the board know it's a responsible heads then it would have been three four five months ago

it's relaxing a little bit but look at the neo natal the o.n.e.'s government say all these the exercise is just a trick to fool us and the barbie's all the way this is very effective you know not on the oh world of fear. being advantages as politician is he's ability to do to address the media dress the public for the media to convince the public is very powerful and effective you need any frightens the israeli public is the israeli public see. only the runnion bull is an existence of threat to israel and. the traumas that people have you so so many people will be became i think the vast majority of israelis will kill him if he attacks iran their way he decides to do it

i want to talk a little bit about syria as well now there's been much speculation about israeli involvement in syria some believe israel played a role in destabilizing syria others say israel has been staying back because asada is the devil they know do you see something that we don't see here the only thing that i see the. is looked much talked about is there for israel and when it comes to syria there is one crucial element israel and world's to keep the golan heights and as long as nobody asks israel to withdraw from that paula it's that this is something very important strategically and i think that as long as our side will rule syria syria

even if it asks for peace with israel we'll never get the golan heights and i think i think the israelis the majority of these rallies want to keep the golan heights and the fact that we had all of pressures to we strong from the golan heights like we have to do is to inform the west wing this is can see that a great development here in the other thing that you see also internationally is we are afraid that the al qaeda or or iran will control syria because then we have another piece by law or al qaeda on our borders and in this case people people probably prefer assad but but the main thing is and i think it was clever for israel in the last two years. since these developments in syria started to stay aside and if then there is

a need to do something militarily maybe to do it but but look to get involved in supporting the side or the other side though the rebels because both sides assad and the rebels and enemies of israel in any case so here's my last question i'm going to ask each answering and not charge because our program is coming to an end ease ralph thought about ratifying the chemical arms trading in the wake of the syrian chemical attack and all the diplomatic efforts around it but then decided to stay ambiguous on this question do you believe that the right step. look we didn't join many international bodies and they grimace because we thought it will affect us negatively. it's not only that chemical it's also the autonomy and even the i.c.c. the international criminal court i think that as long as we are in the middle of

subject will inflict it's difficult legally to join some of these international agreements. from the fear that it will if they have negative effect. on. me. thank you so much when it's interesting talk that's it for today we're talking to a lonely and former director general of israel's foreign ministry thanks for being with us we'll see in the next edition of seven. zero actually what happened that day i don't know but i won't get killed. piers

leggers i got arrested for. for a crime i did not do. we have numerous cases where police officers lie about polygraph results. innocent people to confess to police officers don't beat people anymore i mean it just doesn't happen really. in the course of interrogation why because there's been this is like meant no because the psychological techniques are more effective in obtaining confessions than physical abuse and they were often taken in when they want to say what they wanted and there was no evidence of what they did form. they said. mum right from the scene. first struck. and i think the jury.

on our reporters twitter. and instagram. would be in the know. on. margy dot com is launching a special project to mark the appalling scale of violence in iraq. we want you to know.

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