pay back your lawn and then you borrow another one and continue to do that. but what happens and it's no question of getting into debt burden but what happens if you cannot pay the obviously there is no question of up to her if she said i cannot pay back we didn't fifty two weeks of the one year and i need a few weeks weeks more rescheduling as long as she wants to pay we have no problem we are not here to punish her for the time period we are here to help her so that she can use the money and earn enough money because these are all income generating loan in other words you invest in something which will generate income and you pay back the bank instantly have some money left for you out of your income so it's time period is not a big concern for us it's up to you and if you say well i thought i'll pay back in six months but then i in the fifth monday found out that i'll need more time then six months you say it and we reschedule it for another whatever number of months you need because after all you're paying back we have no grudge against you or any

any other thing we don't want to make any problem for the borrowers we are we're not in a penalty mood for anybody we're not punishing everybody for anything we all to or want to be helpful to them so that these defined it convenient they find it helpful to deal with the bank now i know your organization was eventually created to help people but what happens if you're poor or cannot generate income after borrowing money. sure it's possible big businesses fail for example a borrower took a long to buy a cow and she did a very good with in the beginning month and the third month the car died she cannot pay back anymore so we don't punish her for the death of a cow we consult with her without a group members how best to help her and they will say if you want then a little longer will be very happy to do that so boarders come back and say she wants to take a loan for another car so we give it a fresh loan all rule is never forgiven it's not leave this is not written off is

still on the books but your main concern now is to pay back the second lawn and then on top of that if you pay a little bit more would you go in the first loan that finally gets so in practice the first loan becomes a long term loan it doesn't put everybody on her but the second loan becomes a loan for another year or so so that we tried to solve the problem within our brains with rules rules should not be to punish or the crimean micro finance bank in itself is a huge institution it is impossible to control all its activities personally surely it's possible that some bad practices could have a carrot in your bank's operations no. possible in your organization you talk about government you talk about big businesses there are some people who'll make wrong thing bad judgment and so on it happens in good mean bank also but compared to any other big large nationwide institution i would say. bank is almost free from all

those mistakes. in significant number of mistakes happen and we try to rectify it we try to put in a system where you can detect any fault in any any problem that arises in the system because the system is computerized so that you can check it right from your head office what's going on in the remote villages in the remote branches we work it all over bangladesh every single village in bangladesh has access to them invent microcredit program so we have borrowers all around the country we have eight and a half million borrowers ninety seven percent of them are women they're all connected with our system of saying that. must mention that the bank is all by the board or so bought all lost somebody outsiders she is in control she's the boardroom and she's the owner and she sensibly presented it to sit in the board seats or whoever it making decision is actually her represent did it all and like

a body like her so it's not something that some big banks or somebody came in give you a long and they don't know you you don't know the mystery of like there is a family kind of thing it's eight and a half million women it's family so we worked it as a kind of a organization to be with them and for them. but here is what they would problems arise that was reported recently that grammy model in south india has in recent years been distorted by then sure capitalism profit makers will of families may face debt spiral so forceful that collections which in some occasions are let to suicide are you aware of this. yes one thing i want to correct it is not to get mean model if it is a grammy model it will not go into leasing i p o and so on so what we're not in the business we're not here to make money out or activity so they deviated from the

government coming model that's where all the problems took place they wanted to make it a money making enterprise for shareholders so they want to dick said people say if you lend money to the poor people you can make a lot of money out of it i said that's entirely the opposite of going back system government system is to help poor people poor women particularly to change their life and nobody is trying to make money out of them those who want to make money out of them by misusing them in concept they turned the whole thing into long sharking deduction and we're of course to loan sharking and that's how we were born opposing loan sharks so we don't want micro credit or grameen bank to be used to become law that's why we condemned it and we said it said entirely wrong thing they should not even use the word microcredit for themselves let alone mean bank microcredit so you're saying this kind of things don't happen in bangladesh there are no families that have actually been worse off after borrowing money in grameen

that before. there are many many microcredit programs including grameen bank itself none of them is devoted to making money for any individual person eighty collection of shareholders it's all dedicated to serve the people as i said in green bank itself it's owned by the grameen bank borders in other instances they are n.g.o.s it's a question of making money from the people doesn't arise in bangladesh those kind of deviation didn't take place it took place in india and on the top of this the one that you are mentioning and we have condemned it very heavily we wrote about it we made press statement. about a similar thing happens the left in america particularly in mexico through. one of the district issues there and we condemn that too and they also wanted to make i.p.o. and get people businesspeople excited that you can invest in mexico didn't make

a lot of money out of the poor people which is a totally totally wrong message now bangladesh prime minister she has seen a dismissed you from crimean bank in two thousand and ten citing that you were older then demanded her retirement age of sixty personal how painful was his decision for you and did you retain some of the homes in a. retirement. it's it is very painful because it was done in a kind of inconsiderate way because we were not taken as a government bank government applied the government bends rule on to grameen bank saying that you are not following the government bank's rule of the term and we said this is a bank owned by poor women we have our own rules our old law allows that so this distinction about the age limit doesn't apply to getting bank board is very clear in there but in any case. i was asked to resign so i resigned and

came out of it but that doesn't mean the whole grameen bank subtly became a foreigner to me this is part of my life it's part of me he's part of my family so i feel i belong to the bank family were there in a position of decision making or executive position of i'm not but this is my baby and i work together of people who work there is a part of my team but we always work together since is the very day it was born when he was a little infant we not surely in helping to grow any grown nationwide than a grammy now i did his a spread all over the world i still grew around do that in that position has not changed that relationship or structure so you're somewhat of a senior consultant to the bank now without really having real power in meddling in its affairs right. well i will not say this word sounds very commercial by

deliciously reste not a commercial relationship i was just a friend i would say i'm a friend and i still feel part of the team no i don't hold a position within the bank but that doesn't mean my views are ignored in giving back because they look up to me because they know that every single procedure in every single methodological of government beg build them piece by piece so they look up to me for guided. it's time for our share break now we'll be right back where that will stir mohammad yunus to ask a little bit more about what happened when i mean back why would he run for president bangladesh and what's to feature of microfinance globally don't go away.

he survived more atrocities. to make a final decision. has changed his life and the world around him. by giving up. hope. and loves to so many children. nikolai the american worker on t.v. . right from the street. first street to loose and i think pictures. on a reporter's twitter. and instagram. to

be in the know. on. the sochi of the twenty fourteen olympics what's this place like and the moment is is so special as the russian resort prepares to local the world power of the games shaping the city's present and future. love them all so it will bring you this is a moment there we brought you from look very cold and that snowy windy mountain is still yet beyond the olympics but let's say today on our team.

cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want. i know c.n.n. the premise n.b.c. and fox news have taken some not slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's close and for the truth from the might think. it's because one full attention and the mainstream media work side by side the joke is actually on here. and our teen years

we have a different right. ok because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not god. i don't know if. you guys stick to the jokes well handled it makes sense that i'm. live.

live live. live .

welcome back we're talking to muhammad yunus to men behind the idea of micro finance and the founder of grand main banking bangladesh good to have you back so just to talk a little bit more about what happened and grab me and bag a new premise i have seen i wanted to split the bank into nineteen groups you rejected that idea which probably also played a part in your downfall on top of that bangladesh government has this idea to actually bring to growing dark under the central banks jurisdiction what's wrong with all of that. well this all came for political reasons there's no concrete issue about that i mean by dividing up a splitting up grameen bank in one thousand pieces only only to going to say you destroy the bank if somebody wants to destroy the bank that's the best way to do so cut it up chop it off it's gone so that idea even the government to this is not they are not in favor of chopping it off they will do something else but in any

case behind everything else looks like there is an attempt to control crimean banks and our preview of the law that we started out with makes it very clear that it should be guided by its own board board is the ultimate decision making body but the present government somehow didn't like that so they want to intervene into the activities of crimean banks and that's why all these nineteen pieces and all control mechanism and changing the law amending the law to into did to the bank all this thinking about and this seemed to be not very friendly to the bank itself and any action that is being taken. nobody in the world will say that is in the interest of the bank of the poor people and i'm bill worried about it and i tried to draw attention of everybody of the same person that look you have to stop

that this is a greater distribution this is being so much good for the people and the particularly poorly families and the poor women in the world that has given so much and parliament to the women in bangladesh and that is becoming a global phenomenon bringing same thing in many many countries almost every single country including russia. has microcredit program so today to go back to. the origin of the whole idea the grameen bank and to harm it it will be totally painful than al aqsa. but a bungled actually government has launched legal actions against you for overseas tax evasion you were ousted from being boss of grameen bank for working past retirement age finance minister alleges you have wrongly received tax exemptions while chief of a public institution between two thousand and four and eleven a lot of accusations in a very short period of time where are they coming from and why now. no because

the government present government. finds it appropriate for them to do it for political reasons and all the allegations that you listed again and again been demonstrated we are sent all the information to the public to make sure that they understand it's all baseless there is no ground to vote for example the case of tax evasion. it was decided in the cabinet meeting that my information should be examined by the texaco it is in its report should be submitted to the text of the cabinet itself out of ministers and they did then they said we've investigated every detail so professor yunus this tax returns and he did it everything correctly we have no problem we hears not the misty a single penny in texas so we have no problem with that. but when it was not satisfied with the people they sent it back again to make more inquiries to see if

they can find something else so this is the kind of thing you take something at least keep coming back and finally in the final report tech separately says well only only one thing we can say that probably he didn't ask for permission to make this income to speak. to go to foreign countries and make a speech is an except on our young for that so he needed under government law he needed permission and then our position is it was never a government bank soup question of taking permission never rules at our board never felt that this is something that i need permission from the government and then governments itself are saying that since by two thousand i became six sixty or all after their i'm no longer barely. managing director so all b c c the information. government is seeking about income tax is after two thousand so

far not a government servant according to them that i was not a government servant after two thousand the question of taking permission from the government doesn't erase it all so again it makes no sense so every single one of them this said i transferred lot of money from grameen bank to my private organization private companies and i made it very clear to the back to the people in bangladesh that not only i don't have private organization of my or i don't own any single share in any company anywhere so the question of me owning anything doesn't it is because i don't own anything so that's very clear so question of transferring money to buy organization doesn't it then they said you transferred money to another domino commiseration yes i did because that was the requirement of the agreement between the between the donor organization and gunmen in the region authority we lose money was involved in that mr x.

oldtime who is the development minister he made it pretty clear statement he said no whatever was done was done legitimately there was nothing wrong doing it so he made it clear to do so if you think accuses the base of basis behind it yes i mean about sixty minutes that it does look like when it does look like that the government just wants you out of the picture i'm just trying to figure out why are you represent some kind of threat to them. well you could make a speculation some in the press makes a lot of this speculation anybody's and title to speculation but definitely nothing of the thing that has done looks additional to anybody in the world what would in bangladesh and outside bangladesh many people believe leaders around the world protested against what is happening to them in bed and many people inside the government inside the bangladesh protested even the opposition in bangladesh to. which is a very powerful opposition this it everything this current government is doing to

grameen bank if the opposition they come to power they will undo everything they have done because they are done they have done it so wrongly so badly so they will do that nobody is supporting this or cause at all but i know that you in the words of the main man who are the owners of grameen bank i know that you have been an outspoken critic of successive governments in bangladesh not just this particular government plus like you said you had you have eight point three million borrowers so that also constitutes some political forest on its own right in bangladesh it's a lot of people that said that explanation this is they said that probably government sees a political benefit in controlling the banks so that they can get some political mileage and again this is a speculation i cannot say with whether this is true or not but it's a fact that it's an organization which is about one fourth of the total population of bangladesh is we didn't get any bank so we are linked with the one fourth of the

population which moves one fourth of the voters are included within government banks so differently politicians could look into it in that way did today prevail but again the same logic you might say then government should be be friending grameen bank the confronting coming back so it did that doesn't make sense why did it it did all those people who are in germany in bank but taking a read their rights when you take away their rights they won't be your best your friend they will be forced to you so politically doesn't look like a very same step on the part of the government so people in bangladesh think that you're somewhat of a hero plus you disagree with many of the things these governments were doing why didn't you run for president yourself. well i don't want to be in politics that i've made it very clear again and again in two thousand and seven when there is a vacant political. many people in bangladesh try to perceive me to join politics

so that down under pressure i said ok i'll join politics and i'll create a political party but we didn't ten weeks i came back and said no i'm not going to join politics and i'm not going to create a political party and since then i never even thought about joining politics or creating a political party of my own and i don't whatever i'm doing is so much important. to concentrate on that if you get into politics and by going this politics is not a very exciting life in terms of. corruption in terms of the we do and environment of politics is i thought this is not the kind of environment that i can work with so i work in a way where i see transparency where i see i feel feel comfortable and i don't feel that much comfortable in the other side so i wanted to stay with that ok how will the possible demise of grameen bank in bangladesh effect its followers around the

world. well first of all i don't think they'll be demise of grameen bank they'll be damages of grameen bank not demand demise of grameen bank government is a very well established organization it's a very. strong organization financially strong organization institutionally with the strong organization i don't think anybody can bring demise to it but don't lots of harm in the short term can be done. and then. our job and meaning my job and my colleagues the team that bill because i mean back in the bottle of themselves is to go back and fix it make sure that it become not only strong it becomes stronger organization and i'm sure. we will get support from the public will get support global support and i want supporter of that water at miter said on the world would be proud of what. we have for today our

guests was a noble prize winner and pioneer of microfinance bangladeshi economist. thank you for watching and cheering for the next edition of sophie a crowd of. some of the sixteen percent imports came from illegal fishing in. the european union is ironically taking fish from some of the poorest nations on earth so this is a very serious and very urgent problem that needs immediate international action. but the territorial waters the fish they load the fish on to the ships and leave

for europe. to day illegal fishing just taking the bread out of our mouths. one of the wonderful. polish face. pleasure to have you with us here on our team today i'm sure. wealthy british stock.

markets. find out what's really happening to the global economy for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause a report on our. did you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open process is critical to our democracy albus. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across difficult we've been a hydrogen ally handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once told us i'm job market and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond

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