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going to. share not say no to keep things are more depressing than looking. they're especially when it's out by choice but by circumstance is there a global solution to the poverty maybe not but luckily for sure we have. why does poverty persist why are the poor poor and the rich richer over half of the world lives on less than two and a half dollars a day children have no chance caught in this cycle below the poverty line what does it take to tackle poverty can a rising tide lifts all boats kind of to empower i think courage we speak to a poverty pioneer who began with faith and a few dollars for. our guest today is mohammad yunus noble

peace prize winner the pioneer of micro finance to financial strategy that's lifted millions out of poverty mr yunus first of all let me start by saying that we're really glad to have you on our program today and i'm just going to go ahead and start with a question that all of our viewers are asking so how soon can worst pay back their depth to your bank is there a risk of being indebted for life to your bank for example. in the bank. to repay the loan is chosen by the board or she could pay it back in one month she can pay back in six months whatever she decides or two years is flexible but the can not conventionally within most of the borrowers like the end will cycle within a one year in a week to the stallman you pay back your loan and then you borrow another one and continue to do that. but what happens and it's no question of getting into debt

burden but what happens if you cannot pay the housing there's no question of up to her if she said i cannot pay back we didn't fifty two weeks of the one year and i need a few weeks weeks more scheduling as long as she wants to pay we have no problem we are not here to punish or for the time period we are here to help her so that she can use the money and earn enough money because these are all income generating loan in other words you invest in something which will generate income and you play back the bank in the stilly have some money left for you out of your income so the term period is not a big concern for us it's up to you and if you say well i thought i'll pay back in six months but then i in the fifth month they found out that i'll need more time then six months you say it and we reschedule it for another whatever number of months you need because after all you're paying back we have no grudge against you or any any other thing we don't want to make any problem for the borrowers we are

we're not in a penalty mood for anybody we're not punishing everybody for anything we all to or want to be helpful to them so that these defined it convenient they find it helpful to deal with the bank now i know your organization was eventually created to help people but what happens if you're poor or cannot generate income after borrowing money. sure it's possible big businesses fail for example a borrower took a long to buy a car and she did a very good with in the beginning month and the third month the cow died she cannot pay back anymore so we don't punish her for the death of a cow we consult with her without a group members how best to help her and there was a few once in a long would be very happy to do that so boarders come back and say she wants to take a loan for another car so we give her a fresh loan all rule is never forgiven is not this not written off is still on the books but your main concern now is to pay back the second lawn and then on

top of that if you pay a little bit more would you go in the first loan that finally gets so in practice the first loan becomes a long term law it doesn't put everybody on her but the second loan becomes a loan for another year or so so that we tried to solve the problem we did in our brains with the rules so that rules should not be to punish or the crimean micro finance bank in itself is a huge institution it is impossible to control all its activities personally surely it's possible that some bad practices could have occurred in your bank's operations no. possible in your organization you talk about government you talk about big businesses there are some people who'll make wrong thing bad judgment and so on it happens in government bank also but compared to any other big large nationwide institution i would say. bank is almost free from all those mistakes. in

significant number of mistakes happen and we try to rectify it we try to put in a system where you can detect any fault any any problem that arises in the system because the system is computerized so that you can check it right from your head office what's going on in the remote villages in the remote branches we work it all over bangladesh every single village in bangladesh has access to them invent microcredit program so we have borrowers all around the country we have eight and a half million borrowers ninety seven percent of them are women they're all connected with our system of saying that. must mention that the bank is all by the board so burrill lost somebody outsiders she is in control she's the boardroom and she's the owner and she's sensibly presented to sit in the board seats or whoever would make a decision is actually her represent did it all and like a body like her so it's not something that some big banks or somebody came in give

you a long and they don't know you you don't know the mystery of like there is a family kind of thing it's eight and a half million women's family so we worked it as a kind of a organization to be with them and for them. but here it would problems arise that was reported recently that grammy model in south india has in recent years been distorted by then sure capitalism profit makers will of families may face debt spiral forceful debt collections which in some occasions are let to suicide are you aware of this. yes one thing i want to correct it is not the grameen model if it is a grameen model it will not go into leasing i p o and so on so what we are not in that business we are not here to make money out or activity so they deviated from the government coming model that's where all the problems took place they wanted to

make it the money making enterprise for shareholders so they want to dick said people saying if you lend money to the poor people you can make a lot of money out of it i said that's an entirely the opposite of coming back system government system is to help poor people poor women particularly to change their life and nobody is trying to make money out of them those who want to make money out of them by misusing them in concept they turned the whole thing into long sharking direction and we're of course to launch sharking and that's how we were born opposing loan sharks so we don't want micro credit or green bank to be used to become law that's why we condemned it and we said it said turly wrong thing they should not even use the word microcredit for themselves let alone mean bank microcredit so you're saying this kind of things don't happen in bangladesh there are no families that have actually been worse off after borrowing money in grameen that before. there are many many microcredit programs

including grameen bank itself none of them is devoted to making money for any individual person eighty collection of shareholders it's all dedicated to serve the people as i say didn't mean bank itself it's owned by the giving them voters in other instances the indios it's a question of making money from the people doesn't arise in bangladesh those kind of deviation didn't take place it took place in india and on the top of this the one that you are mentioning and we have condemned it very heavily we wrote about it we made press statement. about a similar thing happened in america particularly in mexico through. one of the district issues the rican them there too and they also wanted to make i.p.o. and get people businesspeople excited that you can invest in mexico didn't make a lot of money out of the poor people which is a totally totally wrong message now bangladesh prime minister she has seen

a dismissed you from crimean bank in two thousand and ten citing that you were older then demanded her retirement age of sixty personal how painful was his decision for you and did you retain some of the homes and. retirement. it is very painful because it was done in a kind of inconsiderate way because we were not taken as a government bank government applied the government bends rule on to grameen bank saying that you are not following the government bank's rule of the term and we said this is a bank owned by poor women we have our own rules our old law allows that so this distinction about the age limit doesn't apply to getting bank board is very clear in there but in any case. i was asked to resign so i resigned and

came out of it but that doesn't mean the whole got me bang suddenly became a foreigner to me this is part of my life it's part of me it's about of my family so i feel i belong to the bank family we're going to i'm in a position of decision making or executive position of i'm not but this is my baby and i work together of people who work there is a part of my team but we want to work together since is the very day it was born when he was a little infant we not cheerlead in helping to grow any grown nationwide than a grammy now i did his a spread all over the world i still grew around do that in that position has not changed that relationship or structure so you're somewhat of a senior consultant to the bank now without really having real power in meddling in its affairs right. well i will not sit this word sells very commercial but english is not a commercial relationship and i would just defend i would say i'm a friend and i still feel part of the team no i don't hold the position within the

bank but that doesn't mean my view is that he didn't give it back because they look up to me because they know that every single procedure at every single but that the laws of governing bank build them piece by piece so they look up to me for guidance temperature break now we'll be right back up with their mr muhammad yunus to ask a little bit more about what happened to graham in the bank why when he ran for president bangladesh and wants to feature of microfinance globally then go away and .

he survived the atrocities. to make of cycles a solution. he has changed his life and the world around him. by giving. hope. and love to so many children. nikolai the lyrics work on t.v. . dramas that can't be ignored to. stories others refuse to notice. things. since changing the world lights never. so picture focused a. lot. from around the globe. up to.

the brightness of the first triplets a night gripping picture of the be the fun army for the splinter. i'm against the law. to be a mum. but . we're going to do that you know the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open process is critical to our democracy. rule. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of

our government and our silicon we've been hijacked right handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers one that's my job market and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying problems. rational debate real discussion critical issues facing them you know ready to join the movement then welcome to their. welcome back we're talking to muhammad yunus to man behind the idea of micro finance and the founder of graham main banking bangladesh good to have you back so

just to talk a little bit more about what happened and brought me a bag a new premise i have seen i wanted to split the bank into nineteen groups he rejected that idea which probably also played a part in your downfall on top of that bangladesh government has this idea to actually bring the growing bargain to the central banks jurisdiction what's wrong with all of that. well this all came for political reasons there's no concrete issue about that i mean by dividing up the splitting of grameen bank in one thousand pieces only only to say you destroy the bank if somebody wants to destroy the bank that's the best way to do so cut it up chop it off it's gone so that idea even the government to this is known or they are not in favor of chopping it off they will do something else but in any case behind everything else looks like there is an attempt to control crimean banks in our preview the law that we

started out with makes it very clear that it should be guided by its own board board is the ultimate decision making body but the present government somehow didn't like that so they want to intervene into the activities of crimean banks and that's why all these nineteen pieces and all control mechanism and changing the law amending the law to into did to the bank all these thinking about in this seem to be not very friendly to the bank itself and any action that is being taken. nobody in the world will see and that is in the interest of the bank of the world people and i am bill worried about it and i tried to draw attention of everybody of the same person that look you have to stop that this is a greater distribution this is being so much good for the people in the particularly poor in families and the poor women in the world that has given so much empowerment to the women in bangladesh and it is becoming

a global phenomenon bringing same thing in many many countries almost every single country including russia. has microcredit program so today to go back to. the origin of the whole idea the grameen bank and to harm it it will be totally painful and alex. by the bungled actually government has launched legal actions against you for overseas tax evasion you were ousted from being boss of grameen bank for working past retirement age finance minister alleges you have wrongly received tax exemptions while chief of a public institution between two thousand and four and eleven a lot of accusations in a very short period of time where are they coming from and why now. no because the government because the government. finds it appropriate for them to do it for political reasons and all the allegations that you listed again and again been

demonstrated we are sent all the information to the public to make sure that they understand it's all baseless there is no ground covered for example the case of tax evasion. it was decided in the cabinet meeting that my information should be examined by the text of qualities in its report should be submitted to the text of the cabinet itself out of ministers and they did then they said we've investigated every detail so professor yunus this tax returns and he did it everything correctly we have no problem we here is not mr a single penny in texas so we had no problem with that. but when it was not satisfied with the people they sent it back again to make more inquiries to see if they can find something else so this is the kind of thing you take certainties keep coming back and finally in the final report tech

separately says well only only one thing we can say that probably he didn't ask for permission to make this income to speak. to go to foreign countries and make speeches and accept all of the young for that so he needed under government law he needed permission and then our position is it was never a government bank super question of taking permission never rose at our board never felt that this is something that i need permission from the government and then governments itself are saying that since by two thousand i became six sixty or all after they're. no longer barely. managing director so all b c c the information. government is seeking about income tax is after two thousand so if i'm not a government servant according to them that i was not a government servant after two thousand the question of taking permission from the

government doesn't arise at all so again it makes no sense so every single one of them they said i trust for a lot of money from grameen bank to my private organization private companies and i made it very clear to the back to the people in bangladesh that not only i don't have private organization of my or i don't own any single share in any company anywhere so the question of me owning anything doesn't it is because i don't own anything so that's very clear so question of just throwing money to buy organization doesn't then they say do you transfer that money to another damning organization yes i did because that was the equipment of the agreement between the between the donor organization and gunmen in the region authority we lose money was involved in that mr x. oldtime who is the development minister he made it pretty clear statement he said no whatever was done was done legitimately there was nothing wrong doing it so he

made it clear to do so if you think accuses the base of base and behind it yes i mean about a sixty year retirement it said it does look like when it does look like that big government just wants you out of the picture i'm just trying to figure out why are you represent some kind of threat to them. well you could make a speculation some in the press makes a lot of the speculation anybodies and title to speculation but definitely nothing of the thing that has done looks additional to anybody in the world both within bangladesh and outside bengal this many people believe leaders around the world protested against what is happening to them in bed and many people inside the government said the bangladesh protested even the opposition in bangladesh to. which is a very powerful opposition this it everything this current government is doing to grameen bank if the opposition they come to power they will undo everything they have done because they have done they have done it so wrongly so badly so they will

do that nobody is supporting this cause at all but i know that you are in the only worse of greenbank who are the owners of grameen bank i know that you have been an outspoken critic of successive governments in bangladesh not just this particular government plus like you said you had you have eight point three million borrowers so that also constitutes some political forest on its own right in bangladesh it's a lot of people that said that explanation this is said to probably government sees a political benefit in controlling the banks so that they can get some political mileage again this is a speculation i cannot say whether whether this is true or not but the fact that this is an organization which is about one fourth of the total population of bangladesh is we didn't get any bank so we are linked with the one fourth of the population which moves one fourth of the voters are included within government banks would definitely politicians could look into it in that way did today prevail

but again the same logic you might say then government should be be friending grameen bank credit them confronting coming back so you give that doesn't make sense why did it he did all those people who are in germany in bank but taking a read their rights when you take away their rights they won't be your best your friend they will be opposed to you so politically doesn't look like a very same step on the part of the government so people in bangladesh think that you are somewhat of a hero plus you disagree with many of the things these governments were doing why didn't you run for president yourself. well i don't want to be in politics that i've made it very clear again and again in two thousand and seven when there is a vacant political. many people in bangladesh try to perceive me to join politics so that down under pressure i said ok i'll join politics and i'll create a political party but we didn't ten weeks i came back and said no i'm not going to

join politics and i'm not going to create a political party and since then i never even thought about joining politics or creating a political party of my own and i don't whatever i'm doing is so much important. to concentrate on that if you get into politics and bangladesh politics is not a very exciting life in terms of. corruption in terms of that we do and environment of politics is i thought this is not the kind of environment that i can work with so i work in a way where i see transparency where i see i feel feel comfortable and i don't feel that much comfortable in the other side so i wanted to stay away from that ok how will the possible demise of grameen bank in bangladesh effect its followers around the world. well first of all i don't think they'll be demise of grameen bank they'll be damages of grameen bank not demand demise of grameen bank i mean many of

the very well established organization is a very. strong organization financially strong organization institutionally with a strong organization i don't think anybody can bring demise to it but don't lots of harm in the short term can be done. and then. our job and meaning my job and my colleagues the team that bill's going to mean back in the bottle of themselves is to go back and fix it and make sure that it become not only strong it becomes stronger organization and i'm sure. we will get support from the public we'll get support global support and i want supporter zero zero zero at miter to sit on the world would be proud of us that's a long time we have for today our guests was nobel prize winner and pioneer of microfinance bangladesh economist platonic you know thank you for watching and cheering for the next edition of stuff because.

millions around the globe struggle with hunger each good. what if someone offers a lifetime food supply no charge they carry subdeacon their very strong position against g.m.o. and we think that. the genetically modified products are pretty cool tool there is no. evidence to this any problem with genetic engineering when you make a deal. or is free cheese always in the most crap i don't believe

the. poor and the free. enterprise is profit. for social justice golden rice barkeep. for the new cultural moment life should be making new knowledge face neither should i be doing. pleasure to have you with us here on our t.v. today i roll researcher.

i know c.n.n. the m s n b c news have taken some slightly but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be accurate. that was funny but it's close and for the truth from that might think. it's because one whole attention and the mainstream media works side by side the joke is actually on here. coming up. at our teen years we have a different thread. because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not how. you guys talk to the jokes i will handle to make us happy.

i. see british style it's time to. market. find out what's really happening to the global economy for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause a report on.

iraq's president calls on the occupied city of fallujah to expel islamist rebels that seized the city on friday as the army gathers forces for a full was sold on the extremist. greenland opens its pristine arctic territories to oil companies for the first time as a country seeks cash and independence are he looks at the debate sparked by the decision. britain's prime minister toughened up their rhetoric on immigration but too little too late says he's say his critics who claim is only looking for votes. the search international coming to life.