it. was like the if you go that you know the price is the only industry specifically mention in the constitution. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy correct health risks. that are you know i'm sorry and on this show we reveal the picture of what's actually going on and we go beyond identifying the truth rational debate real discussion critical issues facing america ready to join the movement and welcome the big picture. book on time our washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture. another day and i was

school shooting almost one year to the day after the newtown massacre a gunman opened fire at a colorado high school this afternoon killing himself and injuring three others how many more tragedies is he going to take to get meaningful gun control this country that and more into its big picture and could barack obama actually be worse than richard nixon when it comes to first amendment violations i'll ask james c. goodell in tonight's conversations with great plans. you need to know this tomorrow marks the one year anniversary of the shooting at sandy hook elementary school in newtown connecticut for twenty six children and adults lost their lives and as if we needed any more reminders of just how bad the epidemic of gun violence is in america there was another school shooting just hours

ago a student with a gun walked into arapahoe high school and sent an e-mail colorado with the intent of confronting a cheap teacher and shot at least why. student who's in serious condition student shooter that apparently took his own life according to law enforcement officials arapahoe high school is located in centennial colorado a suburb of denver and just miles away from columbine high school site of a tragic one thousand nine hundred ninety shooting and you are a movie theater where james holmes opened fire in july of two thousand and twelve killing twelve people and injuring seventy others meanwhile all across this country americans are dying every day thanks to senseless and completely preventable gun violence although it's now been almost a year since the newtown massacre and gun control movement is still fighting an uphill battle one hundred nine different gun laws have been passed by state legislatures across the country since december fourteenth two thousand and twelve thirty nine of them have tightened gun restrictions and made it harder for people like the newtown killer to get weapons of war but seventy of those one hundred nine

laws have loosened gun restrictions so why haven't lawmakers been able to make more headway in the fight to curb gun violence in america well it all comes out of the n.r.a. to money to corporate control of our lawmakers let's rubble. join me for tonight's big picture rumble our mark errol libertarian commentator joining the call williams democratic strategist in turkey and dutch martin advisory board member of project twenty one a contributor to townhall dot com thank you all for join thank you thank you as i mentioned in the intro it's been a year tomorrow it will be a year for sandy hook and the only law that congress has passed that anything to do going into old is reauthorizing basically this twenty five year old law the invisible firearms undetectible firearms act. you know which is nothing i mean it's

just it's not it doesn't even quite approach common sense meanwhile the n.r.a. through president john moore. of the colorado state senate out of office and senator angelo de jure on our gear on. both voted out of office in a special recall election where basically just. the n.r.a. base showed up for this thing. aren't these given that the n.r.a. is funded by by and large even though they have a fairly large membership base they're funded by and large by big weapons manufacturers this is big money here we're talking about isn't this a another strong argument for getting money out of politics the vast majority of americans actually want sensible gun control legislation mass majority of n.r.a. members actually want the gun show loopholes closed duch well you know what this isn't about the first of all me just say look any school shooting this tragic however you however way you slice it it's not so much about gun control i'm not

against sensible gun control legislation sensible gun laws but this is about mental illness ok this is about the fact that in our society there are a lot of mentally ill mentally unstable people in our society and that's nothing to be ashamed of what needs to happen is that the the cloud of shame in guilt needs to come off of those who are genuinely sincerely suffering from mental emotional cycle so this so obamacare including mental illness and making sure that everybody in america is covered for that is your solution i didn't say obamacare was the solution ok you better then let's to go back to you know i mean richard wilkins and kate pickett have done some brilliant work over equality tris they wrote a book called spirit level a previous book called why inequality matters and what they found and i don't we don't quickly have the graphics here to throw up on the screen but we've done entire shows on this is that as any quality increases in countries suicides go up

and mental illness goes up as an absolute demonstrably linear step by step relationship between the two between inequality and mental illness between inequality and so. because of the inequality that's the question i would have the largely tax policy all you think these authors know those authors don't ask. if you ask any economist what causes you to be taxed why would i would i would say that a lot of the inequality that happens in society yes a lot of it you're born into but at the same time it doesn't necessarily mean it can be your that is supposed to be your permanent place in life a lot of people and studies have shown this a lot of people who are born on the lower end of the economic spectrum through hard work education learning a skill learning a trade. or at least twenty one. they move. for reaganomics you know we were the most socially mobile. now we are the least socially mobile country of the thirty four countries in the o.e.c.d.

countries here's the here's social health and social mobility problems based on inequality this is a graph from pickett's work income inequality you know the ratio of the top twenty to the bottom twenty and health index of health and social problems and you can see the usa is like off the scale because our inequality is so bad you go all these problems it's just i mean anyway but but i you know i want to just do this with you . my thoughts on this one getting back to your position with regard to mental illness i agree that mental illness is something that we should dress as a society and you know that's why it is part of obamacare and coverage that it's now allow you know for people who are insured under obamacare but in addition to that you also do have to look at the legislation i think both n.r.a. members are in favor of legislation that will take out of the loopholes with regard to purchasing guns online with regard to purchasing guns at gun shows when you go

to purchase guns either one of those venues they do not look for a do a background check with regard to your criminal record with regard to your mental. the way that they would if you go into actual gun store and it off the very same state to state and so we do need to look at those you know getting rid of those particular loopholes in addition to some of the mental health you know when they did in colorado the n.r.a. came in through these threw the bums out as a were you know. the democrats who led the effort and i got the recall i mean this is this is mean thirty two people on average every day is killed in america from got my last cent but again i again i say look there's nothing wrong with looking at our gun laws that we currently have on the books i don't think we need to add more i don't know there's something very wrong that i mean the mark they take up take these guys out of them well interestingly when this is a tragedy there's no doubt about that i think it has a lot to do with mental health but when this happens the first thing we want to do is talk about his passing laws you have to remember everything that he did coming

out of the school grounds with the shotgun shooting people those things are all against the law and the idea that this individual clearly suicidal because he committed suicide the idea that more laws for suicidal and homicidal people if we pack on more laws when they're clearly either criminal or they're mentally ill to the point they're not going to follow the laws to me what he did was against the law and i do believe he has some more laws australia has a summary i think we need to go boy beyond passing some laws must really have a series of these mass shootings that was like a whole bunch of them over over a period of about a decade and a half and they finally said enough you know there is no right to own a gun anymore australia and they did they as to the massive buyback program they bought back hundreds of thousands of guns and destroyed them basically the population voluntarily disarm guns are relatively rare australian and they're very hard to get and you have to be licensed you have to be insured and they haven't had a mass shooting since then and that's been like what fifteen years have been like that i'd throw i throw another wrinkle into this and one thing is the reason we have so much money if the idea is that the n.r.a. is too powerful for the corporate lobby for guns to powerful look at who is the

largest who buys the guns who gives the corporations their power it's cyclical the government buys think a. the drug war the endless wars the government of united states government does not make guns law enforcement federal law enforcement our military they carry guns made by the same manufacturer and the driver who back to you and we're going to want to work for you three yeah i mean ok let's very cyclical they're the biggest customer and then people are going to it's i did together i think ok well earlier this week along with this thing of money and i still think money and politics is a big problem i think that this demonstrates connecticut governor dan malloy dannel malloy assigned the first g m a labeling law united states for other northeastern states have to pass similar laws before it goes into effect this way they minimize the harm as it were to one state's food producers it becomes a regional thing. you know and doing doing it this way makes a lot harder for monsanto to throw money at it but monsanto's block this in california they blocked it in washington state i believe it was last just point

tons and tons of money into it american people have a right to know what's in the food they eat well i saw somebody say it is a fundamental right i certainly don't think it's a fundamental right it it's a first amendment right to express it if it's there if you will and fight it out but interestingly enough here governor malloy and i think i'm attribute the right quote i read the story quickly governor malloy basically said people should demand this information and the truth is i agree with that but the government doesn't need to pass a law to force it out the market if people demand it one of the companies if people really demanding it morning exercise a fundamental right to know what's in the food they will seek out those producers the do that they will demand at the market will react in the end they will disclose this information as a competitive tool if people are out there really wanting it we're a little bit different what they're saying is the governor's going out there and saying you shouldn't care about this you're not demanding it from the producers themselves so we're going to pass a law enforcement to do with what we found a cold one for example we started labeling sodium content food is that suddenly somebody people suddenly people started paying attention and food that's now reason

for things like that and i think you need to disclose this i mean it's kind of misleading when you have these. on the market you're labeling them organic but then they're made with products that have been genetically modified to a degree and so it's just really a consumer protection type of action i don't see the harm in putting a label on there it is not any different than having the sodium listed the sugar content is just stating that you know these soybeans just have a half a minute what's wrong with telling people what's going on the group mark in the sense that there comes a point where you have to basically let the government make the government move away and let the free market decide because the free market is going there is whenever there is a free market it's just the government doesn't allow the free market to work the way it's supposed to all these regulations most of the serial says two or three companies make most of the bread stays two or three cups and you have maybe most of them bonded cereal and they're going to have a choice. of course they have choice did have an alternative i realized oh i don't

lie sure i'm going to have. pancakes i made more of tonight's big picture rubble i want to break. for you. it's pretty tough. stay where it's not story. let's get this guy like you but. stead of working for the people on the beach. right runs to. the bedroom it was. it was. very hard to take a. life that had sex with her

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about the size big picture rubble with me tonight marc harrold nicole williams dutch martin let's get back to it iceland is sending their banks there is there a prism through your icelandic banks have been have been literally sent to jail the c.e.o. of bank the biggest bank in eyes of the c.e.o. jamie diamond of iceland just got five and a half years in prison the former chairman of the bank also got five years in prison who also would be jamie dimon is he the c.e.o. and chairman i don't know whether you and the lloyd blankfein why can't we thought why can't we send our pranksters to jail ronald reagan sent banks to jail i mean to do charles keating ronald reagan through his but jail you know much to john

mccain's sugar and still nicole why are we doing i'd say i mean senator warner warner she acts the same question i think a couple months ago in one of the committee hearings you know it doesn't this activity borderline criminal some of the things that these banks have been getting away with the reason that we got into the recession to begin with in two thousand and eight someone needs to pay the price for it and i understand you know there are you know now giving billions of dollars an ounce of the federal government to you know the terms of settlement for these various lawsuits with the d.o.j. but if that really enough isn't it j.p. morgan just admitted not just to screw it up or something or breaking rules but to climbs actual. a criminal admission and you know it's like if the four of us had gotten together after a show and you know gone down and robbed the bank down here you know and just made off with say five hundred bucks apiece and then set off oh yeah we had known it there here's a thousand dollars we'll pay a fine and they would have

a conversation so it's like you know why why why is that part of this is criminal when the banks to do it this is their only capitalism and that you know they're too big to fail they're too big to jail you know you really don't do it after the first of all the laws are written away that are usually forgiving to the corporate actors in the first place so if you can actually be convicted then they're going to give them light sentences white collar crime is traditionally given a lesser sentence but where does this come from it comes from you look at the contributions to the major party candidates in both parties goldman sachs is right up there towards the top in both parties you know it's interesting i was just walk past the treasury building what's right across from the treasury building a bank of america right there you can look out the windows and see it missing is very much bought and paid for but it's true it's too big to fail so they bailed him out and then it's too they're too big to jail i know i'm using that over but they're not going to put these guys in prison these are major players in this town and the government pretty much bought and paid for so dutch do we stop with the bought and paid for by repealing the. so is united unfortunately no because as mark

said that's basically how things work i don't like it i mean i saw how that worked in one thousand nine hundred five when reagan setters eighty six were able to you know what i am not going to make and i'm not going to make excuses or rationalize when it comes to breaking the law i think is wrong but mark said the reality in which we live is that you have crony capitalism so how can we get out of jail free card how do we change how do we change it well it all comes down to the individual when there is enough groundswell outrage and backlash by ordinary citizens then something is going to change so we've got to get out of the streets i think that's what the occupy movement was all about was you know down with the occupy movement i didn't say i was with the occupy movement i'm with i'm with the dutch marist martin movement ok basically saying you know it's all up to the end to be. my thing is this if it adversely affects me then yes i'm going to say something ok not to minimize it but what the same cast our country yeah exactly and people just to be out of their homes absolute force is their suicides there's probably you know child abuse there are even homicides and it is hard some of these banks to just arm and jamie diamond is still pulling down you know millions of dollars a week i mean or

a month there what is that like marx that is that crony capitalism and unfortunately it least in this life some people do not pay for their crimes ok well elizabeth warren has as nicole pointed out senator elizabeth warren seems to be the only person that's you know seriously taking this stuff on after this. third way think tank which turns out their entire board of directors is investment bankers not the entire but the vast majority of their board of directors are investment bankers and they attacked her in a wall street journal article saying that she was leading democrats all over the populist cliff was there phrase something a letter saying. you know who who are you funding which think tanks are you funding and it was very interesting we got to use a clip of it with one talking. anyone else want to tell me about the last time you took wall street bank to trial. you know i just want to note on this they're

district attorneys and u.s. attorneys who are out there every day squeezing ordinary citizens on sometimes fairly thin grounds and taking them to trial in order to make an example as they put it i'm really concerned that too big to fail has become too big for trial that just seems wrong to me. and. the big question is why is it only elizabeth warren why why is ted cruz not saying this the great populist who's going to occupy the floor of the senate why is john mccain the maverick now talking about this i mean he should have some experience i mean he's part of the keating five you've been you know basically bribed by the guys before you think he was he's learned from anybody you know out there saying hey you know it's or harry reid and simple o.c. or hillary clinton i mean why is that both sides of the aisle. crickets crickets dutch again banks are big political contributors number one number two so let's get

the money out of politics ok well we're going to we can talk about that till the cows come home but number two i think i'm going to play devil's advocate and say i think that senator warner has a bit of a famed scam because when this when these bank folks criticized her on the wall street journal she decided to go after them and in a backdoor type of way said ok who you funding ok you know where you get your money from well i mean number one thing turns and banks are under no legal obligation to the polls that information unless under you know federal subpoena or something i bet personally i mean i don't i don't want to minimize some of the ones concerns but i think she needs to toughen up a little bit by think as she's doing. and i'm just. in the call yeah first of all i don't think she's had it and i think that she's asking the questions that all of it. she's the only one out there asking the tough questions and. it's a transparency thing i don't think there's anything wrong with asking

a corporation or athy any other entity to be transparent with the source of their funding that's all she stated but why is she asking that all of a sudden what is going to certainly merit career the art of the consumer protection bureau. that mean that sort of background have background as a protection bankruptcy looking out for the little people that is what she's been known to have that's fine i don't have a problem of that and that and she has every right to advocate that but i mean it works of the american people mark people want somebody to take on the banks toure's well i think people do listen why is there not a republican job and spent well because again you know you used to say bank robbers robbing banks because that's where the money is our money was politicians go to banks because that's where the money is they need to run these races that we are expensive and yeah absolutely you know what's happening here i would be completely against i mean there are disclosure laws there are subpoena their service a process but they would have to disclose this but she's asking the question they don't necessarily have to answer it if they really don't want to but i don't think there's anything wrong with an elected leader standing up just asking this question

where are you getting your money we disagree on citizens united on this panel but i don't know many people that disagree with the second part the eight to one about transparency transparency in this country and jay carney was taken from the press this week transparency in this country needs to become an issue that's not partisan if anything we can disagree on the issues but we need to know what's going on out there and what's in our food and well no i think we can demand that but that what's in our food is a little bit different what's in it because what's in our food is something the market will react to she has the right to ask this question they don't have to answer it i don't think every think tank should have to come out and that's why i don't i don't think that there is a marketing a distinction i think the market is so consolidated by monopolists in the food industry just like it is in the banking industry that there is no such thing as a free market anymore basically what we have is is is crony capitalism and monopoly i think we have a great deal of crony capitalism i don't think there's any question about that and one of the consequences of this is that people are working for less than fifteen dollars an hour. the study just came out showing this is from the alliance for

justice side between the official end of the recession and two thousand and twelve the total number of jobs categories in which the median wage is less than fifteen dollars an hour increased by more than three point six all those jobs paying fifteen dollars an hour or more decreased by four million in other words good paying jobs you disappear and be replaced by low wage jobs that make it nearly impossible to i would say survive but certainly very very difficult for his family and it is a demonstration that the call the government should be the employer of last resort that it's time for us to go back to what f.d.r. did and say you know what capitalism has failed if businesses will not hire people i will hire. one i agree with the sequester is a good example of where the government loses jobs how that affects the economy and when the government hires people how that also effects the economy and affects the the middle class so so to speak here in the united states and i think what you're

seeing this is just an example really of the shrinking of the middle class is what is kind of in the way of the working poor exactly is the way that i see this this is just part of why you have this movement going on in a variety of different states i live in maryland and actually in the county where i live you know our county council had passed a bill to increase the minimum wage and so you see this movement going along all across the country in maryland in d.c. and washington state to increase the minimum wage above from the federal minimum wage because there's no way a person can survive by just making the minimum wage heaven forbid you do married with children there's no way a family of four can survive off of even eleven dollars an hour let alone what the kind of federal minimum wage is so yeah i mean if the minimum wage was based off of inflation it would be roughly about ten dollars or so went out right now but i don't know who is based on prototype. twenty dollars i mean this is this is this is

what the what the what the corporate c.e.o.'s are big and i mean it actually was based on corporate c.e.o.'s are making would be closer to thirty or forty dollars an hour but productivity has gone up so much you are going to let me just say this ok from an economic standpoint all right if you're taking a minimum wage job and you expect that to be your career you've got bigger problems on your hands having said that look a minimum wage job is not supposed to be a long term thing it's supposed to be for those who are just starting out our trade policies made it might you know i don't know if you would not have the problem is that you people who aren't able to get those jobs that are higher than minimum wage that's part of not only get a lot of people i mean the studies that show that jobs that pay roughly fifteen dollars not one there's seven people thirteen apply only average for that one particular job when you get to higher status the higher dollar amounts you have more and more people apply for the i or we stop and you just aren't if the jobs were there people would take that they're not there yet how do they not going to go to working at mcdonald's we're going to win people to anything that they can to put

food on the table to people who have been ok since you big government folks are all about the government stepping in here's the best way that the government can step in to increase jobs lower taxes that's what we were did this exact it's really worth what it really lays out thirty two years to do exactly. what the reagan tax cuts park last twenty seconds of yours there should be no minimum wage or prices the most vulnerable people out of the market the idea that i know we're short on time but i'd say the idea of the government coming in and not only wanting to raise the minimum wage it's going to really make it harder for some people to buy those products at the wal-mart at the mcdonald's but the idea that they would guarantee you a job i mean they're going to guarantee your health insurance are going to guarantee you a job obviously i'm against all of these things this is one of theirs and this is one of the rights that this is not let me there's no way you can send a bill or i mean this is clearly getting into mandisa where we are out of it all thank you so much barack obama first ran for president back in two thousand. seventy thousand and eighty sharply criticized the bush administration's assault on

civil liberties but after five years in the oval office obama is now drawing comparisons to richard nixon what happened last james c. goodale who was general counsel for the new york times during the pentagon papers case in tonight's conversations with great minds but. i would rather ask questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question. i know c.n.n. the m.s.m. b.c.

and fox news have taken some not slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's closer to the truth and might think. it's because one call attention and the mainstream media works side by side the joke is actually on you. and our team is we have a different approach. because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not how. you get a sense of jeff's well handled in a setting that. for

tonight's conversations with great minds i'm joined by someone who played in this central role in one of the most important first amendment cases in modern american history change see good was vice chair and general counsel for the new york times published the pentagon papers and led the paper's legal team in its fight against the nixon administration he's often called the father of reporter's privilege remains to this day a powerful advocate for the freedom of the press in addition to his legal work goodale as taught at yale and why you fordham university his new book fighting for the press the inside story of the pentagon papers and other by.