will obama can't fix a failing health care system doctors with very different opinions are going to weigh in and why of the millennialism abandoning the president and obamacare with the deadline approaching the sign that we're going to take a close look at the president's health care act from different perspectives it's all next on politicking with. politicking and larry king we start today with two doctors with very different views on the president's affordable care act in new york dr richard am reeling he's president elect of the association of american physicians and surgeons a practicing their frolics just in washington dr george s.

benjamin executive director of the american public health association he's a internist and emergency room doctor and he supports obama care we thank you both for coming dr i am willing an overview and briefly if you can what's what's the rub what do you have against this concept since up until obama get think we were the only industrialized nation in the world without a health care plan for its citizens. well we have a fractured and disjointed healthcare plan that is heavily government financed at this point almost fifty percent are on some sort of government can finance health care as of right now before obamacare and then we have this crazy private system where individuals purchase health insurance through their employer and that of course is a real problem because it limits the choice and it makes the. payment a benefit in lieu of salary and gives you an incentive to spend so we have this

massive third party system in reality very few people are without some sort of health insurance and that rationale for taking over this entire part of the economy was never a good one there were just like a relatively small number of people who had trouble getting insurance because of preexisting conditions and they could have been handled much more simply and more economically than the current program dr benjamin where is dr carolyn wrong well we have fifty million people who don't have health insurance that's a lot of people we also know that about forty four thousand people die each and every year simply because they don't have health insurance and i can tell you when i was practicing emergency medicine the first question anyone ever asked was what kind of insurance are you have so the affordable care act tried to build on our existing system provide as minimal disruption even though with having some challenges compared to what could have happened this is really minimal disruption

jamling how do you respond. well the fifty million figure was a fiction that was composed largely of people that were between jobs and didn't have insurance transient leave for part of the year and who eventually got insurance and it also included illegal aliens and people who were young and healthy and invincible and who felt that buying insurance was a bad deal for them so there is perhaps ten million twelve million hardcore uninsured who could have been handled much more economically and the help the affordable care act doesn't really address these people in fact it's putting people off of their insurance it's throwing people out of their insurance program they had perfectly good insurance that they were happy with that they bought themselves or next year you'll see that the employer sponsored health insurance is also going to get decimated that these are private contracts that individuals have with insurance companies that were arbitrarily dismissed by the federal government i find that

that's outrageous that your banker and you will admit it's off to a rocky start do you expect to see a big change well you know when it's time you do something this big is going to have some some bumps in the road but this is a good program it's a good plan i can tell you that fifty million is the right figure there are many many people into that in that number but i can just tell you anybody practicing medicine today anyone doing public health today can tell you that. the fact that there's no such thing as a hard core group of people uninsured it can happen in anyone and if you have a heart attack during that period when you have when you're not insured it's a catastrophic event for you and all the other nations of the world all the other industrialized nation of the world don't have this problem where the only one left . gary when you said i'm quoting you there are compelling reasons for patients to opt out of obamacare medicaid and even medicare exclaimed and how would you respond

to the fact that sure we are we lack so far behind other countries and in providing health for all of our citizens well i don't think that we do i think everybody more or less with very few exceptions get health care and the issue is health insurance or obamacare or some sort of a card like a medicaid card doesn't guarantee you access to health care it just says you got this card and then the conditions apply how are things actually going to get paid for and who's going to be participating in the plans for example if you have medicaid you're not going to see very many private physicians in new york i can tell you that so medicaid is horrible insurance yet that is part a big part of what obama wants to do he wants to expand medicaid and put more and more people onto it so there are studies out there that suggest that you're better off without any insurance than to have medicaid you'll have shorter intervals to

get care get to see a doctor and look. the real problem here is that we have a system of prepaid health care it is not truly health insurance they pay for every little thing which is absurd and that's why it's become so expensive we should have a system of perhaps universal catastrophic health care coverage and then everybody pays for their routine care out of pocket then we would have a rational system true insurance when you really need it and then individuals assume responsibility for routine expenses this would drive costs down this would stimulate free market changes in the health care system with doctors and hospitals and other providers competing for health care dollars and it would open up the system to true competition and this is what this sort of the system that we had before the third party system dominated which began with employers sponsored health

care dr benjamin how would you respond to that seems very sensible yeah well that's assume we had last of people who die we had last a disparities in health care medicaid actually is a decent insurance we know that people when they get medicaid mortality goes down we know that children who go on medicaid are able to go to school they have less days out of school we know kids who get dental insurance on their medicaid again less days out of school. they're always challenges when in time you have insurance but it's three o'clock in the morning the first thing that anyone ever asked you is what kind of insurance card do you have and the fact is we have an insurance based system and that's what we built upon doug cameron you said that obamacare represents a threat to physician autonomy what do you mean. well the government clearly wants to control how medicine is not only finance but practiced and what i

mean by this is that they are enforcing standards of care now you might think standards of care are really a good thing but the truth is everybody is very different and everybody requires individualized care not standardized care so the government is intent on compelling the practice of the standardized care according to what are called clinical practice guidelines which are merely consensus statements of a group of so-called experts many of whom by the way have very strong ties financial ties to the industries that are affected by their decisions in these patent in these panels and we are being asked to prescribe according to guidelines in a one size fits all fashion and this is actually happening with the quality performance measurement system that is going on payment for performance that whole concept is actually centralized government control over physician practice. and dr benjamin gordon not as a doctor concern you you know sort of why would anyone want to pay for something

that doesn't work why would anyone want to continue to provide care that isn't of high quality. we are in a profession and that profession ensures that. we work together and we share our experiences with others practice guidelines are advice for other clinicians based on the best evidence that we have and it isn't driven by the kinds of devious things and many things that we hear every day is driven by a true goal and desire to give patients the best quality and pay for performance why would anyone simply continue to pay for doing stuff again that we know doesn't work or when you've had a problem paying for performance means that you pay for good outcomes and you can do that in a way which protects physician decision making and that's what the affordable care act is designed to do. do you think philosophically that we have a right to health no we don't have

a right to health care and of course you can be healthy or sick and a lot of it depends on what lifestyle you choose to lead but right to health care implies that you are going to have to force a certain group of people in this situation doctors and other health care providers to somehow deliver that right it also obligates the government to provide access to that right through the federal treasury when someone becomes and they want to do that. when some of them come as a doctor don't they want to do that don't they want to provide health and that the purpose of being a doctor of course you know we're that we're in the healthcare business we're in the business of making sure that people are healthy that's what they help equations all about that's why i went to medical school so i can help people in oh and physicians on the you know with the city we like to think we're the centerpiece of the world but there are many other parts of the health care system there are

hospitals or from a suitable companies there are people who provide physical therapy their non-physician health care providers this is a comprehensive system and we're all designed to improve our health of our population and we're not the healthiest nation and we ought to be striving very hard to do that so this ought to be about health this not only be about protecting our personal prestige or anything like that and i would be making sure that we become the healthiest nation because we can do it again reeling with the richest nation why aren't we the healthiest. well we have some very bad lifestyles as you well know and we have some extremely bad eating habits people sit around a lot of much too much and get fat and they develop metabolic syndrome and type two diabetes and hypertension and cardiovascular disease that's a major reason we also abuse drugs we abuse alcohol we probably drive too fast or not well enough and we get into a lot of accidents so there are

a lot of inputs into the health equal asian so that input determines to a large extent the output of a health care system that's why judging outcomes just based on raw numbers is never a good idea and that's why united states you know has this low rank in the world health health organizations list which is absurd we're not thirty seventh in the world. by any stretch of the imagination people come here from all over the world to get the excellent care that we provide so we do try to provide the best quality care that is not going to come through a standardized approach is going to come through individualized care with individual physicians sits down with a patient and in a relaxed manner in a consultation room tries to figure out number one what's wrong with them so and how we can make them better you know and i would i would agree with that i would agree that it's about the physician patient relationship and i absolutely agree with the good doctor about that but the other hand i also know that most of what

makes us healthy occurs long before they go into the doctor's office so about you know walkable greeneville communities about safe housing that's about. not being in an environment that is toxic but having said that when you get sick there's no question this is a place to be in the united states but having done also said that there are many many things we can do to ensure that when we do get sick that everybody has equal access to our health system. thank you both very much we'll be calling on you again dr richard i'm rolling dr georges benjamin thank you both very much thank you thank you welcome thank you guys for an important perspective coming up next why are millennial abandoning obama and his health care system it will be right back.

playing. live. cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want.

that harvard university ensign to the politics poll says fifty seven percent of millennial zx disapprove of obamacare the president's approval rating is also down among young people his discuss all of this original fowler he hosts the richard fowler show and chris bedford associate editor the daily caller both join me from washington d.c. all right words you sum up briefly why you like obamacare well thanks for having me larry i think it's more than liking it it's with the impacts of this law already three million people back on their parents' health insurance health care insurance

young people who had preexisting conditions like asthma or early childhood arthritis or diabetes they can now get health care young women can now get birth control as part of the health care plan on on and on all the benefits of the affordable care act don't get me wrong there are some issues with the rollout of those most of the website which is why young people are sort of you know this in trepidation when it comes to engaging in rolling in the site but that doesn't mean that this is not a good thing for young people. chris what's your rub against that why i'm not exactly sure what is motivating each individual young person not sign up but why would they it's a bad deal where they're paying up their health care rates for young people have gone through the roof for the elderly it's dropped about twenty percent. it's very complicated the costs are all over trying to figure out how much you owe is all over and young people it's a hard sell people think they're invincible and that they built this law with them as a backbone is is glorious and we'll see if it turns around for them but right now young

folks are really excited about health insurance. that is true of people eighteen to twenty nine think they're going to live forever and it's hard to motivate them the term insurance is foreign to them isn't it but it is true that the young people aged eighteen nineteen to thirty would say that you know i'm never going to get sick i'm never going to get an x. and that's a whole ideal behind insurance larry like the whole idea is you never really sure when it's going to happen so you want to insure yourself for making sure that when it does what it is making sure when it does happen here the ability to get health care and i think that is what that's the benefits of getting insurance beyond that what we've heard from this white house what we've heard from the fix is that fifty percent of all those individuals that will qualify to be in the exchange will actually get a tax credit or they'll get a decrease in price for getting that health care insurance so right now the sticker shock for some young people out there might be just that sticker shock when they get it when they get into the website where they go to you know talk to the person that helps them and roland if they you decide to and all of people are actually fine of the be a lot less for them when they actually get ready to pay their first month's

premiums chris you will admit that it's smart for young people to sign up for insurance when they're young i think it's they may not be doing it because they think they're going to live forever but it would be intelligent to sign up it's smart definitely to sign up for some kind of insurance that's which plan you think is right for you if it's just catastrophic or if you need specialists. what didn't isn't it here's an example of one of the problems for young people signing up for hell. insurance with the with the money they going to get back from the government is how much it requires them to figure out what they're going to make in the next year and for a lot of us were switching between jobs bartenders don't exactly not maybe not the best at math and if you get that number wrong how much you're going to make and then calculate what money you're going to get back from the government you have to pay back to the i.r.s. to the i.r.s. which just adds to the complication and i think it makes a young person more likely to say whatever or right or wrong intelligently or not and not sign up for this and ninety five dollars a year the starting penalty for not signing up for obamacare there may be some some

plans in the private market that actually are marking more economical but the see the plume problem of that larry is because once the exchanges created the private the private market is part of the exchange i think that's the argument that we've seen those on the right try to make you go back to the private market but the current system for young people good health care is almost impossible to get health care in the current system the affordable care act of quote unquote obamacare allows you. to easy access to easy access to affordable health care and beyond that point if you decide just to get catastrophic care you can get that at a reasonable cost and you think about all the states where the governors decided to create their own exchanges so places like california maryland kentucky connecticut and all those states the insurance rates actually went down considerably whereas in the states we're got were republican governors decided not to mix them and the exchange they're going to pay a lot more which is politics getting in the way of people getting health care because it is more difficult to get health insurance now under obamacare than it was just a few years ago i took me a took me a day and

a lot of research but it certainly didn't take me a month like the stories we're hearing about now now i know that some of the website issues but that's part of a larger problem which they have created a very complicated law and the effects the ripple effects and the costs and the sticker shock that we've mentioned it's going to continue for years from now. the gil emanuel who's one of the founders of this whole program the brother of rahm emanuel from the white house chief of staff now mayor of chicago. recently said that no one has launched a big p.r. campaign to get them signed up there or that they've been too much concerned with fixing the website that they haven't concentrated on selling this you agree with that i definitely agree with that here's why i do agree with that larry if you think about ten years ago when they implemented medicaid part d. or medicare part d. rather even though democrats and agree with it and there was this big donut hole all everybody came together and they found they had their constituents they help their neighbors their friends their relatives get in rolled in medicaid part d.

and there was some there was some flaws in imitation but eventually worked and senior citizens get to see the benefits of the same goes for the affordable care act what we've seen from the right is a complete total demonization of the law the reason we want to repeal the law so much is because we've heard members of congress go out and completely break the law even if the same law that mitt romney their former two thousand and eight candidate implements in massachusetts so what you're seeing here is politics getting the best of the people instead of people being able to triumph over the politics which is resulting in people not being able to enroll people to understand in the system people think it's complicated when it's actually not complicated at all. chris do you buy the death spiral theory where it is insurance companies having to cover more and more older sicker americans causing premiums to saw and threaten the whole system it's definitely possible but whether or not a death spiral or not making economic sense has never stopped any government program from continuing i think they often discontinue and it is pour money into it until until they can't which hasn't hasn't happened yet but on the issue of

demonizing a lot of republicans have been demonizing law and saying it's bad for years and years and years the president was reelected by young people they still supported him despite that now if young people are turning on him it's not because of ted cruz it's because of their being affected on an individual level parents are being affected people are losing their coverage the republicans i would love to give them credit for having good talking points but they have they often are terrible delivering their message and it's the real life that's actually affecting people now so you're saying greece is like a plague on both buy houses neither side certainly neither side has the support of the american public it's kind of strange both away under fifty percent can't blame them i tend to agree if you go have you signed up for it i have i have health care in terms of my employer someone of the eighty percent of americans that will not have to enroll in the exchange but doesn't mean that i wouldn't sign of i have the opportunity to christy you have insurance i would do my employer. maleh meals why are they turned off do you think chris why are they turned off no

one's exactly sure but it looks like it's it it's the mix of them being young and not really caring to the sticker shock of the l. so the difficulties with the website which is starting to clear up although we're definitely reach another impasse now are people able to sign up but we don't know if the information is getting to the insurers which is going to cause a lot of trouble on january first and december twenty third is still very young person weeks and weeks away and they have until march to sign up so this might turn around for the for the obama administration but right now selling health insurance through a long lengthy process on a website for a huge price tag is it's a difficult sell for young people. rich it isn't the whole country in the sense that the lending else is in the down or on both sides it is a down on both sides where the truth of the matter is one thing that i think we can all agree on as millennial is we are sick and tired of the way washington does business we're tired of the gridlock we're tired of the bickering we're tired of the fighting all we want is solutions while we were led to this president twice

because he talked about solutions and the other guy in both situations just talked about the same old the same old washington politics what we need is candidates of people to understand our each other something to get something done the reason why we are having a problem of the affordable care act is once again the bigger ng has overcome the benefits of the law three million people are back on their parents' health care insurance that's nothing to sneeze at we're talking about people who are pursuing their law degrees getting their master's degrees getting their ph d. and pursuing the american dream and now they have a chance to finally get health care beyond that fact women can now get women oh young women can now get birth control as part of the health care coverage and those are just some of the benefits of this law and i think the truth of the matter is we will judge as law what happens today or tomorrow on the twenty third on march thirty first we will judge this law three four five six years down the line when millions of americans have access to care to access the care millions of americans get a chance to go to the doctor and ultimately america becomes a healthier country. kristie you see young americans turning away from politics

maybe not getting interested not interested in running for office i think people are relieved and i've heard people are so interested in politics but everybody's pretty disgusted. i guess president barack obama went talking about solutions but now people including young people have seen his solutions i think anybody would prefer ted cruz reading dr seuss to distil to losing their health care at least it doesn't really hurt them. wrenches there's going to be a big issue in the. media elections next year i will see what happens we'll see if the katter that had come first of how it would larry but i think what young people are going to be looking for in this midterm elections i don't think any young person even though the republican party wishes they did they don't see this in a vacuum they look at they look at the entire political landscape they see the fact that we have had a congress that won't pass immigration reform we see they see the fact that we have a congress that won't pass an employee nondiscrimination act we have a congress that won't pass the pay parity pay of their paycheck act which says a woman should make the same of a man makes all these things are going to basically go against the party that's

blocking all these great piece of legislation and that's the republican party the republican party they're going to have a really hard time convincing millennial that they are the party for them when you have folks like ted cruz going out there or rick santorum comparing the affordable care act to a part of apartheid we have some big public in the big games to make up and i told you they could do it. chris what do you see in the off year it's still too soon to check of the things look a lot better for republicans now than they did just a few months ago before the obamacare rollout no president with his low approval rating has as obama has had his party and never ever does well and during elections and i don't think they're going to do well but but you're right republicans do need to start talking about issues and explain millennialist why by not only is the president wrong but they have something that they can that that millennial can like they've got a solution for american people and so far they've had a lot of difficulty getting that message out ridge really is the nominee in the democratic nominee in two thousand and sixteen i don't know i think the jury salon

that with larry i think there's a lot of folks hoping that we will see a female nominee even really wanted space available right or might there could be a couple of others i don't know what i don't know what's happening there i think we'll wait to see i think the first thing the democrats have to get through is the twenty fourteen election they have to maintain the senate i mean gain back the house of representatives and i think if we do both of those then we could focus on twenty six team but there's problems that we have to focus on today including immigration reform passing the employment discrimination act and the budget deal and the present a republican catch your eye i'm kind of waiting to see what governor mike pence i know he's new he's new as a governor but i think he's a really interesting candidate i'd like to see if he comes out but right now there's so many possible republicans to choose from and it's going to be interesting to see which ones rise which ones fall and who have been talking about just a few weeks from now thank you both very much learned chris thanks for the stimulating conversation i want to take a moment to talk about an incredible man nelson mandela. passed away on december

fifth in johannesburg i had the honor of interviewing him a few times and then the last time interviewed him was in two thousand and then a year later i found myself in johannesburg on a series of speaking engagements for a group of banks the former president mandela had heard i was there and who enjoyed the interview so he invited me to his home for lunch we had a wonderful lunch he wore suspenders in my honor and of a for that that and the next morning i had breakfast with mr de klerk who freed mandela so here i was in this an unusual situation of being with a man who spent twenty seven years behind bars with a man who freedom and they both together won the nobel peace prize and what i adored about nelson mandela was not only his love of country but his gentleness his sincerity and his ability in incredible circumstances to forgive

was the highest christian ethic. i know of no great a figure in the twentieth century than the late nelson mandela rest in peace thanks to all my guests for joining me today for my viewers out there want to hear from you you can join the conversation on my facebook page and share your thoughts on twitter by tweeting me at kings things the power. it's all for this week's edition of politics see you next week from. the. technology innovation. developments around russia. the future covered.

plus some of the new alert animation scripts scare me a little. there is breaking news tonight and we are continuing to follow the breaking news. alexander's family cry tears of joy and great things out there that there had to be added brenda arquette a court of law found online is a story made for movies playing out in real life.