will be able to hide behind something called market making which is when a bank buys and sells securities like stocks and bonds on behalf of clients the rule as it's written now leaves an enormous a gray area in determining what is proprietary trading and what's market market making rather furthermore one of the most egregious parts of the law makes banks managers themselves responsible for testing but their banks are complying with the rules absolutely genius because banks policing themselves worked out so well for the american people back in two thousand and eight so while i applaud the attempt at reform here let's not forget that we're living in a corporatocracy and as long as corporations ultimately dictate these laws i'll be breaking the said. the butler they are very hard to take the turtle to get along so well i am back with the terror threat there.

was. a little. little. little. today in new york court rejected a bid to grant personhood to chimpanzees in the state and freedom from captivity if authorized that would have been a first of its kind legal victory for animal rights and us the group who pushed for the lawsuit the non human rights project believes that animals deserve all the legal rights that humans do as does my next guest gary friend john and animal abolitionist lawyer and professor rockers you. versity he was the first person to

ever teach an animal rights theory class and have been changing the conversation about sentient creatures are sent gary joined me earlier and i first asked him to explain to me what animal abolition of. animal evolution is the theory that we ought not to be focusing on the treatment of animals that the fundamental moral question is can we justify using animals at all however humanely we treat them i mean i think that we have to confront the fact that because animals are chattel property and they have no inherent or intrinsic value they have only extrinsic an xterm value the standard of animal welfare is actually very low so even if you if you take the most humane places in terms of the way animals are treated it's still really horrible and so basically the the i'm trying to change the conversation away from treatment and over to use search ask the fundamental question why are we eating wearing or using animals at all particularly when we don't have to so that

would sort of be the answer nutshell what's the response of the concept that humans are cognitively different than other animals. you know i mean it we're the only animals who use symbolic communication so you know what goes on in our heads basically is very very much connected with this thing called language and these concepts that we get from from the language that we use so i have no doubt that animals are cognitively different from us but the question is so what i mean even you know if yes they're going to be different but they're sentient they're perceptual aware they're subjectively aware so why do we think that the cognitive differences matter morally and we can see this when we're talking about human beings i mean you can say well you know you've got somebody who's who's mentally disabled and somebody who's brilliant are they different yes are the differences relevant they may be but but it depends what question you're asking if the question is you know you're going to. hire somebody to be

a math professor you probably don't want to hire somebody who is mentally disabled on the other hand if the question is who do you use the talented you know the talented mathematician of the per the person who is disabled who you use for a painful biomedical experiment or is a four star organ donor the answer is you shouldn't use either of them if that's the question so i mean you know that's that's really i mean you know cognitive differences matter in certain respects but but the the how good of differences don't matter when you asked the question can you justify treating a sentient being exclusively as a resource it doesn't really matter the cognitive differences are irrelevant. appeared at the bring us up one of the largest animal advocacy groups apparently thought of as animals a math according to huffington post in two thousand and eleven the organization killed ninety six percent of the animals brought to them gary what sort of groups can we trust the lobby on behalf of these boys this creature is even peta as math for watering well. look i know the folks at peta i have known them for many years

and i'm sure i don't wish to question anyone's integrity i disagree with their man in certain ways abby. you know peta takes the position that killing an animal painlessly is not harming the animal and as crazy as that may sound it really is sort of part of the conventional thinking that we we we have about animals goes back a few hundred years ago to you know to nineteenth century england where you had thinkers like jeremy bentham said well animals matter they can suffer but they don't care that we use them they only care about how we use them and so the cow doesn't care that we are she only cares about how we treat her now i think that that's wrong i think that's a species this notion of self-awareness and interest in one's life but you know what i think most people believe that having i think most people think well you know yeah it's all right to kill animals as long as you treat them ok i don't think we do treat them ok but i think that fundamental my. moral question you know that

this idea that it's all right for us to use them as long as we treat them well is is morally wrong and so i think that what you see with peta and you know this is just one of i think many problems with peta in terms of its its killing of animals a fairly high percentage of the animals it takes in and it's a norfolk facility you know it reflects the idea that well you know if you kill the animal painlessly you're not really harming the animal and again you know we can it's always good to take these things and put them in human context if i you know if i if i kill you it's better that i don't torture you first but even if i if i you know sneak in you know in the middle of the night and you know shoot you in a way that you don't feel anything i still harmed you i mean i haven't harmed if it would be worse if i caused you pain but by taking your life i've harmed you same thing applies and exactly out a humane way to murder someone i guess i wanted to bring up another contentious story which i thought you wrote about that sparked a viral debate about the legal animal hunt in south africa or as martha bachman

t.v. show host hosted that photo over on twitter both. of the slaughtered why and why do you think people reacted so vess really to this photo as opposed to other stories of animal abuse and suffering going on every day i actually got threats by e-mail from that story people get very upset with me about it i don't i mean look i think that people fetish i certainly animals and you know even we romanticize about lions and elephants and creatures like that so this woman shows up and she's she shot a lion and you know people thought that i was the friend that i wasn't defending it what i was saying is those of you who are criticizing it who eat animals or where animals why are you criticizing what she's doing you know i agree she shouldn't shoot the lion but i don't really see a lot of difference between shooting the lion and going to the supermarket tonight and buying a dead animal in a styrofoam package without animals probably actually in a worse life than the line had until it was. bachmann shot but you know so i mean

you know. it's sort of like michael vick i mean that's all these these things are variants i called the variations on the michael scene everybody gets upset with michael vick everybody you know people still example in two thousand and seven people still hate michael vick because he was involved in dogfighting and some property and i believe in virginia and and i you know my view is look you know why do we why do we get upset about what michael vick did because we get upset that he inflicted suffering and death on animals for no good reason there is only reason was entertainment he enjoyed it but the bottom line is what's our justification for killing fifty eight billion land animals that year and probably a trillion see animals what's our justification we don't need to eat animals to be optimally healthy indeed a lot of mainstream healthcare people are questioning or saying that eating animals is detrimental to your health but nobody's maintaining you need to eat animals and the animal agriculture is an ecological environmental disaster it is and i have to

jump in here that i think that if you're hitting on the crux of a really important issue which is of very detachment from you know food at ten table which really brings us to factory farming because as you're saying why in the dog you know having michael vick have to have these dogs fighting each other and it's really hits close to people who go not see where their food comes from today a really graphic video came out exposing the horrific treatment of dairy cows in the dish or know pizza factory where the workers are just blatantly portraying is animals i mean is this type of treatment and outlier or the norm when it comes to me i understand that a lot of these organizations like to have these expos a sort of talk about the abuses but the bottom line is is if the dairy farm were working perfectly well and there weren't any of these quote abuses and it's still be a horrific process i mean you know the animals have to be kept pregnant constantly their babies are taken away from them almost immediately after birth. and. i mean

where you it's the view in the street i mean that's what happens all the male can stand up is feel real is feel and and you know i think there's as much suffering and death in a glass of milk as in a pound of steak you can't really draw a morally coherent distinction between flesh and dairy products and so even if the dairy products are produced quote humanely and quote it's still horrible and you know and again it gets us back to the basic issue if you don't have to kill to live if you don't have to engage in violence if we really do take nonviolence seriously i mean this is really the basic point if you really take nonviolence seriously and it's not just you know talk if it's sincere and you believe why would you kill when you don't have to you know and i and this is the thing and i think it can be that you know people really. i'm i am seeing a real change in terms of how people respond to this activity to this to this issue i think a lot of people are recognizing that you really can't distinguish between the dog you love and the cow that you're eating philosophically or hitting on some really

fundamental points here area but humans have evolved in the mean you know right now we're talking about a wasteful culture i'm talk about forty percent of the food is completely wasted here i mean us in the second most meat per capita in the entire world how do we even begin to scale back as an enormous to waste and began that kind of expand consciousness about this issue when it so entrenched i mean you're right you're right it is and you're right but i also think that we many people are becoming aware of the ecological costs of animal foods and it's not just a question of factory farms in the bottom line is you can't produce animal food for the number of people who want animal food without having factory farms and even if you tidy them up and you get rid of what these groups call the worst that uses it still horrible but you know i think even if you don't care about animals there are important human rights issues here i mean with it would take between six and twelve pounds of protest planned. to produce one pound of flesh it can take hundreds or

thousands of times more water to produce a kind of flesh than a pound of potatoes or weak or something and the bottom line is that you know we're feeding a huge amounts of grain to animals that we're going to slaughter that if we took that grain we could basically feed the world i mean this is i mean even if you don't care about animals there are profound human rights issues here and when you when you said at the outset of your question we've evolved eating meat well you know some of us haven't and you know there's quite a bit of a dispute about how we evolved and what we evolved eating but the bottom line is look we've done lots of we've evolved doing lots of things we've evolved of being relentless sexists the idea that you know when you're making a decision as to what you're going to eat tonight that there's some sort of conflict between you and the cow or you in the chicken the answer is no that's not true at all you're just making a choice and if your choice is basically informed by nothing war compelling then palla pleasure then i question whether you really are committed to nonviolence or

whether you really take more reality seriously gary it will have a minute left but almost everything is made from animal products or at least it seems that way if one does not want to support this and is free what are some small steps for they can take without going completely even from the onset because i know that the huge means for a lot of people well you know i think we need to start thinking differently about it that it's not that big of a leap fruits vegetables grains nuts are great for you you know they're easy to get their. diet is actually cheaper then a guy with animal products but what i would say is look you can do it it's easy to go be going immediately but if you don't want to my recommendation is to go vegan for breakfast for a week or two when you see that your arms and legs don't fall off you know then then try you know be in for lunch for a week or two and then be going for dinner when you buy shoes next time don't buy leather you know avoid woolly well it's hard to really involve. you know. a lot of

a lot of suffering on the part of the sheep and we can avoid all this stuff if we stop the most important thing is that if we stopped eating them then you know our whole moral compass our own moral focus would change and that's the problem the problem we eat is we eat them we relate to animals most of us relate to animals when we're consuming them as food once we stop doing that our whole sort of perception changes about these things thank you so much and incredible insight very frenzy on a lawyer professor rocker's university amazing to have you on thank you very much for having me. coming up i'll talk to i'll talk reproductive rights but some star taylor from stop here without her. it. looks like. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mention of the constitution and. that's because

a free and open press is critical to our democracy albus. role. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the quote for the excellent work of our government and across several we've been hijacked like handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers but once i'm job market it on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem. rational debate and real discussion critical issues facing up to five ready to join the movement then welcome to the big picture.

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today north dakota supreme court heard arguments concerning drugs that are used to terminate pregnancies the entire state of north dakota currently has only one abortion clinic but these drugs are from a legal abortion would essentially be eliminated altogether and this case is just a microcosm of what's going on in courtrooms across the country from texas where dozens of abortion clinics were closed up to restrictive laws passed last summer to mississippi where a judge will hear arguments in the spring over whether to shut down the state's last remaining clinic to talk to me now with the war and women's reproductive rights as well as other issues facing females i'm joined us and star taylor founder of stop patriarchy dot org thanks so much for coming on samsara. high abbi thanks for having me on so why do you think we're seeing this assault on reproductive rights forty years after roe v wade. well i think that we live in a society that is fundamentally it's a patriarchal society it's in a patriarchal war world and forty years ago there was

a women's liberation struggle it was part of a broader revolutionary struggle is an upsurge of the one nine hundred sixty s. and seventy's women won the right to abortion but there is huge sections of society including huge sections of the ruling class who i have never gotten over that they have they have never let go of the view that women should be fundamentally treated as property of men and breeders of children i think historically we have to see it's a very very new idea in human history after literally thousands of years to view women as full human beings and to view women as something more than just a. breeder and a vessel for for childbearing and so you know it it's been forty years it seems like a long time but actually it's a very very short window in there are you know forces christian fascist forces government forces who really want to see this right taken away and of course those are the forces that are pushing through these restrictive measures all across the country there's been a significant victory though for pro pro-choice advocates in new mexico after

voters rejected a measure that would have entirely banned late term abortions how did activists win this one. in new mexico there was a ballot initiative that was started again by christian fascists dark ages forces to ban abortion after twenty weeks and this was not only it's an attack in albuquerque and new mexico women but it was an attack on women nationwide because at this point there are only four doctors in the entire country who openly do late term abortions two of them are in albuquerque new mexico and this is for women who are really most abortions occur in the first trimester but for women who are in extreme circumstances who desperately need a late term abortion because of a health complication because they couldn't get access earlier because of all the restrictions it's a small percentage but it's a very important percentage of women so this would have been abortion at twenty weeks in albuquerque but it would have had national repercussions and i have to say

it was an incredible victory and outpouring of people to defeat that initiative to stand up for women's right to abortion on demand without apology but it's sort of a bittersweet big victory because the fact that of fundamental right of women could even be put up for a vote is completely illegitimate and shows how far backwards we've been dragged and so while i hold the victory i'm glad stop patriarchy dot org was down in new mexico with other people down there fighting that initiative it is it's it's it's. it's a small the. ongoing war that we are still losing and we have to turn the tide over all sure it is amazing that we're still fighting these battles today how do you suggest pro-choice advocates talk to those who believe abortion to be murder because there's a huge bridge here dividing those two consensus of thought. i think you know it's for weight it's a good question for way too long i think pro-choice people have felt that they need

to water down what they have to say they need to seek common ground this is been the dominant view of the democratic party bill clinton started it safe legal and rare as if there was something wrong with abortion and hillary clinton called abortion tragic that obama's sort of signature on this issue has been the seek common ground but in reality i think this has really mobilized and disoriented several generations of young people and pro-choice people more broadly because when it comes to abortion there's really two fundamentally opposed views of women one views women as full human beings and recognizes that fetuses are not people borson is not murder women are not incubate a reason women need abortion on demand without apology without stigma without shame without restriction in order to leave full lives on the other side you really have a biblically fundamentalist view that women's duty is to bear children and obey their husbands it's the entire anti-abortion movement is against birth control

they're against sex education it's never been a fight about babies that there's always been a fight over the role of women and so i think that until people who support women's right to abortion come out and argue the truth that this is an update this is not babies but women are human beings that need full their full humanity recognized in law and culture until we come out and tell the truth that forcing women to have children against their will is a form of in slave meant and until we are willing to challenge people's assumptions on that and fight to change hearts and minds we're going to continue to lose because frankly there's been an onslaught for the last forty years from. people who who want to call fetuses babies who tell women that they're murderers and sinners if they have bore sins or if even if they use birth control and that has been a one sided chorus way too much for decades and it's time that we tell the truth and take back the moral high ground and wake people up and show them that we have to rely on ourselves to defend abortion rights and to to stop waiting for

politicians and to stop seeking common ground and to that end why is there such a stigma around strong women and also just the word feminist talk about her picture get out or stop patriot or read about a minute left. i think that there's a stigma against feminism for the same reason that there's a stigma on abortion which is that there is a vicious patriarchal movement that wants to see women slam back into the dark ages and it is it is a state of emergency that we're facing in the last three years over fifty abortion over sixty abortion clinics have been closed across this country if we don't get off the sidelines stop patriarchy dot org let an abortion rights freedom ride last summer we went from coast to coast and from north dakota down the mississippi and everywhere we went we met tons of people who had had abortions had had abortions and it was illegal had friends who died from illegal abortions it's time for people to come out to talk about these experiences to join us in the streets come see us at stop patriarchy or future of generations of women depend on what we do know

thank yous and star taylor stop it you're going to appreciate him coming on thanks . in the wake of nelson mandela as thousands of world leaders gathered in south africa to pay their respects but the media coverage of the memorial wasn't exactly focused on mandela. but first president obama has taken some heat from right wingers like me for doing things with world leaders that we find well let's just say questionable the famous bows to the saudis the handshake with dictator chavez and now this morning at the nelson mandela memorial service our commander in chief decided to shake hands with communist cuban dictator raul castro dignified honorable respectful all qualities you want to see your president not the qualities you'd say the president displayed when he chose to snap this selfie at nelson

mandela's memorial service today the photographer his name is robert ocean mit he took the photo of the selfie is a photographer for the a.f.p. he said obama and his british and danish counterparts were just acting like human beings and bad quote it makes me a little sad we are so obsessed with day to day trivialities instead of things of true importance and i couldn't agree more with that a a p photographer but unfortunately c.n.n. didn't heed those words of wisdom longer than the time it took to read them because they went on to continue the twenty four seventh's coverage of self and gate and by the way obama shaking hands with cuba's row house throw shouldn't be controversial because you were just the next guy in line for handshakes so shut up eric bolling no what happened here is that the corporate media simply turn mandela's funeral into a red carpet event gossiping about obama and manufacture an offense about an honest diplomatic gesture and while the media was superficially covering this memorial this country has reached

a very dark milestone no not debt deportations is apparently liberal obama is trying to set some kind of record on how many people a single president can deport seriously the obama administration has almost reached two million deportations faster than every other president in the country's history and while last year obama use an executive order to stop deportations of immigrants who came to the u.s. before seventeen he doesn't seem willing to do the same for the vast been. already of the almost twelve million undocumented individuals living in the u.s. so what's happening to the millions of people seventeen and older well some of them are going through a process called medical repatriation or just being adopted by many hospitals across the nation get this this policy allows hospitals to the port unconscious patients that they turn out to be undocumented these and humane policies speak much louder than any grandstanding on behalf of the administration and aside from the

fact these people have hardly any rights they're almost the fastest growing demographic in america's prison system this might have something to do with the current policy about places a quota on capturing so-called illegals the court of the washington post this policy requires that immigration agents detain an average of thirty four thousand people per day yes ice agents are forcing thirty four thousand people in the harassment attention every day by a country that was so-called founded by immigrants and while this agree just system is working just fine for the private prison industry u.s. taxpayers are the ones footing the bill but we don't have to be today upwards of sixty percent of americans supporting reform an immigration system that's so flawed that it's breaking up families clogging up our courts and costing us tens of billions of dollars every year. so while mainstream media waste their time demonizing obama for shaking hands with someone they consider the other we should change the conversation while we americans consider the other and start treating each other like human beings. and that's our show you guys join me again to break

this all over. crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want.

i know c.n.n. the m s n b c news have taken some not slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate cut that was funny but it's closer to the truth than the might think. ok it's because one whole attention and the mainstream media works side by side the joke is actually on the we're going to be coming back. at our teen years we have a different breaking the code because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not ok i've. got a set of jokes that will handle the thing that i've got to. it's

a classic. oversight. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mention in the constitution which says that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy schreck office. told. them you know i'm sorry and on this show we would be a little picture of what's actually going on will we go beyond identifying the problem trying to rational debate a real discussion critical issues facing america by him or ready to join the movement then welcome to the big picture. well i'm sorry but i washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big.