mental health from patil sucked american corporate it also belongs to the washington metro area transit authority properties of a dentist aids page trend and trademark office. choose your language calling we care we know if. someone. chooses to use the consensus you can. choose the opinions that you think to. choose the stories that impact the life choose the access to your office. well welcome to worlds apart this year marks fortune years since arlen joined the

european union but you don't see much celeb rationed here and that may be due to the fact that few have paid a higher price for this integration than the arash people each one of whom already contributed almost nine thousand tourists in taxes to effectively safeguard the euro was that worthwhile to discuss that i'm knowledge oin by the country's minister for european affairs pascal donahue mr donahue thank you very much for your time i know that when i was celebrating the thirty if thirtieth anniversary of joining the euro there was this whole program of exhibitions and conferences to solve their cation but we don't see. that level of celebration this time around and i wonder whether it is due to all this perhaps it reflects maybe a broader more skeptical reassessment of joining the e.u. well the main reason for the change in diet mood is the scale of the economic

crisis that audience house and jerked over the last five years. we gone through a period in which our economy went to a very sharp decline we saw on employment go up do we how to deal with a very very difficult. crisis within our banking system. and because of all of dos it's understandable that people are not read the mood to celebrate anything. because of the difficulty that many people feel. we are seeing for the first time now in five years some saw and the scale of difficulty is coming to an end we're seeing up. private sector create jobs for the first time now since two thousand and eight and our economy is now one to thirty year of growth. hope if you were to come back in a few more years time to look at the next face of where we stand you'll see a very big difference from where we are now well i mean did hope to see

a big difference couple of years from now but i think some would argue that one of the reasons why people are so skeptical about this whole european integration people in ireland i mean it was because of that having you in occur all that private banking doubt upon themselves and. i wonder whether you think that aren't would have been pressured then obligated it's you all that banking that if it wasn't a member of the e.u. citizen number of assumptions in your question that i would challenge i think they're wrong the first assumption is that there is a majority of people skeptic skeptical of the number and as a certainly increased from what i'm saying it has increased hasn't greece but that's very different from saying now inferring that the majority of people are against are scandalous ever injured and i think there is an emphasis and it's growing we were able to as an inference in your introduction as well on your question the. a majority of people are against the level of integration that we

have or where we stand in our relationship with europe at the moment. that's not to say that the russian now zero four people are accepting dot integration it's the same house changed over time we joined the european union as a country whose level of income was below the european average despite everything that's happened we're now at least in line with and ahead of us in some cases in terms of your specific question regarding banking destiny that's a very very controversial question in our politics let alone european politics. but i think there's a number of facts that we have to lay low. the first one is the. irish decision to put in place a banking guarantee how can doubt a time of global orthodoxy regarding the failing banks need to be supported.

so to see incurring bank purely as a result of our relationship our membership of the european union is an analysis that i would i would challenge absolutely the you mentioned this prevailing are for the exits and i think one country that was sort of subjected to the same sort of pressure was iceland which was a time also on track of joining the e.u. it have massive crisis similar crisis to yours but the icelandic officials decided to defy that pressure and obviously they were also you know sometimes threatened sometimes told that nobody would ever deal with iceland again that but here they decided to decline bailing out banks and nowadays if you look around their economies back on track it's growing they're getting those loans easily the unemployment is falling i mean i think it's ultimately a different country to emerge from from this crisis do you think be. irish people

have the right to feel cheated because better than they were they were told that there was no other way out of this crisis but obviously there was a way a shorter way and probably last demanding way to completely different economies. is not a member of a single currency zone we are so because of all of us we benefit greatly from. the european union fabiano but it's completely different i mean if you look at the icelandic economy and if you look at the contrary we have a very very large stock of foreign direct investment and irish investment across the. huge spread of industries. we can deliver here in our land because we are members of the single currency zone so you would lose all of that if you decided no to no longer i didn't say that's what i did say our membership of the single currency zone has given us certainty of exchange rates

dollar has allowed us to develop and export performance dollars how to sustain and develop our economy that's a fundamental difference for us is it i mean oh you mean we in many countries in europe get those same advantages without first being members of the like a european union role for example norway or iceland for example and iceland doesn't that that's wrong though iceland is not of the level of state x. for performance that we do but if you look at the difficulty of the icelandic banking system has went true if you look at the fact that a currency that allowed them to revalue would stay soffit. their fundamental differences between a our country and there are some of them now that i don't claim that they are the same can i take it from your answer though that if your government was in place back down that you would have made the same decision knowing it would have

transacted although you can't take over when you get to a situation where a country is unable to fund its public services. and a country is unable to fund its banking system it doesn't have any good choices left. to attribute to us a some may do to our membership of the european union is something that i would fundamentally reject. while on the contrary it can have different relationships with the euro were the european union as you correctly say. the force the stars have allowed to get to where we are much of both parties to forces are behind the union now in terms of your particular question regarding what our government would do. i would have gone i mean it's impossible as you know to look back and say walk would you have done differently with the benefit of hindsight one of the when you were listening to that decision though now and even to despite the fact that it was taken by a different government when did i defend this decision. you just said that you had

no better choices and i put it out to you that you actually had no. interest similar to the one that iceland took and i had a chance to interview the president of iceland just last month and he was indeed speaking about this prevailing european orthodoxy almost intimidation by the european officials that you absolutely have to accept all that private dav and put it on to your people and they defied that that choice unfortunately you went along that proposal and i think it's again going to take your country where you see a chance to recover from that and you've got to inferences and all dot dot are fundamentally wrong the first inference that you've got is. pressure that you're talking about about orthodoxy with the european in origin what you're doing if you're associating a global economic orthodoxy at the time no no you know these are all insults easy don't know what is abuse by doing here this is going to do this it's the european

origin if you look at what was happening in america at the time and if you look at the aftermath of what happened with the lehman brothers you had central banks all over the world that made the decision to say they wouldn't let a bank fail to say that is a european decision is simply wrong if you look at the challenges that we had across the time period where we should treat deficit but nope that we could not fund ourselves what i simply said is twenty countries gets to the point it doesn't good choice of opensource and if you look at the decisions that loads of countries have made i mean you can as i said from the start. but you simply cannot compare iceland in ireland but of course the real thing would be in a few years' time where we're both economy stand and i hope what you will see happen is that the forces of growth that are beginning to develop india are chicago

me that they are going to accelerate in the coming years and i believe that our membership and participation in the european union has been a very strong force to happen now in order to achieve that growth that you're just alluding to some economists say that our land needs to grow at least by three to four percent annually to get out of this debt crisis. you'll need. bright well educated workforce but on the other hand you know our land is probably the country that faces the highest in europe i read somewhere that every six minutes one irish person leaves his country and there's been a number of status recently that show that it's not just the number the sheer number of people living but biquad of the human capital to put it crudely because people who are living tend to have higher education they're more likely to have college degrees can you really achieve that growth when so many of your best and

brightest are leaving the country yes and the reason for that is that we have been true to before unfortunately. we went through an experience like this in the one nine hundred eighty eighth and the one nine hundred seventy s. i left ireland myself for six years to go and work abroad. precisely because i wanted to go off to opportunities that were not available in the dock point what then happened as we have done before in our history is we created an economy and society that encourage people to come back again of course you correctly acknowledge the fact that we have. immigration rates true our entire history but also during this part of the christ. that's due to part of dot of course the start we have one of the highest birth rates within europe and you were probably know one of the long term drivers of economic success is the ability of a country to be above its for placement ratio notoriously he says he's here people

brittle you need to grow now i mean you would have to wait twenty years to you know allow that new generation to grow up i mean the richer you growth now introductory generation has grown up i mean if you look at the they're living there they're doing worth it sorry not all of them really if you that's wrong remember you only are a thousand people left since two thousand and eight that's the highest level since i believe the. previous crisis of course but alongside the us. economy now has one of the highest levels of private sector job creation of any country within europe and we also have a large number of people abroad that are interested to coming back home to ireland to see how they can accelerate that level of job creation and that level of company and technological creation but why does unemployment down. fall saw slowly i mean as far as i understand it only went down by less than one percent if you say that

there is such a fast you know speed of creating jobs in the private sector and indeed but i think that's an amazingly. one sided interpretation to take of what's happened in ireland across the knuckles last two years because of course you're right to say the level of unemployment has come slowly many economists are now saying down in our land what we have achieved over the last year is doubt we have achieved growth for this job creation as opposed to the other way around which is what normally happens. and we're now seeing our economy generate jobs at around three thousand new jobs promote. after going for many years and losing them by eight thousand jobs per month mr donahue really have to take a short break now but when we come back our land has a unique experience on many of the issues troubling the world today but why is it often reluctant to stay because that and well that's will be and just

a few moments. of. a. very hard to take. that back with the earthquake there a little. bit .

of a bit of a political. welcome back to worlds apart where we are discussing our lens many gains and failures for the country's minister for european affairs pascoe donahue mr donahue we were talking about immigration in our land. as you said it's a very pressing issue of europe as a whole has to deal with broader much larger issue of incoming immigration i'm talking about refugees from africa and the middle east some of that related to the conflict in syria and in libya and i think ireland has a very unique position here because on the one hand for decades you've been

receiving country and now you are once again a country of immigrants how do you think this issue should be dealt with in the broader european continent it's a hugely difficult and sensitive issue the three elements to how we believe the should be handled better in the future the first one is that we have to do all we can to make sure that people are not in a position to have to leave their country and region because of the terrible violence and state break that's occurring there and europe the role to play there secondly we need to ensure that if they are travelling across the seeds as many of them have been done more be drawn to ensure that as people get into terrible difficulty that they can be dealt with safely and the third element and it's of that i do if they do go to europe and if they are legally allowed to stay and encouraged to stay we have to find a way of ensuring that this is dealt with ferdi across all of europe now in the

beginning of your answer you said that people shouldn't be forced to leave their countries because of all the conflicts and i think so for they argue that. the european union itself may have helped or aided through its policies. some of these conflicts. how would they argue the us well let me explain that for example the conflict in libya or the conflict in syria where some of the european countries sided with the. opposition against the sovereign government but my question is a bit different i know that your country in particular has a a unique experience first with the. sectarian strife and done with conflict resolution you are more knowledgeable on that issue of than any other country in europe but for some reason when it came to your both leiby and syria are led to a back seat you. essentially gave the initiative to your france and the united

kingdom why is arlen so passive on those issues of war and peace especially given your unique experience. your question base based on two premises start are wrong again the first of premises that the european union was involved in the policy decisions that led to some of the countries further dissident there's a difference between european countries and the european union did european countries have decided not to give compton seats to european union regarding where they put their on this fourth of this debate on the it's a very. you say you can't blame the european union for using powers are not using power with the heart of i mean you're correct to say that member members of the european union talk different stances in relation to reach was asking with our allies has never voiced either luciferian or at least will guarantee its expertise

in chile goes without. that's wrong though ireland is a neutral country precisely because of our history we've decided. dot. we believe it's the right thing for our country to adopt a neutral stance in conflicts that take place throughout the world but the neutral stance is not the same thing as of passive starts so if you look for example what we have to on in relation to the middle east in relation to syria. i point to three things that aren't on true it's from policy the first one is that we have to ploy our armed forces in a neutral capacity in the golan heights to try and look after and protect people who would otherwise be vulnerable to the conflict that you've destroyed. the second one thing that we have done is that we have made contributions to the

organizations that are involved in the hopeful decommissioning of chemical weapons within syria in what way and financial contributions to us and then the third thing is precisely because of the historical heritage that you are quickly identified regarding what we happen to of what happened in the north of ireland and what's happened within our own country we believe the best response to the kind of difficulty you're talking about is a political response i think that the if the history of your country shows that it can only achieve a political solution of whether you recognize the legitimacy of both sides the problem is that the european stance is of course that from the very beginning some of the ear of your european neighbors and your european partners declare it one of the sides to that conflict illegitimate and some would argue that the main reason why we haven't been able to achieve a political solution at this point but again be clear to this is the stance of european member states individually making their mind up as opposed to a

a european a collective european union response and this need not be blaming the european union for the exercise of power it's. it does not one of your favorite phrases is the voluntary sharing of sovereignty on for size common european values our full sized common european approaches so it seems to me that whenever it is convenient for your class you would stress the commonality but whenever it is it may not fit your narrative few strands the individual is. under god of course is the first part of the concept which is voluntarily sharing this what you decide on the different elements of your national sovereignty what you will do with contraries when you believe it's in the south it's in the interests of your own country. to where your

armed forces go and when it comes to the exercise of your foreign policy in a very sensitive matter that's what alan's house decided as i think is the case for most of the member states that we believe that's an area of national competence and it's precisely because of the heritage of history and history that we have a dialogue complicit sacrament that we have said we believe that's the right option to be taken within the reach of state you're discussing just recently irish prime minister said that to make our land the first country to add the european bailout program as far as i understand one of the crucial elements of this successful as a strategy is breaking this link between public and private debt and. i know that the european security mechanism was created at least partially for that very purpose to deal with the banks and to you know allow the taxpayers to be

a concern to the public that now we're heard recently both from the e.c.b. officials and the yes some officials that they don't want to deal with the banks that if the. task that is going to take place over the next year reveals that the capital is ation of the irish banks is good enough you know it should be left to the irish taxpayers to deal with that again even though they've been promised time and time again that they should be carrying the burden any longer. don't you think that these two concepts at all it's a video concept of volunteering sharing of sovereignty because first it's not voluntary irish people no longer want to continue caring for that for the banks and first second of all there is no sharing i mean when it comes to relying on some european structures to relieve that pain europeans now say that you know ira should

deal with those problems simply because those were irish bank pretty good europeans are not saying to us really i mean that's a diversity of view in relation to this. those opinions are being voiced context for us but that was not me it's the europeans are saying and that's the decision of the european union i mean there are two different things if you look there are in relation to her negotiations stand on the banking union european council so that the european stability mechanism should be able to play a role in the directory couple of banking systems now all. you have to acknowledge that there is an awful lot of debate taking place regarding. broke and how tightening should be broken members of political elite here and. and some members of the public i think they would argue that you didn't have to encourage that that in the first place and my question to you is whether you are confident that the irish taxpayers won't be asked to carry that burden as law in the input

into a question to me we can acknowledge the value judgment that they made in relation to this that history will be able to tell if it's correct because what we can do is correctly acknowledge dot the irish taxpayer paid far too high a cost for supporting the banking system now in relation to your question regarding the future what we hope is that what we want and we will press for is for the e.u. . been an option for our country in dealing with this left this banking death but what i would have to say is we want this to be one of a number of options we want to open to our government on the tax payers in the future can i just clarify you mentioned the sam as a mechanism yes so if for some reason the sound decides not to deal with the irish banks confident that the irish taxpayers won't be asked again how this break up to

that bank we need to bring these conclusions to an end in the first place. but if you look at what is happening there at the moment if you look at the arrangements that are already in place for example requiring bondholders to be bailed out in to support the cost of a national banking system. i can't i'm certain that in the future the cost to any tox payer is going to be lower than it has been in the past so there's no clear yes and no no because i mean not everybody has though benefits is coming to tell us i think people who says want to know when it's only not i'm sure of the worst with the research. center of course the reason for that is that we're involved in a negotiation at the moment and you of all ask me to comment on something that could happen. for them that the irish people won't be asked again to step in and pick up the bail for the year for the private banks what respect i never said that's what i was i'm saying it's not in the context of

a fully functioning banking union that we want to see open run in next year which will be a european banking union if god is in place the cost to national taxpayers regardless of whether they're irish are not should be far smaller than the how it's been in the past and dot's why we are pursuing this spine communion but you know what i'm conscious of all of this that at the end of any crisis that ever happens for the be bunking our economic again what always happens is the regulators central bankers politicians they say this will never ever happen again and it keeps on happening but we have to ensure is that if this does top and again it doesn't how is such a concept clueless make an awful cost for taxpayers mr donahue thank you very much for you very much and if you like the show please join us again same place same time here on the world the pike.

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the headlines from international competing. simultaneous pro and anti-government protests in the ukraine capital. tens of thousands arrive from across. me just show their support for president meanwhile some sure business taking advantage of the. bloody in madrid twenty three people have reportedly been injured. the protesters demanding an end to the draft legislation that would see them pay hefty fines for demonstrating that . they seemed about it in the city of. defend their right to stay put.