i think. everybody told you. that you know the price is the only industry specifically mention in the constitution. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy which. then again i'm sorry and i'm this show we reveal the picture of what's actually going on and we go beyond identifying the truth rational debate real discussion critical issues facing camera. ready to join the movement then welcome the big picture. i am sam saxon for tom hartman in washington d.c. here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture. so far congress has refused to

tackle america's out of control national security state lawmakers on the state level are taking the matter into their own hands the latest on actions in the golden state that could curtail the spying powers of the n.s.a. . also new jersey governor chris christie is in some hot water today after news broke that his staff allegedly caused a traffic nightmare for the people of the new york metro area in retaliation for a political snub so we'll what some are calling the bridge gate bring down the republican darling governor. and today is the fiftieth anniversary of l.b.j.'s war on poverty speech in which president johnson envisioned a brighter and more rewarding future for all americans how can we achieve l.b.j.'s dream for america and become a more equal and prosperous society. and

we start tonight with this this is the n.s.a.'s massive new spy center under construction in bluffdale utah once completed it will serve as a gigantic repository for all that data the n.s.a. is collecting data collection that you may have heard about in recent news reports over the last six months this is a result of edward snowden's leaks we know that the n.s.a. is collecting enormous amounts of data there's the phone metadata virtually every american there's five hundred million data connections in germany every month collected and there's two hundred fifty million online address books collected every single year plus there's a lot more the n.s.a. is just scooping up a ton of stuff and these enormous collection numbers millions and billions of communications are made possible by the new way we all talk to each other online

digitally the records of our conversations are not on paper logs or recording tapes they're all just bits of information that can be stored in computers and that's made it possible for the n.s.a. to basically collect it all whereas the spy chief say create the haystack to find the needle just collect everything so that later if they need to they can go back and look at it this is what edward snowden has revealed but returning to the spy center in utah this very expensive been very technological construction effort underway is a reminder that even though data has transitioned from the physical world to the digital world it still requires a lot of physical hardware and space to store all of it this is broad dragnet surveillance efforts seem limitless but they do actually have physical limitations limitations that the n.s.a. is discovering out in utah that spy center was supposed to open up in august of

last year. but as the n.s.a. admitted due to massive electrical problems at the utah data center the agency missed their scheduled september twenty fourth completion date and dedication ceremony yes a series of very costly electrical problems have crippled the billion dollar plus facility there have been more than ten electrical meltdowns occurring there in the past year and it's unclear just what the problem is but again this proves there are physical limitations to what the n.s.a. is trying to do with their digital collection that's why similar construction projects at n.s.a. facilities have been basically ongoing since nine eleven the n.s.a.'s headquarters in fort meade maryland is already grown to be larger than the pentagon and will be fifty percent bigger when construction is done there in the next decade and as a sites in texas and colorado and georgia and in utah have also been expanded more physical space to collect more digital data you can almost think of it as one of

the n.s.a.'s few weaknesses after all the white house the congress and the courts haven't reined in the n.s.a. but physical limits to data storage might at least that's what a group of lawmakers in california are hoping this week the fourth amendment protection act was introduced in the california state senate and in aims to restrict the n.s.a.'s indiscriminate spying by prohibiting state and local agencies from providing any support to the n.s.a. in other words it would be illegal for government owned utilities like water and electric to offer their services to the n.s.a. they're currently no n.s.a. data centers in california but if this law was passed it would prevent any and it's a data centers for moving into the area anytime soon. but the law could have significant effects on the us if it's passed and save the do have collection facilities like that data center in utah which is estimated to create a million dollar a month electric bill but if you shut off the utilities you shut off the data collection so is this a viable avenue of attack against the n.s.a.

is on constitutional spying powers now hopefully joining us will be one of the senators behind this bill state senator ted lieu in the meantime i want to turn it over to progressive commentator sweet welcome back to the show started talk a little bit about this here. i touched briefly on this bill per prevent it providing it prevents state owned utilities from providing services like water garbage collection electricity to the n.s.a. what else does this bill do that could bring in the n.s.a. is one thing with the it one of the also interesting things it's pretty public universities from instruction from holding any sort of research facilities for the n.s.a. as we know the n.s.a. reach extends far beyond just the usual practices it's done in partners at the universities even some private universities so i think what you're seeing here with this builds and attempt to try to chip away at each individual individual part of the surveillance state and all the different now puzzle pieces that make it.

wondering about the constitutionality of this measure i mean if there's federal laws that force companies to comply with the n.s.a. requests for information in the states coming in trying to make a state law that says you can't do that it seems like we've run into a constitutional issue there were actually wonder if this is an actual attempt at reform or if this is kind of a protest piece to. get other people on board with this this issue in bringing in the well i think it's a little bit bit of both i think once we're once you're dealing with the issue of n.s.a. spying to begin with we're already entering the realm of constitutionality i think there are a lot of people would say the issue of constitutionality already got thrown out the end thrown out the window and you had mass surveillance of almost the entire population control and up and. data but i think when you look at the long term effects of this california as you said doesn't have any n.s.a. facilities currently and within its borders i think this is really just a protest measure on its way back state lawmakers to try to force people in washington to take action at the federal level way as you know there are

a bunch of bills currently being proposed at the federal level not of the past so far the president is considering. some of the changes recommended by his viewpoint i think this is really a way to push the federal government for it on its own review efforts it will be interesting to see what sort of reform efforts are pushed to be made there the president is going to come out at the beginning of this year and announce which of the forty six recommendations has him picked panel came out with which ones he'll support and there seems to be momentum building for stronger reforms in congress that senators like ron wyden and rand paul and congressman like jim crow years just a marsh are pushing as opposed to that weak watered down reform that some of the spy chief so there's a intel committee chairs like dianne feinstein and mike rogers are pushing but one thing that's strange about this law that it's going out in california and it's probably going to be introduced in utah and in other cities own as well arizona to maryland even is that the organization behind the tenth amendment center. is kind of a notification group they've pushed similar tenth amendment states' rights laws to

restrict obamacare they've done it to preempt federal gun laws it just shows how this issue has created strange bedfellows when you have democratic state senators joining up with no fires to push legislation or into the you know why i mean i think it's as someone who's a progressive commentator and someone who wants someone who's been following this station from the beginning i think it's interesting that the people that are getting out ahead of most of these problem most of the reform efforts are people that we technically categorize in the political right and they think as progressives there needs to be efforts to you know reclaim this issue as not just one of protecting us from the powers of the federal government protecting us from the powers of the federal government. in collusion with private corporations i think that's one thing that's been interesting from the start even you know before the whole n.s.a. spying scandal blew up we had rand paul standing up in congress and this filibuster about drone attacks the libertarian right is really taking the civil liberties issues that have become

a big part of the public discussion in the obama years and to take them on as their own and i think it's something progressive need to watch out for as become a major part of major voting they become major voting issues in twenty fourteen different part of the problem is the fact that you have a democratic president now presiding absolute of that is kind of neutered the far left that should care a lot about these civil liberties and anti-war issues i think absolutely i think there are people that are unwilling to criticize the president per se on these issues because they feel like they owe him some sort of loyalty on because they're part of his political party i think also. there is obama has been successful in protecting himself as a thoughtful president who really takes time takes the time to consider these issues in their constitutionality so i think there are some people that think maybe he might be right or maybe he just you know is caught in a trap but i think in the long run a lot of it just has to do with political loyalties which is unfortunate but it seems to be what's happened now i'm curious what sort of opposition these kind of state level bills might face because we see on of on a federal level of

a national level that's not a left or right issue as we were just talking about we have no love here is joining with progressives on this issue but you don't you see the breakdown on leadership versus rank and file members it's. the house leadership in senate leadership that tend to be defending to say especially on the intelligence committees and it's rank and file members who are kind of pushing these reform efforts while it's also people who have been in washington for a while who have made friends with people in the intelligence agencies people who have worked with people in the surveillance state private contracting industries i think it's a lot of that as well it's not just rank and file versus leadership it's people who have cavorted with the with the private intelligence complex and people who have been elected into office to try to confront those things as well that include. also what these lawmakers are pushing think of edward snowden you see on a federal lever level the lawmakers who are pushing for these reforms still aren't willing to go all the way and call for clemency for snowden as your times in the guardian have right but they they want to use the leaks to push for reform efforts of the yeah it's sort of ironic you think lawmakers should be thankful for edward

stand at least if not because he's revealed almost extreme levels of criminality in the higher reaches of the federal government but he's also given a good issue to run on in campaign dollars as well. commentator nate's thanks so much for coming on and apologies to state senator ted lieu we'll try to get you back on the show soon coming up yesterday with the help of six republicans the senate moved forward a bill that would extend the nation's unemployment insurance program by three months for republicans in the house is willing to extend the vital lifeline for millions of unemployed americans that are more. liberal rumble.

i've got a quote for you. it's pretty tough. stay with sob story. but if this guy like you would smear that guys in stead of working for the people most issues in the mainstream media were pretty much over bribery must be easier to fight this. rather. if. it was a. very hard to take. once again to come on here playing live

happily ever had sex with her thick hair cut if. you want. if it was what if. if. if . the.

it's wednesday and it's time for the big picture rumble joining me tonight are kyle petersen managing editor of the american spectator neil soroka communications director at the american democracy for america and chris coleman conservative commentator and activist thank you all for joining me let's get started so the first block we talked about efforts to rein in the n.s.a. we now have had all three branches of the federal government. the courts congress and the white house all in some way say that the n.s.a. has overstepped their bounds so what what should reform look like moving forward what do we make first off of this idea that's going on a state level of restricting public utilities from providing services to i guess kind of starve out or cut off electricity and water to n.s.a.

facilities that's something that has any any legs here well i think that it's a creative idea that's maybe the most that can be said because it's a constitutional i don't know i mean whether it's constitution or i can't see it working practically i mean the federal government has significant power to assert pressure on states to do it it wants that's why we have a minimum drinking age naturally so even if it passes in a state like utah where there is a data center i just simply can't see a state official sitting there with guns and survive this is new i was talking to talk nader earlier about this this issue has created strange bedfellows and as a progressive do you really want to embrace a sort of nullification argument to tackle the n.s.a. which might hurt you down the road if you're pushing. for state exchanges in obamacare that exactly the problem with advancing an elevation argument is just a it's a nonstarter for progressives on a lot of different issues and we shouldn't start here this is a bad issue we need the president and congress to take bold action to prevent the problems that the n.s.a.

has been revealed thanks to. but i don't think this is the right path forward chris where do you fall in all this do you think give incentives to be reform moving forward i have a problem with the sort of data collection they've been engaging with. yes i do have a problem with that i do think they need to be reformed i don't think this is the way to do it i mean it is creative but they're kind of going along the anti commandeering. planned but it's never been used for utilities it's for laws and regulations so you know what's going to happen when rick perry or a conservative decides that they're going to cut off utilities to planned parenthood facilities i mean come on it's really it's not the path that we want to go down using the state till it is it can come back and bite you in the end so we have to be really careful about the precedent of this i think we need to reform the n.s.a. one of the one of the reforms being talked about is to remove the n.s.a.'s power to keep these databases these enormous databases where they're collecting metadata and whatever other whatever content they might collect as well and just storing it here

and the idea is to move them out of the n.s.a.'s hands and into telecom and tech companies hands. where do you fall on that i mean is does that still sacrifice individuals privacy you know we're talking about isn't sort of the government holding all this data we now have corporations are holding all the stuff that does that trouble you just as much well i think the devil's in the details i mean one of the revelations from some of the leaks was that the n.s.a. and the federal government had had in some sense have gotten around a lot of telecom security measures or breached them in such a way that they still had access to that information anyway so i think the devil such a reform like that would be just exactly how how it would play out in front door access to these but they're also using the backdoor to get into these tech companies you know i mean i think progressive should be concerned about corporations having access and being required to hold on to information for as long as the n.s.a. was was doing it i think we have reason to be very upset about what the n.s.a. did did and we should be just as upset if if corporations are required to hold on

to that person on course how difficult is it to go to corporations and say i don't want you holding my data when this whole business model created by google and yahoo is the fact that they do take their data and they do give it away so that they can offer free e-mail services and free child service yeah it is i think the most important thing as consumers that we need to know is that it is happening that these private corporations are keeping our information. so whatever you put online whatever you do you have to know that ahead of time but to have the federal government come in and then require them to do that is just going i think beyond the pale one last year on this and then we'll move on there's been claims made that the n.s.a. has fundamentally broken the internet especially with their efforts to water down in christian standards and to basically hawk fake fake encryption to companies that sell computer security do you think that the n.s.a. has done fundamental damage to the internet and we now we're seeing all these reforms about balkanization of the internet each country having their own internet as a result of this stuff are we going to be able to get beyond what the n.s.a.

has done on the internet so i can't speak to the technical aspects of that but one of the fundamental core pieces of the internet anyway is openness i mean things like wikipedia would continue to exist no matter what the n.s.a. has done to encrypt it and i think the key point is is to as chris christie found out today or his staff found out today not putting in an e-mail that you would want in the front page of new york times are going to matter one last word on this no i think that's precisely right i think at the end of the day it's a big question about how corporations and individuals are going to react interact with the government and private information i think there's way too much agreement right on this panel. about unemployment benefits yesterday the senate voted sixty to thirty seven to advance a bill to basically begin debate on a bill which is a huge accomplishment the senate if we can get to a point where we can just debate a bill six republicans joined democrats in voting for the measure. but now it's going to it's probably going to pass the senate and it is going to have to go to

the house the g.o.p. led house and they're demanding pay for it and it's like this and it's going to find pay for years in order to get it passed but i'm guessing that the house republicans are going to say ok i know the perfect pay for for this let's delay obamacare for a year and pay for unemployment benefits we now have millions of people getting insurance at the beginning the year because of obamacare and using its. more losing it but that's ok it is a little too late now for republicans to do to pull this gimmick do we really think that they're going to try and defund obamacare to pass unemployment benefits at this point i don't think they will try that in the first place and there's a truck. should try it if it will work and i don't think it will work ok i really think i think that a lot of republicans learned their lesson from the government shutdown which in my view as a conservative was bad for republicans and bad for conservatives i think that the public polls show that it was down to democrats benefit one person in particular i think learned that lesson the key person who is john boehner and he seemed to be

pretty angry when heritage and all these groups came after him for supporting the ryan budget deal and let's let's be clear let's put this in historical context here we have never allowed at the levels that we're talking about today unemployment in this country benefits to expire it just hasn't happened historically before and we've never required pay for us for expansion of unemployment benefits when we're down with i mean that's just a fact that certain you know what's changed while you were playing with it all the demanding you know because the facts are so conveniently tossed out in this debate and that is that we're not talking about all unemployment we're talking about the states provide twenty six weeks then there's an emergency thirteen weeks we're talking about above and beyond that that has only been in place since two thousand and eight we're only talking about those benefits on top of the thirty nine weeks that have only been here as in response to this latest recession and hey i think there are a lot of farm subsidies that can be cut because i think there are

a lot of corporate subsidies what should we do what should we do for these people i mean do you agree with the fundamental concept that we should give us that obscene i think this president has when we have him down we have no you can't pull looking at every one job opening can we really blame someone if they can't find a job no we can't blame them but we can blame the government. and the president's policies over regulation and obamacare and other things that are job killers and rapists so in the meantime as we're blaming the president in the congress can we at least provide some lifeline to these people as they're trying to struggle through but that's what republicans are saying extend the benefits and repeal those regulations that are killing jobs in the first place put those together a package it will resume through congress extending benefits create jobs yeah i mean that's the thing here though it's a tremendous economic stimulus it's creating jobs and if and if we actually continue this system or we're pulling unemployment benefits away from people that's going to hurt our economy even more the fact is we were in a hole much larger than any other recession we've seen in

a very very long time so it's not surprising that it's taken longer for people to get jobs and that's why as we're slowly pulling ourselves out of this ditch let's make sure we don't yet families behind by cutting off unemployment benefits too early i don't want to. offend president obama but his whole idea that unemployment emergency unemployment benefits creates jobs sounds a lot like trickle down economics you know it's not because i'm urging to see benefits to the top you're given a clean up that you're going to keep them going to spend money it's a growing it from the middle it's actually opposite the direct opposite all right let's move on here on monday u.s. district court district court judge admin training delivered a real critical blow to chicago's gun laws chicago's had very strict gun laws for decades now and they've been slowly whittled away by the courts and no he this big bill there was a ban in chicago basically banned all sales of guns and judge chain wrote the stark

reality facing the city cheers thousands of shooting victims and hundreds of murders committed with a gun but on the other side of this case is another feature of government certain fundamental rights are protected by the constitution put outside governments reach including the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense under the second amendment and judge showing said basically chicago's ordinance went too far in banning. legal gun purchasers from acquiring was the right ruling here it was i actually think it was the right ruling at the end of the day we have a constitution for a reason it does protect people's right to own weapons but here's the thing we really want to solve the problem with gun violence in this country there are tons of commonsense gun safety measures that we can embrace that don't include banning guns in banning banning the purchasing of guns you know i grew up in the chicago land area i knew how hard hit this place is with gun violence they were looking for any option and they're facing a lot of you know they're surrounded by states with really lax gun laws so they

picked one option that would work this at the end of the day the ruling was probably the right one but what really needs to happen is we really need robust commonsense gun violence prevention laws from the federal government on down. why is it that people have a fundamental right to him i mean i can understand when that when the second amendment was created guns were much different than they are today and we've already you labeled that certain guns are restricted you can't buy machine guns you can't buy bazookas so the line can be drawn somewhere why can't it be drawn out a handgun well i think what the judge said in the ruling was that what is what is pivotal and what is protected by the constitution is the right to self-defense if you're sitting in your home and someone is breaking in the door for unknown reasons the best option that you have to defend yourself in my view in my view is a handgun and i agree that i think it was absolutely the right ruling i mean if courts have held that the second amendment means that individual citizens have the right to own firearms and what the judge said the obama appointed judge said was

that right requires you to be able to buy a firearm i think it's absolutely right ruling i think where where people will disagree is on what a common sense. gun regulation is you know i think i know people have disagreements about concealed carry and it was interesting a long. this news this week about the ruling detroit's police chief said and came out and said that he believes that responsible citizens good citizens when they concealed carry can help prevent violent crime he's saying this is the police chief of the second or third most violent city in america i mean we should listen to him the vast majority of americans for instance support the idea of a background check for every single gun purchased that's an example of a commonsense gun violence prevention measure that would not be deemed i think it's i think given this recent ruling plus congress's inability to do anything it plus no federal laws enacted on gun control shows that guns aren't being taken away to america just yet more be picture rubble after the break.

and. i would rather i asked questions to people in positions of power instead of speaking on their behalf and that's why you can find my show larry king now right here on our t.v. question. i know c.n.n. m s n b c fox news have taken some knocks lately but the fact is i admire their commitment to cover all sides of the story just in case one of them happens to be

accurate. that was funny but it's closer to the truth and i think. it's because one fall attention and the mainstream media works side by side with joe actually i'm here. and our team is we have a different approach. because the news of the world just is not this funny i'm not laughing dammit i'm not i. but. that's ok. you guys have to jeff's well handed to me except. that. i think i'm.

walking back to tonight's big picture rumble joining me are kyle peterson neil soroka and chris allman let's get back to it and let's talk about the bridge fiasco in new jersey so back in september a few lanes on the george washington bridge were inexplicably shut down which created this traffic nightmare for the small town called fort lee which is right next to the on ramp of the bridge here they begin this story has just leaked and leaked and leaked it's drip drip drip and it slowly was revealed that there was no research being done on the bridge as was originally claimed there was no reason why these bridge lanes were closed it was then speculated that maybe it was political retribution coming from governor christie's office against the town of mayor here and ultimately there.