an end to the transitional period and go on and rebuilding the country so it needs time it's not a question of three years and you used the word legacy it is too early to talk about legacy it is a process on going process but in toto i believe that this is in paper of the future generations a revolution a firm stand against dictatorship it's interesting that you say that because your sound was cautiously optimistic assessment seems to be very different from the one that is often expressed by pro-democracy activists in edge of people like for example. who like many prominent figures and that uprising now finds himself in jail and he just recently a road that quote everything collapsed and that january twenty fifth was exterminated that's what he wrote them he seems to be very passive mystic about the

any prospect of positive democratic change coming to you egypt isn't it quite a dramatic reversal of fortunes that people like ask with my heart like other pro-democracy after activist and now in detention at the same time while the man against whom this uprising was directed hosni mubarak is out of jail and under house arrest i see that you are sifting through some names you must have a. base of that name but that it will lucian has no leader and many of the revolutionaries the young people the students there rest of the population is really. free and moving around and looking forward to a period of stability as for those detainees i believe like you that the b.p. should be accelerated in order to put an end to this they. is however the

government is now considering to. move quickly to either to present them to the courts or to to free them so there is a process going on this point but i want you to bear in mind that there is a lot of violence against the society in universities and that's where this is and it troubled era and that is why there are certain things certain exceptional circumstances exceptional decisions. that are being taken you said previously that the this revolution this historic process needs time and obviously you are a very experienced diplomat you've seen a lot of things throughout your career and that may be one of the reasons why your exercise this very patient approach but i remember back in two thousand and eleven when i was talking to people in egypt later on in libya they had

a very different time frame in mind it seemed that people back down seemed to believe that if only moammar core get off he had resigned life would have changed almost instantaneously and obviously that didn't happen whatever economic or social indicator we take life has gotten much more difficult for one day or a ordinary egyptians for ordinary libyans so do you think that was from the very beginning a case off and realistically high expectations or simply some of the arab societies not being ready or not being capable to seize that historic opportunity well that's a long question but the gist of it is that. sure of ourselves can we move forward yes indeed we are going to move forward with yet i can't say that to the revolutions have achieved their goals in changing the can i make situation to the better or disability introducing stability but as you see. we have started the

first point the first thing to do to stop belies this any situation is to adopt a constitution and this constitution is a better good one i hope that you have read it so we are moving now with the old system belies in this situation in order for us to be able to tackle the economic problems of the social problems those those are only three years and this is egypt of thousands of years so a no we cannot sit and sit all right what happened in the last one thousand days of course a lot of negative things have happened and a change in the system of change and better jeem that the president that has not succeeded that. his authority and when the people has been eroding by the day because of that in the fish and two way that the government of former president morsi. has done and we are now trying to introduce good management and

deal with the outcome be negative outcome of that last. last year now mr morsi you just mentioned saying i am voting on this new constitution which is indeed very beautiful many experts believe that you mentioned also your efforts to bring law and order to egypt but unfortunately the realities of what is happening in your country are not so all bright not so aspirational people are still being killed in violent clashes in egypt and not only in egypt they're also being killed in libya they're also being killed in syria in much greater numbers of course what i would like to ask is why do you think the arab societies were so ready to resort to violence and to why do they still rely on violence to settle that political scores yeah that this is a major mistake they are committing it is not a question of. opposition had it been just opposition was to peacefully didn't.

there most rape and then make them sit in. it would have been a good performance and even more effective opposition but using violence makes it necessary under government under the state to protect the interests of people of students that driving it trying to study of people trying to go for a one place to another this is a negative attitude of the muslim brotherhood and their supporters the do introduce the violence the violence creates breeds violence so this violence is again is democracy is against ability is against basic rights of the people let me remind you very in all humbleness that it wasn't the muslim brotherhood that initially resorted to violence i mean that was a charge against the former president hosni mubarak and some of the military authorities that he relied on back in two thousand and eleven that was one of the main reasons why he stepped down the using violence. the only point the finger at

the muslim brotherhood it seems that violence in and of itself has become a default option for many political forces within the egyptian society to rely on and how if it's indeed has become such an a trench pattern of using violence how can you how can you really move forward beyond. another long question and defense of one party it is in our interest as egyptians to bring old together we are not. preventing any group including the muslim brotherhood from getting under the aegis of the constitution the of course of those who perpetrate violence could be. from their rank and file of the muslim brotherhood or any other group but violence is a crime against the society whoever is the perpetrator the government has to be firm

against those perpetrators of violence but to see that no there is still violations of course the country is in a deep stress and in a state of revolution and a lot of confrontations we are in a transitional period i agree that there are certain things that have to be done both would have been done over shouldn't have been done but this is the situation in the country as a country and out of a state of evolution a country in a state of change a country in a state of transition so all those things could happen mr morsi you just mentioned some of the challenges that face us right now going economy. clashes violent clashes rising unemployment do you think that would you agree rather that all those three tumultuous years that made live for ordinary egyptians so difficult such

challenging did those serious make them appreciate the stability of mubarak's era a bit more all perhaps because of all those challenges that egyptians have experienced and the past three years maybe they have now become more sympathetic abit more positive view on what the previous or former egyptian president tried to do in all his thirty years of being in power look at the so many things happened in the past so many negatives and you can find also pay. as attempts but now we are looking forward looking to the future we're not getting back to what they got or iraq or old whatever system or to dream of the twenty first century we are moving into that holds all of the game regionally nationally at least in the me and internationally and we don't have to decide of course the out of the newspapers that are discussing issues like that but it is the the direction of the majority of

the people that will get a new president will get a new government and we'll have to tackle the economic problems as soon as we can once of the president is elected in the next. month or two months i believe things will start to settle and the movement would be very strict mr marson we have to take a short break now but when we come back the events in egypt inspired similar protests moments in libya and syria but each new uprising brought an average increasing death toll was all that loss of life worth while that's coming up in a few moments on while the part. is obviously more for the latest because it's paying. women wanted to avoid rate

they really need to buy guns and very happy that. this is the one that i want to go with but once again it's the fear. of women who are definitely a target of the gun lobby. killed when the killing not even if so many with this with her. and noticing more and more it's really scary mark tactics which implies that women have some sort of moral obligation to protect their family and young girls shoot out here too so we do have a pink or. more kids young kids choke on food than are killed by firearms if being armed made us safer in america we should be the safest nation on earth were clearly not the safest. right on the scene. the first trip. and i think the church.

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constitution and. that's because a free and open process is critical to our democracy albus. in fact the single biggest threat facing our nation today is the corporate takeover of our government and across a cynical we've been a hydrogen lying handful of transnational corporations that will profit by destroying what our founding fathers once told us about my job market and on this show we reveal the big picture of what's actually going on in the world we go beyond identifying the problem to try to fix rational debate in a real discussion of critical issues facing america have on the books ready to join the movement then welcome to the big picture. the g twenty four jean-paul muslim week ultimate and exhilarating winter in our

team a team join me and you so now i have to make seven zero in on the must of marlin cake news team for sochi twenty four take. on oxy. welcome back to worlds apart from riyadh discussing the legacy of the arab spring with the former secretary general of the arab lake mr melissa before returns ition to other countries affected by the arab spring let me ask you a question about the role of the military authorities in egypt right now. clearly they have reasserted themselves as the protector of egypt once again and i would argue that something like this would have been pretty unimaginable back in two thousand and eleven because back down that uprising was at least partially directed against the military rule as well doesn't. that represent to some extent that the trail of the ideals of that revolution the fact that the

military has once again came to the fore of the egyptian politics no after the doctrine of the constitution and the decision to organize the presidential elections within the timeframe stipulated by the constitution i believe that we will be we would be moving towards the normal kind of energy and government and presidency so. you will certainly continue to perform its role as the as any other would do to protect the sovereignty of the country as for the next elections the stated we are waiting for the decision. as sisi to do you leave me to resign and to run for elections. as that he is not is not going to run as commander in chief or you're going to run as a former officer in the army and will run in accordance with the preconditions of

stipulated in be constitution so we're not talking about the army governing we have doesn't about democracy go while we're also talking about the. the army intervening in the political affairs and let me ask you a hypothetical question what if the next elections bring to power you know some political force that the army doesn't like will they have to intervene again isn't a question that is it will be controversial that is either to be clear you were elected to mr x. or mr y. and they are it is and have to be respected this is democracy and the people who would respect to be a result of democracy whoever is elected we will accept that as of the elections both elections will be organized within the framework often spared the city and the observers from abroad and from the population and from that egypt but will the winner of those elections allowed to serve full term of about the army delivering

any of judgment on whether he or she has been efficient enough to serve the country which it is the case that you've been making against president morsi that has led to show wasn't efficient enough even though he was never allowed to fail to serve until the end of his term i'm sorry to tell you that you are assuming things. perhaps occulting certain sources. trying to confuse the situation they'll the presidential elections followed by parliamentary elections once the president is elected he is the president yes to the country according to the authorities stipulated for him as in the constitution but that the parliament will follow will follow immediately it will have the legislative power so the army has nothing to do with either post neither president nor the parliament unless the opposite one officer or more that have resigned in order to join the civilian life this is that

within no more than six months from last january there will be a constitution a president a parliament and a government approved by there will be. parliament not only appointed by the president but has to be approved by by the parliament this is a full democratic operation and that's what we are looking forward to and i want you to know that and thank you for giving giving me the opportunity to explain that it is not a question of bellamy as some with the newspapers continue to say. i want you to say election election election mr musser i like to switch gears a little bit and to ask you not about your own country but rather about your neighbor libya reaches about to celebrate the third anniversary of its all revolution on february seventeenth and you seem to believe quite strongly about egypt is moving in the ride to a direction i wonder if you feel the same way about the league because three years down the line libya still lacks a democratically elected government it still lacks

a constitution if still a place. called the shots also believe so so you believe that levy is moving towards democracy as well yes indeed they are moving this is as i told you this is a movement of change across the arab world and they this movement of change is not going to have a u. turn in order to get back to the era of gadhafi or others no old countries including libya is moving towards the future. however setbacks there are there are some slow pace in the changes that are but it is the right to own that i tracked and in the right direction but you know that change could bear for better or for worse and i just wonder whether the change that we're seeing in libya or in syria indeed are indeed for better because just a couple of weeks ago five gyptian diplomats were abducted fall within the egyptian embassy in tripoli in libya something like that could have never happened on the

gadhafi regime so at least on some levels when it comes to a lawyer in order life under gadhafi was far more predictable i wonder how can you talk about democracy while most political scores are being settled by militia who know. about ever we are talking about constitution about promoting normal situation that you know of qaddafi is finished now our friends and brothers and libya will have to rebuild their own life so how can they build their own life except in coordination with the rest of their neighbors and brotherly countries from to their east and west both countries egypt and tunisia has worked according to him up they brought the constitution first the presidential elections second the parliamentary elections third so both countries are doing the

right and left moving event that action i believe that d.b.l. with the same growth perhaps a tougher. more problems but in the end i am sure that all of those countries that are today in distress will get back to the normal road as egypt and tunisia ugly well you seem to be a quite an optimist let me ask you something different in all these three countries that imagines a far. syria you often hear claims that people's revolutions were hijacked either by extremists or by the outsiders and i guess there is some validity to that claim because a lot of outside players remain involved in the affairs of the arab world russia the united states turkey saudi arabia you name it to what extent in your view does the success of the arab spring depend on the people in the region on the arabs and

to what extent it still depends on the big power brokers who are trying to pursue that own agenda well this is that is all of the effects of the absence of egypt. egypt as the leader of the arab world had not been in the picture order in action for so many for the at least those three years plus as as you say and you are right in saying so that the whole middle east is. subject to change and with the influence of foreign powers and i assure you that whatever the foreign powers decide. concerning the middle east will not be approved and will not be stabilized and will not stay unless the arab people accept and out of people approve and unless egypt is in and saying yes or saying no

the influence of the outside powers is getting stronger now because of the absence of a major country like egypt but i assure you bay area will not be decided by iran or by turkey or by russia or by america in europe in the absence of the real power in this region which is the arab world we are the majority of the population and egypt is the biggest one mr will say you just mentioned the absence of age of the air on their political landscape i faced over the past three years a saw but there are at least two countries that whose presence in politics have has been increasing dramatically and i'm talking here about sadly a saudi arabia and qatar both arab countries both have a very rigid and somewhat. backward looking political system and yet over the past three here is those countries have become much stronger much more assertive

politically and i wonder since you have talked so much about a positive democratic change a change for the better what are the chances of genuine democratic change in the region where these two. decidedly undemocratic regimes command so much power so much money and so much authority and when they talk about change change is not one . system or one way the change in tunis and egypt has its own style guide change in yemen has another one in syria and libya and potion this taking a very negative way but it will improve anyway eventually it will improve in other arab countries the efforts to change it could be peaceful and they hope it will be peaceful so that this change what i'm saying is that change is a process that will take place across the board in the arab world and the middle east but change to the better look into the future linking up with the twenty first

century is a must that is no difference here between egypt or saudi arabia or qatar or emmett's or more vocal it's less and less of a i have only one minute left and let me clarify my question i wasn't asking you about the change with then saudi arabia or the change with them qatar i was asking you about efforts that both saudi arabia and qatar have applied to change other countries to change syria you know better than i do that saudi arabia finances a lot of. insurgency let's call it that way insurgency activity is in serious i would call it terrorism saudi arabia also has interest in egypt saudi arabia also has an interest in libya and unfortunately they have a lot of money a lot of power to employ a man die as vision for those countries so they are not giving really the people of . their own choice there they're trying to implement. the they have

a lot of money. well why do you see a lot of money as a misfortune this is a photo and saudi arabia and its and other gulf countries in fact digging a lot of steps to help the arab world and the development of the investment and so on so i don't see i don't share your view without their say unfortunately so you see the saudi i see this idea as i was on a tour of the help of the aid for the by saudi arabia to egypt he said in the polls that but what about the house and the aid offered by saudi arabia to syria and here i mean specifically financing all arms and you know training and or sending people to fight in syria do you do you feel good about as i don't think of the moment but ok look if you want to talk about syria well we'll talk about the role of the united states about all over russia. and so on so i'm sort of if you want to open

the file open it and talk about their own so bold those involved well that's ahead that's probably an idea for another program mr most unfortunate this is all we have time for i finish a few active and tell our viewers if you like the show please join us again same place same time here on worlds apart.

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tad but they are still its best location to. shoot out to the well as of the wall hi ted ted said you would stop this storm we might think you know my people will die.

the latest headlines on the week's top stories here are to international fans and saw to celebrate russia's shootout victory over slovakia in the men's ice hockey a day after a disappointing loss against arch rivals team usa. the euro net so infuriated by n.s.a. spying german chancellor angela merkel proposes a plan for a european online network to shut out america's snoopers plus. in your interview for the world. we. are t. goes behind rebel lines in lebanon where jihadists are raised to kill other muslims at home and across the border in syria.