they look more like rioters. well i think that can be exactly what has been characterized as happening in the ukraine in kiev for the last week i have family in laws in kiev and they're afraid to leave their houses right now because of what is happening it should be said that this is limited to the downtown section of the city and what we have are several thousand ultra nationalist. rioters because we can call them rioters we can call them terrorists we call them insurgents at this point but one thing is sure is not this has nothing to do with democratic protest these people are attacking police with chain weapons and cocktails. bombs pyrotechnics there have been stabbings of police they have been building trebuchets and using bosun arrows and morningstar as we see an absolute medievalism level of violence coming from these people.

several thousand people that are being cheered on and facilitated by the slightly larger crowds on the my done. are. right now engaged on street which is right up the street from them i don and there is no question anymore that this is a democratic protest even the mainstream opposition leaders have made clear for months now of what they call a revolution against the democratically elected government ok all right that's a good characterization anderson i go to you in washington how do you see what's going on here because of a number of news sources i don't care where you go i mean this looks a lot more than just you know sitting down and protesting the government this is gotten quite out of control there are a number of deaths now and we see the governments asking to sit down for talks but all they get is ultimatums from a very small group of people that are using violence and it's quite obvious go

ahead and well. first of all it's interesting to check who started using violence and it's of course the police that have used to violence on a massive scale it started on the thirtieth of november when hundreds of demonstrators who were resting on my dance square were attacked by by riot police then on the first of december we saw or via sprog cutters the masks organized by the regime beating on the riot police and getting no resistance so both of these locations were the regime then on the tenth of december we had another attempt by the riot police to break out and demonstrate which were peaceful and then finally on the sixteenth of january the democratic order is to abolish when. president bush pushed through against all

the parliamentary procedures. and laws put in like laws. all democratic procedures in the ukraine so obviously this is a coup and people have been killed well i mean. you know. the unit called which was elected president of ukraine you would agree with than why don't we just wait for another election to overturn i mean let people go to the ballot box when they have to burn buildings in three hundred police have been injured as well but does it mean that violence on the side of the state is is should be overlooked ok alexander i mean it seems that this is a kid who have endured by police who have been going to the police i would guess vet visits the city to spare called the. head of kate all right but we haven't address we have a third guest on the program we have a third gas start the program we go to alexander in london how do you see the

character is a. playing out in the streets of kiev right now we're well. i would describe it very straightforwardly as a riot and an extremely violent riots and one i'm afraid which has been run by the protesters i think what anders must understand is that my done square does not belong to the protesters it is a public space they have been occupying that public space now for granted two months for happy and anything that would be acceptable in any european city what happened on the thirtieth of november which is supposedly the triggering thing is that they initially said they would go and then they refused to go and of the police as they are entitled to do attempted to disperse them on the first of december we had an extraordinary burst of violence with attacks on public buildings an attempt to storm a police line using a tractor extraordinary violence on that day. and we've had more and more violence

since then with statues toppled all sorts of things like that and i think we've got to remember that when people talk about the police trying to storm the square the story being at the moment is being done by the protesters or shall we not call them protests anymore because i think this is long gone beyond the point of being a peaceful protest let's call them what they are which is rioters and that isn't that what the situation is now can i also do very briefly with what happened in the parliament last week none of us is an expert on ukrainian parliamentary procedure the laws that were passed on that day are perfectly standard laws they're very similar to the kind of laws that have exist in most european countries if you riot in britain the sentence for that is ten years the maximum sentence for that is ten years you need commission six clear days before you hold a protest the police are entitle to put restrictions on their protest and if they

fear that there is a danger to public order they can ban it these are normal laws the reason procedures may have been curtailed and i'm not an expert on parliamentary procedure in the ukraine but if if there were short cuts taken that is again because on the day in question and before the parliamentary opposition tried to obstruct the work of the parliament they locked up the speaker in his office the block use of the electronic system and i think it is very dangerous when we use what happened in parliament to excuse and justify what has been going on in the streets and in the square since then ok mark you kelly tell us about some of the groups that are in my darn right now because some people look at them as protesters the word nationalist is used more like alter nationalists is probably what they are

and even others have called them neo nazis who are these people. yes i'd like to address something that. sloan with all due respect to his academic credentials and standing has been repeating in the pages of the key of post and tonight on this program he has suggested without any substantiation and quite frankly somewhat ill informed and. without any grounding that all of the violence that has been perpetrated against the police which we can all watch nightly live streaming in video from the beginning has been perpetrated by the government themselves so that they have driven tractors into their own lines that they are tossing molotov cocktails and stabbing themselves with knives this is. quite frankly absurd even the most western experts to c.b.c. forward can i interrupt here because this is a straightforward i have it on december first it's very clear you can't lead or

cranes gab. it was the minister of interior vet brought to base a truck anybody who saw the pictures could see that there but otherwise. riot police were just standing to get it beaten beaten but we haven't gone to the democratic elections. which still have a parliamentary elections in october two thousand and twelve so this parliament has on their list and yes i'm sorry i'm sorry to leave our european union and other governments gave that election a clean bill of health ok this is probably what it's getting down to alexandra no that's not at all. we don't know you have a right to be repaired when you don't have a right to your own facts ok alexander if i can go to you this is what it's all about and i'm going to be talking to my guest in london right now alexander this is

what it's all about here. why why can't these p. if this is such a broad movement why can't people there say we don't like this government we're going to punish you in the next election cycle and throw the bums out why not that because a government with the government is not going to see eight what's the go sheet and they say return with ultimatums go ahead well indeed so i think this is an important point there is the election the presidential election is a year away now what the parliamentary opposite what the opposition ought to be doing logically is they should be agreeing on a single candidate to put up against mr yanukovych which in that election now there are lots of things you can criticize mr yanukovych for his economic policies were not very successful he made a complete hand of the association agreement negotiations whether he should have signed it or not is another matter but the way in which he pulled out of it was disastrous. the trouble is and this is what i think is happening here is that

a lot of the scenes we're seeing in kiev today. are happening because the opas issue needs self is very fragmented into value and cannot agree on a proper political and electoral strategy and because they cannot agree on these things they are at and cannot control some of their own supporters and are egging some of some of their others we are seeing a certain drift towards violence now the only thing people like and who are obviously sympathetic to the opposition should be pointing this out to they should say look what you have got to do all right gentlemen i'm sorry we're going to have to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the events unfolding in ukraine stay with hardly. believe the police will.

come in the future. is here so we hit the road to focus on new technology. on this month show no party is complete without school students. and we learn about the next until super evolution designs the potential to save lives. not only are they. we've got the future covered. think. we're going to go digital the price is the only industry specifically mentioned in the constitution and. that's because a free and open press is critical to our democracy albus. role. in

fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and our craft semi-colons we've been hijacked lie a handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers one still just my job market and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem trying to fix rational debate and a real discussion of critical issues facing up to five different job ready to join the movement then walk a bit of. drama

as the truth be ignored. stories others refuse to notice. the faces change the world writes never. filled picture of today's you know on demand from around the globe. drop to. the. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the events playing out in ukraine.

anders i'd like to go back to you in washington we've seen plenty of pictures coming out of care over the last few days there's a lot of use of violence and i would say on all sides what do you think about the people in the opposition and it's been said earlier in the program that you're more sympathetic to them i mean why are they using force are you sympathetic to that well. the main opposition leaders have all told their. supporters very strongly and not to use force we do not know exactly who the people who are using force are we do know. it is have used a massive number of so-called. provocateurs i would like to focus on the. democratic credentials in fact was brought up it's true president journal

called which was elected. with a slight majority three and a half percent people ran off in february two thousand and ten but it got to spend fifty percent of the vote but he stole the parliamentary elections in october two thousand and ten and even so his party only got thirty percent of. the i don't i don't understand i don't understand why you're bringing this up i don't understand why you bring this up because you know. that in november of last year in november of last year brussels was courting mr eunuch overage ok and they wanted him there and they want to talk to him then but now they don't want to do that so don't you find that kind of an odd situation that he was legitimate when he was going to sign that agreement and he's illegitimate now because he didn't sign the agreement go ahead he was illegitimate because he was

elected president of ukraine and he still have a parliamentary elections. that have a variance to what is and how did the advance in kiev today come on over the last few days hala certain people said we don't like the parliamentary elections we mark tell me something about these groups that are very very good at all this and here and you know. who are they. ok the b.b.c. and the nation magazine in the united states both solidly democratic left magazines have both done pieces on exactly who these ultra nationalist rioters are who have been intimately involved in the violence in the ukraine from the beginning to the catastrophic escalation we have seen today they are a loose coalition of ultra nationalist groups known now as the right sector they

include openly anti-semitic and arean groups such as white hammer the patriots of the ukraine una a u.n.'s so and the trident group these are openly groups that on the main field of the mind on have as the nation has reported been attacking leftist feminist gay rights and labor activists and driving them off of them i don and a great deal of the violence perpetrated against the protesters maybe by them now no one seriously suggests that these all true nationalist racist groups or. somehow paid agents of the government. and it is quite obvious that even the mainstream opposition leaders. klitschko yet so new york and the openly neo nazi leader of swoboda china bach have completely lost control of the of the

crowds both of the naturalists and of the regular if we were to call them peaceful protesters who have openly backed the the rioters are chanting death to the enemies. during their main meetings and have. facilitated the violence by providing logistics and basically operating in classic. insurgency style as a community with which the rioters can retreat back into and escape responses for their violence from the police alexander but at the same time we have capitals in europe and then we have the united states condemning unocal which where they don't seem to like to mention any of the groups that mark just mentioned well this is this is exactly. the situation go ahead alexander go ahead.

yes they would think i wouldn't there they are supporting in kiev exactly what they would not tolerate in any way if it was happening in their own capitals or their own cities i mean and rightly so i should say i mean one should not. violence disorder in one's own cities and i have to say i find this constant theme about revoking police provocateurs being responsible for this violence really very very extraordinary and i have also been reading some of the things that people like misty you can mystically have been searching and frankly their whole open incitements to violence misty had sent you a few days ago it was actually saying that because the government won't concede every demand that the opposition makes people are entitled to turn to violence which is quite straightforwardly a call to violence mystically which go to yesterday all right it was it this

morning went around and actually told the people that the street where all the demonstrations all the violence has been happening to the truth each other did you know observe a truce so there's no question at all that the opposition are involved in this violence and to deny that they are it is absurd and if i may say so it's not helpful in the long run to the opposition themselves what they need to do is to start acting in a political work two months ago mr klitschko looked as if he was likely to win the presidential election in two thousand and fifteen with every day that passes though that prospect is slipping away and again part of the problem is that the opposition themselves are so extraordinarily divided amongst each other that the reason they lost the parliamentary elections which continually talks about is not

because they were rigged it's because they all stood against each other and failed to unite against the government and. things go to how i was going to let me go into italy. been anders in washington jump in please. yeah if people. simply say things that are not true one after the other but the fundamental problem here is very young and has introduced a pretty authoritarian rule here is part of main. opposition leader. in christian on purely political grounds and he has made an amendment to the tax code directive just signed into law in november so there. cleats court can be deprived of his stride to stand in the next presidential election same people five people as we know so far have been killed by have all

been obviously killed by the security. forces so the violence comes overwhelmingly from. lives or if this is the kind of regime that you believe that unocal which is is creating in ukraine why in the last thirty six hours has brussels said but if you want to sign the agreement with this we're still open to working with you president unocal which if you signed the agreement how do you square the two it's very easy because of the european union demands that ukraine ben adopt. practical use they demand ok mark why do you go to europe we know that that's right the e.u. always demands everybody to do things ok that's why ukraine didn't sign the agreement well let's go on to go back to the origins here for us tomorrow go back to the origins. to the origins well i think some of the origins

to a what is going on must be attributed to the in what is a been a flagrant violation of the ukraine's sovereignty this parade of european and united states parliamentarians senators who have been openly. standing side by side with the neo nazi leader oleg china bach on the stage of the my don while revolution against this democratically elected government that the e.u. was perfectly willing to do business with calling for revolution against it and holding meetings with them in occupied government buildings that have been stormed by these rioters and the results for the ukrainian people are quite obvious because in the most recent research in branding polling ever as a respected independent polling group cited by both the opposition and the government in december at the end of december once this has already been going on for more than a month fifty percent of the ukrainian people have taken a stance against the protesters on the so-called euro my don while forty five

percent of them support them forty seven percent of the ukrainian people think that the the economic deals that president you had a covert signed with president putin of russia will be beneficial for the ukraine well only twenty seven percent of the ukrainian population feels they will be negative as for the euro might done forty three percent of the ukrainian population feels that it will have negative results while only thirty one percent feel that it will have positive results for the ukraine and yet a coach's poll numbers have recently jumped from twenty percent up to twenty nine point eight percent in a potential electoral match up mark mark we're almost running out of time here alexander i'd like to go to you how would you assess the european union's approach to ukraine over the last year. utterly dreadful what they have done is that they tried to force an association agreement on the ukraine which was economically

disastrous they france sectional problems between the various parts of the ukraine they've created more problems between themselves and russia which was completely unnecessary and now as we see there colluding effectively that's the only way one describe it with people on the streets in the ukraine who have turned to revile and and let's be absolutely clear for pub this this is not good for the future of the ukraine it is creating immense polaroids ation there where whereas what the ukraine needs is some degree of consolidation now the way to do that. i wish we had more time but we've run out of time many thanks to my guests in london moscow and in washington and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember prosperous. leave the euro. zone.

as a new physician i swear to abide by the hippocratic oath. to the best of my ability and judgment. i will prescribe for the good of my patients. i will not give deadly doses to anybody. or advise of those to do so. i will never do harm to the. doctors of the doc's.

right to see. her straight. and i think the church. on a reporter's. instrument. could be in the. majority. we plead b. to say the majority of people makes a clear choice. they joined. the only thing we may expect is that the ukrainians and so. these government and opposition claimed necessary understanding and especially

necessary. to define. ok. how do you operate but i'm going to impose good sports such. as i'm not an olympic hockey mom watch a. slam dunk played. by fire.

in the final. and the rest. of the. wealthy british. free. market. find out what's really happening to the global

economy because the reports. go up again. despite opposition leader calls to maintain a truce amid the spreading west across the country. if there is. there will be no mercy for anyone neither women nor children. leading the country. the peace talks in geneva between the syrian government and the opposition now entering a crucial stage as both sides begin. negotiations the start of the uprising of twenty.