anyway so wife of koskie well first of all ms boyko who might be kidding because if you look into that amnesty it seems to be sceptical soviets toile traditional kind of an amnesty touching upon vulnerable groups of prison news pregnant women elderly people minors women with small children and so on and so forth and none of the last moment there is a month added on to include into the amnesty specifically such crimes as hooliganism and mass riots and i would like to stay on for just one more question his imprisonment imprisonment had a symbolic value it was always presented as a sort of reflection of how bad the human rights to sion in russia supposedly was i wonder if you attach the same symbolism to his release doesn't mean. let's say political climate in the country may be changing simply because he is being set free while human rights watch is an organization nullus the case of

symbolizes everything that's wrong with human rights in russia in the uk quite to the opposite. it's a very last rites of case and there are many other cases that we documented solar lead and that clearly demonstrate that there are grave human rights abuses including political money policeman of justice that are happening in the russian federation given that so many private profile people who have been involved in political activity have been released early do you think that signifies any change in the way the kremlin operates or indeed the political climate in the country while it's like the revolving door of russian political just is a revolving door of trumped up charges where you have some high profile political president. the rule is in one single week just before christmas just before the

holiday says develop should be ready to celebrate but done at the same time although people still remain in jail on three charges if we could stay on the subject of. sochi olympic because you you mentioned that you believe that this was part of the political campaign and when you place and it's interesting the holocaust himself was asked about it during the press conference and i want to play this question by b.b.c. for you are you encouraging people to show she's really fix or to stay away. so essentially the holocaust a man who was released from prison thirty six hours ago after spending their year as the first one of the first questions he is being asked is whether sochi olympics should be boycotted or not and i think that's in itself a rather peculiar question but my question to you is whether you think that's what

human rights campaign in russia has come to that it's not about human rights it is now about taking a stab at the government or better or putting personally well misspoke or first and foremost you're actually the one who's such a political manipulation project that i didn't i said a public relations project and i know i'm. very close on labor the same approach but in the i'm not sure whether you know that paulus matar for human rights watch now call for a boy quote of sports or cultural events so all the musician god forbid another cold. london if your going to zation is very. active in the us. and pigs and i want to quote you something that's your call except rachel dunbar of the deputy director for europe and central asia for human rights watch just published an opinion piece on your website calling on readers to quote brace

yourself for what could come after international spotlight leave sochi and i wonder what are you bracing yourself for do you think. members will be rounded up again people will be able lynched on the streets mojado quotes kid. says that he is not going to go back to russia because he does nor knew what a huge would remain a dream own if he's on russian soil was it. does it does he really has to live up to russia and unless he gets very small that security. this is not what he said he said that as of now he doesn't have guarantees of him being able to leave russia for our foreign countries for example for germany he needs to visit that country for example because of his mother and that he isn't afraid of traveling to russia because he's afraid that does any of that he is you are letting you know you are speaking for him that he never said that he said that indeed there are some legal

issues with his skis that have not been subtlety have but he has never heard of this but i'm going to share that while holder of course he is in germany aware of his not going to go to jail now goes without saying i'm also not a free for the two women from the pool so i don't think that they're going to be sent back to jail as soon as the olympics are so what are you what i see all of the radial is that it. looks in the other direction from russia is the spoke is no longer on russia then the unprecedented crowds on civil society have been witnessing easy going to intensive quality that's exactly would be afraid of because nobody can actually see even more specific though what exactly do you mean i assume you mean the ngo law that the. and winter forests about them well you know if i go i am not only valid but i would agree that the law is indeed in the war of the untalented this piece of legislation which is boy. rushes international

obligations and freedom of association this non-governmental organisations get boring funding and advocacy to register poor in such legislation exists in many other countries such as for example the united states and britain there is a similar law as well in ireland the love you rode for actually did i actually did and organizations that do receive foreign funding have to register with the state they are. received. and asked on behalf of one which is over for in principle and that's a very different story here in russia if an advocacy group receives even a penny even a kopek of foreign funding even though it's completely independent from its dog is it just to register us all so why are they so love what is it doing there barriers of all as i did being a native speaker of russian and

a resident of russia that in this language in this cultural context agent means for inspiring to live here i think the connotations are the same as in english for an agent in english doesn't sound preachy as well but people use these terms quite often she is russian sopranos and regular in russian it means spawn treats lawyers months the civically to demonize independent that to this what i would like to ask you something different. this year justice ministry has decided to look how and yours are complying with this law they initiated if i'm not mistaken i think around fourteen cases of legal proceedings against various angelos and in one out of fourteen cases those laws actually want. legal proceedings in court against the state and this is in a country that according to human rights watch has no independent judiciary where the state prosecutors do just sad and yours how would that be possible well i

wouldn't want to rule any of some dope with a problem as the first to wall the prosecutor's office actually launched this massive campaign of buna tive aggressive inspections and over one thousand organisations rick choked across the country and in some cases those inspections were just completely over the top where activists were all asked for their correspondence the prosecutors wanted access to their computers and so on and so forth but then dozens of groups received warnings i direct orders to refuse not i want to courts and won the proceedings. in a sense that's one of the things that sort of makes me rary because they're waiting for the forty nations or is that the law was adopted and then the minister of justice himself so he was unhappy with the law he did not know how the minister would find it possible to implement it because there were almost all of it and the

several months nothing was happening then in two thousand thirteen in february president putin has a meeting with the federal security service and the meeting suddenly says mbali this law non-governmental organisations how come i'm not seen any implementation and as soon as he says that. the inspection competing is being launched and old it is ringing me from my direct question you show the court proceedings a listen to this so this is how planning and organization are taken to court and they start losing their cases and the picture is really very grim and then in mid july president putin says in the face of very strong international criticism. we are going to reconsider we will possibly. and the law and once he says it some organisations started winning the ip it was and that's what you are referring to you see the shadow of mr putin in any single case in russia but this notion that we

have to take a very short break now one day come back their russian government is often accused of using the law selectively against its critics but why did they break the law so easily that's coming up in a few moments a while to part. why is the price of gold so high. demand global demand do you think it was money. the value of the only plays we have to live of the water that we need to survive it's not compared to gold i mean gold we're not going to eat gold we're not going

to be gold. we're not going to drink what clearly what i'm all is and it's in a desperate economic situation absolutely right what we're wrong to do is say therefore any kind of economic development from the outside is going to be a benefit their only purpose is to extract as much money as possible to feed into the global financial system. with part of the geo political economic system that's extremely exploitative. first of all is a question whether mining should even be carried out altogether can it be done in a way which doesn't destroy people's was resources. environment well you know those are pretty serious questions mining is not a what a moment problem it's happening in asia in africa and south america in central

america in mexico and it's even happening in canada and the united states. well going into the. seasons he has put has already been plenty to celebrate space december on this month's show wheeling how the future tense so lazy section stone call to make movies with an instant messenger clicked on the revolutionary exoskeleton makes a life's work of every lifting. day you're on a. listening tour. these labels have been consol hey braving the elements in order to stand up to us oil giants chevron. this comes after a mass hunger strike that returned the world's attention to the place that some

have dubbed the gulag of our times. as an undeclared global battlefield in which young and just one of the front lines played. that it. cut. costs.

welcome back to worlds apart where discussing the state of human rights in russia of the time election russia program director of human rights watch. just before the break we were talking about putting being implicated in pretty much everything in it in russia and that not everything has the high profile cases and told that smith. well i think if you if you look around the level of paternalism is very high in this country and it seems that whether he likes it or not he is getting dragged on into. each and every case and i wonder whether it is sometimes the human rights campaigners that contribute to these very trying because when we have. controversy with greenpeace protesters they had of greenpeace international was calling on people to intervene now or we are discussing the horror costy case and the you're again pinning that on to putin and his personal invasions the arrive all the

questions about you know whether those goals should be behind bars where again addressed to put in aren't you people like you or at least putting putin sort of for these play of words on to depart his style he's just the president wired to treat him as the super being all of us a very unfortunate situation boy called with the problem at a certain poor and the only we resolve of problem is to address putin and see what happens because the judicial system does not only blame him for trying living in this is the system that mr putin actually. knew which clause this past week amidst all the need joisting of odorless of political prisoners humor looked like some to call a sitting under the j. gansett mama. christmas tree in the kremlin handing out gifts of mercy of mother cause. he also. told us exactly how it looked like and she knew one thing that i

actually wanted to raise talking about political trust is just several hours after the other calls finally became a free man and after this in atari russian thousand and two upset by the name of guinea the call was sentenced to three years of imprisonment in a clearly political case so it is the revolving door of russian justice. if it comes then grabbed it rather well that's an interesting point that you raise because at his news conference in berlin. he was asked whether he feels any bitterness about spending saw watched time behind bars and. i would like to play what what he said. the.

issue from include those numerous reasons. you. just commute from. conditional machine you mean you have to. shoot him now i think he's being a bit vague here you can interpret that in many different ways but what i think he's saying is that he believes that selective justice was applied to him but he also recognizes that he did break the law and i think that applies to many of the people that you call political prisoners. activists greenpeace activists some of the defendants in the case and i wonder if you believe that the political nature of their actions justifies them breaking the law well they're talking about the left of prosecution and disproportionate prosecution another diminished important here in the case though mr hodder well yes he says i've been playing rugby games but one

of the same time we all knew that everyone who became rich as a result of russia's privatisation was breaking certain rules because the rules were very sort of lose and fast virtually nonexistent. so if their call to get was sent to jail then i guess everyone else to be in the same jail with them in the very to say that russian justice is not selective you mentioned that especially back in two thousand and three the rules of the game were not very clearly defined and what what our cost was locked up for you know was probably being done by many are there all the guards but now the state made it absolutely clear that it's not going to tolerate breaking the law neither in respect of greenpeace activists nor in with regards to protesters attacking the police so do you think that people who defend human rights in russia protest serious activists do they have to change

their actions now to make sure that they simply protect themselves legally from the prosecution by the state will only one naturally have to abide by it. war on the other hand the laws themselves should be actually in line with relevant international standards the first thing that poor did when he returned to the kremlin was to run through the call of mint a raft of laws which really detrimental to russians and i'm talking in particular about the new restrictions on demonstrations the new restrictions on freedom of information including specifically freedom of information online and the restriction. rigid and it's very difficult for civil society to operate i wonder if you're really following the social trends that we had our scene in russia because for many years the number of volunteers in russia has been on the increase and in fact the charity's eight foundation just reported that last year russia made it to

the global top ten by the number of people volunteering twenty five thousand people volunteering their time for the olympics what is that if not a sign of a strengthening civil society because in a country like russia where the sort of the fatigue of any collective action is very strong after communism years you know that when people are actually taking charge of their life when they are participating in gauging in civil societies it just sounded while the interior movement is great and i just wonderful to see lou level for luncheon initiatives flowing in the saudis actually. problematic here is that the government is basically trying to split the civil society into the good civil society the barred civil society and the good one is the one which is doing things forcibly helping people without criticizing the government the bollard one is the one who is trying to bring about policy changes

and actually radley de this problem. actually trying to break the law and i think we can hear a transition to the case of police arrived two men. as of that band were just released on on the amnesty and dancing in the altar wasn't the most controversial action there were also famous for doing some stunts that involved nudity and even something that looked like fornication in public i wonder i would like to ask you a personal question because you have a long record of defending human rights in russia do you think there is any limit to self-expression of political activist well trigger the expression search is not limitless it can be actually restricted the restrictions. when you mean sing the women from pussy of a group they had the right thing would realize see these are the rusted.

disproportionate charges because they buy new means perpetrated after all and in is with hate more than against russian which who talks. it just didn't know what happened it's something they did no one. really understands and you'll see of hooliganism motivated but really it was a little different so cool and want to be to kids it was really not a fair judgment at all and he said it time and again and even did richest draw it administered to me and sentenced to a. human rights watch would not intervene. on the screen to. the court system in russia we washed all of that particular kids very closely and yes it's a clear example of political manipulation of justice and the ruling was.

a human rights watch operates in many countries and if you look around the world this issue of ethnic and especially of religious hatred is extremely prominent these days it's a major source of human rights violations in the middle east it's a major driver for wars now in syria in libya in afghanistan in iraq so i wonder if you believe that in this particular case the right to a fund let's say religious sensitivities is more important important than the right not to be found that i think i said it but i don't mind repeating it again. put. her actually trolling don't disproportionately charges because they did not want perpetrate an act of color when the women want to play should only learn to stand by their actions and in fact during their own pretrial hearing they actually apologized to believe or as if those believers feelings were a found it so if they apologize that the probably they recognize that that actions

were viewed as thoughtful and russian orthodox so that's not like i loved what the federal and central mosque not at all. i became too much to the pussy riot case only one of those women were actually taken into custody rather choose out one they just had their whatever you want to call it which is second to performance which is second political stunt as a russian orthodox i was like. it probably wasn't a good idea to do this in a church again i'm russian orthodox but they should not have gone to jail that was the only thing i'm trying to say earlier imagine some of the positive developments a rise of volunteering people being more engaged people taking to the streets i don't know if you would agree but i think that some of the political discourse in russia has become more diverse compared to let's say five or six years ago why

something like that is not noticed by an international organization like yourself that is so devoted to the promotion of human rights and building the civil society but it is actually a chance to both three wicks of the here in this room spoke to a call of yours from russia to this situation with people with disabilities in russia. first of all one has to recognize the very nautical progress on the past two years especially on deposit to ease with russia's ratifying the convention on disability and even interest to then the serious problem if progress is tough on italy in place even more so we are really excited we are elitists and fox that russia is hosting the polar olympic games in addition to the olympic games in salt trade because last time russia hosted the olympics as you may remember in nineteen eighty and the soviet union refused to

hose the ponds and i am actually. there are new people in this country so yes a lot has changed in the in saying that russia is the same as the so if you are there is it good to hear because i think some of your have alliance wouldn't suggest that because you use allusions to soviet union quite a lot of but given your misgivings about the human rights situation in russia i wonder if you could have made that russia played a positive role in the snow than the fair because if it wasn't for russia he would . hooley have been lock locked out long ago and probably for a much longer generation than mikhail khodorkovsky well once noted in the second. major statement saying that all the country that he had trusted with his requests. into his clear. objective decisions and this is apparently what russia

has done and that's newton and temporary refuge in this country at the same challenge it's rather peculiar while given refuge chill while the new whistleblower like snood who is drawing to. an escape from d.s.s. or its is being apparently sue that russia is at the same. much russia on its own whistleblower there is this harassment a whistleblower is going on in the country including the whistleblower it's insulted there is a huge crush on environmentalist groups and only independent media that are trying to cover all the developments relevant to the olympics construction and they're being critical well i think what that shows is that human rights issues probe probably a major problem not just in russia but in many countries around the world and i guess that means that human rights watch has a lot of adopted in the future unfortunately we have to leave it here because we

are out of time i appreciate your time and this spirited discussion and if you like the show please join us again same place same time here in the wilds of. the beginning of the lone politic night moxon the fateful island life. in the wind up temptation. the dog was lost for six months. there are more polar bears than people. and it's as easy to hire a rifle as a scooter. because the island is so in the space of there are no indigenous people

but there are all those who do choose this frozen life. this is could be right about if you. please come. across tough rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want.

iran considers a bill on a celebrating its nuclear program if new u.s. sanctions are imposed as western powers are urged to fulfill an agreement brokered in geneva seen as a key breakthrough twenty thirteen. a child born today will grow up with no conception of privacy at all. and warns edward snowden as he takes to the british airwaves giving an alternative to the queen's speech and wishing everyone a merry christmas. and competing is nice but a winning trumps it all say athletes as the ready themselves for the torture winter olympics stay with us as we report on the paralympic contender is using that gold fever to turn tragedy into purpose.