on larry king he build a music making empire out of a tiny town named muscle shoals alabama it's legendary record to reduce or recall we did the first hit record on aretha franklin we did the first hit record on energy names first hit record on otis redding there is a muslim show sound is heavy on the vase heavy on the cake dump and it's got a lot of lot of balls plus the music today as far as i'm concerned in ten years from now we'll have known won't be easy on the something changes all next on larry king now. welcome to larry king our special guest recall one of the most prolific record

producers music publishers songwriters and musicians of the past century this man built of music making empire out of his legendary fame studios in the tiny town muscle shoals alabama his resume includes work with some of the industry's biggest artists and acts like a wreath of franklin wilson pickett the osmonds tom jones the allman brothers and paul i guess that's just to name a few ricks one of a kind stores the subject bill a major documentary appropriately titled muscle shoals he's also author of a book called hell bent off for fame he received the highest honor you can get a lifetime achievement award at the twenty fourteen grammys congratulations thank you sir thank you very much let's go back a little fuel beginnings how did the how did you come to the music business well my mother and father divorced when i was very small five years old or. so i begin to.

way and around the community and so forth and so we had we had a bunch of pickers and muscle shows that i became acquainted with and songwriters billy cheryl who later became. the head of in our at c.b.s. records in the nashville what took you out of being a musician to being a producer why did you want to produce the question well i want to make more money . so i wanted to. produce records and i felt like being a musician and songwriter and a publisher and all the other things i was qualified and so i wanted to be i wanted to pursue the producing thing where you had a tough childhood right you know he has already lost the younger brother in a burning accident as first wife in a car wreck rather in a tractor track crash a job become all music spent a lot of time playing music and writing songs and reminiscing about the past in

a soul thing what to get a muscle shoals alabama i was not welcome in nashville tennessee and i had no friends in new york city model was jerry wexler ahmet ertegun. and clive davis knows gas i want to be big and i want to be i want to be in a pop music business and so nashville is country and so i can i can get in i can break in so i muscle shoals so. i came to most of shows and opens a studio start built my own studio was my own engineer and started working with sly and sanger's and songwriters and and produced a couple hit records in the one record was was there or is there a muscle shoals sound there is a muscle so silent. it's hard to describe but i will tell you this it's it's it's

heavy on the bass heavy on the cape rumble and it's got a lot of. it's about the kind of music what was your big break as a producer you better move on by a black artist by the name of arthur alexander and that in early ninety six sixty five sixty six and their own the the the song was recorded and covered in england. a group called the rolling stones oh and that was the and that was one of their first big hit records number one record for them did you have a problem in the south alabama especially working with black artists no i had no problem whatsoever with working with black artists i had problems with people that are i able by people around the rock artists surrounding surrounding those people and managing them and so forth. no i had no i had no problems

whatsoever even though george wallace was standing in the schoolhouse there were at university of alabama saying no blacks here. we had no problems we were colorblind and didn't didn't we wasn't concerned about the current. governor wallace a few times how did the other the muscle shoals and its music affect the civil rights movement you think it had an effect i thought it was their positive effect larry we did the first hit record on reserve rightly did first hit record on added james with the first hit record on otis redding you go studio was kind of a. save zone right for black and white artists to work together together in a segregated city yes very much so. with khloe klux klan all around us in and that kind of thing but but this was the sixty's and things were tough and. but but

i love the black people and love the black music in the loved southern so black music. such as a wreath of etta james wilson pickett mustang sound he's all those all those little hit records that you're familiar with i'm sure and a lot of people in the city get angry at you oh they they knew they knew very little about us because we kept the doors closed we kind of kept a hush hush than allow the press to come around and interview people and thanks like that so we didn't we didn't have any real hostility but we had a lot of questions you know those guys as long has hippies over there they must be selling dope or something because you know that's that's that's how you make a living and most of those you know it's not music business how did you get the music out of muscle shoals i mean you were producing it you didn't have your own label did you know not at first later on i had a label with capitol records through carl

a woman and so you know that's still to know him pretty well you know him quite well he said you know i've got this great little studio down and muscle shells in these cats and these cats are really greedy you're gonna love it. she woke seeing her with her. and she's got this all rounder sort of thing i mean the girls will. remember watching the guy be in good southern borders and they'd carry on with anything except looking or living with her. so she will run over to the piano. she said there a moment. and then she just hit just on loan chord i would say. anybody out so they were about. we did what we called had sessions at that

time and there was no real need zinc written for it the musicians would just listen to what it was i was doing and then they would decide what they were going to do a round that that's from an incredible documentary muscle shoals you should see is to play in play it is it's a tremendous you did a great job of any case i salute you very much for. a review i told you i'm told her first trip to was a live shows didn't go right in go quite as well as we hoped it would happen well she and her husband got tanked up a little bit and he started in manning the jay works are far the horn player and then for a trumpet player and then. this other guy and so. our children to be the one to do the farm is so as to what are these people doing you know intimidates you and he said well there they're making passes at my wife so i

said jerry if the session was over as it were i had a few drinks to settle a nurse and i want to ask that i'm going to the studio over to the hotel and i want to clear this all up and jason please don't report don't go you know because i don't want trouble and i said well i'm not going making trouble i'm just going to have a few drinks and we'll go over there and be but isn't you know with pennies on the back and everything will be beautiful tomorrow and so on over there and got into a fist fight with her husband i was told by webster that i would he would never darken my doors again he would never come back to most of shows they came to new york went to new york and finished the album without me and of course i was an engineer and co-producer with her on her stuff was with wexler. and it was it was

a tough if tough gig. how do you think you work so well with black artists well i'm one of them. we'll go out after the field back more on bill clinton years like that you have i've felt black. my wife can tell you i can tell you that. was a million when black people around me they they feel very good about me what was special about aretha she could hit those high notes like nobody could and she had a very good sense of rhythm what makes a good producer a good producer a guy who knows a hit song when he hears it and a guy who knows how to get the best out of musicians and the recording studio is it teachable i don't think it's very tasteful because it takes a tough guy and you have to be able to take a lot of b.s. well names are martyrs you tell me what it was like to work with them every james

wonderful i thought she's a sweetheart and they're just brought it to most of shows to meet me and she came down with her for. a long fur coat on in our proposals and she got off and it's this is july and august is hot summertime and she came into the studio and. she had a she had a ferocious temper and she told me she said i'm going to do this them sound one more time and i'm not going to want to hear again that's a there this is as a hits a hit song it is if the hits a big hit song for you and it'll bring you back to promise and she's a lot only here because i'm sick of this song i hate the song now as they did and i don't know why you're making me do this song. but she she did the song it was

a big hit for resume it was called tell mama oh ok wilson pickett wilson pickett we did i had so many great hits with him good guy mean mean dad but the not to me he was a we were we're big buddies the stones the stones were rockin bunch of gas they had a big time and then they came in the studio if you got a song out of them in three days you were doing that i like makes a lot oh yeah he's a great guy the dixie chicks dixie chicks they were little tough little tough they're now this way the osman's oh boy they're with they are there every every producers dream is to cause the oz ones because the gentleman's the gentleman gentle people hardworking people very reserved and easy to work with easy to work with i mean love eleven guys oh my buddy paul anka paul is tough he's

a fractious yeah he was affectionate he was a perfectionist and he wanted things his way. they were his way or the highway or my way as he. makes that rock stars unknown for big egos right yes you have trouble dealing with that now because because i had a bigger one myself larry. did you ever in all those years have a favorite artist i have a lot of favorite artists and i am a mascot question is a tough one but wilson pickett was one of my favorite artists of all time a wreath of course was. even paul asked him he was he was my kind of guy he was from new york and he grew up hard and tough but documentaries muscle shoals the book is hell bent for fame in the big big grammy awards of two thousand and fourteen he won a lifetime achievement award you can't do better than that when we were turning red

bull give his opinion on the current state of the music industry don't go away. i marinate join me. for that impartial and financial reporting commentary concert and much much. only on bass and. i got a quote for you. it's pretty tough to. say where it's about story eight let's get this guy like you would smear that guy stead of working for the people both missions in the mainstream media are working for each other briberies digital . photos. of the dead rather.

than your cultural moment like. the face i dislike people. pleasure to have you with us here on t.v. today i roll researcher. recalling one be a lifetime achievement grammy was subject to the documentary muscle shoals what was it like when they told you getting a move when i got i don't want to personalize it when the emmys called me and told me i'm getting a lifetime achievement was like wow what was it like for you when they told you and

they'll call me and said rick this is not a regular grammy this is for a lifetime achievement award and i said and he said where you got to say that as it well they all out there you what i've got say hallelujah and compare the music industry today to forty years ago biggest difference well the music today as far as i'm concerned in ten years from now we'll have known more music unless something changes when you mean it's. as having a hard time. the studios are going to one man shows every man owns a computer every man as a pro tour in his basement and he plays all the parts and does music so it is not like in the old days when we did it we had fifteen people in the studio at one time and we did it all together as a team and you came up with a good lick and i said hey let's build a leslie clara's got

a lick that's all good for that thing in and work around his thing and now one guy is like the old days one guy did all the range an en route run all the parts and had him to hand them out to the musicians. and it didn't it didn't work so there's no great producers now that's not great record producers and computers have just about run the business for these people because you can't get paid and you don't have the personal relationship with each other you can't you have no reason to go and find an artist because no money there and so they let you the guys who like myself who can afford to produce records have all the cream and nobody asking it in the gene no when you were producing something would be a hit with you good at predicting i was great at predicting have at i'll tell you a story. what's a call me one time and he said to me i said to him he said well i'm having

a party at my house rick and i hope this is important because i don't have time for that moment ambush and so i said well it's only if i found a hit record to call you and send it to you and i've found a number on record jerry is it really that's as big rick you know so he sent a sense that said to me so i sent it to him and he called me back and said i don't like it things here as it jurong jerry because it's the number one record worldwide and he said and that's pretty big i mean that is really big you know are you sure and i said i'm positive that my last phone now number two number in the three the number one number on record and he he said well if you feel that song about i want to make a deal with the artist or sledge and we will put it out it was number one and has been normal on far for years but i think it's

a classic and it almost won a man loves a woman the person sage or so so you knew that right away i knew that right away given to a song you thought would be a hit and it didn't. a lot of a lot of i mean on telly a clean name a law that i thought were hits and they weren't hits and when it's not a hit are you able from that or can you analyze it yeah even it can analyze it and i think i can analyze it because i think first of all a record has to have a dance beat a to have to be secondly has to have a great lyric and you have to have an artist who. is a perfect marriage far the song and courses it all starts with the song great song if you've got a great song like my way or whatever but when they miss you are you able to look

back and say well here's why that miss maybe it wasn't promoted right maybe the company didn't get behind her if you loved it to begin with right yes out it sort of to have those ingredients yes it had at least part of those ingredients but of course that was always my cop out was you know the label didn't promote it. when and when in trouble they are in the way out for i blame the label is there any music form you don't like know music for why are costs for so of the robber is good you like rap i like rap if countries good you like kind of country yes i like blues our legs as i like it all are and i love every part of it not everything about all of it but but i'm i'm a big believer in music i think is i think it keeps the world going on strong what about the record industry today and trouble a lot of trouble

a lot of trouble they are just barely hanging in there and they they've they've let a lot of people go they've tried to. they've they've joined forces in this level both that level and the big fish eat up the little fish and so forth until there's no. there's no there's nobody in the music that is that after i know right now that was a wexler or are are a cloud of day this are that kind of a a more you were tired no i'm sorry still going i'm waiting for another elvis come on but special about muscle shoals as a place to live while you live there it's a small town with say it's a small town with big music jimi presently yes i met him one time in las vegas would you like to record him oh i love the recording is forty miles down the

road from most assemble all right people in mississippi what's an upcoming artist we should keep an eye on well there's a couple or three that i'm infatuated with well there's the do it i think it's it's the best we've got down there now in there cause of wars the so wars are going to be annoyed that yes you are they've already want a couple of grammys you're going to move to new york i love new york love the people in new york they grew up with them and they'll tell you how to get to a place own tell you why yes plexi used to say to me larry used to say rick when i call you up you need to have a list made of the things that you want and i'll say yes or no and we're going through the. five minutes we'll be done and you know companies a lot but he said don't give me that book about mom and they'll be. looking back

live at the where you came from poverty and tragedy in your family and you pinch yourself i mean are you surprised that all is not really a i'm of firm believer and i'm. i tell people that kick ass and take names and well i'm a survivor i've never doubted my. abilities i've always believed in myself and i believe that i was smarter than the next musician songwriter producer engineer the whole thing so we were tough guy to deal with tough. i was a tough business man hours. car can tell you that i was very tough. and i had some tough attorneys and they were all from new york clive davis is very big with the grammys and everything is big party which we attend every year we see how important was he in the music business nobody better gerry works oak came very

close but the company wasn't quite as big as the eighty five special it's been a guest stay with us clive was. or is still going yeah here is he still going i mean still a great guy he knows a great song when he hears it you know the hit record when he hears it he listens to people like recall any listens to larry king and he listens to everybody and says what you think of the song or you don't like it i don't like it you know he's very in a way it's not a close minded it was no no no healing introduce harry connick jr yes or in a minute he's that kind of guy and and i went to his office one time and said with all of these executives that i think is on tuesday morning we were having a big visit meeting and and he said to me this is recall his the great producer bob barr from muscle shoals alabama and and. i want him to sit in with me and he set

me back and his chair beside him and he said i want him to this into the music with me if he hears here i want to tell me and we played the song and i said this to him as a number one record promoted. he said rick just told me this is a number one record gans and it better be. you know what it was. it was one of those one of those teenage girl things clean you hear me you know and you can you can you see me you know isn't the horror of opera sometimes artists aren't the best judge of their own no they're not of us the senate worth of i guess is the bill that johnny cash was very good to me and i interviewed him many times johnny cash hated i walk go on he listened to it didn't like it he's driving in the car he hears it on the radio couldn't stand it close up sam whatever his name was

at that record company this is i can send us as simple as that says it's the number one song in the country and he thought it missed a beat though carrie so you never know now and never know how you would have known that one right i know now and i would have known alan well not only that but sam phillips is from muscle shoals alabama is he and he came up with roy orbison he came up with johnny cash he came up with elvis presley came up with carl perkins all those big rock n roll acts and jerry lee lewis. holo shaken all that stuff or you guys had this special knowledge about music of music of knowing what you hear right you can you hear something i don't hear right and and you can't teach that no you can't teach that i think it's a god given talent that we some of us have and some of us don't have but i think

it's i think it's you're right this very very unique in the music business because we only have maybe a half dozen and in america are in the world maybe a dozen. that can do that because the good artist were on their producer heavily their head. congratulations on the lifetime achievement graduations on the coming book graduations on muscle shoals thank you sir thanks to my very special guest the legendary recall i don't remember you can find me on twitter with kings things see you next time.

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