wants to pay we have no problem we're not here to punish or for a time period we're here to help her so that she can use the money and earn enough money because these are all income generating loan in other words you invest in something which will generate income and you pull back the bank and still be have some money left for you out of your income so tempy it is not a big concern for us it's up to you and if you say well i thought i'll pay back in six months but then i in the fifth month they found out that i'll need more time then six months you say it and reschedule it for another whatever number of months you need because after all you're paying back we have no grudge against you or any any other thing we don't want to make any problem for the borrowers we're we're not in a penalty mood for anybody we're not punishing anybody for anything we all to or want to be helpful to them so that it's defined it convenient they find it helpful to deal with the bank now i know your organization was eventually created to help people but what happens if you're poor or cannot generate income after borrowing

money. sure it's possible big businesses fail for example a borrower took a long to buy a car and she did a very good with in the beginning month and the third month the cow died she cannot pay back anymore so we don't punish her for the death of a cow we consult with her without a group members how best to help her and there was a few once in a long would be very happy to do that so boarders come back and say she wants to take a loan for another car so we give it a fresh lawn all rule is never forgiven is not leave this not. written off is still on the books but your main concern now is to pay back the second lawn and then on top of that if you pay a little bit more would you go in the first loan that finally gets so in practice the first loan becomes a long term loan it doesn't put everybody on her but the second loan becomes a lawn for another year or so so that we tried to solve the problem within our

brains with rules rules should not be to punish or the crimean micro finance bank in itself is a huge institution it is impossible to control all its activities personally surely it's possible that some bad practices could have occurred in your bank's operations no. possible in your organization you talk about government you talk about big businesses there are some people who'll make wrong thing bad judgment and so on it happens in good mean bank also but compared to any other big large nationwide institution i would say. bank is almost free from all those mistakes. in significant number of mistakes happen and we try to rectify it we try to put it in a system where you can detect any fault in the any problem that arises in the system because the system is computerized so that you can check it right from your

head office what's going on in the remote villages in the remote branches we work it all over bangladesh every single village in bangladesh has access to them invent microcredit program so we have borrowers all around the country we have eight and a half million borrowers ninety seven percent of them are women they're all connected with our system of saying that. must mention that the bank is all by the board or so bought all lost somebody outsiders she is in control she's the boardroom and she's the owner and she sensibly predicted to sit in the board seats or whoever of making decisions is actually her represent did it all and like a body like her so it's not something that some big banks or somebody came in give you a lawn and they don't know you you don't know the mystery of like that it's a family kind of thing it's eight and a half million women's family so we worked it as a kind of a organization to be with them and for them. but here it would problems

arise that was reported recently that grammy model in south india has in recent years been distorted by then sure capitalism profit makers will of families may face debt spiral forceful debt collections which in some occasions cellette to suicide are you aware of this. yes one thing i want to correct it is not the grameen model if it is a grammy model it will not go into leasing i p o and so on so forth we're not in the business we're not here to make money out of our activity so they deviated from the government given model that's where all the problems took place they want to make it the money making enterprise for shareholders so they want to do x. eight people say if you lend money to the poor people you can make a lot of money out of it i said that's an entirely the opposite of going back system government system is to help poor people poor women particularly to change

their life and nobody is trying to make money out of them those who want to make money out of them by misusing them in concept they turn the whole thing into long sharking direction and we're of course to loan sharking and that's how we were born opposing loan sharks so we don't want microcredit or green bank to be used to become law that's why we condemned it and we said it said tallis wrong thing they should not even use the word microcredit for themselves let alone i mean bank microcredit so you're saying this kind of things don't happen in bangladesh there are no families that have actually been worse off after borrowing money in grameen that before. there are many many microcredit programs including grameen bank itself none of them is devoted to making money for any individual person eighty collection of shareholders it's all dedicated to serve the people as i said in grameen bank itself it's owned by the government borrowers in

other instances n.g.o.s it's a question of making money from the people doesn't arise in bangladesh those kind of deviation didn't take place it took place in india and on the top of this the one that you are mentioning and we have condemned it very heavily we wrote about it we made press statement. about a similar thing happens to the left in america particularly in mexico through. one of the district issues there rican them there too and they also wanted to make i.p.o. and get people businesspeople excited that you can invest in mexico didn't make a lot of money out of the poor people which is a totally totally wrong message now bangladesh prime minister she has seen a dismissed you from crimean bank in two thousand and ten citing that you were older then demanded her retirement age of sixty personal how painful was his decision for you and did you retain some of the homes and. retirement.

it is very painful because it was done in a kind of inconsiderate way because we were not taken as a government bank government applied the government bends rule on to grameen bank saying that you are not following the government bank's rule of the term and we said this is a bank owned by poor women we have our own rules our old law allows that so this distinction about the age limit doesn't apply to getting bank board is very clear to men but it in any case. i was asked to resign so i resigned and came out of it but that doesn't mean the whole grameen bank subtly became a foreigner to me this is part of my life it's part of me it's part of my family so i feel i belong to the bank family were there and i'm in a position of decision making or executive position or i'm not but this is my baby

and i work together of people who work there is a part of my team but we always work together since is the very day it was born when he was a little infant we not cheerlead in helping to grow any grown nationwide than ugly mean idea has a spread all over the world i still go around do that in that position has not change the relationship or structure so you're somewhat of a senior consultant to the bank now without really having a real power in meddling in its affairs right. well i will not say this word sounds very commercial by delicious serious not a commercial relationship i would just a friend i would say i'm a friend and i still feel part of the team no i don't hold a position within the bank but that doesn't mean my views are ignored within giving back because they look up to me because they know that every single procedure in every single methodological of government bank i build them piece by piece so they

look up to me for guided. it's time for our share break now we'll be right back with that mr muhammad yunus to ask a little bit more about what happened in grammy bank and why would he run for president obama but ash and what's to feature of microfinance globally don't go away and. he survived more atrocities. to make a final decision. has changed his life and to world around him. by giving up. hope.

and loves to so many children. nikolai the lyrical work on the tree. the plentiful supply was terrible take now i'm very hard to make out a letter to get along here a plug that never had sex with others make their lives let alone. just say. listen the i'm

living. a. right. first street. and i think that you're. on a record player. i know c.n.n. the m s n.b.c. and fox news have taken some not slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate.

that was funny but it's closer to the truth and might think. it's because when full attention and the mainstream media works side by side the joke is actually on here the kind that come. at our teen years we have a different approach to the good because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not. ok. you guys talk to the jokes i will handle the stuff that i've got to.

welcome back we're talking to muhammad yunus demesne behind the idea of micro finance and the founder of grand main banking bangladesh good to have you back so just to talk a little bit more about what happened in grameen bank can you promise to have seen i wanted to split the bank into nineteen groups he rejected that idea which probably also played a part in your downfall on top of that bangladesh government has this idea to actually bring to growing dark under the central banks jurisdiction what's wrong with all of that. well this all came for political reasons there's no concrete issue about i mean by dividing up a splitting up grameen bank in one thousand pieces only only going to say you

destroy the bank if somebody wants to destroy the bank that's the best way to do so cut it up chop it off it's gone so that idea even the government to this is not they are not in favor of chopping it off they will do something else but in any case behind everything else looks like there is an attempt to control crimean banks and our preview the law that we started out with makes it very clear that it should be guided by its own board board is the ultimate decision making body but the present government somehow didn't like that so they want to intervene into the activities of crimean banks and that's why all these nineteen pieces and all control mechanism and changing the law amending the law to into the to the bank all this thinking about and this seemed to be not very friendly to the bank itself

and any action that is being taken. nobody in the world will say that is in the interest of the bank of the poor people and i'm very worried about it and i tried to draw attention of everybody of the same person that look you have to stop that this is a great a distribution this is being so much good for the people in the particularly poorly families and the poor women in the world that has given so much and parliament to the women in bangladesh and it is becoming a global phenomenon bringing same thing in many many countries almost every single country including russia. has microcredit program so today to go back to. the origin of the whole idea the grameen bank and to harm it it will be totally painful and alex. but among the shia government has launched legal actions against you for overseas tax evasion you were ousted from being boss of grameen bank for working class retiring range finance minister alleges you have wrongly received tax

exemptions while chief of a public institution between two thousand and four and eleven a lot of accusations in a very short period of time where are they coming from and why now. no because the government because the government. finds it appropriate for them to do it for political reasons and all the allegations that you have listed again and again been demonstrated we are sent all the information to the public to make sure that they understand it's all baseless there is no ground for example the case of tax evasion. it was decided in the cabinet meeting that my information should be examined by the texaco it is in its report should be submitted to the text of the cabinet itself out of ministers and they did then they said we've investigated every detail so professor yunus this tax returns and he did it everything correctly

we have no problem we here is not mr a single penny in texas so we have no problem with that. but when it was not satisfied with that it will be sent back again to make more inquiries to that they can find something else so this is the kind of thing you take certain at least keep coming back and finally in the final report tech separately says well only only one thing we can say that probably he didn't ask for permission to make this income to speak. to go to foreign countries and make the speeches and accept all of the i'm for that so he needed under the government law he needed permission and then our position is it was never a government bank super question of taking permission never rules at our board never felt that there's something that i need permission from the government and then governments itself are saying that since by two thousand i became six sixty or

all after there are no longer barely. managing director so all b c c the information. government is seeking about income tax is after two thousand so if i'm not a government servant according to them that i was not a government servant after two thousand the question of taking permission from the government doesn't erase it all so again it makes no sense so every single one of them does said i trust for a lot of money from grameen bank to my private organization private companies and i made it very clear to the back to the people in bangladesh that not only i don't have private organization of my or i don't own any single share in any company anywhere so the question of me owning anything doesn't it is because i don't own anything so that's very clear so question of just throwing money to buy organization doesn't advance then this idea of transferred money to another

dominican a solution yes i did because that was the requirement of the agreement between the between the donor organization and gunmen in the region authority we lose money was involved in that mr exiled home who is the development minister he made it pretty clear quick the statement he said no whatever was done was done legitimately there was nothing wrong doing it so he made it clear to do so if you think accuses the base of base and behind it yes i mean about sixty minutes that it does look like when it does look like that the government just wants you out of the picture i'm just trying to figure out why are i do you represent some kind of threat to them. well you could make a speculation some in the press makes a lot of this speculation anybody's entitle to speculation but definitely nothing of the thing that has done looks additional to anybody in the world within bangladesh and outside bangladesh many people believe leaders around the world

protested against what is happening to them in bend and many people inside the government said the banker this protested even the opposition in bangladesh to. which is a very powerful opposition this it everything this current government is doing to grameen bank if the opposition they come to power they will undo everything they have done because they are done they have done it so wrongly so badly so they will do that nobody is supporting this or cause at all but i know that you in the words of the man who are the owners of green bay i know that you have been an outspoken critic of successive governments in bangladesh not just this particular government plus like you said you had you have eight point three million borrowers so that also constitutes some political discourse on its own right in bangladesh it's a lot of people that said that explanation this is they said that probably government sees a political benefit in controlling them in banks so that they can get some

political mileage again this is a speculation i cannot say with whether this is true or not but it's a fact that this is an organization which is about one fourth of the total population of bangladesh is we didn't come in bank so we are linked with the one fourth of the population which has one fourth of the voters are included within government banks so definitely politicians could look into it in that way did today prevent but again the same logic you might say then government should be be friending grameen bank credit them confronting grameen bank so it did that doesn't make sense why did it he did all those people who are in germany in bank but taking a read their rights when you take away their rights they won't be your best your friend they will be forced to you so politically doesn't look like a very same step on the part of the government so people in bangladesh think that you're somewhat of a hero plus you disagree with many of the things these governments were doing why

didn't you run for president yourself. well i don't want to be in politics that i've made it very clear again and again in two thousand and seven when there is a vacant political. many people in bangladesh try to perceive me to join politics so that down under pressure i said ok i'll join politics and i'll create a political party but we didn't ten weeks i came back and said no i'm not going to join politics and i'm not going to create a political party and since then i never even thought about joining politics or creating a political party of my own and i don't whatever i'm doing is so much important. to consented of that if you get into politics and bangladesh politics is not a very exciting life in terms of. corruption in terms of the we do and environment of politics is i thought this is not the kind of environment that i can work with so i work in

a way where i see transparency where i see i feel feel comfortable with it i don't feel that much comfortable in the other side so i wanted to stay with that ok how will the possible demise of grameen bank in bangladesh effect its followers around the world. well first of all i don't think they'll be demise of grameen bank they'll be the damages of grameen bank not demand demise of grameen bank government is a very well established organization is a very. strong organization financially strong organization institutionally with the strong organization i don't think anybody can bring demise to it but don't lots of harm in the short term can be done. and then. our job and meaning my job and my colleagues the team that bill because i mean back in the bottle of themselves is to go back and fix it and make sure that it become

not only strong in becomes stronger organization and i'm sure. we will get support from the public we'll get support global support and i want supporters i wonder at my editor said on the world would be proud of us. we have for today our guests was nobel prize winner and pioneer of microfinance bangladesh economist. thank you for watching and cheering for the next edition of step the incredible. if you nothing and you've got no opportunity. to start

to construct your current. queue no longer be a bit give don't want to be gangsters you don't want to be. deal with it only then will we know the time that the king came to be we can see. you just meet the brothers i was in my own problems in the hood and what a very very wrong. but it felt like. i said. i don't want to die i just really do not want to die young young. one of the new coming along the bank of new knowledge base i dislike you.

a pleasure to have you with us here on our team today i'm sure. i've. lived. in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want.

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a. list. to go to the. technology innovation all the latest developments from around russia we've. covered. such a pall mall of the country fourteen olympics what's this place like the why is is so special as the russian resort prepares to welcome the world power the games shaping the city's present and future life mall so it will bring it this is a momentary pause you followed very cold and snowy windy mountainous tough yet beyond the olympics but come on say today on our team.

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beat me away as the right to drill in greenland's pristine eyes after promising it will be careful but activists are unconvinced pointing to the gulf of mexico disaster and the firm's checkered past as warnings of what's to come. as security collapse in iraq worsens a wave of bombings killing twenty people in the capital as an al qaida offshoot exploit the dire situation to gain control over the city of fallujah. and britain's pm threatens to take on the e.u. over a cutting welfare team in grants but critics say it's a cynical move to lure voters back from the right.