do is so important it's one of the most difficult things for our mission it's not the technology it's not the money it's finding the first crew that can do this how could the you make sure that those people who commit to this denture you know through all of these training process will not for granted that decision later on anyone who applies for the marshall mission is selected to come into our a short course they can always regret the group read the decision and step out and that's why we will select multiple crucial four people and train all of them as if they were the first crew to go and only if a year or so before the actual departure will we decide which crews are ready and only the crew will only know if they fly the moment they are invited to step into the rockets and we're very confident that there are groups as will drop out and we're also very confident that there are groups that will finish the program and this will have a group that's qualified to go to mars but i'm asking about people who may change that decision once they're on board the space shift or once they have even reached

the surface of mars what if they regret it later on and you have provided absolutely in the whole possibility of returning you may be actually playing on human lives because you know we all have to have some possibility of you know changing our mind and yet you deny those people the possibility no these people deny themselves that possibility it's it's people volunteer for this mission we will we will hire them and we will pay them for what they do but there are still people who have who have to make that decision for themselves and. sometimes you make decisions in life that you cannot that you cannot turn back if you just became a father if you decide to become a parent that's also a decision that you cannot regrets i mean sometimes my son keeps me up at night but you come to regret that the shish him because it's there if you made it for the rest of your life well some people. man band and kids it's true and some but some

the sessions are really final and this is one of those decisions that these people make and. there are many risks to these missions mission there are technical risks there are health risks and one of the risks is the psychological risk of regretting that you weren't but it's a risk that the people that go will have to wait and they will have to decide do i want to take that risk or not now you mention that this is a this will be a major scientific experiment a manger a technological experiment but to me this is also a major psychological experience experiment rather because we have never really tried anything like that and no matter how extensive it is the training that you mentioned you can never prepare yourself for living in isolation on another planet and i know that the major part of your pitch is to inspire people around the world to show them the best of. humanity is specious but what if things

go wrong and what if the those people rather than behaving in the best possible way that visits what if they start behaving like spiders in a can that may actually show the very worst of human nature here afraid of that now i think of these questions come from someone who would never apply for this mission are you not true why would you apply i would apply i am very fascinated by the idea but i think you know what we've seen from psychology and there have been the number of psychological experiments that the famous stanford prison study for example one people were confined to one place and it was expected to go for several months they have to. cut it i think into the second week because simply the human psyche the human nature is so unpredictable so you can never bet on that well you can bet on that but what you can do is to. people and test them for prolonged

time shoulder crews that we before they go to mars they will have spent months and months in isolation with just their team of four to prepare for this mission so day will know each other very well and they will know if they want to do that together and people who want to go on this mission they don't understand that there are people who even who even think that this is a concern and don't underestimate how tough humans are if you there is also be an experiment or experiments actual real life situations like shackleton who were stranded in the in the ice of the pole and were stranded there for a very long time and the crew actually. be camping there together waiting for their return to it but that's the key element here waiting for the return home because they will be home this will be their new home our sister new home of these people many people migrate to other places and they stay there for the rest of their lives and especially before airplanes were common like there are no people when they

migrate that they basically expect that never to return to their homeland to get them there is a new movie out there in the theaters playing now called gravity i'm not sure if you had a chance to i haven't seen as you watch it but essentially it's a movie about. you know how austin outs who were all excited about exploring the universe what kind of magic is there one of them to get to get to earth and that's movie that movie is really about. how why's it so awful to be in space all alone and why dying in space so much worse than dying on earth and i think what it tells us. is the same as you know the main lesson from the history of civilization of each is regardless of our exploration. the most happiness is direct derived from human connection from you know being with people that's

ultimately what humans are all about and it seems to me that by offering those volunteers a chance to go to mars which is very exciting you are offering them a choice of. the you know who was this very intelligent scholar but who sold his soul for you know the ultimate knowledge but that was a tragedy after all so aren't you underestimating the human nature and i think that you are underestimating the sense of exploration that the people who apply for our mission have a my my lessons from the history of civilization our debt stand still is declining if you don't keep exploring if you don't keep pushing your then you do move into decline if this happens in many civilizations and. i think that's so you know it's as world which is a global world now where everything is connected i think we need this project to

move forward to not move into decline now in addition to being a psychological challenge i think there's also a number of technological and scientific hurdles and i know that many advocates of the mission to mars including yourself claimed that you know the martian atmosphere could produce oxygen it could produce water possibly it could even produce rocket propellant for the surface travels and some suggested that it could also produce fuel for the return journey but i wonder if making such assumptions aren't too presumptuous because i know that curiosity rover has found water on the surface of mars but it hasn't found methane which many scientists believe was there so. and she making too many sumption is about the future of that colony there are still a lot of there's still a lot. unknowns it's important when you go from our suit to used to things that aren't there and marks want to chosen to use only the essential things and these

are water which is present in the in the surface of mars not only curiosity rover has found it but almost all mars missions have demonstrated that that there is water on mars and nitrogen which is in the atmosphere of mars which we need for a brief while atmosphere we don't we don't have plans currently to produce for instance methane on mars for per for propellant all we want to do is oxygen and and water and nitrogen and the these are processes that are very well understood but of course we will we will demonstrate them before humans go so on our first amendment and we will demonstrate what their production on the surface of mars and their missions that are there be just before to humans we will demonstrate nitrogen and oxygen production and there will be a brief will atmosphere and many leaders of water waiting for humans before to even leave earth so we'll make this we will make sure that these components are there

and that we can secure them mr allen star we have to take a short break now but when we come back to the question of whether there is life on mars has backed humanity for decades if not centuries but why does it even matter when we humans have proven to be so ignorant and so our careless of the live here here on earth well that's coming up in a few moments here on well to part. her . look it was terrible they come up very hard to take a plunge again a little longer here to the club log cabin that has sex with the perfect hair plugs let's play a. little

just a little just a. little please. please. look at the people. here are you ok. how do you operate dylan but i'm going to the most critical played sports and such expert status. as rosales i'm not an olympic hockey player bomb much it is on the line don't believe. my slur.

welcome back to worlds apart we are discussing exploration on earth and beyond with a cult following of the morris one mission bass. mr lansdorp just before the break we were talking about. psychological and technological hurdles associated with this mission and your project has a very tight timeline you want to see the first crew landing on mars in two thousand and twenty three and you claim that all that knowledge of what that is available and i wonder if it's really the case why do you think nobody else has attempted to do that because we have you know some nations china for example who really want to assert themselves as space powers they they have access to all the technology modern technology into walled they have a lot of money they also have remarkably resilient psychologically resilient people

so why do you think nobody else has tried it before will you. experience in landing on mars is actually only available in the u.s. that's why we're talking to u.s. suppliers about the technology to learn systems on mars and china has not developed that technology yet they not always develop technology they sometimes borrow it and they borrow. a lot of american technology independent of the technology to lentil marsh's it's not just something that you can easily copy paste it's really building experience huge test programs that you have to do the test program was one of the most extensive extensive space test programs ever because there are so many things that you have to do right if you want to send things to martian many of our missions have filled in history because of the complexity of getting things to mars and i. think for other nations to china important aspect is to they want to

organize return missions and for return missions to technology is simply not possible yes do you think this issue of the return mission is a political issue after all i mean the or can it become a political issue even if you raise enough money for your project if you even if you have volunteers who are ready to go do you think you will be allowed to do so given that. again the you leave those humans you know return ticket yeah so far we've not encountered. resistance on that from the organizations that the would be able to do that but these are these are of course discussions that we will continue to to have and i really believe that as our progresses people will get used to the idea of permanent settlement now as far as i understand here entire business model rests on the presumption that once the first

group blasts off people around the world will be glued to the t.v. screens and that will produce a lot of advertising revenues and that in itself may finance future missions and sending more crews to mars but. i heard that you're comparing it to people watching nail armstrong for example but i i wonder if you understand that the media environment and people's watching habits have. changed significantly and in the current news environment there's hardly any news event that can keep people interested for a week. let alone months or years don't you think that your overestimating the. sustainability of interest that people may have in this project or media revenues are one of the source of revenue so that we will be tapping into but not certainly not the only one media. and the. de mint has changed but was that what has not

changed is the value of unique content or actually what has increased dramatically in the last years is to value if you need content if you look at the revenue numbers from broadcasting nights for the olympic games from the world soccer cup these kinds of unique events have dramatically risen in value in the last couple of years but even saw i mean those events like world cup or are limpid games they have a well established edition of earning that money and people are sort of conditioned to turning up to t.v. screens to watch something like that your mission is a totally new project saw what it gives you insurance that people you know i mean they may have watches for a couple of days but what. keeps you motivated or what makes you believe that they will continue turning in over a sustained period of time. first of all all the meetings that i've had with media companies with people who are producing t.v.

shows that are currently that are currently on t.v. and they have said this is to great a story of old times and people will watch it for decades so that's one and the other is stats where ever i go whoever i talk to everybody is interested in how they put money on that i mean how they contributed to your campaign because if they're if media companies are so interested i wonder why dear oh dear only have less than two hundred thousand dollars in donations and in the should have had all the knowledge by now then now the media companies are not going to donate they're going through invest and that's a whole different source of revenue. but no media we are in discussion with with a number of very large media companies the big studios that they're interested in participating in our plan now in addition to marse one there is a growing number of areas. martian missions and some governments and bring them

merican government haven't fully abandoned plans to go to mars seven though it seems that everything american president keeps pushing the deadline by another decade if. marse one is not meant to be for some reasons which mission what way do you think is the best way to get to mars and do you do believe that it could be done in your lifetime. absolutely i think that's i'm very confident that humans will walk a march in my lifetime and i think that's it will come from a private organization there will be a private entity that will organize it because the term is too long for governments to oversee it take if it takes more than a of the two presidential campaigns in the us or the two presidential campaigns for instance here and there in russia then it's very difficult for the four political parties to oversee such big projects now you also mentioned earlier that we humans

already have the technology necessary to go to mars but we also have the technology to eradicate hunger on this planet we have the technology to prevent all sorts of infectious diseases we have the technology to very. events technological catastrophes but for some reason. it hasn't been done they have failed and i think collectively we are very arrogant as humans we have very arrogant as about life on this planet and. people are sometimes very. well very cold to even. fellow humans being killed in very large numbers so. why do you think we need to sit for life on other planets when the be treated as such disregard on this one well one of the things i think that the human mission to mars will accomplish is to make humans here on earth more sensible about life

about life on this planet about the planet itself about the environment so one of the one of the key benefits of a human mission to mars will be a better earth. but. you know the reason i am asking this question because it's precisely because of that you claim very noble cause us you believe that it will make us better but you know our history as a species hasn't been that the great i wonder if it wouldn't be more ethical to keep our acts exploratory urges the day for the purpose of doing no harm to other planets given how much harm do you have already done here so what makes us qualify to go there if you if you want to survive as a species then you need to you need to keep moving forwards as i said before a standstill is declined if you don't if you don't move. then someone is going to eat you ok going back to the volunteer selection process you have more than two

hundred thousand applications so far and if i'm not mistaken twenty four percent of those com from the united states about ten percent from india six percent from china and four percent from russia as well as many other countries and i know that you want to make the selection process as democratic and representable representative as possible but i think you only need to look at the united nations to see how difficult such decision making can be i wonder if you can avoid politics in something like that because you know if you want to make a democratic choice out of it you are destined to encounter it. politics is everywhere but as we will try to avoid it as much as possible and one of the rules we have for each crew is that each crew there will be four people two men and two women from four different continents so that's already makes it really a mission for all of mankind well almost all of mankind there's only four people in

each crew unfortunately. but it's it will ensure that there that there are people from different continents and each crew and. that there will always be politics but there will also be making sure that the politics is reduced as much as possible i just wonder. since you want to. make it into mixed gender crew what if you know that crew produces children whole and have never made decision to be on mars i mean what about down because it's an ethical dilemma in any country of whether you want to keep children in prisons for example of the damned mothers but what about you know children who may be born on mars what if they want to go to earth and will be denied to them even before they're born well first of all when for humans go through march march is going to be a very dangerous place to live and the prospective parents has to. fink for him

self is just a right place and and time for me to have children and the responsible people that we will send to mars will certainly decide that this is out there and see that i mean it's you know the power of human instinct. will still be there regardless of you know how is the selection and training services through because we of course we will send to medical needs to be to have a baby will have to be to the earth but as a parent you always have to think about is this the right time and place and that's certainly not the right time and place now as far as i know nasa badges for this year is around sixteen billion dollars it's almost three times what you need i wonder if you have given any thought to an idea of collaborating with the governments various governments because obviously they not only have the money but they also have substantial expertise who are very interested in cooperating with

all the space agencies and we are talking to to a number of them were we're not interested in accepting their money because of the point that you just made about politics. as soon as you start accepting money from a country which is basically what the space agency is dead politics does be coming forth and then they will set them on so we will cooperate with them on technology on science and many other figs but not on finance financial crisis is indeed global i wonder what do you say to people who say that you know it's a great idea it's very inspirational idea but maybe it's not the right time to implement it just now but i think the openness of this through i think that's in a time like this and inspiring project is exactly what we need we need to generate a lot of money to get this done so that means that there will be a lot of jobs that will be created because of our project now and finally on the issue of plausibility of this mission because you seem to be very often mistake but

there are a lot of skeptics. regarding this particular idea and i think it was via wired magazine that they gave your project a plausibility score off to town now i wonder if you have given yourself any deadline on maybe a funding trash hole beyond which you will be ready to concede that you know it was you know a great idea but probably it's not meant to be well i think that's anyone who looks at our advisory boards and our boards are from best theirs with a nobel prize laureates with scientists from within astronauts. they can see that there are certainly people with the right back ronstadt support was we do we have an announcement coming up next week with a look at martin a major u.s. aerospace company that has been involved in all the marsh missions did not and that's all mar so far so i think that the journalists from wired's might have to do

is homework again well i guess only time will tell but from their home out of it thank you very much for your thoughts and if you like the show please join us again same. place same time here on a. gentleman

i guess you all know ladies. good to see you even got in a few hundred a day come across it honestly i'm going to miss the faces i'm going to soak it all for the purpose of this if we've got people coming in with criminals we got people from it who knows where in the world this is the united states i'm very tough by the way you know the sure but i was worried that they may not know why they live on mars you know mars. so we pick up things like rand ob turbans

prayer rugs so when we know they do they're coming from the middle east say concentration camp. concentration camps. we've got it as if the white house is not even want to disclose the fact that he is a stranger. to get a lot of housing for only people but the government is not funding it and in a lot of the sheltered in. maybe having people stay on the street because people begin. to get involved right now ironically ironically i'm worth more to the city of new york good. person. when you've paid regular people like someone like a lawyer or doctor or some other madison avenue it's boring and sometimes the homeless people who get into. the by. the say country rather than the state

restraints were. in this city. region city in the world what people. pay money for do you think. anybody can make you feel good you know good. new york london. the whole world is. a father one down the end. of the corner that building at the end of the street another one a more transparent society gets the money or the proper tears become we see military and state and police forces mobilized against people who blend into the city the city the more people trust electronic devices the more defenseless they are the fear that has

a thousand on. our our key. is obviously more for the latest because it's a. women wanted to avoid rate they really needed to buy gas and. this is the one that i'm aware of once again it's the fear factor. when the. target of the gun lobby and you don't kill them when the killing money. if somebody with you would this with her. i'm noticing more and more is this really scary marketing tactics which implies that women have some sort of moral obligation to protect their family young girls shoot out here too so we do have a pink or. kids young kids choke on food than are killed by firearms if being armed made us safer in america we should be the safest nation on earth were clearly not the safest.

and live feeds ukraine's opposition russia has refused to vacate seized buildings a precondition for. the crisis that's gripping the country. is the first foreign channel to reach the syrian town of andhra where an early morning attack by islamist radicals left thousands displaced in claims of dozens dead. also this hour the british prime minister says the arab spring is good for long term security although the u.k. citizens returning from fighting in syria pose a considerable threat. he's home this season. in the streets of berlin helping those in the dumps to get back on their feet.