he was the father of the tea party movement a strong voice of dissent still captivates and leads a large american audience who call for change the former congressman presidential candidate ron paul plus daniel ellsberg the original government leader forty years ago with a pentagon take and is now supporting n.s.a. leaker edward snowden it's all next on politicking with larry king. on the politicking on larry king we start the program with the former congressman and presidential candidate ron paul an old friend he joins us from clute texas where he does his shows for the recently launched ron paul channel on the internet and he's the father of the current united states senator and possible presidential candidate rand paul ron a before i ask you about your new program and everything

attested to it are you in the republican party politico says that you are you've got a detente with the party and you're closer now is that true. well i haven't paid much attention to that i haven't been involved i've never been too interested in politics in spite of the fact i spent so many years there but partisan politics turns me off but they haven't really talked to me i haven't talked with them in this state time and i have no idea what their they're talking about because i talk to some people who want to you know emphasize the big ten and others are still i'm happy about the way they were treated if they were supporters of mine how they were treated before so from my viewpoint i don't pay a whole lot of attention to it because i'm much more interested as i have been for many years on education on monetary policy and foreign policy and i don't think we get very far with the partisan bickering and then in intra party because i think

doesn't get me very excited either. will rogers once said i'm not the member of any organized political party i'm a democrat. that can that be said now about the republican party that we can't get a bead on where oh where are they who is that what's the center core well i don't see it as one party versus the other i see the leadership of both parties being very closely aligned and that the people on the independent minded people as being separate from them if you look at that a marsh vote having to do with n.s.a. and whether or not we should rein them in a little bit leadership on both sides who are very much in favor of you know all the spying they want leave them alone that sort of thing and yet there is a large number of people responding republicans and democrats in opposition to this most people are supposed to they think oh the republicans they're the conservatives

they want to cut back spending but we know that doesn't happen so i think some of us just see things differently then either the two parties being something separate and really squabbling or some of the fights within the party may have more philosophic content than really the the the fighting that goes on in a presidential race especially after they nominate the two candidates deep down in policies are very very similar and american people on offered a whole lot if you happen not to fall into the mainstream if you happen to be you know libertarian or belong to green party. they don't get there they don't get a fair shake they don't get the interviews and in so i think that that's why so many people were turned off does that mean possibly in a sense i was so involved with that that it's possible for a modern day ross perot to emerge. i guess if you're

a billionaire you can i don't think you can do it from the grassroots i think that you know and i remember when ross perot became a name and i think you helped him along that you gave a fair shot a lot of on your program which was you know unusual he didn't get you know the other networks automatic but he got as he got along pretty well but i think it's money talked you know i think it does make a difference if you have the money but i don't think our system lends itself to that if anybody comes to agreeing sensory with what i'm saying that the parties aren't a whole lot different we don't have much of a democratic process left you know we go overseas saying you're going to be good democrats and you're going to have elections and if you don't elect the right guy we're not going to support them. at the same time you know the competition here getting on ballots and getting credibility and getting in debates it's really

pretty difficult and the process continues you really don't ever see any changes in washington and i think it's because basically the leadership of both parties in spite of all their arguing they argue over power i grant you that but they don't argue over the issues that i consider important. therefore you would do incur as a loving father would you encourage your son to get into this makes or not. well i it's been a long time since i you know give advice to my kids a game a lot of advice since they were growing up and and ran certainly was interested in economics in and studied and read and you know they are a lot of the austrian economists but now it was sort of like medicine i was delighted he went in medicine became an office i'm ologist and three of my kids are in medicine and there are pros and cons about medicine but neither my wife or i said go medicine this is the way to go same way with politics it was it was it was

never. it was never really discussed in politics whether he should go in and run for the senate or not that was a decision he made on his own ok the current chairman of the republican national committee. rance priebus he wants to sort of have a problem with the g.o.p. debates it was so many the last time he wants to ban n.b.c. and c.n.n. from carrying any of the debates because they're planning documentaries on hillary it sounds like a soap opera what are your thoughts on presidential primary debates. well i think they're fairly rigged and i think i think they're you know designed you know when i was doing fairly well in nineteen in two thousand and eight and we were doing well in new hampshire and the big debate you know a day or two before the primary and everybody knows new hampshire is important well

fox had the big debate but just only you know for some reason my name was struck from the list so you know those things happen but as far as saying if you do it this way if you look like you're doing it for the purpose of building up hillary and we don't like it and we want to boycott it i think the boycott is a pretty good weapon but then again i have a suspect that they don't want so many debates in spite of my mentioning the fact that i was excluded at times i still go out in a lot of debates c.n.n. allowed me on in the debates so and that was helpful not that our supporters thought that we really were treated fairly all the time but it was also a chance for me to talk about issues which really put the spotlight on liberty the issue of individual liberty rather than big government doing everything so it. did offer some benefits but now i think the republicans are talking about well

there is way too many well it may be that when they were twenty six in a year and i got to be in twenty four of them that was a benefit but if they say oh we're only going to have four four and we're going to go you know they complain about too many candidates well who's going to pick on if you don't have access to so it's far it's far from perfect did you ever feel doctor and you were long and tough fights and you had a tremendous minority following the jurors you were still doing it when mills. never never i always i always prepared myself probably psychological protection and i never expected very my somebody said weren't you always frustrated i said now it's never frustrating washington i just had low expectations i never thought i'd go to congress but i'm my issues were big i'm challenging the status quo republican and democrat i want to change the foreign policy i want to change the federal reserve system i want

a balanced budget so no i didn't expect much to happen the fact that in these last five years especially going through the first and second presidential campaigns in a and twelve the attention given was far above anything i expected i never dreamed there would be a day when the house of representatives would pass twice a bill that says that we ought to audit the federal reserve system and even the republican party was forced to acknowledge that in the last campaign not because they care but they knew that it was politically beneficial for romney to at least say something and put something in the platform so i say that's where the change has to be has to be with the people attitudes have to change and that is where we're making great strides so i i always felt very good about what's happening and of course i get criticized from both ends you know that you didn't achieve the not as much and you were killed in that windmill this sort of thing but i can't say

personally that i've been you know disappointed with it and right now it's led to this opportunity where i can still talk about the issues i think people's attitudes in mines and educational levels have everything to do with government's reflect the people when the people jacked i believe government will change the head of a wiki leaks julian assad's recently described himself as a big admirer of yours what do you think of that whole. operation the leaking names and the like what was your reaction well i want as much transparency of god. woman it's possible i think wiki leaks has worked very hard to make sure this nobody's been injured and there's no evidence that anybody has but if our government is doing something wrong and they're hiding it from a us i think there is a moral obligation of those people who know and can reveal that to us to let us know they should tell us but they government complains oh no they're going to release this information to the enemy well i'm not the enemy the people is not the

enemy the people ought to know what's going on we ought to have our privacy is protected and the secrecy of government challenge when it's totally unnecessary and most of this is very unnecessary all the spying that they do so what do you think of the of the bradley manning use in the edward snowden's. why i think ali often i think i think of them like daniel ellsberg daniel ellsberg you know was and they tried to put him away for a long time in prison they tried the you the new york times for it for releasing the truth about how the vietnam war was started how we were lied into that war and i think people now who are people now are trying to tell us the truth about what happened in iraq and afghanistan they should be seen more as heroes because you take a guy like snowden he knows exactly what he was up to and he knows the you know the

danger of it and but he believed i sincerely believe although i've never met him that he was convinced that he was doing a service to the people by doing this and we shouldn't be calling people like this traitors i i think we don't have enough whistleblowers and we should pay more attention to our laws of whistle blowing that when people tell us the truth they should be called traitors but this is characteristic of an empire our you know if treason in an empire is when you tell the truth if you tell a law that supports the empire and we live in an age where the empire depends on a lot of lies and we need to expose the lies and so i compliment them for doing it we'll be right back with more ron paul will talk about the ron paul channel still coming later in the show the man he just mentioned the original government leaker daniel ellsberg don't go away. i got a quote for you. it's pretty tough. stay with substory.

because this guy like that smear that time stead of working for the people most issues the mainstream media are richer bribers vision. of the brother. that was a new alert animation scripts scare me a little bit. there is breaking news tonight and they are continuing to follow the breaking news to me alexander's family cry tears of the wife and embracing sather that there had to be ever read arquette a court of law found alive there's

a story made sort of movies playing out in real life. please. cut. to. the. lowest see. the flames. we're back with ron paul a couple of other things i want to get into what do you make of the dispute going on between your son and the governor of new jersey. i think it's unnecessary and i don't think that much positive com but in a way you could argue it to there is a philosophical difference there. course. you know this argument whether whether you should have big government or small government i think. it is

a legitimate argument and and i don't think people should be elected and in compromise to be elected you know grover cleveland had a great quote once he says what is it worth if you're elected and reelected and you don't stand for anything so you know the argument is is get elected first get elected say what you have to say bring people together you know do whatever is necessary to get elected because if you don't get elected you can't do any good so i don't buy into that i think you have to believe in something and just getting elected if you don't believe anything you'll end up having a government like we have today that's what they do all the time as soon as they are elected they're worried about the next election so i want people to believe in something and i want to people who know what it is and then have a fair and square election over it what is the wrong paul channel. well this is something we're doing on the internet it's an outgrowth of what i've been doing and

over the years i've always had some vehicle as far back as one thousand nine hundred four in and out of politics but you know during the campaign we had tremendous support coming from young people who were very savvy with the internet a lot more so than i they would raise money and organize spontaneously because they liked the message and that excited me and the excitement remained and i was ready to get out of congress in several people several groups came to me and said why don't you do something on the internet as well i don't know whole lot about it so i finally you know got some people together that i thought were capable and understood it so they gave me this proposal about a channel where i could do what i'm doing right now talking about the issues and this is why we've done this and it's a channel that hopefully i can do interviews i'll never be an interviewer as good as larry king but you know i'll take a stab at it and you know interview people and also i'll be taking calls and

e-mails from supporters and in react that way so it's my effort really to promote something i deeply believe than i believe it's the right thing and i believe it's beneficial to our country i believe that liberty does answer a lot of our questions and i want to keep doing it because i'm firmly convinced it's the american tradition it was the tradition and most of the understanding of the founders and i don't know if i do it her a couple reasons one i believe that's how you can have peace and prosperity so nobody should ever challenge that and say well i think most people do want peace and prosperity but look at what we have today there's not a whole lot of peace around the world and we're engaged in one hundred thirty some countries and right now the prosperity in this country is very precarious the middle class is shrinking the very wealthy is growing in numbers. and we're still not out of trouble yeah matter of fact our problems economically are getting worse

and those are the kind of things i want to talk about and i do that on the channel and when music kickoff it last week we had our first program so it's available now anybody interest is interested go to ron paul channel dot com and they can get the information they have a just go to ron paul journal dot com and you'll find out everything a couple of other quick things who should be the next chairman of the federal reserve mr noda an o. t. a none of the above. i can't pick anybody you know they say there's only two choices up there but they both believe that if the government spends too much money and they can't borrow enough the fed is always there to to print the money as a failed policy and it said and they both endorse this so they both despite what if we spend hundreds of billions of dollars overseas doing things that we shouldn't do well the fed is going to take care of it because there's not enough people to pay all the taxes so they essentially believe that you have to have somebody with

a printing press that is the lender of last resort otherwise the banks who overextend themselves and get into trouble they could go bankrupt you don't want that to happen that would be disruptive so you always have to so you have the federal reserve to serve these interest so the individual there is not import and we lived up in this country up until one nine hundred thirteen without a central bank and and we had economic growth it surpassed anything since then so i just don't think we need it so picking one over the other doesn't really do much good. thank you ron don't forget the ron paul channel just go to ron paul channel dot com and think it up on the web right that is it. always good seeing you ron it's always a pleasure talking with you and asking you questions thank you larry joining me now is daniel ellsberg in one nine hundred seventy one he leaked the top secret pentagon papers detailing two decades of united states policy in vietnam he's been

very outspoken in support of edward snowden and wiki leaks and he joins us from berkeley california and by the way daniel you'll be interested to know that ron paul was our guest right before you and in praising miss the snowden and mr manning and we gave each he singled you out as the forerunner of all of this as a true american hero you have a reaction to that i do ron paul has has taken several occasions to praise what i did in congress and i really appreciate it it's really i have to say very unusual phil it gives me a warm feeling toward him what do you make of so we got sentence penned pending when when this airs it'll be rendered already on private manning on mr snowden in russia on weiqi leaks what's your overview of this whole thing well i think there's no better way for americans to have a real sense of where we've arrived than to do what i did a few weeks ago which was to rerent to the movie enemy of the state from one

thousand nine hundred ninety eight i'm in that movie you'll remember that larry because you're in it playing yourself on the end of the movie that's a that's right in the very end of the movie after during which an innocent person will smith has been pursued by all the technical fav of capability of the n.s.a. which by the way the movie was a little head of its time but which it definitely has it now it's a very realistic movie right now i'd like to see it reissued and have every american see it that entries been pursued by all this innocently. by some actual rolled n.s.a. national secure. the agency factions at the end they have you on the screen saying where do you asking the question where do you draw the line between the gathering of intelligence that the government has to have and the protection of civil liberties particularly the sanctity of the home and you end with a kind of heartfelt cry you have no right to enter my home come into my home right

but as you know i'm sure there in your home right now larry and mine if you have an i phone in your pocket i don't know if you have it right now in your kitchen or your bedroom or your chargin in the bedroom at night as i do the n.s.a. the national security agency can store record store all of your conversation any of your more generally if you have a computer in your home your tweets your e-mail your purchases over online your google searches all of that including your i phone or a smartphone is a g.p.s. all of your movements is all on record to be retrieved at will when the president says we don't listen to your calls sort of has his fingers crossed it's true they don't listen in real time that would take out half the population of the united states listening and every two people who are online together what they do is tivo it they have it on file and they can they have your entire digital record at any

time now that's the infrastructure of a police state we don't have a police state or you and i wouldn't i wouldn't be talking to you right now but they could turn this into a police state overnight speak for the other side is that what if the. a president is meeting with his advisors and they say mr obama we have a dangerous problem in this country we have terrorise inside the country we have the possibility of people carrying around a nuclear weapon in their hands people are talking to each other they're plotting we can gain information this is not enemy of a state time it's not nine hundred eighty it's not nixon it's not nine hundred ninety this is two thousand and thirteen is a dangerous times you have to walk a balance line how would you answer the answer would be as william binney who was one of the very top people in the n.s.a. the national security agency retired because he saw the his agency did work for for

almost thirty years violating the constitution the fourth amendment regularly and as he's been saying publicly lately that he designed basically the system that they're using but he did it with privacy restrictions on it encrypting the what they were gathering of innocent people american citizens talking to each other that so that couldn't be retrieved unless a court order a warrant said you can retrieve it and his judgment was and that of others that listening to people for whom you have probable cause reason to believe even a lower standard that they might be in touch with terrorists you get a court order from a court far more independent than the phase a court has proven to be but you get that court order and you listen to those and you listen as he says to one or two degrees further to the people who are listening and talking to them and perhaps the two degrees the people who are talking or

listening to those people not three and four degrees which basically includes everybody in the country he said that adds nothing nothing based on experience to your ability to find actual terrorist networks what it does do is to put into. hands of the executive branch the ability to blackmail every person in the country and more and turn them into informants as was done by the stasi in east germany are you pessimistic about tomorrow i have to say that i think i'm an optimist we have a chance we have a chance to rein back the n.s.a. and to restore constitutional government something that gives we encourage mint is the fact that a majority of democrats in the house recently went against their own house leadership as did many republicans in attempting to rein in the n.s.a. the unconstitutional powers they've been having that they almost succeeded and i

think they're going to keep at it so that's the most hopeful thing i've seen lately denny your true american hero always good talking with you thank you very much for the chancellor thanks to both of my guests former congressman ron paul and daniel ellsberg that's all for this week's politicking with larry king and you can find me don't forget on twitter at kings things see you next time. i think. the really. good you know the price is the only industry specifically mention in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and our crack. we've been hijacked like

a handful of friends national corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once i'm tom are in on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world to go beyond identify. problem trucks rational debate and a real discussion critical issues facing america have on the front row ready to join the movement then walk a little bit. of . a look it was terrible they come up very hard to take out a plan to get along here a lot lot has never had sex with the earthquake there are no plans let's give up a little blood.

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rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want to. i'm the president and i think a society that i think corporation kind of can do that to consume it can do and the bankers take all that all about money and i was fascinated that for a politician writing the laws and regulations that bankers somehow.

there is just too much crap it's a days. that. there i marinate it this is boom bust and here are some of the stories we're tracking for you today. first up j.p. morgan. nepotism especially in china now that's according to new documents on earth and published in the new york times we're going to tell you all about it coming right up and one of the sexiest metals known to man is behind some of the most criminal behavior the world has ever seen bold it's a complex thing and the best selling author matthew heart knows a thing or two about it he joins me to discuss his new book aptly titled goals and finally in today's big deal rachel curtis and i talk about the state battle for boeing and i'm.