to a road map with a constitution written and also approved by the people by the majority of the people we are about to start another phase which is electing the new president and elected by part of them and then. putting an end to the transitional period and go on and rebuilding the country so it needs time it's not a question of three years and you used the word legacy it is too early to talk about legacy it is a process on going process but in toto i believe that this is in paper of the future generations a revolution a firm stand against dictatorship it's interesting that you say that because your sound was cautiously optimistic assessment seems to be very different from the one that is often expressed by pro-democracy activists in edge of people like for example. who like many prominent figures and that uprising now finds

himself in jail and he just recently a road that quote everything collapsed and that january twenty fifth was exterminated that's what he wrote and he seems to be very passive mistake about the any prospect of positive democratic change coming to you egypt isn't it quite a dramatic reversal of fortunes that people like. like other pro-democracy after activist and now in detention at the same time while the man against whom this uprising was directed hosni mubarak is out of jail and under house arrest i see that you are sifting through some names you must have a. base of that name but that it will lucian has no leader and many of the revolution that is the young people the students there rest of the population. it is really. free and moving around and looking

forward to a period of stability as for those detainees i believe like you that the b.p. should be accelerated in order to put an end to this phase however the government is now considering to. move quickly to either to present them to the courts or to to free them so there is a process going on this point but i want you to bear in mind that there is a lot of violence against the society in universities and that's where this is and had a troubled era and that is why there are certain things certain exceptional circumstances exceptional decisions. that are being taken you said previously bad this revolution. historic process needs time and obviously you are very experienced

diplomats here say in a lot of things for all of your career and that may be one of the reasons why your exercise this very patient approach but i remember back in two thousand and eleven when i was talking to people in egypt later on in libya they had a very different time frame in mind it seemed that people back down seemed to believe that if only moammar core gaddafi had resigned life would have changed almost instantaneously and obviously that didn't happen whatever economic or social indicator we take life has gotten much more difficult for one day or a ordinary egyptians for ordinary libyans so do you think that was from the very beginning a case off and realistically high expectations or simply some of the arab societies not being ready or not being capable to seize that historic opportunity well that's a long question but that the gist of it is. but. can we

move forward yes indeed we are going to move forward but yet i can't say that to the revolutions have achieved their goals in changing the can i make situation to the better or the stability introducing stability but as you see we have started the first point the first thing to do to stab allies this any situation is to adopt a constitution and this constitution is a better good one i hope that you have read it so we are moving now with the old system relies in this situation in order for us to be able to tackle the economic problems of the social problems those those are only three years and this is egypt of thousands of years so a no we cannot sit and said all right what happened in the last one thousand days of course a lot of negative things have happened and a change in the system of change and better jeem that a president that has not succeeded that. his authority and when the people has been

eroding by the day because of that inefficient way that the government of former president morsi. has done and we are now trying to introduce good management and deal with the outcome be negative outcome of that last. last year now mr morsi you just mentioned saying i'm voting on this new constitution which is indeed very beautiful many experts believe that you mentioned also your efforts to bring law and order to egypt but unfortunately the realities of what is happening in your country are not so all bright not so aspirational people are still being killed in violent clashes in egypt and not only in egypt they're also being killed in libya they're also being killed in syria in much greater numbers of course what i would like to ask is why do you think the arab societies were so ready to resign. more to violence and why do they still rely on violence to settle

that political scores yeah that this is a major mistake they are committing it is not a question of. opposition had it been just opposition it was to peacefully diminish demonstrate and make them sit in on it would have been a good performance and even more effective opposition but using violence makes it necessary under government under the state to protect the interests of people of students driving it trying to study of people trying to go for one place to another this is a negative attitude of the muslim brotherhood and their supporters be to introduce the violence the violence creates breeds violence so this violence is again it's democracy is against ability is against basic rights of the people let me remind

you very in all humbleness that it wasn't the muslim brotherhood that initially resorted to violence i mean that was a charge against the former president hosni mubarak and some of the military authorities that he relied on back in two thousand and eleven that was one of the main reasons why he stepped down the using violence against the protesters so you cannot only point a finger at the muslim brotherhood it seems that violence in and of itself has become a default option for many political forces within the egyptian society to rely on and how if it's indeed has become such an attention pattern of using violence how can you how can you really move forward beyond. another long question and defense of one party it is in our interest as egyptians to bring old together we are not. preventing any group including the muslim brotherhood from getting under the aegis of the constitution the

of course of those who perpetrate violence could be. from their rank and file of the muslim brotherhood or any other group but the violence is a crime against the society whoever is the perpetrator the government has to be firm against those perpetrators of violence but to see that no there is still of course the country is in a deep stress and in a state of revolution and a lot of confrontations we are in a transitional period i agree that does certain things that have to be done or should have been done over shouldn't have been done but this is a situation in the country. a country and out of a settled revolution a country in a state of change a country in a state of transition so all those things could happen mr morsi you just mentioned

some of the challenges that face us right now a tumbling economy. clashes violent clashes rising unemployment do you think that would you agree rather that all those three tumultuous years that made live for ordinary egyptians so difficult so challenging did those serious make them appreciate the stability of mubarak's era a bit more all perhaps because of all those challenges that egyptians have experienced and the past three years maybe they have now become more sympathetic and become a positive view on what the previous or former egyptian president tried to do in all his thirty years of being in power look at the so many things happened with the past so many negatives and you can find also poll. attempts but now we are looking forward looking to the future when not getting back to what the better era old

whatever system or to dream of the twenty first century we are moving a cold into that holds of the game regionally and nationally at least ninety and internationally and we don't have to decide of course the out of the newspapers that are discussing issues like that but it is the the direction of the majority of the people that will get a new president will get a new government and will have to tackle the economic problems as soon as we can and i think once of the president is elected in the next. month or two months i believe things will start to settle and my head movement would be very straight how get mr mason we have to take a short break now but when we come back the events in egypt inspired similar protest moments and leave b. and syria but each new uprising brought an average increasing death toll was all that loss of life worth have well that's coming up in a few moments on while the part.

transit route to vnukovo rippled your best way to the heart of moscow.

economic down in the final on monday. night and the rest. will be every week on the. wealthy british sign it's time to rise. to. market why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy cars are reports. of so obviously one of the russian all through the continuation of the return they want to sell the american heart. submarines missiles all the rest of it to a new country new or new markets expanding markets because most of these countries of course who are previously on circuit equipment. rationale is still

a much more politico and. then certainly economic toboggan between europeans who wants to go with the united states remain committed to their security and the united states who want to see a gripping story no no we are all i could just i could jump in and ask you could if i could jump in and ask you i mean they want washington because they want the american taxpayer to pay for it because the united states pays the vast majority of the bill for nato so this is free riding that's what they want do you know that they don't want they're not the security of this is really an evolution they want someone else in times of austerity particularly now with the american taxpayer picking up the american defense industries would be more than happy to do it. welcome back to worlds apart from riyadh discussing the legacy of the arab spring with the former secretary general of the arab league amr moussa mr melissa before

returns ition to you are there countries affected by the arab spring let me ask you a question about the role of the military authorities in egypt right now. clearly they have reasserted themselves as the protector of egypt once again and i would argue that something like this would have been pretty unimaginable back in two thousand and eleven because baghdad that uprising was at least partially directed against the military rule as well doesn't. that represent to some extent that the trail of the ideals of that revolution the fact that military has once again came to the floor of the egyptian politics know after the doctrine of the constitution and the decision to organize the presidential elections within the timeframe stipulated by the constitution i believe that we

will be we will be moving towards the normal kind of energy and government and presidency so. you will certainly continue to perform its role as the as any of me would do to protect the sovereignty of the country as for the next elections the stage we are waiting for the decision of martial. sisi to you leave the army to resign and to run for elections. not as though he is not is not going to run as commander in chief are you going to run as a former officer in the army and will you run in accordance with the preconditions of stipulated in be constitution so we're not talking about the army governing we are talking about democracy but while we're also talking about the army intervening in the political affairs and let me ask you a hypothetical question. what if the next elections bring to power you know some political force that the army doesn't like will they have to intervene again isn't

a question that is it would be controversial that is all too would be clear you were elected to mr x. or mr y. and they are it is and have to be respected this is democracy and that people would respect to the result of democracy whoever is elected we will accept that is out of elections both elections will be organized within the framework often spared the city and the observers from abroad and from the population and from that egypt but will the winner of those elections allowed to serve full term about the army delivering any a judgment on whether he or she has been efficient enough to serve the country which it is the case that you've been making against president morsi that has led to show wasn't efficient enough even though he was never allowed to fail to serve until the end of his term i'm sorry to tell you that you are assuming things. perhaps occulting certain sources. trying to confuse the situation they'll.

presidential elections followed by parliamentary elections once the president is elected he is the president yes to the country according to the authorities stipulated for him as in the constitution but the parliament will follow will follow immediately it will have the legislative power so the army has nothing to do with either post neither president noted the parliament unless the opposite one officer or mode that have resigned in order to join the civilian life this is within no more than six months from last january there will be a constitution a president a parliament and a government approved by the the parliament not only appointed by the president but has to be approved by. the parliament this is a full democratic operation and that's what we are looking forward to and i want

you to know that and thank you for giving giving me the opportunity to explain that it is not a question about me as some with the newspapers continue to say. i want you to say election election election mr musser i would like to switch gears a little bit and to ask you not about your own country but rather about your neighbor libya reaches about to celebrate a fairer than a verse or with all of revolution on february seventeenth and you seem to believe quite strongly that egypt is moving in the right direction i wonder if you feel the same way about because three years down the line libya still lacks a democratically elected government it still lacks a constitution is still a place. called the shots also believe so so you believe that libya is moving towards democracy as well yes indeed they are moving this is as i told you this is a movement of change across the arab world and they this movement of change is not going to have a u. turn in order to get back to the ear of gadhafi or others no all countries

including libya is moving towards the future. however setbacks there are some slow pace in the changes that are but it is the right to own that i tracked and in the right direction but you know that the change could bear for better or for worse and i just wonder whether the change that we're seeing in libya or in syria indeed are indeed for better because just a couple of weeks ago five interruption diplomats were abducted fall within the egyptian embassy in tripoli in libya something like that could have never happened on the gadhafi regime so at least on some levels when it comes to a lawyer in order life under gadhafi was a far more predictable i wonder how can you talk about democracy when most political scores are being settled by militia who know. about ever we are talking

about constitution about promoting normal situation the era of gadhafi is finished now our friends and brothers in gibeah will have to rebuild their own life so how can they build their own life except in coordination with the rest of their neighbors and brotherly countries from to their east and west both countries egypt and tunisia has worked according to him up they brought the constitution first the presidential elections second the parliamentary elections third so both countries do the right and left a moving event that action i believe that d.b.l. with the same growth perhaps a tougher. more problems but in the end i am sure that all of those countries that are today in distress when they get back to the normal route as egypt and tunisia agree well you seem to be

a quite an optimist let me ask you something different in all these three countries that imagines a fart lou. syria you often hear claims that people's revolutions were hijacked either by extremists or by the outsiders and i guess there is some validity to that claim because a lot of outside players remain involved in the affairs of the arab world russia the united states turkey saudi arabia you name it to what extent in your view does the success of the arab spring depend on the people in the region on the arabs and to what extent it still depends on the big power brokers who are trying to pursue that own agenda well this is that is all to be the effects of the absence of egypt. egypt as the leader of the arab world had not been in the picture order in action for so many for though at least those three years plus

as as you say and you are right in saying so that the whole middle east is. subject to change and with the influence of foreign powers and i assure you that whatever the foreign powers decide. concerning the middle east will not be approved and will not be stabilized and will not stay unless the arab people accept and out of people approve and unless egypt is in and saying yes or saying no the influence of the outside powers is getting stronger now because of the absence of a major country like egypt but i assure you bay area will not be decided by iran by turkey or by russia or by america in europe in the absence of the real power in this region which is the arab world we are the majority of the population and egypt

is the biggest one mr will say you just mentioned the absence of the edge of the air on their political landscape i faced over the past three years a saw but there are at least two countries that whose presence in politics have has been increasing dramatically and i'm talking here about sag a saudi arabia and qatar both arab countries both have a very rigid and somewhat. backward looking political system and yet over the past three here is those countries have become much stronger much more assertive politically and i wonder since you we've talked so much about a positive democratic change a change for the better what are the chances of genuine democratic change in the region where these two. decidedly undemocratic regimes command so much power so much money and so much authority and when they talk about change change is not one

. system or one way the change in tunis and egypt has its own style change in yemen has another one in syria and libya unfortunately is taking a very negative way but it will improve anyway eventually it will improve in other arab countries the efforts to change it could be peaceful and they hope it will be peaceful so that this change or them saying is that change is a process that will take place across the board in the arab world and the middle east but change to the better looking to the future linking up with the twenty first century is a must there is no difference here between egypt or saudi arabia or qatar or emmett's or more vocal cords or listen listen we have only one minute left and let me clarify my question i wasn't asking you about the change with them saudi arabia or the change with them qatar i was asking you about efforts that both saudi arabia

and qatar have applied to change other countries to change syria you know better than i do that saudi arabia finances a lot of. insurgency let's call it that way insurgency activity in serious i would call it terrorism saudi arabia also has an interest in egypt saudi arabia also has an interest in libya and unfortunately they have a lot of money a lot of power to imply vision for those countries so they are not giving really the people of. their own choice there they're trying to implement. the they have a lot of money. well why do you see a lot of money as a misfortune this is a fortune and saudi arabia and its and other gulf countries infecting a lot of steps to help the arab world and the development of the investment and so

on so i don't see i don't share your view without their say unfortunately so you see it's out of saudi i see to enforce it this idea as i was listening to the help of the aid for the by saudi arabia to egypt he said the deposit but what about the house and the aid offered by saudi arabia to syria absent here i mean specifically financing of arms and you know training and or sending people to fight in syria do you do you feel good about as a lot of the land but ok look if you want to talk about syria when we're talking about the role of the united states about all over russia they are the iranian role and so on so i'm sorry if you want to open the file that's open it until they're old so bold those involved well that's ahead that's pro voyage an idea for another program mr most unfortunately this is all we have time for i finish a few active and tell our viewers if you like the show please join us again same place same time here on worlds apart.

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a pink or. more kids young kids choke on food than are killed by firearms if being armed made us safer in america we should be the safest nation on earth were clearly not the safest. cholesterol. depression in. the. world. and to prove your lies. are you see. more of those guests. on our. g twenty four team promise this week ultimate and exhilarating winter sports on our team a team you still need and use now a m a kevin zero in on the rest of our live take

news team for sochi twenty four take. on oxy. latest headlines in the week's top stories on our g international fans in sochi celebrate russia's shootout victory over slovakia in ice hockey after last night's disappointing loss to team usa. fracturing the web german chancellor on the marvel of proposes creating a european internet network that would shield user data from u.s. global surveillance flights. and you really feel that i'm in and out of you know. here's this. argy goes behind rebel lines in lebanon where jihad is to raise to kill other muslims at home and across the border in syria.