his fourth term. to cross off the presidencies of george w. bush and barack obama i'm joined by my guest austin peterson in washington he's the c.e.o. of stone gate an editor of the libertarian republic dot com also in washington we have daniel for achi he is the director of grassroots political consulting and in phoenix we cross to kimberly a day old she is the president of world money watch and author of beyond the great recession aren't cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want to kimberly you got up early as for this program and i like to go to the person i got up earlier so kimberly simple question is obama serving george bush's fourth term. not in any way shape or form. the most important difference between george bush and barack obama is and you're going to laugh at this but it's really true bush increased the debt six trillion obama increased it five

trillion and the reason that it's worse under bush than it was under obama is because bush had he had a small recession in the beginning of his term but in his second term the economy was booming and that's when you want to cut the debt you want to have contracts unary fiscal policy when the economy is booming because he kept spending he didn't cut the debt when he should have as far as the business cycle then we ended up not only with a lot of debt by the time we were in the recession which constrained our fiscal policy abilities but we also ended up with a bubble that was much bigger than it ever should have been ok if i go to austin or that's cold comfort if you're unemployed and you've lost your house on what are the comparison and i wasn't really i'm not a big fan of george w. bush as a libertarian myself i could not defend either one and there was

a time actually where i would make that argument peter where this was the fifth term of george w. bush but let me just tell you something right now president george w. bush never claimed the right to extradition really assassinate american citizens this president barack obama should be impeached for crimes against the citizens and against the constitution because he has killed women and children in drone strikes initiates double taps when he fires as drones which means the first responders come in those people are killed women and children so i just like to say that i think that history is not going to judge the presidency of barack obama and george bush in the same light whatsoever this president is heinous with his record on civil liberties he's also raised more money than wall street than any perform wall street than any president in the last twenty years seventy three billion dollars he gave to his corporate. cronies from the troubled assets relief program i think obama is way worse than bush and i am not a big fan of george w. bush ok often you could probably be co-hosting this program i guess i don't need to sit in very much depth can you reflect upon what we've heard from good ruby and from austin their good job their off to go ahead daniel. yeah i there

is no compare and contrast between either president whatsoever this side's having a spending problem i completely disagree with kimberly statistics this president currently has spanned and ballooned the debt and deficits out of control more than all presidents combined however george w. bush did spend too much but his governing style foreign policy prowess vision for the future of the country taking a set of crisis and leadership style or night and day over what president obama's are and even the graph the irony here of the last week or so of the polling numbers and politico just ran a poll showing forty six percent approval for president bush while you have thirty seven percent for president obama it's quite an irony at this point it's a very interesting you go to the poll numbers kimberly they may be for different reasons but i mean it's obvious that the american people are very dissatisfied with

barack obama with his policies and his leadership style with over half saying that they don't trust him any more i mean is this a parallel with george w. bush or is this is the fate of second term presidents. i don't think it's either one here is the big problem and you mentioned it before peter right now too many people are unemployed they've been unemployed for too long and you can't get good jobs most of the jobs that's been created are low paying retail and temporary jobs i call it the freelance economy because that pretty much what employers have been hiring so when people and i hear plenty of people who say to be you know i don't care what obama's done i can't find a good job now what's the cause of that the cause of that is the two thousand and eight financial crisis which occurred in two thousand and eight that's when we were that close from the entire global economy falling apart. and we have not yet

recovered from that and to me that's the biggest issue that most americans care about you know look at retail spending as we're coming into the all important christmas season every just about every even wal-mart is reporting lower earnings that they're expecting every retailer is worried and it's because there's no demand demand we were doing pretty well for the last couple years but now it has fallen off a cliff and i don't care what you do there's a model here i mean look at a small business policy can really i don't i don't mean to cut you off but you're absolutely right i want to tell you because barack obama has passed eleven thousand three hundred twenty seven pages of new regulations that have been added during his presidency forty six percent of employers are afraid of hiring because of the policies of this president right now and remember george w. bush never tried to take over the health care system barack obama has tried to take over one sixth of the united states economy if you took the health care system out

and just had it as his own economy it would be the sixth largest economy in the world and barack obama has tried to socialize it in the strangest way possible by giving money to big corporations so this sounds like corporatism to me my for. and it's not really a continuation of george w. bush because bush never tried to take over the health care system and bush didn't take fifty to seventy five percent of the fourteen million consumers were buying insurance out of the market and destroyed their health insurance policies the woman that the bill that the president trotted out it was a rather rose garden as the great success that california woman who was going to pay be able to have obama care she thought she was going to be one hundred thirty dollars a month in premiums she's going to pay six hundred thirty seven dollars she's a single mother and she will get no tax credit this is your food stamp president brought to life so there's no comparison here whatsoever ok well maybe there is daniel i mean i want to get back to year go ok kimberly that you can really go and get it out first go ahead you can jump in this is cross talk going ahead we'll go to daniel and so i could go ahead. yeah i'd like to get back to the first point as

far as job creation let me tell you this and i've been in the business community for twenty plus years you know if there's demand i don't care how many regulations you have if there is demand employers will hire people to make sure they're producing enough product so they can make profit they will do whatever they need to do to make profit the problem is regulations don't help but if there is demand businesses will hire there isn't consumer demand that is the critical problem in this economy and i think that everyone needs to focus on that question how do we increase demand and jobs in this economy and get it rolling again daniel i want to reflect about what would really just said and when you just said it just seems like it doesn't matter if you're a republican or a democrat you're basically a servant of corporate america no i mean when you look at the amount of money that are given to candidates right now i mean hillary clinton did a nice go at two weeks ago picked up

a nice piece of change when she went to wall street i mean it it's always seems that you know it's you know like the circus is inbred the roman times you know you entertain everybody like on t.v. programs like this but at the end of the day it's the the one percent of they're not trying to be a classist here but you know they still get what they want in a bronco obama is a wonderful servant for those interests. yeah let me take just a little chunk of the earlier point a hybrid between kimberly and austin and then let me get to the money poured make this is brief as i can first everything leading up to two thousand and eight was a great catastrophe but everything leading up to two thousand and eight is why we're in the economic crunch we still are in today on top of. the president looking to take over a six of the u.s. economy and health care which further and all the other steps he took from cash for clunkers bailouts of the banks bailouts of the auto. industry accent or etc but the

size and scope of the federal government in the united states is out of control our debt can't even close to be you know fathom being paid off and the federal government literally is one of the strongest sectors of job growth in the country even with this fiscal picture being what it is but both parties lack a growth message focusing on reforming our entitlements streamlining our tax code and getting back to a fair regulatory environment so that's a simple economic picture going to your point though on the money in the system the heart and the soul of the problem with the federal government at this point in time in our electoral system is not as much lobbyists and other things as everyone wants to bash pay to play literally the if somebody would vote and i have yet to find a congressman that desires to take cap unions and corporations who are banned them from pay to play and the twenty five hundred dollars plate fundraisers that

breakfast lunch and dinner that happened every day in this town then we'd have a much different picture but yes that corporate. pay to play being able to trade stock on legislation that you're voting for again same with staffers same with the f.d.a. drug approval i mean it is it's at of control and there is no cap oversight or containment of it and it's running our system into the ground all right we're going to go to a short break here folks and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on bush and obama stayed with r.t. .

if you're thinking about an alcoholic drink associated with russia it's probably not going to be one that springs into your head but they've been making it here on the black sea coast for more than two thousand kids and there's an industry which really can compete with the best the rest of the world has to offer i've come to meet some of the people going the greats and to see if i can find out the secret to the perfect place. but. i. think it's. terrorists are simply a bad groups of people located throughout the world no different than say

a motorcycle gang or what have you that are involved in bad activities you're not going to solve that problem by invading countries overthrowing governments and occupying countries that's the solution that's insane you're going to win it with good police work and intelligence gathering that's how you'll defeat terrorism they are just simply little pockets of bad people throughout the world you have to deal with and creating an empire in occupy nations with your military is not the answer . right to see. first street. and i would think that you're. an army corps. and instrument.

to be in the know. on. the olympic torch is on its epic journey to such. one hundred and twenty three days. through two hundred towns and cities of russia. relayed by fourteen thousand people or sixty five thousand killings. in a record setting trip by land air sea and others face. a limp the torch relay. on r t v dot com.

welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered on peter lavelle true mind you were discussing the presidencies of george w. bush and barack obama. ok austin and i go back to you in washington and i came across a number of one of these i want to do this program because in the media there's comparisons because of the poll numbers between barack obama and george of the bush and it's been said here barack obama's you keep your health care is compared to bush's iraq. weapons of mass destruction in iraq would you find them equivalent.

not necessarily because i think that bush george every bush is someone who is probably more led astray by the neoconservatives in his cabinet he doesn't strike me as the type of sort of evil plot or that a lot of people assumed him to be remembered donald rumsfeld dick cheney those people had been in the government for years before judge george every bush ever was the governor of texas so i would like to say that if you're looking at the present the two presidents and their statements one about health care the other about iraq george w. bush was probably based on false intelligence and barack obama he's either an idiot or he definitely lied because there were plenty of briefings that show that there were tons of people who were going to lose their health care plans and the president either did not read the only his own bill or he directly lied to the people of about what was in it so we had to pass the bill to find out what was in it now we know what was in it and we see that fifty to seventy five percent of people who are in the private insurance markets are going to lose it so i actually do if i had to look at these two presidents in comparison i would say that i wouldn't really choose either one but if you look at the poll numbers you see that

no president who is poll numbers have tanked in the second term have made a recovery and that's in contrast to presidents bill clinton and ronald reagan who their second term poll numbers actually went up so i really don't think there's any comparison the united states has been a lot of trouble for the last twenty years and we're going to have to figure out some way out of it that has to do i think with more libertarian policies because the end of the american people are just not going to accept this kind of failure and lies from our commander in chief's anymore ok kimberly i mean we when we heard there from austin is that either barack obama is a liar or ease or maybe both people do come and say that about george w. bush as well but for different reasons. yes i'm not going to do a character judgment on either one of our presidents if only in respect to the office however i do want to raise the point that. bush did in response to nine eleven which was a terrible tragedy he created the war on terror. the iraq war and this created one

point five true added one point five trillion to the debt. over the next ten years just in contingency spending he took the debt and before the war he his debt budget deficit was about two hundred fifty billion a year and he doubled that to five to six hundred billion a year just on defense spending so again that was a big error and i like to take things from the big picture and look at how does it affect the average person that debt as we came into the recession once again. hobbled us from being able to spend and now we're all still in the expansion phase of this recession that we got over in two thousand and nine but we're still in the expansion phase and we can't quite push to the next level because of constrictive fiscal policy or us staring measures that are coming out of congress right now ok

daniel again i'm going to go back to the really one of the go away rules never like to talk about is the civil liberties track records between the two of these people and you like to talk about how much bush spent on the iraq war but what you don't like to talk about is how obama has said that he was going to close guantanamo bay and he didn't do it so what's the a liar or was he ignorant and let's also talk about the national defense authorization act where barack obama gave the military the power to detain american citizens without a trial what about life liberty and the pursuit of happiness without due process can really that we can talk about money here all day but what nobody's talking about is what a tyrant barack obama is on civil liberties way worse than george w. bush ever was ok daniel i want to go to daniel first. basically agreeing with austin is brock obama just a continuation george w. bush george w. bush because you have the capture the neo-cons you have the security forces you have the military have captured the presidency again that's an empty suit on all of the issues that osten just mentioned here because we had torture under george w.

bush and it did and now we have drones we have killed listen what i'm getting at is that maybe not to the defamation of either person's character per se on this program daniel but the capture of the presidency itself by these other forces that are never elected by anyone. well your last question is coincide to each other and that both of these president said vastly different intents george w. bush went through nine eleven which was. just a catastrophe beyond words and did create homeland security to poor been one ton of obaid things like that but that was a the thing the excuse of mine it was a presidency and a country in crisis on how to deal with this catastrophe and this first attack on our soil since pearl harbor compare that to president obama who has just blew in this federal government at a control every single step he possibly can't austin touched on the n.d.a.

surveillance on americans and you can't even have a website for them to enroll live this is a bunch of trustee of obamacare. n.s.a. problem so all over the globe there's just so many patterns in examples time and time again that i think the intent of both of these presidents was very very different on this point but on top of that when you compared the iraq and the. i can't remember the misleading statement of the resit oh if you'd like your insurance you can keep it i think there's there's a very different as well i agree with austin in that president bush was misled by some in the intelligence community from all over the world we had italian australian african intelligence services coalescing upon the point that saddam had these weapons but. the comparison being for president obama this is a pattern of misleading statements misleading policy to the american public with no

accountability of himself or anyone in his office whether it be health care the i.r.s. benghazi to you know anything that happens there is no ok i don't believe there's a pattern of this there's a pattern of time and time again enough there's a pattern though but under both presidencies and this is what i'm getting at is because we have a presidency that is. what office in the united states is being captured by these special interests outside and you know it could be health care it could be defense it could be intelligence right it could be finances wall street and this is what i think really gets to the point here is that kimberly i mean the power of the presidency to be able to push through an agenda if you're under capture or in the in the first place. i think that president obama right now is under capture from the tea party republicans in the in congress because they came into power in two thousand and ten in two thousand and eleven he tried to put forward the american jobs act so that we can continue to hire people which are getting back

to jobs because that's what most people care about especially if you don't have one and what did we get from the tea party republicans let's shut down the government and have the government not pay its debt which was very damaging you know last year we had the fiscal cliff this year we once again shutdown the government this is all the tea party republicans it's something that they say this is we're proud of this is something we need to do you know no matter what your political persuasion is. an economic perspective let me finish my sentence please those those. measures do not create jobs and that's the most important thing that we need to do right now is create good jobs for most americans austin you want to jump in there. and there are good laws yes i want to jump in here and listen just in the way kimberly let's talk about this because presidents cannot create jobs ok the government cannot create jobs the only thing that the government can do to create jobs is to get out

of the way so if you have an understanding of how economics works the president can do certain things to reduce regulations so that businesses can hire more people but when you look at it from a basic pool imagine yourself you have a swimming pool k. the government comes along and takes money out of one side of the pool and then walks around the other side of the pool and then dumps money in have you increase the total size of the pool no but that's what government says it does when it taxes us and then spends money to create jobs this is a keynesian fallacy it's totally wrong and the austrian economists have debunked this came i would urge you to take a look at the nobel prize winner friedrich hayek who talked about the pretense of knowledge that these government officials can actually centrally plan our economy they can't the more the planners try to plan the more difficult planning becomes for the individuals you've got to understand that basic economic concepts are right we will never hear running out of time here i want to ask everyone the same question i want to first go to daniel is brand obama toxic now politically.

president obama is completely toxic on the campaign trail especially to where both of these senators that are involved the barrel elections on the democratic side of the aisle are running away from him running away from health care and on so many different issues running away from him on surveillance you have bipartisan bills going through on that right now to curb the n.s.a. the n.d.a. whatever issue you can possibly touch at this point in time there is a complete fracturing of his coalition i also don't want to touch real quickly this past debate here that i agree with austin the president congress the federal government does not create jobs in the economy they remove predictability for businesses that project five to ten years out with over regulation heavy taxation and all these little good meat cookie cutter jobs programs that are nothing more than a little stimulus here or there for select constituencies that are in involved in

pay to play and the house republicans well they may have not strategically done the right thing on the shutdown thank god there they are because we've seen the stains of the supermajority on the other side already with obamacare and v.a. and essay and all these other adverse policies in this country ok can really i want to ask really is brand obama toxic for the united states and i'm thinking a midterm elections obviously. no not at all i think that when history looks back on this president they'll find that obamacare ranks right up with social security and medicare as something that helps millions of americans actually get preventative care and lower health care costs in the long run ok i'm going to do what you want to reply did he really there and then is is a brand obama toxic go ahead one minute go ahead you damn right it's toxic that's why these democrats are jumping like rats filling that sinking ship peter because next year there's going to be millions more people whose insurance plans are going

to be canceled and you can bet that those democrats especially the ones that are in red states are going to be filling that sinking ship and making sure that they do everything they can to keep obama's promises because he's not going to be able to do it that's why they're trying to pass legislation in the house in the senate right now that would allow him to keep his promises people will be running away from that president next year and it looks like there's going to be something like ten to twenty million more insurance policies canceled all up for you next year kimberly i'll be really excited to see if you're sitting in that same tune when the midterm elections come around all right we're going on a very interesting note many thanks to my guests in washington and in phoenix and thanks to our viewers for watching us here see you next time and remember cross talk rules. and these will.

you know there's one thing that i still come to understand and i don't want to ruin your good mood but i have this one question when doing this all for you that you had everything they respect and so that you give them all up in the senate to go your way but what for. it was a way to inform he tried to restrain himself but look it will burst out anyway. if it really puts me off that i have such a father. it was one small but very

great secret that i have to live with for fear of. it all over my language as well but i will only react to situations i have read the reports and let you know what is the know i will leave them to the state department to comment on your latter point of the month to say it is to carry out a car is on the docket no god. no way no more weasel words. when you have a direct question me prepared for a chase when you throw a punch be ready for a. printout of speech and down to freedom to cost. choose your language. to keep it open if. some of.

the concerns get to. choose the opinions that invigorating to. choose the stories that inflicts choose access to.

sturrock interim deal with iran hopes for a long term solution to the nuclear issue by countries differ on how to interpret the agreement and what led to the diplomatic victory also. that diplomacy opened up a new path toward a world that is more secure. storage. the u.s. fails to appease skeptics at home and to some allies abroad as its part in the deal attracts a flurry of criticism in washington and tel aviv. police used tear gas on thousands of protesters in the ukrainian capital kiev as a government breaks away from a trade deal with.